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Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 8 Nov 1946

Vol. 103 No. 4

Private Deputies' Business. - Turf Bogs: Valuation Increases—Motion.

I move:—

That the Dáil is of opinion that the valuation of any land, turf bog or turf bank should not be increased by the operation of emergency legislation; and more specifically by reason of the taking or purchase of turf therefrom by or for disposal through local authorities, or through schemes intended to provide fuel during the emergency contemplated by the Emergency Powers Act, 1939; and that proposals for any necessary legislation should be introduced forthwith by the Government.

This is a matter which was raised at the end of last year and the disparities and the injustices which are being suffered by a very small number of people in the country have been continued ever since. The motion asks that any necessary legislation should be introduced forthwith by the Government to redress the situation. Whether legislation is necessary or not, I do not know. But the matter to which I am calling attention and for which I am asking redress is that a small number of people in North Tipperary, as distinct and apart from any other people, I might say, in the country, except some in County Monaghan, have had their valuations increased and are being asked to pay additional sums by way of rates, because either they had had their bogs rented by the local authority for turf cutting or because they sold turf off their bogs during the emergency. If there is a law and that law is being operated in a partial, inequitable, unjust and unexpected way, then that is a matter of which Parliament should take cognisance.

I raised this matter before, but the Minister for Finance thought I was simply trifling with it and could not see why I had taken up the case at all.

The Minister for Local Government on another occasion also scoffed the case that we were making out of the House. The position is that in 1941 emergency powers were given to local authorities either to rent bogs and carry on turf-cutting operations by their own organisations or to buy turf from local people. At that time an urgent appeal went out from the Government that, where turf was available, it should be cut in order to provide the country with fuel during the emergency.

A large number of counties threw themselves into that campaign and a large number of local bodies took the situation in hand and either rented bogs or induced people to cut turf for them and acted as the machinery for selling that turf through Fuel Importers, Limited. Amongst these counties were Galway, Roscommon, Clare, Limerick, Kerry, Cork, Waterford, South Tipperary, Meath and Laoighis. That is one particular set of counties. These were counties that produced substantial quantities of turf. In no single case between 1941 and 1946 did whatever law is there operate in any way to raise the valuation on anybody who either was renting a bog to a county council or was cutting and selling turf either to the county council or anybody else. Then another group of counties—Sligo, Mayo, Longford, Westmeath and Cavan—appeared to be in practically the same position as the first group I mentioned, with a very small dot of a difference. Then you have Donegal and Wicklow and then you have North Tipperary and Monaghan. There are four groups of counties.

Let us take the first group. It is not easy to give exact figures as to the amount of turf produced in these counties or the amount of profit made by any persons owning bogs, either by renting them or working them themselves and selling the turf. But figures are available giving the approximate quantities of turf supplied by the local authorities to Fuel Importers, Limited. During the years from 1941 to 1945—the figures for the 1945 season's crop being just provisional—we find that that part of the production of turf in Galway that was disposed of by being sold to the Fuel Importers, Limited, by the local authority amounted to 218,000 tons; Clare, 66,000 tons; Kerry, 159,000 tons; Cork, 31,000 tons; Roscommon, 125,000 tons. Limerick, in the matter of turf production, is scarcely worth talking about, and we can ignore Waterford and South Tipperary, because the figures are not available. Those figures will give an impression of the position that those counties occupied in the provision of turf. These are much greater than the quantities provided by other bodies. In none of these counties was the valuation increased on anybody as a result of the cutting of turf.

In the second group we have Sligo, Mayo, Longford, Westmeath and Cavan. Sligo, during the period, provided, through the local authorities for Fuel Importers, Limited, 21,000 tons; Mayo, 286,000 tons. The amounts provided from Longford, Westmeath and Cavan were infinitesimal. In County Mayo in 1941, the first year of the operation of this scheme, one person had his valuation increased. No other person in Mayo, during the whole of that period, had his valuation increased as a result of turf operations. In Sligo, in the year 1944, one person had his valuation increased because of turf operations. In Longford, in 1941, one person had his valuation increased, and in Westmeath, in 1946, one person had his valuation increased.

Now we come to Donegal and Wicklow. In Donegal, in the year 1942, four people had their valuations increased, and, in the year 1943, two more people there had their valuations increased. In Wicklow, in the year 1944, eight persons had their valuations increased, and in the year 1946 two more persons in Wicklow had their valuations increased. That is the third group.

Now we come to North Tipperary and Monaghan. North Tipperary, to the extent of 45,000 tons, figures in the list of counties where turf was sold by local authorities to Fuel Importers, Limited. In North Tipperary, in the year 1945, 40 persons had their valuations increased by reason of turf operations and, in 1946, ten other valuations there were increased. In Monaghan, in 1944, 26 persons had their valuations increased; in 1945 four more persons had their valuations increased, and in 1946 there were three others whose valuations were increased. There were 50 people in North Tipperary and 33 people in Monaghan and an odd person here and there in Sligo and Mayo who had their valuations increased at a time when, throughout the country, as a matter of emergency, an extraordinary production of turf took place.

If the law is there by which, according to the Minister's statement to me on the 12th September, 1945, "we are entitled to see that these people who have been drawing such sums should bear their equitable portion of rates"—if people who, according to the Minister, have been getting substantial royalties out of turf operations are liable, under the law, to pay rates, and if we find the law operating in such an inequitable way as to be absolutely unjust and outrageous, then we ought to know something about that law. The fact is that something, from the year 1852, like the measles that Deputy Dillon spoke about, has hit a small number of people in a concentrated way in North Tipperary and has passed, unscathing, over the people in South Tipperary. It is called law and we want to know what that law is. I say that whatever it is, it is unjust, inequitable and partial and it has been operated against a small number of persons. The situation should be redressed and the only way in which that situation can be redressed to-day is by seeing that the people who have been struck by this law and damaged by it will be compensated and will have their payments made good.

The Minister for Local Government speaks of some people who got £2,000 from the local authorities or from other people for turf and they were charged only an extra £100 in rates. I think it is very wrong, when there is such an obvious case of injustice operating in the country, that anything would be dragged across the discussion of this matter to distort the situation. I want to concentrate on North and South Tipperary.

In an answer given to me on the 10th October, 1945, it was shown that the expenditure by the North Tipperary County Council for the period ended on the 31st March in the years 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944 and 1945, was £268,000 and, in the case of South Tipperary, the expenditure on the same work was £122,800. The expenditure in North Tipperary may be double what it was in South Tipperary, but it is obvious that turf operations were proceeding in South Tipperary just as effectively, if not in as great a volume, as in North Tipperary.

The Minister has indicated that, under the law, the ratepayers of County Tipperary or any other county have the right to move, through their officials, to get a bog, which had not been worked, revalued when it became a valuable property. I want to know in relation to the law who are the "ratepayers" in these circumstances? Does it refer to individuals paying rates to the elected representatives of the county or to the county manager? I want to know what has operated in the County Tipperary to bring about a position in which 50 persons in the north have had their valuations increased—in some cases, by the action of the county manager—whereas no action has been taken in South Tipperary. In County Tipperary alone, there is a case requiring explanation of the law. Why has the law operated so peculiarly and through whose action has it operated so peculiarly? If it has operated through the action of the county manager and if it is as a result of his action that the valuations of people in North Tipperary have been increased because of payments made in a particular year, did the county manager operate to get these valuations reduced when he was not paying so much in subsequent years as he was in the earlier years?

Has the Deputy the figures by which the valuations were reduced? They amount to about one-third of the increases. Those figures are contained in the answer given on the 6th of this month.

The Minister has not related any reductions that have taken place to the increases. Whether or not reductions have taken place in any of the North Tipperary cases, the question of the difference between North Tipperary and South Tipperary and the other areas arises. I want to know whether the county manager operates in the same way in relation to reductions as he does in relation to increases. The partiality which reveals itself as between North Tipperary and South Tipperary and the big list of counties I have given where nothing at all has happened is all the more unjust when we consider what has happened in some of these cases.

Here is the case of a bog given over in 1941 as the result of an advertisement: "They cut it for three years and left it unprofitable for cutting any more. My old valuation was £16 and my new valuation is £25, with no deduction for agricultural land. They left the bog in the most dangerous way with holes. Some of the banks were let slip in and can never be cut again. It seems they want us to pay for all this squandering of money." He means that they want them to pay for damage actually done to their places. In another case, where a bog was taken over compulsorily, the position is set out as follows: "Before the county council cut turf in 1941, I could take 40 grazing cattle on the mountain at £2 per head. Since the council came in on the bog, I cannot take any cattle on it. There are too many trenches open and it would be dangerous to cattle. If they were there, they would be destroying any turf which was there. I had to clear them away entirely as I had nothing for them to feed on." He claims that, for grazing alone, he could have got £80 a year without any increase in his valuation. In this case, the amounts paid by the local authority were—1941, £78; 1942, £116; 1943, £8; 1944, £28. On the average, he received £57 a year. He could have had £80 a year if his grazing rights had been undisturbed. He was told by the county manager that, besides these payments, the county manager expected that he received rents from private turf-makers.

In relation to the past, I want to know whether the increases in valuation have been made solely on the strength of rents paid by the county council to the people concerned or whether the increased valuations are based upon the sale of turf in any other way or the renting of bogs to any other persons than the county council. What procedure operated to get those valuations raised? I understand that, under Section 10 of the Valuation (Ireland) Act, 1852, the commissioners have power to enter upon any land for the purpose of examining it and seeing to what extent the valuation should be raised. If the commissioners entered on the lands, what type of examination has been carried out in cases where the valuation has been raised for reasons other than payment of rent by the local authority and what technique is adopted for assessing the increase in valuation? The law has operated in an astounding way because, in large areas where there was substantial turf production, the matter has been allowed to go by default— in circumstances in which we would have agreed to that.

If the Emergency Powers Order issued in 1941 or the general Orders issued controlling the turf situation had stated that the valuation of no property would be increased during the emergency in respect of any operations carried out for the purpose of providing fuel for the country, everybody would have considered that reasonable and equitable. In practice, that has been the position over the whole country, with the exception of 50 persons in North Tipperary, 33 persons in Monaghan, six persons in Donegal, ten persons in Wicklow, one person each in Sligo and Mayo, two persons in Longford and one in Westmeath. In these cases, entirely new valuations have been made. In the case of one person in Monaghan, two persons in Cavan and one in Westmeath, the valuation of turbary, which was already valued, has been increased. Surely those figures show that over the country as a whole, the Valuation Act of 1852, in this matter of turf, has operated as if the emergency Order and other Orders issued during that period contained a clause that there would be no increase in valuation as a result of turf operations except for these people. My object in moving this motion is to show that something unjust and inequitable has been done to these people, which should be redressed, and that in so far as operations were carried out for cutting turf or affording facilities for turf-cutting during the emergency period, nobody should have his valuation raised or should be expected to pay increased rates which his neighbours and his fellow-citizens in every county in the country have in actual fact escaped because the law has been completely unoperated, if it is a law, and we have yet to have it proved to us in this House that it is a law.

I formally second the motion.

I wish to support this motion. I want to protest on behalf of the tenants in Mayo at the latest demand for returns of turf produced during the years 1944-45-46. The people in County Mayo, a mountainy district, were not anxious to have their bogs cut, but the emergency was such that turf production was necessary. The county engineer visited the various turf areas and asked bog owners voluntarily to offer turf banks. I do not think the response was very good. However, some people did respond and did volunteer to give turf banks, but at least 80 per cent. of the turf banks that were taken over were more or less acquired compulsorily. The rent received in respect of them was on a very small scale. The rent that would have been received for that particular land for grazing purposes would certainly have been equal to the rent received for the turf banks. Prior to the scheme of turf production, that land was more valuable to the owners. It was a matter of necessity during the emergency that turf should be produced and therefore the Department should not take advantage of the position to increase the valuation of that land, as they would appear to have in mind in asking for returns of income for those three years. In certain cases bogs were opened up and were found to be unsuitable, and the banks were left partly opened. Other bogs were opened up where good turf was produced but there was certainly abuse of some bogs. When the emergency is over, and I suppose it will be over some time, turf may not be necessary and County Mayo, being a long distance from the cities and big towns, may be one of the first counties to lose any benefits to be derived from turf. It is for that reason that, on behalf of the people of County Mayo, I protest against this new demand. It is a demand that should not be made of any farming community of any bog area in Éire. The people living in bog areas have to rear their families and it is the very least that might be expected that there should be no levy in respect of any little benefits that they received during the war and they should not be asked to repay what they got during the emergency. I strongly appeal to the Minister not to have new increased rates of valuation applied to the bog areas.

It seems to me that, if this motion were adopted, it would cut across the principle of the whole valuation law. It may be good or bad and it certainly is slow in its operation, but I think that, without a very elaborate and complicated system, you would find it very hard to get a more equitable law on which to base the rates. We are asked in this motion to agree:

"That the valuation of any land, turf bog or turf bank should not be increased by the operation of emergency legislation; and more specifically by reason of the taking or purchase of turf therefrom by or for disposal through local authorities, or through schemes intended to provide fuel during the emergency contemplated by the Emergency Powers Act, 1939; and that proposals for any necessary legislation should be introduced forthwith by the Government."

In other words, we are asked to take the people who supplied turf—alone among all the other people who helped during the emergency—and not ask them to pay their proper share if, by reason thereof, the value of their holdings has increased.

If we take that section alone and exempt them, we cannot make a case for refusing other sections who will claim exemption. These people are only being asked to suffer what everybody else has had to suffer in regard to things other than agricultural land. If the value of their premises is improved, they have to put up with an increased valuation and if the value of their premises deteriorates they have the right every year to appeal to have the valuation decreased accordingly.

Not on land.

On bogs, yes. We are talking about bogs.

The Minister has to demonstrate that law to us yet.

I am referring to the law as it exists.

The Minister can tell us about that when making his speech.

The Deputy should not prevent him from speaking.

The Deputy should be brought into it. There are a few cases affected in his constituency.

I did not hear anything about them.

I am not surprised at that.

The complaint in this motion really is that the law has operated in Tipperary and has not operated in other parts. But valuation law operates slowly and in the course of time it will operate all over the country. The proposal is that these people should be refunded the rates which they had to pay as a result of their increased valuation. If we are going to adopt that attitude, just because one part of the country moves a bit more quickly than another, I do not know how we will collect the rates at all. This means you would pick out one section of the people for exceptional beneficial treatment. I think it would be unfair to the community in general and I see no reason whatever for it, unless we are going to upset the whole basis of valuation.

It is quite obvious that Deputy Colley does not understand the motion and was not listening or following Deputy Mulcahy very closely. Deputy Colley says we are asked to pick out one section of the people for exceptional beneficial treatment. Does he consider this one case exceptional beneficial treatment? This man's rates on his holding, before the county council went in on his miserable big of bog, were 13/- per year. His demand last year was for £39 12s. 0d. The Deputy is assuming that the increased demand is based necessarily on the improvement to holdings. Not at all. We can prove beyond yea or nay that county council activities in many cases have destroyed holdings to a large extent.

I will give the House one case of a farm of which I have personal knowledge. The county council went in on this farm. There were three acres of a callow running right along the bank of the river and it was the man's principal place of approach to running water for his stock. That man's three acres, which for certain periods of the year would carry and feed stock, was entered on by the county council, who cut through it by means of trenches in many places. They left seven pits, which were death traps for live stock and destroyed for ever that callow and the use of it to the water for the owner of the land. Within three months of the county council leaving that field—and leaving it for ever, as they would never cut on it again—that man lost one of his working horses, valued £35, which slipped in and was unable to get out. The unfortunate man had no claim in law against the county council and was unable to recover even one shilling. That is one case of which I have personal knowledge.

The Deputy said in his opening remarks that, if this motion were adopted, it would cut across the whole field of valuation law. Not at all. It is the action of the county managers, supported by the Minister, that is cutting across the whole valuation code.

The Minister has no function in it, except to carry out the law.

This is not a function.

The county councils have to move.

The county council has not made any move. It is the county manager and the Minister.

The Deputy should bring his complaint to the county council, if he has one, and I think he will be fired out by the rest of the ratepayers of Tipperary.

The Minister is quite wrong. This matter was brought before the county council and the action taken by the county manager and the Minister was condemned unanimously by every member of the county council. Does the Minister contend that, when the county council have left the bogs and have ceased to take any turf from them, having in most cases injured rather than improved the man's property, this enormously increased rate may be levied? I have quoted one case already and can give the Minister the man's letter, with his name and address; and I have the copies of the rates demands with me, showing the increase from 13/- to £39 12s.

The Minister has to satisfy this House on two or three very definite points. Firstly, he has to quote the legal authority to increase the rate. On whose instructions were the rates increased and who made the valuation of the bogs and determined the amount by which they were to be increased? The Minister will also quote for us, I hope, the authority under which the manager may reduce the amount added to the valuation. I would like to know. Deputy Colley's explanation is not an explanation. He says the valuation law moves very slowly. That is not the experience of anyone who attempts to improve a house. He will find the valuation people on him very quickly—and the Deputy ought to know that from his experience in Dublin. The Deputy says they can only move county by county. I do not think the Income-tax Commissioners move county by county, or are anyway slow either.

Would the Deputy ask himself this question: Why should North Tipperary, which produced through its county council about one-fifth, if even one-fifth, of the quantity of turf produced in counties like Galway and Mayo—be subjected to this increase? Why should more people be penalised by having their valuations increased in North Tipperary, in half of one county, than in the rest of the State put together? If there is a law, if there is legal authority for this, why is it not fairly, justly and impartially administered? If we make laws here or if we have adopted the adapted laws that were made elsewhere, we did not adapt or adopt them for any particular part of the country or any one section of the community. They were made for the nation as a whole and every citizen of the State is entitled to have the law administered towards him fairly and impartially. I move the adjournment of the debate.

Debate adjourned.
The Dáil adjourned at 2 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 13th November, 1946.
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