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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 May 1947

Vol. 105 No. 18

Committee on Finance. - Resolution No. 11—General (Resumed).

Question again proposed:—
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.—(Minister for Finance.)

This Government will go down in history for a number of records. It will go down in history, first, for its capacity to impose, in the most reckless fashion, oppressive burdens of taxation and, secondly, for its all-time record of an unbroken spiral of taxation over a period of 16 years. That is the record of a Party which got into power on the promise that taxation must be reduced by £2,000,000, that the country was being run on an Empire scale and could not afford the taxation then existing. If they were in opposition to-day, I wonder what they would describe the present level of taxation as. I suggest that the third record of this spendthrift Government is its capacity recklessly to squander public money on any and every sort of non-productive scheme, and, lastly and above all, its crowning achievement is that it has dealt some of the best and most flourishing branches of Irish agriculture a fatal blow.

The most alarming feature of this immense and staggering bill, this unprecedented burden, is the rising curve of taxation and the particularly steep rise anticipated for this financial year, on the one side, and falling production, on the other. In the last analysis, we all live out of the pool of production, and it is from that pool that the Minister now proposes to rake £69,356,000. If we add to that a sum of £4,000,000 for Supplementary Estimates during the year and £9,000,000 for local services, we get a sum of over £82,000,000, and that is grabbed by the Minister for Finance for administrative purposes out of the incomes of the community. It is paid for, I suggest, and must be found, by the people engaged in real production, because that is where our wealth comes from, and the number of people engaged in real production, according to the census, is 800,000. There are 1,250,000 people engaged in profitable employment and only 800,000 engaged in real production, and it is out of their work that we have to find £82,000,000, over £100 per individual engaged in real production.

The outstanding feature of the Budget is that there is not in it a single constructive idea for development and expansion, although the Minister referred to the desirability of expansion and gave a little bit of advice to workers and workers' organisations. There is no scheme or plan designed for the development and expansion of our main industry. This Government knows how to impose and collect taxation. It has a record second to none in the world in that respect, but it knows nothing about the organisation and running of the nation's business efficiently and effectively. I always felt that one could not get an original, constructive idea from any Minister in this Government, but there is one idea in the Budget which is certainly not constructive but is surely original—the peat moss scheme. This Budget will be known as the glasshouse and peat moss Budget. That is the plan we have now for the development and expansion of Irish agriculture. However, more of that later.

The position, as given by the Minister in his statement, is that £69,356,000 is the amount he plans to spend in the coming year, and I submit that there must be added to that £4,000,000 for Supplementary Estimates and £9,000,000 for local authorities, making a sum of £82,000,000. The State debt was given by the Minister as £100,800,000 and the local authorities' debt as £37,000,000. I might add to that that, since 1939, the gross liabilities of this State have been increased by £22,336,000, and, as against that, there are total assets of £5,318,000, so that the net liabilities since that period have been increased by £17,015,000. The liability for housing over that period has increased by £2,000,000. The gross liability for housing to date is about £9,500,000. The net liability of the State is over £50,000,000.

It would be interesting to know from what sources the Minister proposes to collect the big sums he has mentioned. Contrary to the usual practice, he gave us no details in that connection. He proposes to raise from taxation £52,416,000. Of that, customs represent £19,960,000 — practically £20,000,000. Although taxation as a whole contributes substantially to the cost of living, this imposition of £20,000,000 on essential imports has very evil effects not merely on the cost of living but on industry and agriculture. When Fianna Fáil came into this House in 1927, the cost of administration was £21,000,000. From ad valorem import duties in the present year, the Minister hopes to collect £20,000,000. He told us yesterday that he was increasing the duty on cigarettes by 3d. per packet and on tobacco by 3d. per ounce. The amount of tax collected on tobacco in the last financial year was over £11,000,000. Add a sum of about £3,000,000, which the Minister hopes to collect in the present year, and we get a total of £14,000,000. The people who smoke are to subscribe £14,000,000 to the cost of administration of the country.

The Minister made perfectly clear yesterday that this imposition of 3d. is not made for the purpose of reducing our purchases of Virginian tobacco. It is not intended to save dollars. The Minister had no worries about the dollar position. The price of cigarettes has been increased from 1/5 to 1/8 for revenue purposes. There are many people who have very few luxuries. Smoking is one of the luxuries on which these people place great value. Those with low incomes, struggling with a high cost of living, will find that this imposition will bear heavily upon them. The Minister may say that tobacco is a luxury commodity and that people can live very well without it. The Minister might have been able to make a case if he had sought to reduce consumption to save dollars. But that was not the Minister's case. He made clear that he was imposing this tax because of the increased expenditure here and in order to bridge the gap between income and expenditure. He hopes to obtain this year £2,605,000 from tobacco and £260,000 from entertainment tax. He expects to get from excise duty over £10,000,000, from motor vehicles duties £1,500,000, from estate duties £2,000,000, from stamps £1,180,000 and from income-tax £12,981,000. In that connection, he announced increases in the personal allowances from £120 to £140 for single persons and from £220 to £260 for married persons. He suggested that, because of that increase, 27,000 individuals would be freed from the payment of income-tax. I submit that that is not correct. Because of recent increases in wages and salaries, substantially more than 27,000 persons have been brought into the Minister's net. This easement will not release from the payment of income-tax the number of people who should be released. Taking the value of the £1 at 50 per cent. less than it was, if the Minister wants the people to maintain pre-war standards, the personal allowances ought to be doubled. This small addition does not do justice to these people. Many people who are rearing families on small incomes are called upon to contribute taxation. The real incomes of the majority of the people are considerably lower than they were prior to 1939. Many of these people will be called upon to pay income-tax. It is obvious that that will be so. With the tremendous increase in taxation, the Minister must tap sources other than those which were being tapped prior to 1939.

The contemplated increase in taxation for the current year of £5,374,000 is a new record for the Fianna Fáil Government. For 16 years, without exception, they have maintained this spiral.

In this particular year, the public ought to know that the Minister proposes to take in taxation, over and above what was collected last year, £5,374,000. That is being done after an increase last year of £3,402,000 and of £4,225,000 the year before that. A new record for this year is being created over 16 years. The net increase this year is nearly £5,500,000. What effect will that have on the economy and the cost of living here? Is it not obvious? We listened to Deputies on all sides of the House talking about the cost of living. Is not the main contributory factor in the cost of living the huge sum of money taken out of the pockets of the people and used, not for constructive purposes, not to ensure a development and expansion in agriculture, but to be squandered in a reckless way on a great many schemes that are of little benefit to the community and certainly no real benefit from the economic point of view?

The Minister's predecessor, in his last Budget statement, expressed certain views on this matter. He said it would be the responsibility of the Minister for Finance to see that taxation would be reduced at the earliest possible moment and he felt the time had now come—that is, two years ago—to plan for a reduction, to relieve industry of its heavy burdens of taxation and to relieve the community generally, since those burdens were passed on. The working man pays as much, not merely directly but indirectly, in taxation as every other citizen in the community, since the people engaged in industry and trade in a big way are in a position to pass on those tax impositions, to a very large extent. Evidently, the Minister paid little attention to the views expressed by his predecessor. There appears to be no intention on the part of the Minister or the Government to make any attempt whatever to economise. The Minister, in his two Budget addresses to this House, has made no reference to any attempt to effect economies. He does not appear to be concerned about its reactions and repercussions on our economic life and the effect it inevitably has on the cost of living, on the health of the community generally and on the emigration of our people.

Finance Ministers in every other country are making reductions in the burden of taxation and we are almost the sole exception. Canada recently was in a position to effect a substantial reduction in its tax burdens. That country was engaged in the war and had very substantial financial commitments in that respect. One would have expected that a country like this, which was in no way involved in those heavy financial commitments other countries had to bear, would be the first country to lead the world in reducing the burden of taxation. There was a White Paper recently published by the Netherlands Government, showing a complete plan for the reorganisation and rehabilitation of its industry and its agriculture. It sets out clearly what their plans are. They have a target for each industry: they expect to have their heavy industries, iron and steel, fully developed back to pre-war standards in a year or so; they set out for agriculture a couple of years; and for housing they have a definite target over a period of years. As a matter of fact, they are so anxious—and this is the point I want to stress—to ensure that the majority of the people of the Netherlands will be engaged in productive work, that they are taking a number of their civil servants out of their Departments and putting them into industry.

Because of the huge sum that must be spent here and administered here, obviously we require a very big Civil Service, and we have an immense Civil Service in proportion to our population. That is a further burden on the community. The proportion of the community engaged in real productive work is very small in relation to the community as a whole. In page 13 of the Budget statement, the Minister referred to that very useful and interesting White Paper published last year on National Income and Expenditure. He regrets that the official estimates of national income, in continuation of the figures for 1938-44, are not yet available. I think we can all regret that the figures are not available. The Minister continues:—

"I can, however, give some indication of the trend in output in the past year. Gross agricultural output was valued at £105,000,000 in 1945; the provisional estimate for 1946 is £104.3 million. As there was an average increase of 3 per cent. in agricultural prices between 1945 and 1946, the decline in the value of gross output confirms the presumption that last year's bad weather caused a fall in the volume of agricultural output."

Taking the increase of 3 per cent. in prices for 1945-46 and expressing the output in 1945 values, our output last year fell by £4,000,000.

If we take up the paper on national income, we see there is a downward trend in agricultural production. The Government have made no attempt whatever to stem that downward trend. They are not interested in trying to stop the rot and they have no plans to reorganise our main industry. The only plans they have and the only things they are interested in are the imposing of high burdens of taxation, to provide non-essential services. That is what has alarmed me all the time —the neglect of the main industry. We spend £5,200,000 on defence. I think that at least £3,000,000 of that money is waste, pure and simple. I admit that an Army is necessary to ensure internal control and internal peace and harmony, but so far as defence is concerned, I believe an Army of half the personnel would be just as effective and that it is utter waste of money to spend £5,200,000 on defence. In the same way, I am not yet convinced that the spending this year of over £2,000,000 on air services and airports will be of any real benefit to the country. We are spending money on schemes of that sort—cosmic physics and other fads— that are of no benefit to the community, and that do not hold out any hope of giving a return to the people who have to foot the bill. That is how the money is being squandered.

The Minister is not interested in economising. He is certainly not interested in providing a plan to expand agriculture. Agricultural output is falling. It was falling all through the emergency, and all through the period when food and the price for it was at a premium. In comparison with the British, our output has fallen by 10 per cent. The British have expanded theirs by 70 per cent. The Minister for Industry and Commerce recently stressed the vital importance of our export trade. He went so far as to say that we either had to export or perish.

What is our export position? In the case of live stock we were exporting, 16 or 17 years ago, over 800,000 animals a year. To-day that figure has fallen to less than 450,000 animals. There has been a drop there of practically 50 per cent. At one time we were exporting over £3,000,000 worth of butter and now we are not producing sufficient to meet our own requirements. The best that we are able to do is to give the people a ration of 2 ozs. per head per week. In the case of bacon, we were exporting, at one time, 500,000 cwts., and 500,000 live pigs. Even before the war, our exports of bacon and pigs had fallen. To-day the best we are able to do is to provide 50 per cent. of our own requirements. Sixteen years ago we were exporting £3,000,000 worth of eggs. To-day the quantity we are exporting is negligible. The position to-day is that, in this city, we are not producing enough to meet the requirements of the people in butter, bacon, eggs and milk. The citizens are not able to get sufficient milk for young children. No matter what they are prepared to pay for milk, the milk is not there because output has fallen to such a low level.

This Government have concentrated on two schemes and both of them, to a great extent, have been failures. They have concentrated on wheat so far as agriculture is concerned, and they have concentrated on turf production. The country is experiencing the measure of success that has been achieved by the responsible Ministers in both cases. Last year we did not produce 50 per cent. of our requirements in wheat. So far as wheat production is concerned, in my opinion the country was unorganised. The soil conditions under which people are expected to produce wheat are unfavourable and unsuitable, and no attempt is made to adjust those conditions so that some expectation of a favourable crop might be there for the people who have to produce the commodity. In connection with all that, some of the most essential branches of Irish agriculture were grossly neglected, with the result that we have a depressed output all round.

There is a provision in this Budget of £1,250,000 to increase the subsidy for butter. There is a subsidy there already of £950,000. Therefore, practically £2,250,000 is to be provided this year by way of a butter subsidy. That is an industry that has been grossly neglected. The fact is that while subsidies must be paid, if you pay the subsidy and ignore the conditions that are there you merely help to crystallise the status quo. That is what the Minister for Agriculture has been doing for a number of years. There has been a decline in production and a falling off in milk yields. It will take many years of patient effort and of close attention to reorganise that industry and make it efficient. There is no plan for agriculture, and there is no attempt to provide a plan for the expansion that the Minister for Finance referred to, and hoped for, yesterday. It is not enough for the Minister merely to express the wish that an expansion is going to take place. It will take a tremendous effort and a tremendous organisation with an intelligent plan to get back to the position which we enjoyed here 15 or 16 years ago.

The fact is that our agricultural production, during the 16 years that the Fianna Fáil Party has been in office, has never reached the output that was there in 1929. The statistics reveal that. We should also remember that during that period agricultural science and knowledge have made tremendous progress. The scientific knowledge available in the world to-day for the production of food is far greater than it was in 1929. During those years there has been a terrific development in, for example, soil science. That development has taken place during the last 16 years, but no attempt has been made here to disseminate that essential knowledge if we are to expand production. Such an attempt has been completely absent.

In connection with the Government's projected plan to try to encourage into the national butter pool privately-produced butter, I am amazed that any Government should suggest that all the butter that is produced privately in the country should be sent into a factory to be processed. When one visits the Show one sees the interest that is taken in the butter-making classes that are conducted there. There is evidence there of the desire to encourage young girls to become expert butter makers. But when they qualify as expert butter makers and return to their own farms the Government tell them that when they produce butter—and they are able to produce a far better quality of butter than the creameries—they are going to take it from them and send it to a factory in Cork to be processed.

That is under the Department of Agriculture?

The Deputy, I think, had that out with the Minister.

It is one of the mad, unintelligent schemes that we are suffering from at the present time. That certainly will not improve or increase output.

Reference has been made to emigration. Is it any wonder that under those conditions 190,000 people would leave this country to seek a living else-where? It was inevitable that the conditions that have been created under this Government would drive our people out of the country. Even in the Budget speech the Minister boasted about our social services and told us that social services will cost £12.5 million. He said:—

"The fact that we spend £12.5 million or 18 per cent. of the total on social services shows that we have thought for those in need and that generally, as a people, we are prepared to contribute to the support of those who are unable to take care of themselves."

Is it something to boast about that we have a big number of people in this country destitute, unable to take care of themselves, and that we must provide £12.5 million or 18 per cent. of the total for social services? Is not it an indication that there is something very wrong in the body politic? Is not the fact that we must provide hospitals and institutions an indication that there is something fundamentally wrong? Is not the incidence of disease an indication that the people are not getting the diet they must get to be healthy and virile? Is not it an indication that nutrition, the first essential to healthy conditions, is not there? We have a high incidence of disease and we have many people unable to maintain themselves because of low income level and they become a burden on the State. Surely these are conditions that must be attended to. They have been ignored by the Minister in his Budget statement.

Productive capacity has fallen. The Minister is behaving like a robber and is simply raiding the fund, leaving less to go around. I admit that the Budget is very cleverly disguised. The man in the street does not see the implications of it or the indirect methods of collecting this huge sum from him. He breathes a sigh of relief and says: "There is only 3d. extra on cigarettes. We thought it was going to be a lot more." Few people in the State realise that the Minister for Finance has planned to rake in out of the pockets of the community in the coming year an extra £5,500,000—a new record for an extravagant administration. In view of this expenditure I often think of the very awkward jam we would be in in the event of a sudden world depression, in trying to re-adjust ourselves to the unfavourable conditions that could set in at any time. One would expect that, facing the new conditions in the post-war period, when the world is attempting to adjust itself, the present administration would feel their responsibility to adapt expenditure to those conditions. Instead of that, the Minister for Finance is flying to still greater heights.

The Minister conveniently ignored the financial talks that are due to take place in the next couple of months and, contrary to what we were told by the Minister for Industry and Commerce, he does not appear to worry in the least about what our dollar position will be or whether we will be in a position to import those things that are essential to our existence. I suggest to the Minister that he ought to take the advice of his predecessor and that it is time for him to begin to use the pruning knife. Whatever he intends to spend, there should be a plan to spend it on development and expansion, on organising the country to produce real wealth for the community.

On page 15 of the Budget statement the Minister said:

"It is too seldom realised that the spending by the State of money borrowed from the public tends to add to the amount of active purchasing power almost as surely as an increase of loans by the banks or a fiduciary issue of notes by the State."

I am not an economist but I do not subscribe to that. It all depends on how the money is spent. If the State borrows money and spends it to good purpose to organise and expand production then we should not hesitate to spend. What is fundamentally wrong with the policy of this Government is that they are not spending enough on that vital purpose and are spending far too much on hare-brained schemes that are of no benefit to the community. That policy has been pursued for such a long time that the public are experiencing the results of it in the high cost of living. We should spend a very big sum on drainage. We have discussed the problem of drainage before and we have discussed the effects of the flooding in February and the fact that there is no provision of any sort to meet that situation. The powers are there. A Bill was put through this House supported by every side of the House but, so far as I can see, the Government are prepared to spend money on anything except the essential matters that require urgent attention.

The Government must find a constructive plan for agriculture. The only plan we are offered is this peat moss litter scheme. I would like to ask the Minister who made the calculation that in the use of 4,300 tons of litter, which will absorb the liquid manure, we will collect 2,750 tons of nitrogen and 4,000 tons of kainit. It must have been an expert of a peculiar type who made that calculation. I never heard of such a hare-brained scheme. Even if you offered this peat litter free I do not believe the farming community would pay the transport to their farms. If we are carrying on a system of mixed farming and are engaged in cereal production, every farm has enough straw to convert into farmyard manure without thinking of producing peat litter. If that is the only scheme that Fianna Fáil has to offer agriculture, then God help agriculture.

There may be something to be said in favour of the glass-houses scheme for the West of Ireland, because it is schemes of that sort that will help the small farmer, particularly in the West of Ireland.

They are going to get poultry houses also.

That is a step in the right direction. It is constructive and useful but mixing a useful and constructive scheme with a cod scheme like the peat moss litter scheme does not impress me. There is urgent need for a constructive approach to our economic and social problems. There is urgent need to get down to the problem of dealing with our main industry so as to restore the position that we enjoyed 16 or 17 years ago. If the Minister for Industry and Commerce is right, and I presume he is right, that this country if it is to secure the necessary imports must export, we can only provide exports from agriculture. The House and the country must agree with me that the country is suffering from Government neglect of our main industry. It will take organisation and vigour, determination and capital to change that position and to rehabilitate that particular industry. There is no justification whatever for spending huge sums of money on schemes which are not going to be helpful or beneficial to the community as a whole. The extravagance and the utter disregard for the high level of taxation by the Minister for Finance is throwing very severe burdens on the community, burdens which are a hardship on the people and which are retarding production.

The last speaker wondered, at one stage in his speech, why the Arterial Drainage Bill was passed by this House or why it was put before this House at all. He said that ever since nothing has been done about it. I am sure that he realises, and that every Deputy on both sides of this House realises, that the Arterial Drainage Bill did its job. It was a bait held out at the 1944 General Election to the people in the rural districts whose lands were suffering severely from want of drainage and it contributed in no small way towards the overwhelming return the Government obtained at the last general election. That was the purpose of the Arterial Drainage Bill and if any Deputy believes that the Arterial Drainage Act is going to be put into operation until about six months before the next general election he is very foolish and he knows very little about elections. I know quite well what the Minister for Finance has at the back of his head. It is one of the cards of the three-card trick which he has up his sleeve to pull down a few months before the next general election, just as road-making, land division and other things are held before the people from time to time.

We are faced this year with an appalling Budget which runs into practically £70,000,000. Of that sum the Minister stated that he proposes to borrow £8,200,000. The Minister has admitted in his speech yesterday that the national debt of this country has reached £101,000,000, the servicing of which costs the country almost £5,000,000 annually. That means that as a nation we are living beyond our means. We are going into debt. In other words, we are spending more than we are capable of putting up. The position is similar to that of an ordinary household where if the income is £100 a year and if that household lives at the rate of £110 or £120 a year it is going into debt and that debt must be met or paid at some future time and the interest on it, while it is left unpaid, must also be met. To think that this State started off with a clean sheet 24 or 25 years ago and that we have succeeded in bogging it to the extent of £101,000,000 is certainly no tribute to those in charge of public affairs. I think the time has come for the appointment by this House of an economy commission to inquire and to report generally on how we can save and on how to spend the public money in order to get the best return for it. At the present time all we have here every other day is stop-gap legislation—using money, blocking holes just as they occur, with no general scheme, no outline or picture of what the future for this country is going to be. We in this country are in exactly the same position—except that we have our own ports, Gardaí and Army—as far as social conditions and the life of the people are concerned, as we were before the British left here. No attempt whatsoever has been made to tackle any of the major problems. One matter which strikes me very forcibly which is facing the country and which must come to an end—some genuine effort must be made to stop it if the whole life blood of this country is not going to drain away resulting in death to this country—is emigration. The Minister glosses over it in a few short sentences, as if it is only a minor affair. Here is what he said:—

"In many classes of employment wages here are higher, and when income and other taxes and the cost of a reasonable standard of living are taken into account the balance is clearly in favour of all classes of employment here."

That is a deliberate falsehood. Does the Minister seriously ask this House and the Twenty-Six Counties of this country to believe that if those conditions of employment were given here 29,400 of our best boys and girls would flee from this country?

The Deputy cannot accuse the Minister of deliberate falsehood. He may disagree with the statement, but he cannot accuse the Minister of deliberate falsehood.

I disagree with him violently.

The Deputy must withdraw the phrase "deliberate falsehood".

Very well; I obey the ruling. I would ask the Minister if he believes for an instant that 29,400 of our youth would leave this country like a flock of wild geese to go seeking pleasure or something else of that sort. I suppose I can say that I have been instrumental in assisting 1,800 to 2,000 youngsters in the County Mayo, in the short time since I was first elected to this House, in going to England. I have never met the boy or the girl who went cheerfully. They go for the purpose of earning because they cannot do so at home. I hate to see them leaving the country and I think it is a shocking state of affairs that Government policy could not be framed in such a way as to keep them at home. Surely, if they are good for building up an outside country, England or America, they must be doubly good here at home where they are quite familiar with conditions. Either the Minister for Finance or the Taoiseach left the House under the impression that a lot of these people travel for the sake of travelling and for pleasure purposes. I am sorry to say that I have assisted more people to leave this country than any other Deputy in this House, and that, out of that vast number, I have never met a person who said he or she was going joyfully. The Minister dismisses it in one or two simple sentences:

"I trust there will be a substantial reduction in the net emigration figures in the next 12 months and that workers' organisations, as well as farmers and industrialists, will co-operate with the State in extending the scope for employment in building up our capital resources and our national output."

In these few words we have a nice picture of what the Government's attempt to stop emigration will be for the coming 12 months. The same as in the past. None at all.

The Taoiseach, some 17 or 18 years ago, when he was a member of the Opposition in this House, mentioned the fact that every able-bodied man or woman who left this country meant the equivalent of £1,000 leaving the country. The 120,000 who have left the country since 1938 therefore, according to that figure, must represent a total loss to this country of £120,000,000. Therefore, we have had £120,000,000 worth of Irish flesh and blood exported and not to come back, because we take it that these people will be permanently resident abroad.

The Minister made a great pow-pow about the peat moss litter factory and held out great hopes of it. So much so, that I pricked up my ears thinking that it was going to be the salvation of Irish agricultural life as well as Irish industrial life. The Minister mentioned that the factory is going to deal with 4,300 tons of peat moss litter in the next 12 months. I think that is a smoke-screen to cover up something which I cannot understand. I think there must be something hidden behind it. He said that if farmers use this peat moss litter for bedding for stock and for soaking up liquid manure they will save nitrogen and potash from going to waste on the farms. I think if the Minister had a chat with the Minister for Agriculture and proposed to give a suitable grant to farmers to construct liquid manure tanks, which they are anxious to do, it would be far more to the point and it would not cost half as much. Every farmer is alive to the advantage to be gained by saving liquid manure, although I am sorry to say that in most farmsteads most of it goes to waste and does more harm than good by producing weeds. It is possible to get a grant under the farm improvements scheme at present for that purpose, but it is so small that farmers are not tempted to avail of it. To my mind, this is a lot of hot air about a factory which will not do a whole lot.

As to the question of emigration, which is one of our greatest national ills at present, in my opinion two factors are mainly responsible for it. One is the lack of suitable employment at home, and the other is the failure of the Minister for Finance to provide funds to enable the Minister for Lands to deal with the land question. We all know that the emigration to England and America comes principally from the counties where congestion is greatest. The Minister in his Budget statement stated that a sum of £40,000 is to be given for forestry purposes in the coming year. He did not mention one word about national drainage. He also mentioned that a sum of £40,000 would be provided for land purchase. I have before me a reply given by the Minister for Lands to a question on the 16th April this year in which the Minister admits that the total salaries paid to officials of his Department, excluding labourers, gangers, and other outdoor employees and also excluding the Gaeltacht services and the forestry division, for the year ending 31st March, 1947, amounted to £402,640 13s. 1d. Later in the same reply he admitted that the amount of money spent on the acquisition of untenanted land and the purchase price of holdings resumed amounted to £30,364. Should not the Minister for Finance haul the Minister for Lands over the coals, as we say, on that matter? Has he ever questioned what is wrong with that expenditure, or how a sum of £402,000 is spent on the acquisition, etc., of £30,300 worth of land?

If we ask in this House for some grant or other which will mean that the Minister for Finance will have to find the money, in reply he asks if we have examined our consciences as to how the money would be raised. I hold, and I have always held, that there is extravagant expenditure in a good many Government Departments. The Department of Defence is a notable example where we are definitely spending £3,200,000 more than is needed for the defence of this nation, now that the war is ended and any fear of aggression from outside is a pure myth. In connection with the Department of Lands, we have the absolutely astonishing fact that, excluding gangers, labourers, other out-door employees, the Gaeltacht services and the forestry division, we are paying £402,000 in salaries and the year's work amounted to the purchase of £30,000 worth of land for land division.

In the same question I asked about the number of emigrants from Mayo. We have 23,400 very small uneconomic holdings there and in the year 1938 four families were migrated out of Mayo; in 1944 there were nine; in 1945, seven, and in 1946, 13. Why are the Government deliberately side-stepping the main problems facing the State? When they want to spend money they can get it. We are spending about £5,000,000 on the Army this year, when £2,000,000 would be enough. How is it we are spending £2,800,000 on airport services? Do these take precedence over the lives of the people? The Government are so far up in the clouds with cosmic physics and a lot of other nonsense that they forget about the ordinary people and look upon them merely as being there to squeeze taxation out of them and give them back nothing in return. The Minister for Finance asks from time to time, when we are making certain demands on him, where is he to get the money. These are some of the ways in which it can be got. This is the place to talk about it and to tell the Minister exactly where the savings could be effected. The Government seem to have gone mad on extravagant expenditure.

The Minister for Finance talked about increased social services. He gave a miserable increase of 2/6 to old age pensioners and he takes back most of it from any old age pensioner who smokes by the increased duty on tobacco. A Public Health Bill is in the course of going through the House. So far as I understand, it is welcomed by everybody in the House. Nevertheless, it will entail certain financial commitments, particularly for local authorities. There is no attempt made to come to the rescue of the ordinary ratepayer. Even though the Minister is deaf to many demands, he cannot be deaf to the popular clamour that rates have already gone beyond the point that many ratepayers can bear. If they go any higher, we are treading on dangerous ground and there may be a complete collapse of local administration because of the refusal of ratepayers to meet larger demands on them as it has gone beyond their ability to do so.

I think it is time that a commission should be established to inquire into how we can use the axe and save money and, secondly, how the taxation that is levied every year could be spent to the best advantage nationally, taking into account that one of the first problems is to stop emigration and also taking into account ways and means of preventing that by undertaking national drainage on a large scale.

The £250,000 per year provided under the 1945 Drainage Act is altogether insufficient. The disastrous harvest last year has brought us face to face with this fact, that a vast number of farmers are beggared because of flooding and that flooding is due largely to the blindness and the deafness of the Minister and his Department. They refused to come to the rescue of those people. We must tackle those problems.

I hold that forestry and drainage are two of the greatest methods of stopping emigration, keeping at home some of the 29,400 persons who leave here annually. That was the number that left last year and no doubt a similar number will leave this year if the Government allow them to go. I fear it will be difficult to stop that emigration as long as Fianna Fáil are in power. If we could only employ them in this country, their work would be beneficial, not alone to ordinary farmers but to the nation as a whole. Afforestation must be dealt with on a big scale. Nibbling at it will not be effective. Throwing £40,000 towards it is merely making a joke of it, just as is being done in relation to land division. When a foreign Government was in power here, when England ruled the country, she tackled the land question and the reafforestation of the country on a big scale. Why is it that we are not able even to copy her methods, we who should be the masters in our own country? The Fianna Fáil policy has proved that we are not able even to copy England's methods. We are still exporting our youth, and leaving our social and national evils festering from one year to another. I suppose so long as Fianna Fáil is in power it is all right. Legislation is introduced here merely for the purpose of catching votes. It is about time that we had a national survey in order to effect economies where they can be effected, and to spend our money to the best advantage.

While the Minister's Budget statement may not have contained deliberate falsehoods, or prefabricated terminological inexactitudes, it was, in my opinion, somewhat economical with the truth. While the Minister sought to present a happy picture of a good Government seeking to develop the nation and promote the welfare of all sections, he passed very lightly over the serious diseases which are making such terrible inroads into our economic existence. In his general summing up he patted himself on the back and sought to proclaim to the world what a good Government we have in this country. The fact that we are spending £12,000,000 a year on social services, he said, shows that we are a charitable people, having a thought for those unable to contribute to their own support; that we are a good Christian people.

That expenditure of over £12,000,000 on social services is accounted for to a great extent by the failure of the Government over a long period to solve social problems. We have a shortage of employment for our workers, resulting in a large number of our people having to draw unemployment assistance or to exist upon the demoralising and degrading dole. Are we contributing so much to the welfare of the worst-off section of our people by compelling them to line up at the labour exchanges week after week, in many cases having travelled miles? Are we contributing to their welfare by making paupers of those who draw a miserable weekly dole? Would it not be far better to provide regular work for those men, to put them into some constructive occupation, such as drainage or afforestation, to which Deputy Blowick referred? Is it not also true that quite a substantial amount of this miserable dole is handed out weekly to unmarried mothers in every district throughout the country? Is this such a great social work, helping to uplift our people?

The Minister goes on to say that we are living in uneasy times and we have to make a big contribution towards the defence of our country. We are spending £5,000,000 yearly on the training and equipment of an Army which can do nothing to prevent aggression of the type which modern scientists have developed. Can 12,000 men prevent one atomic bomb falling on this country and projected, perhaps, over a distance of 1,000 or 2,000 miles? According to the Minister, we must have this make-believe, this sham and pretence.

He says we are deeply interested in education, in the development of our language and of our cultural institutions. We spend over £7,000,000 on education and what do we get? We find the young people who leave the national schools have much less education than the youngsters of 40 or 50 years ago, when only a fraction of that amount was spent on education. We find people in industry and commerce complaining that the standard of education nowadays is lamentably low. Then he must pat himself on the back for our contribution to the unfortunate people on the Continent.

He tells us we are spending £7,000,000 on the development of agricultural education and research. What do we get for that enormous expenditure? How does production in agriculture compare to-day with what it was before Fianna Fáil took office, or even before this country set up its independent institutions? We find butter is unobtainable, unless on the black market.

Bacon has disappeared completely. It is like the Sinn Féin funds, it has gone into the Supreme Court for investigation. I do not know whether that investigation will extend to the operations of the Monaghan Bacon Factory. I do not know whether it will extend to the operations of the Government over the past six or seven years which have completely killed and destroyed the bacon-curing industry. Every really important branch of the agricultural industry has dwindled and declined and the Minister comes into this House full of triumph, full of the exuberance of his own enthusiasm and promises the farmers of Ireland peat moss to collect waste on the farms. I do not know anything about the manufacture of peat moss; I do not know anything about its properties, but if this peat moss has the properties with which the Minister credits it, I think it should be used more extensively in all the Government Departments to sop up some of the waste that is ever increasing in these Departments.

Some years ago I supported a proposition that a commission of inquiry should be set up to investigate Governmental expenditure generally with a view to eliminating waste. At that time, I suggested that it was not the waste of money with which we should concern ourselves in the first place but the waste of the ability and energy of so many of our people in unproductive Governmental services. We want the best brains amongst our young people attracted to agriculture and to industry but instead we are all the time throwing out a net to rope unfortunate young people into the Civil Service. I say "unfortunate" because I do not consider that the remuneration of civil servants generally is very high. I do not consider that the life of a civil servant is a very desirable one for any young person to take up. It may offer a reasonable measure of security but I think if there was any real prospect in agriculture or in industry, they would offer a better life to the really able, vigorous young men and women of this country.

I know of course that we must have the ablest possible people in our Civil Service but I think there has been too much of a tendency over the past 15 years to increase and multiply the number of Governmental officials and to create new positions of every kind. In industry, a manufacturer tries whenever possible to cut down expenses and to reduce the number of people required to do each particular job of work but in Government Departments the whole tendency is to make room for more and still more. The Minister's predecessor announced on one occasion in connection with this matter, that when civil servants become redundant in a particular branch they just hang round until they retire as the result of the efflux of time. That would not be tolerated in any industry. There is need for close investigation and a drastic reduction in the number of persons in the Civil Service. You want fewer people for unproductive work and more people directed towards productive work, more people planning and working in the production of the essential goods out of which the nation must live.

The outstanding feature of the Minister's Budget statement was his complete boycotting, if I may use the word, of all references to agriculture, and particularly to the economic conditions through which agriculture passed since the last Budget statement was issued. There were no references in the Minister's statement to the terrible problem which was forced upon this country by the abnormal harvest, a harvest which resulted in the loss of nearly one-third of our grain crop. There was no reference to the losses which that entailed to the agricultural community, apart from the suffering which it entailed for all other sections. There was no reference to the abnormal conditions under which the agricultural industry had to be conducted during the past winter months. One would imagine that, in an agricultural country, the catastrophe which agriculture experienced during the past 12 months would be the first subject of thought and consideration in the Minister's annual Budget statement, but apparently the Minister is not bothered about what the farmer and his workers have got to go through. He will provide them with peat moss and all will be well.

We know that in a neighbouring country, Great Britain, the first reaction of the Government when the snows cleared, or almost even before they had cleared, and the floods began to abate, was to rush to the assistance of the agricultural industry. There was substantial compensation given to those who suffered losses of stock, a substantial increase in the price of most essential agricultural products, and there was provision made also for acreage subsidies to compensate farmers who would be unable in the coming year by reason of the late spring to obtain full production from their land. That happened in an urbanised, industrialised, socialised country, but here in a free society, an agricultural country, a country where the majority of the people are engaged in rural avocations, we have a Government which seems to be so cribbed, cabined, and confined in its outlook to the immediate vicinity of Merrion Square, that we are unable to get any consideration whatever for the pressing problems that beset our most important industry. All that we can get from the Government to meet the situation arising from the farmers' losses is short-term loans, which it will be extremely difficult for the worst-off farmers to obtain by reason of the conditions laid down and which it will be difficult, if the money is invested, to make reproductive within the short period of four years, having regard to the high prices of live stock at present.

Last year the Minister indicated that a certain relief would be given in respect of rates on agricultural land. Portion of that relief would be permanent, but a very substantial portion, he stated, would be of a temporary nature, covering only two years. The employment subsidy to farmers or the employment abatement on rates was guaranteed by the Minister a life of only two years, that is to say, it will expire on 31st March next year, the end of the present financial year, and no indication has been given in the Minister's Budget statement as to whether this employment grant is to be reduced or increased during the coming year. The farmer who wants to plan intelligently, who wants to look ahead, to make provision perhaps for increased employment on his land, has no assurance that he will receive any abatement whatever in rates in respect of the employment he gives in 1948.

That is not a way to deal with agriculture. I have always blamed the present Government for this kind of stop-gap policy in connection with agricultural matters, and I have always blamed the Government for this tendency to mix up schemes for the development of agriculture with local government administration and a thousand other matters. I should like the Minister to make good that deficiency when replying, and at least give us a clear indication of what it is intended to do about the relief of rates on agricultural land in future.

In common with the general taxpayer, the burdens on the ratepayers have been very considerably increased and tend to increase each year. It is the settled policy of the Government to see that the rates are stepped up in proportion to the national taxation. I suppose the Government would feel that it might reflect upon them if there was not a substantial increase in rates every year and these additional burdens are handed over to the local authorities so that their expenditure every year tends to increase.

The Minister was very modest in his reference to the problem of emigration. He devoted a few sentences to that problem, and so far from indicating any national plan or purpose in regard to the problem, he can only express a pious hope. He says: "I trust that there will be a substantial reduction in the net emigration figures in the next 12 months and that workers' organisations, as well as farmers and industrialists, will co-operate with the State in extending the scope for employment in building up our capital resources and our national output." To what extent is the State undertaking national work to relieve emigration? With the exception of the turf scheme, which is absolutely essential at present, practically nothing is being done. There is no extensive development of afforestation or of arterial drainage, and even the housing policy is proceeding altogether too slowly. Even if the Government were making some attempt in regard to providing employment, I think it is sheer audacity to ask the farmers to co-operate with the Government in building up our capital resources and our national output, having regard to the manner in which our farmers are being treated.

Suppose a farmer wants to improve his farm so as to increase its productive capacity, what opportunity has he of providing for that extension? What opportunities are there for the ordinary farmer to obtain the necessary capital to embark upon the improvement of his farm buildings or his land? Is it not a struggle for the farmer at present to make ends meet? Is it not a very able, a very clever and a very hard-working farmer who is able to make his budget balance at present, without being able to set aside any money for capital expenditure, for the improvement of buildings or the reclamation of his land? The farmers having passed through such a year as that through which they have passed, it is absolutely absurd to suggest that there is scope amongst the farming community for the provision of increased employment on the building up of the capital resources of his farm.

The Government must first stop taking the money out of the farmers' pockets. The Government must ensure that the farmer has a margin of profit in his industry before he can plan for expansion of production and increased output. First things must come first. Take the attitude of the British Government in this connection. They say: "Having regard to the conditions through which farmers have passed and in view of the need to give every encouragement to maximum food production, the Government has had under consideration what further measures should be taken to stimulate production this spring as a means of overcoming the effects, so far as practicable, of the exceptionally adverse weather conditions during the past winter." There you have some appreciation of the trials through which the agricultural industry is passing instead of the type of audacious appeal we get from the Minister to farmers to lash out and spend money to provide employment and prevent emigration. The agricultural industry must produce a profit before the farmer will have the necessary capital to expand production and employment.

In addition, does the Minister not realise that the failure of the Government to announce any definite policy with regard to agriculture makes it impossible for the farmer who does happen to have a little capital to embark on capital expenditure? Before the farmer can go in extensively for, say, poultry breeding, and provide poultry houses and all the other equipment, he must have an assurance that the poultry industry will remain stable and secure for a considerable number of years. Before he can go in for an expansion of his tillage equipment, machinery and so on, he must have an assurance that tillage products will carry a remunerative price over a period of years. The same applies to pig raising and every other branch of the agricultural industry. Agriculture is a long-term activity and stop-gap grants are not going to help it out of the low level of production in which it is labouring.

The new taxation increase this year will constitute a very considerable burden on the community. There is no doubt that people who are accustomed to smoking will continue to smoke. Out of each household, a very substantial contribution will have to be made to this sum of £2,600,000 which the Government propose to rake in from tobacco users. I am not an advocate of lightning or unofficial strikes but, if there were a lightning or unofficial strike of smokers, it might be a good thing for the country and it might teach the Minister a very salutary lesson. So far as the entertainment tax is concerned, there is one kind of entertainment which might have been taxed. That is the political céilidhe—particularly the céilidhe at which political speeches are made by a particular Minister. A little extra tax on that type of entertainment might be good not only for the Minister but for the country generally.

I mentioned briefly last night the case of industrious, thrifty people who have invested their life savings in insurance for the purpose of securing an annuity. I think that that type of person has a case for relief. The present system of taxation on that type is very unjust. The capital which people invest in these insurance companies for the purpose of securing an annuity should not be taxed. The principle of taxing a person's capital—in this case, life savings—is fundamentally wrong and unjust. The reform which I urge has, I think, been introduced in most progressive countries. A number of countries have found that that type of impost is entirely unjustifiable on every principle of equity and it has been discontinued. This is a matter which would not involve great loss of revenue and which would give considerable relief to many people in their old age. The man who retires from business or a profession and who invests his savings so as to provide himself with an annuity for life has very little to expect from the State. If he had not an annuity, he would have to try to live on the miserable old age pension which the State provides and which would hardly pay the rent of the couple of rooms he would occupy. The matter has also a social aspect. If old people were encouraged to retire by the guarantee of an annuity which would not be taxed, they would make room for their sons or others to take over their business. This question has long been calling for remedy and it has been remedied in many progressive countries. It urgently demands remedy here.

The failure of the Government to provide any relief from income-tax in respect of children and dependents calls for condemnation. There is no reason why a married person with a family depending upon him should receive only the same concession in this Budget as a married person without dependents. It must be recognised that the cost of supporting and educating a family at present is much higher than it has ever been. There is urgent need for a substantial concession to parents. No matter how glibly the Minister may talk about the necessity for raking in as much money as possible to prevent inflation, I think that the time has come when there should be some concession in direct taxation. The income-tax payer had a right to expect some little relief in this Budget. The income-tax payer who is carrying on a sound, productive industry and seeking to extend it and the man who is trying to give employment had a right to expect that, at least, some of the burden of direct taxation would be reduced. I am one of those who hold that, in principle, income-tax is fair, inasmuch as it is a tax based on a person's means. But nothing is more dangerous or more undesirable than to increase the burden of income-tax to such an extent that it destroys the incentive to extend industry and initiate new enterprises. The man who embarks upon an expansion of his industry or the establishment of a new enterprise which will give employment, takes a very considerable risk of losing all the capital and savings he invests in it. He takes that risk, hoping to make a profit and if the State steps in and takes a large share of his possible profit, there is a tendency for him to sit back and say: "Why should I bother, why should I seek to increase employment or add to the output of the nation by my enterprise?" That is wholly undesirable.

Both agricultural and industrial production must be increased. We know that the State cannot, by direct employment, add very considerably to the volume of goods and commodities. For any increase or expansion in industry or agriculture, we must depend on private initiative and private enterprise, on the man who is prepared to risk his savings and devote a large portion of his life and his energies to the development of private enterprise. He should receive every possible encouragement and that is why the direct tax-payer had very good reason to expect some abatement in income-tax this year.

The concession which has been given in the personal income allowance is not sufficient to encourage enterprise and create the big expansion of industry generally which is so urgently necessary in this post-war period. The nation's development has been held up during the period of the emergency and the time has come to call upon all our people, whatever their opportunities, their energies or their capital resources may be, to put the best possible effort into increasing output during the coming years. The State should give honest individual enterprise the encouragement which it needs, by reducing the burden of direct taxation.

I feel sorry for those who are attempting to criticise this Budget from the opposite benches. To-day we have heard the same story as we heard about every Budget presented by this Government over a number of years. The main criticism appeared to be that there was increased taxation, and we had the old story that the country was going on the rocks and would be bankrupt and that the people were in a bad way. What are the facts, as presented by this Budget? If we examine the figures given by the Minister, as to why he finished with a surplus of £488,000 and if we examine the sources from which this surplus came, we find there was £250,000 increased revenue from motor cars and parts, £417,000 from spirits and £108,000 from tobacco. On the excise side we find there was an increase of £136,000 from betting, of £56,000 from entertainments duties. There was also £307,000 from the registration of motor vehicles and another sum from matches. All these items show that the increase in revenue is from money being spent, in the main, on luxuries. Why are people spending more on luxuries, on betting, on spirits and tobacco, on the purchase of motor cars? They did not spend these amounts in such increased quantities unless they were in a position to do so, unless the money was there. That is an indication of the buoyancy of our financial position, an indication of the improved position of the country, as people are in a position to spend more money on these things.

What else could they spend it on?

There are many ways they could spend it. They certainly did not spend it on these articles before providing for the essentials of life. They certainly did not throw it away on cigarettes or tobacco, on drink or motor cars, unless they were first able to provide all the necessaries of life that are, thank God, available in abundance in this country.

A long time ago.

It may be, in the Deputy's opinion, but whatever he thinks, it is obvious all over the world to-day that, if they want a decent meal, they still find that the only place they can get it is in this "God-forsaken" country that is being criticised by those on the opposite side.

It is at our expense.

Someone mentioned—I think it was Deputy Hughes—that the Minister had a colossal neck and that the country was unorganised as regards wheat and turf production. I would say that any member of Deputy Hughes' Party has a colossal neck to mention those items, as only for the sound planning by this Government and the provision made for and the organisation put into the production of wheat and turf, we would be to-day, and would have been for many years past, both hungry and cold. We would be in a position of complete financial collapse, as if we took the advice of Deputy Hughes and his colleagues and left the position as it was and adopted the attitude of laissez faire they did when they had this responsibility——

Nonsense.

——we would not be in a position to carry on as we did during the war and increase our wheat production to its present level. Neither would we be in our present position, when coal is unavailable. Our industries here would have had to close down but for the sound organisation we put into the turf production schemes and the fact that we were able to get our own fuel, when we had no one to look to but ourselves. Furthermore, it is admitted now, even by the greatest critics of the turf schemes, that we have no place to look to but our own resources for fuel for power or for heating our homes. Anyone who takes up an English paper to-day and sees the position in the British coal industry will agree that we must—of necessity, if for no other reason—concentrate on turf production here. Before I pass from that, I must welcome the provisions made in connection with turf production, for the erection of the turf stations to produce electricity, as envisaged by the Minister. I would like that pushed further ahead and suggest to the Minister that finance should not stand in the way.

It is obvious that the fuel position, as we knew it formerly, is now non-existent. It is also obvious that it will be years and years before the British will be in a position to provide even themselves with sufficient coal. We do not know what changes atomic energy or some other energy may bring about, but if British industry is going to survive coal output there will have to be considerably increased, so that I am afraid they will have very little, if any, to give us. We must do the best we can for ourselves so far as the provision of power and fuel is concerned. We are proceeding with the development of turf, and, side by side with it, of electricity. A provision is made for the carrying out of a rural electrification scheme. The Minister has indicated that we should go ahead at the greatest possible speed with the development of turf and of electricity. I understand that some of the schemes contemplated have gone beyond the experimental stage. Stations for the production of electricity are being established at Clonsast bog, and I understand that portion of the North Mayo area has been inspected with a view to the establishment of a station there. Since the production of power and fuel has now become a national necessity for us, I would urge on the Minister to speed up the completion of the schemes in hands. All that, of course, will be part and parcel of the rural electrification scheme. Power and fuel are greatly needed by industry. We have the hydro-electric scheme and the turf electricity scheme. I may say that the rural community are anxiously awaiting the coming into operation of the rural electrification scheme because it will mean that the town dweller and the country dweller will, so to speak, be put on an equal footing. It will go a long way towards abolishing a lot of the drudgery that is associated with work on our small farm homesteads.

I hope that the Government will be able to proceed quickly with the carrying through of that scheme on the lines already indicated to the House. I think the Minister stated that the scheme was being inaugurated in seven areas. The sooner it comes into operation, then the sooner it will be appreciated by the rural community. With regard to the extra taxation of £2,955,000, I think the Minister has quite properly placed the increases required to provide extra revenue on luxuries. Most people, and certainly I think tobacco smokers, expected that there would be some increase in the duty on tobacco and cigarettes, not so much, perhaps, with a view to conserving dollar currency as to counteract any attempt at smuggling across the Border. We all know there is a great difference between the price of cigarettes here and in the North, and that if any substantial quantity of the cigarettes manufactured here were to be smuggled over the Border it would leave supplies very short here. The Minister has indicated that he intends to deal severely with any attempts of smuggling in that connection. I suggest to him that the penalties should be not only of a monetary kind but that people detected in carrying on that traffic should be liable to a term of imprisonment as well. We know that, due to the existence of the Border and its history, quite a number of people on the Border have become quite demoralised. They are continually being tempted to engage in smuggling and, no doubt, many will now be tempted to try to make hay in a scarcity situation. Cigarettes are a commodity that are easy to transport, and if the profits accruing were sufficiently high many people would be tempted to engage in traffic of that sort. Therefore, I hope the Minister will provide salutary penalties. They should have the desired result.

I have heard various complaints from Deputies opposite about the increase in taxation, but I did not hear one of them suggest that the increased duties should be placed on articles or commodities other than those selected by the Minister. Is there any Deputy opposite who will suggest that the duty on tea, or on some other necessity of the people, should be increased? The additional schemes outlined in the Budget cannot be embarked upon unless provision is made to finance them. The easiest way to get money to carry them through is by a tax on the luxury items which the Minister has selected. During the past year county council employees, public employees of all kinds and workers in practically every category of industry have received increases in wages which will enable them to pay the extra 2d. or 3d. on a packet of cigarettes, if they are smokers. They should not object either to the small increase in the entertainments tax. It is a tax on a luxury business. Therefore, people should not object to contribute to the national effort to provide the schemes outlined in the Budget.

The Minister is also making provision for an ad valorem increase in stamp duties—on stocks and shares. The increase is not very great. If I were Minister for Finance that is what I would do myself, because the people concerned in dealings in stocks and shares are mainly people who are in a substantial way financially. If, however, the Minister is responsible for the increase that was made in land registry charges and land registry fees, I would ask him again, as I asked here on a former occasion, to review the position because that increase means putting a tax on the poorer sections of the community, on those who have small registered holdings of land. The increase in these fees was not, I think, justified. The Minister may have an opportunity of reconsidering that matter before he replies.

The Deputies opposite have also criticised the increase in the butter subsidy. I am at a loss to know whether they want the price of butter to the consumer increased or the price of milk reduced. They cannot have it both ways. If they want to do away with the subsidy and are prepared to allow the price of butter to reach its natural level—it is in short supply to-day—and want to let the consumer be fleeced, well and good. If, on the other hand, they do not want to make provision in the Budget for the payment of a subsidy on butter but to leave things as they are, they have the alternative, which is to reduce the price that is being paid for milk. But to criticise the subsidy without offering any constructive suggestion as to how the matter is to be dealt with is, in my opinion, a sheer waste of time.

A relief that will be welcomed, particularly by workers and others with low incomes, is the relief in income-tax. I have had experience, particularly during the last few months, of a number of workers who, as the result of increases in wages, which in some cases were on a low scale, came within the income-tax code for the first time. The relief given in the Minister's Budget will be welcomed by those workers and by people on lower grades of income.

A practice is growing up with income-tax inspectors of insisting on the submission of audited returns for income-tax purposes, even in the case of very small shopkeepers who have a comparatively small turnover. That is not justified. Many of these people have a very haphazard system of book-keeping. Their business is small. They are not in a position to pay a firm of auditors to produce elaborate balance sheets, reports and statements of their position. What is bothering income-tax inspectors mostly is the question of debts due to those people that would not be returned. I see no reason why they should insist on such a return because if there are debts due, and even if the debts due increase during a particular year, when they come in, the amount will appear in the accounts and in the bank account and will be reflected in the capital position, and the income-tax inspector, in due course, will get full particulars as to the amount of the debt and the amount of credit given by any particular trader or creditor. That is one thing that gives rise to a great deal of trouble. I am not suggesting that audited accounts should not be furnished where they are obviously necessary and where the volume of business carried on justifies it but, if possible, the code should be simplified for the benefit of the smaller trader who considers the income-tax people and the income-tax code as being utterly impossible. He does not understand them and it is a source of continual worry to him. He does not understand the forms submitted to him and he does not understand his own position when he is finished with the income-tax inspector. I do not know if it would be possible for the Minister to provide a simplified code but for the smaller business man there should be some cheap and simple way of dealing with his income-tax, particularly where he is quite frank and is prepared to provide certificates from his bankers as to his financial position and to submit in his own way a statement of capital and stock.

I welcome the provision for Gaeltacht scholarships in the Budget and in particular the provision for tomato houses. A Deputy on the other side cynically suggested that this Budget would be known as—

Codology.

——"the tomato house Budget" and the peat-moss Budget. I do not know why people who purport to talk for agriculture should attack a Budget in which provision is being made for the poorer sections of the farming community in the congested areas. In connection with the tomatohouse scheme, the Minister said that it is for the Gaeltacht. I do not know whether it is confined to the fíor-Ghaeltacht or whether it will be extended to the breac-Ghaeltacht or be made available to congested areas. I have long felt that the growing of tomatoes and certified seeds and plants should in the main be concentrated in the congested areas. No matter what we do in regard to land settlement in this country, we still will have congested areas and these congested areas are eminently suitable for schemes of this kind. In the poorest areas of Mayo I have seen the finest tomatoes produced. In fact, although Mayo is in the main congested, we boast of producing possibly the only germ-free tomato plants and germ-free strawberry runners in this State and we have achieved a reputation, particularly in respect of strawberry runners, far beyond our shores. This will be a great opportunity of helping people in the congested areas whose lands are poor and who must rely upon sidelines in order to work out a reasonable economy. I welcome this attempt to concentrate the growing of tomatoes in these areas. I would like the Minister to state, when he is replying to this debate, whether this scheme will be available throughout the breac-Ghaeltacht as well as in the fíor-Ghaeltacht because it is a scheme that would be very welcome in my county, and I am sure in every congested area.

It is interesting to notice from the Minister's statement the increase over last year in Savings Bank deposits of £2,287,000 and in Savings Certificates of £405,000. These figures are particularly interesting in view of the fact that the Savings Bank is the small man's bank and the Savings Certificates are the small man's investment. Commercial bank deposits increased by something over £16,000,000 but I consider that the figures in respect of Savings Bank deposits and Savings Certificates reflect more accurately the position as far as the small man and the small farmer are concerned. It is a clear indication of the expansion of wealth and gives the lie to those who say that the small farmer is bankrupt and in a bad way generally, that he is down and out. These figures are illuminating from that particular point of view.

The increases given in wages, particularly the increases in wages to persons in public employment, must constitute a considerable amount of the money we have to provide in this Budget. Considering that these increases have been provided considering that these new schemes are being financed, considering the crisis the country has gone through during the last two years, the Minister is to be congratulated on being able to achieve the position disclosed in this Budget. It is farcical and ludicrous to compare the figures that we are budgeting for now and those that were budgeted for in 1929. There is no necessity to give me any money if I do not want to spend money. There was no necessity and no justification for the Government that was in office in 1929 to collect the millions that they collected when they did not make any provision for the people comparable with the provisions that are being made for them now. The people of this country are not prepared to put back the hands of the clock. We are a progressive people. As a progressive people, we demand, as the State can afford it, more social services. We have demanded, and we have succeeded in giving our people widows' and orphans' pensions, family allowances, increased old age pensions, increased provision for hospitalisation and provision for health.

By how much have you increased the old age pensions? You should be damn well ashamed of yourselves. Two shillings and sixpence in Éire; 25/- in Northern Ireland and England. Go and put your heads in bags.

The Deputy may be an old age pensioner himself, and being one of the oldest members of this House, I suppose he is entitled to enjoy a certain amount of immunity as far as that is concerned. I would not mind the senile ramblings of the Deputy, but I would mind criticism of this kind coming from his more active colleagues on these benches. They talk with their tongues in their cheeks about expenditure in this country in 1929, when they, in fact, made none of those provisions for social services which we make to-day. It is absurd for them to talk about the increase in the amount of the Budget. If we cut out the provision the people have demanded for social services in this State, if we cut out the provision people have demanded for better health services, for better hospitalisation, for family allowances, for milk schemes, for boot schemes and for the various schemes for our poor, for the provision of unemployment assistance, for the provision of the amounts that are made available for people in necessituous circumstances, it would be quite easy for the Minister and for this Government to reduce the amount of this Budget. If the people demand increased social services and if this House feels that this money should be spent towards endeavouring to make better provision for our people in this country, then I, for one, and I am sure my colleagues in this Party agree with me, am prepared to vote for higher taxation so long as the State can afford it, and I think we can afford it. I think one of the best tests of any particular Government is how it is looking after the poorer and weaker sections of the community. When we find that in this State, in comparison to the total amount of our national income, we are expending as much as £12.5 million on social services, I think it is a good sign that we, at least, are not neglecting our responsibility and that we are endeavouring to look after the people who are not in a position to look after themselves.

I again congratulate the Minister on his second effort as Budget-maker and, if the Minister continues with Budgets of this kind, I have no doubt that he will, as he always has done, enjoy the confidence of the Irish people.

It is difficult to understand by what criterion some Deputies judge our general position here. If the standard is that certain customs revenue last year showed an increase over the previous year, I think they are welcome to it. The largest increase last year was £417,000 on spirits. If we divide that over the whole population it means approximately 2/8 per head for the whole year. If we add the total of these together—all the various increases, spirits, tobaccos, hydro-carbon oil, motor cars, betting and entertainment duty—it will not come to £1 per head per year on that basis, taking out small children and allowing the burden to be borne by adults. When we consider that we have been suffering for a number of years from a scarcity of butter, bacon, and eggs, I am quite willing to present the last Deputy who spoke with the palm for the criterion that he has adopted— an increase in the revenue from these different items in the customs side of the revenue estimates. If he accepts that as a sound criterion, he is welcome to it. I think there are other criteria, and that the general soundness of our position here is the one which we should adopt.

We should examine and see whether our national expenditure of £69,000,000 is providing more of our people with employment, one year over another. If we examine the particulars, as furnished by the different Departments, we will find that with a relatively small increase in the numbers under the unemployment insurance of the Department of Industry and Commerce, allowing for a small increase in the numbers under national health insurance and taking from that the numbers who, for the past eight years, have emigrated—in particular when we consider that in 1944 there was a stoppage of emigration and that the figure for emigration last year showed that 29,000 people left this country for work elsewhere—we must realise that not merely is the national economic fabric not good but there are serious defects in it which it is the duty of every member of this House and, in particular, of members of the Government, to try to remedy. It is an extraordinary commentary on our whole national economic position that an emigration rate of 15,000 per annum at the very least—I think that is a conservative figure—has characterised our economy here during the last eight years and that, at the same time, we have shown an increase in the number of recipients of unemployment assistance. Deputies have prided themselves on the Bill, and on the portion of this Bill which refers to the cost of social services. Yet we are now obliged to spend 18 per cent., amounting to £12.5 million of our total national expenditure on social services. A question which always arouses some controversy is whether social services are a sign of enlightened and improved national conditions or whether the payment of these services and benefits is in fact not a tribute but a condemnation of the particular form of national economy and of the particular Government in existence. It is true that we should provide, that we must provide, for all those people in the community who are unable to provide for themselves. When we find that we are unable to put more people into employment, that we have a rising emigration rate and that, at the same time, our expenditure on social services amounts to 18 per cent. of the total national expenditure, then I think that Deputies must realise that it is no tribute to our economic position but that we are forced to stand for it because these people cannot maintain themselves and their families out of gainful employment.

I think that nothing is less attractive in this Budget than the fact that it shows no constructive outline or no constructive approach to the many problems which confront this country. The best that can be said for it is that it maintains the status quo in our economic situation but there is this significant difference that in the coming year we propose to take £2,955,000 more from the people than we took last year—an increase in taxation of almost £3,000,000. The fact that we have not increased direct taxation, that we have been able to meet this increase in expenditure by taxing luxuries, by increasing the tax on tobacco and certain forms of entertainment, and by increasing the stamp duties on stocks and shares, etc., merely shows that we are only maintaining the existing position and that we are not in any way facing the situation which confronts us in a constructive manner. Anyone would have thought that at the end of the emergency the Government would display some constructive ability, that because we were held up by shortage of supplies and materials and insufficiency of plant and machinery an effort would now be made to encourage agriculture and industry to get into the maximum production. We find, however, that the only contribution the Government have to make is to maintain the position as it was last year. Last year more or less kept it as it was in the previous year, so that two years after the conclusion of hostilities we have no constructive approach to or no full picture of our situation.

We have given certain minor tax reliefs. Considerable play has been made with the fact that 27,000 people will be relieved from income-tax by the increase in the personal allowance for single men from £120 to £140 and for married men from £220 to £260. I should like to point out that in the past year, certainly since last September, a large number of people in different walks of life received increases in wages. When the number of recipients of this increase is available, I think it will be obvious that, instead of 27,000 being relieved of income-tax, a substantial increase in the number of income-tax payers will be evident. Take the case of unskilled labourers who had £3 per week pre-war. Many of these people now have been raised to £4 10s. Pre-war, they were not liable to income-tax; now they will pay tax on £47 at 3/3. They will be now paying a tax of £7 12s. 9d. when pre-war they paid no tax. At the same time the cost of living has increased by 70 per cent. Wages increased at the maximum only by 50 per cent. It will be seen by the end of this financial year that we have not reduced the number of people liable to income-tax, but that a substantial number will have been added to the list of taxpayers. The increase in wages recently granted, which was only a monetary increase, took no cognisance of the fact that almost every commodity people have to buy, such as essential foodstuffs, domestic articles, clothing, boots, etc., if they have not increased in price, have become more scarce. So far as we can see, therefore, the tendency in the coming year will be that the cost of living will rise still further.

The Minister stated that if the cost of living fell considerably during the year the butter subsidy and other subsidies could be reduced accordingly. Deputies are aware that the price of meat has increased still further this week. In fact, the price of cattle at present makes one wonder how the majority of people in this country, if the price remains as it is, will provide themselves with meat. I think it will be seen when the full impact of this Budget is brought to bear on the people that it is not an improvement, but that if anything conditions under it will be worse than they were last year.

There are a number of matters I should like to refer to. One is the corporation profits tax. I am surprised that the Minister remitted that tax. As I understand it, the corporation profits tax amounted to about 10 per cent. and the excess corporation profits tax amounted to 50 per cent. The 50 per cent. tax was reduced some time ago and now the Minister proposes to remit it. I appreciate the fact that any tax which prevents industrialists putting back into industry any money they earn, over and above that required to defray expenditure for current purposes, is not a good tax. I think there is no case for not making that tax payable on a sliding scale and that a concession should be given to every industrialist who puts the profits back into his industry. But, where profits over and above those required for current expenditure are not put back into industry, I think the tax should be on a sliding scale. Apparently, the Minister has deemed it desirable to remit entirely the corporation profits tax and the excess corporation profits tax.

If the Minister wishes to assist industrialists, I think that he should do more than make an allowance to them in respect of all stock held on 31st December last. Many industrialists made profits during the war years. Some of them paid heavily in taxation and now many of them find that they are working at a loss and that the allowance in respect of stock held on 31st December, 1946, will not in any way meet their obligations owing to the present trading conditions. Unless the Minister is prepared to allow industrialists and traders some concessions for the conditions now obtaining and make an allowance to them in respect of losses, say, for a three-year period, just as they paid tax in respect of the previous five or six-year period, then I think a number of people will find themselves in serious difficulties and that the minor concession in respect of stock held on 31st December, 1946, will in no way meet the losses which many traders have incurred.

The Minister dwelt at some length on the different aspects of our expenditure and on the proportion they bore to our total expenditure. In particular he dwelt on the fact that 18 per cent. of the total was spent on social services. I think he dwelt rather lightly on the emigration position. We propose to spend on telephone and postal services a total of £8.9 million, which, in my view, is far too heavy a burden for this country, particularly when we consider the type of service we are getting from the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs complains that he cannot get equipment; but when he could get equipment, he did not get it. Now, we find ourselves looking for scarce equipment at highly inflated prices. During the current year we propose to spend £2.8 million inflated prices.

During the current year we propose to spend £2.8 million on airport and air services. On the Vote for the Department of Industry and Commerce I said our air services, and the facilities afforded, reflected credit on all concerned; but I then questioned the wisdom, as I question it to-day, of establishing here an air company with a capital of £5,000,000 to develop a transatlantic air service. We have lost our sense of proportion, in so far as air development is concerned, if we endeavour to embark on a service in competition with large American companies. These companies have large financial resources. They are prepared to lose, and have in the past lost, considerable sums on these services. If we lost anything like a similar sum here, we should find ourselves in serious difficulties. The fact that we have been singularly successful up to the present on a smaller scale is no reason why we should embark now on widespread development in competition with companies possessing large resources. I suggest that there the Minister could save a sum which would assist considerably in other directions. In fact, the particular sum involved, £2.8 million, would practically meet the proposed increase in taxation for this year. I suggest the Minister should seriously consider the position with regard to our air services on the new transatlantic route.

One of the aspects of the Minister's speech which I thought did not get sufficient attention, and on which he dwelt only for a few moments, was the housing situation. He said that last year 1,000 new houses had been built by local authorities and it was hoped that in the current year a further 1,500 would be built. The fact that the Minister hopes to have only 1,500 built in the coming year shows that the Government have no realisation of the gravity of the situation. In my constituency alone they need 1,500 houses, not to speak of the requirements in other parts of the country. If we are to proceed at the rate of 1,500 houses a year for the whole country, the housing problem not merely will not improve in the coming year, but a deterioration is likely to occur in the provision of new houses and in the adequacy of repairs of the houses under the control of local authorities.

The paper published earlier this year, which gave particulars of the census of population held last year, showed that approximately one-fifth of the country's population is concentrated in the Dublin area. When we consider the urgent need for new houses, it is obvious to everyone how wrong is the system which has resulted in such a large congregation, amounting to one-fifth of the total population, in the Dublin area, including not merely many people not in productive employment, but many new applicants on an already overcrowded housing list. That must give the Government food for thought; it certainly gives other Deputies and the people throughout the country food for grave consideration. We have reason to condemn vigorously the inability to put our people into productive employment, and to condemn the whole Governmental approach to industrial development.

The fact that industrial development has been mainly concentrated in the Dublin area has aggravated the situation here from many points of view. It has resulted in the port and other services being overcrowded and it has now resulted in a shortage of houses, a shortage that cannot be met by the output of the Dublin Corporation or the Dublin County Council, coupled with the rather rapid extension in building by private builders or companies engaged in the construction of houses other than those provided by local authorities. It is a fact that every local authority dealing with the housing situation in the Dublin area has a long waiting list of applicants and these applicants are not merely people who have lived here for years and not merely people with large families on the list for accommodation the moment the position improves, but they are people who have come on to the list quite recently from provincial towns and rural areas. That situation has presented local authorities with a serious problem. The Minister's hopes for the provision of a further 1,500 houses for the whole country by local authorities in the coming year will not go far to solve it. It does not remedy to any appreciable degree the grave situation which has arisen.

Finally, I want to deal with a problem which I think will become more serious for the country in the next few months. It is a matter on which the Minister was strangely silent. That is, how the country will provide itself with dollar currency. On the 17th April—Volume 105, No. 6, column 802 —the Minister for Industry and Commerce, in the course of his speech on the Estimates, said:—

"The purchase of goods other than those of British origin was made possible, in the main, by the provision of dollars from the sterling area dollar pool. According to current proposals, this pool will come to an end in July next from which time sterling arising from current transactions should be freely convertible into other currencies. Study of our trade statistics will, however, create doubt as to whether the total volume of convertible sterling available to us will be adequate to cover purchases outside the sterling area in circumstances in which nonmonetary factors at present limiting supplies will not be operating. Should that position arise, it would create problems of a substantial kind, affecting not merely the adequacy of our supplies of consumer goods but also our capacity to carry through plans for major economic development which require heavy payments abroad for necessary equipment."

The Minister, in those sentences, showed that he recognised the seriousness of the position. The fact is that if we are not able to get dollar currency on and from July next, we will find ourselves short of many essential commodities, not merely for current needs but for capital development. It is not entirely the responsibility of the Minister for Industry and Commerce to deal with financial matters, but the major Departments of State, and particularly any Department depending, such as the Department of Industry and Commerce is, on the supply of materials which we have to import, must inevitably take cognisance of the fact that that situation will be serious; but for some unknown reason the Minister for Finance, in his Budget, did not even refer to the situation which will arise.

I should like to hear from him how the Government propose to provide this country with the necessary hard currency from July next, when the dollar pool comes to an end. On and from that date the only currency which will be freely convertible will be that available from current transactions. Our current transactions with the United States are almost negligible. Up to this, apparently, we have been facilitated by the dollar pool, of which the British have had the use. How we propose to provide ourselves with this currency without a very substantial increase in exports from July next to the hard currency countries is a matter on which the Government should give the House some information.

An Ceann Comhairle resumed the Chair.

There have been talks at Geneva and elsewhere recently on world trade and financial problems. We were not represented at some of these talks and at others our representatives were in the position of observers. So far we have heard nothing from the Government as to what transpired at these talks or as to our policy or our outlook in the conditions which will arise when the various plans and agreements come to at these conferences are put into operation. I think the Dáil and the country should get some information on that point and the prime responsibility for informing the Dáil and the country rests on the Minister for Finance. We had in the past, and have still a certain export trade with the United States. Even allowing for a substantial increase in that trade, it is questionable whether it would enable us to provide ourselves with sufficient dollars to provide the capital equipment we must have in the immediate future. I think it is obvious to everyone that the extent of our dollar credits, even with a substantial increase in trade with America or any other hard-currency countries, would not in any way make available to this country sufficient hard currency to provide us with capital equipment or the many commodities which we need. Unless the Government can inform the country of the plans and proposals they have in this matter in the near future, then many people will find themselves in serious difficulties. Traders, industrialists and producers of all kinds will require a dollar currency and it is the responsibility of the Government to inform the people of the plans or proposals they have and the plans or proposals to which the Government may consider committing the country, in view of the various talks and negotiations that have been going on in recent months, particularly the most recent at Geneva.

I think it is a strange commentary on the Minister's approach to this problem that he did not even refer to that matter in his speech. There is an impression abroad that the Government are approaching this dollar problem in a timorous fashion but whether they are approaching it in a timorous or a courageous fashion, they should at least inform the Dáil of their views on the situation. So far only one Minister has adverted to it. He has adverted to it in sober terms, obviously realising the seriousness of the situation and realising that unless some method be adopted or some plan put into operation which will enable us to provide ourselves with sufficient dollar currency, we will find ourselves without necessary capital equipment. It is the responsibility, as I say, of the Minister to inform the Dáil and the country of his views on the situation, and I hope that when he is concluding, he will give us some indication of what these views are.

The only other matter to which I should like to refer is the fact that the Budget lacks imagination and lacks any reasoned approach to the difficult situation that confronts this country. At the present time, as the Minister mentioned in his speech, we have a surplus of money and a shortage of goods. So far as one can read the Budget, one gathers that the tendency is for that situation to develop, with quite rapid momentum in certain respects, rather than disappear. No attempt is being made to control or reduce the cost of living.

Deputies opposite have referred to the fact that there has been an increase in the value of Savings Certificates by over £2,000,000 and an increase in the deposits in the commercial banks last year of £16,000,000, but that is no indication of any improvement in our situation. If we had plenty of goods, if plenty of houses were being built, and if plenty of essential commodities, such as food and clothes, were available cheaply and if we had further savings in these circumstances, it might indicate either a lack of enterprise or the taking of serious precautions for the rainy day, but under present conditions, with shortages of everything that we need, a saving to the extent evidenced by the recent figures and by the figures given by the Minister, merely indicates that not only are we not in a position to supply ourselves with many of the things we need, but that different sections in the country are short of the very essentials of life. In so far as capital equipment, housing and other necessities are concerned, we find ourselves with all these services becoming fewer. At the same time the emigration figures show that we are not able to provide sufficient work for our people in gainful employment.

I should like finally to suggest that while, as I said on a former occasion, the Minister for Finance has able, competent and conscientious advisers, the general impression one gets from the Government's approach to these problems is that there is nobody charged with responsibility for general economic planning and that the aim is merely to retain the status quo. Civil servants who are burdened with ordinary administrative work cannot devote much attention to considerations of an economic character. In my opinion, the Government should set up a national advisory economic council, a small council of competent people, whether they be professional or other economists—at any rate, people who are in a position to look at the situation, not from the day-to-day standpoint from which those engaged in the administration view it, but, standing back, are able to view the whole situation, the fact that we have here an agricultural economy which is almost static, that our industrial output is only slightly above the pre-war standard and that we have, as I have already stated, a negligible increase in the numbers employed and a continued upward rise in the numbers leaving the country. I think that one possible solution, certainly a step that might pay a dividend from the point of view of the country in general, would be to set up a council which would consider the matter in a detached manner, looking at the position, if you like, from a pedestal, and, realising the seriousness of our national economic position, endeavour to devise some plans which, so far, have been singularly lacking in the Government's proposals.

Those of us who are old enough to recollect the trend of affairs after the last war will remember that some years after its conclusion the world was confronted with a terrific depression which continued for some years. The position, I think, briefly was that after the conclusion of the war prices remained at the very high scarcity level to which the public had been more or less accustomed during the progress of the war in the various countries affected by it. They actually went higher than the war prices, high as they were, for a couple of years after its termination, and then, when international trade began to revive and primary products became available and the national economy in the different countries began to be set to rights, prices came down, one might say, with a bang, with the result that there was a distinct hiatus between the new price structure and the level of costings, the level of wages and the levels to which primary producers had been accustomed in their remuneration previously.

The Government had this situation in mind during the recent war, and it was because we were extremely anxious that a situation would not develop in which we would have a tremendous inflation of prices, followed by increased wages, this again resulting, through the operation of the well-known inflationary spiral, in further increases in prices, that the Government recommended to the Dáil, and got the country to accept, the policy of the standstill in regard to wages and prices, in so far as the Government was able to control prices and wages. Some time ago, there was a genuine expectation, in which the Government shared, that prices would begin to come down. After the war had been over for about a year, it seemed reasonable to expect that shipping would become normal, for example, that steps would be taken to rehabilitate the industries in the countries which had been at war, to get international trade going again and to have brought back normal peaceful trading conditions.

That, as everyone knows, has not been achieved, for various reasons, including the fact that genuine peace conditions have not been secured and international trading has not become anything like normal. We see countries like Great Britain, which was among the greatest commercial and economic powers, going one might say, from one crisis to another. We have not been able to escape, and countries stronger economically and more powerful in population, wealth and resources than we, have not been able to escape, the effects of the disturbance in the world situation. We have also to bear to some extent the brunt of the effect of the great war the world has been through and the disturbance it has created, the tremendous disequilibrium it has set up. When we are examining the Budget, if we go further afield than examining it purely from the point of view of national account keeping, from the point of view of the annual balance sheet of our national Exchequer, I think we shall have to take into account, more seriously than some of the speakers seem to have done, the general world situation into which our situation here fits. The Government were seriously criticised during the emergency period and afterwards for their standstill policy and it could perhaps with a light heart have decided to depart from that policy, if there were that assurance I refer to, that seeming promise of a fall in the cost of living. There was that hope undoubtedly a year or a year and a half ago, but a succession of events with which Deputies are familiar has prevented that fall which was expected, which we were not certain would have taken place in more favourable circumstances but which we hoped would eventuate.

We are now in the position that we cannot say for certain what the world trend is going to be and when Deputies lightly and blithely accuse the Government of neglect, and of failure to do this and lack of provision for that, they ought surely to remember, if they give any serious consideration to the matter, that some economic disturbance on the other side of the world, in the United States of America, for example, can create a crisis not alone here but almost over the entire globe, something that may not have been foreseen, and the ill-effects of which, if it had been foreseen, we are not in the position, any more than Governments in other countries are, to dissipate entirely.

That is the position, that we are a comparatively small community in power, resources and population, and when one sees the tremendous forces operating in the world to-day, in disharmony, if not in actual conflict, and the fact that they have not been able to get down to some kind of solid agreement about big issues which must obviously be settled before normal conditions can be restored to the world, it is really very shortsighted, to put it mildly, of Deputies to try to pretend to the country and to the Dáil that the Government can provide against these things. The world has been entirely changed and the recent war has accentuated that change, and has carried it on at a very much more rapid rate than anything we were previously accustomed to. We are all so much bound up internationally that we cannot escape, even to the extent we were able 20 or ten years ago to escape, the effects of these international economic disturbances and failure to get back to normal conditions.

The Government has been trying during the past financial year to let up, if I may use the expression, to some extent upon its policy of standstill, in regard to wages in particular. Everyone knows that the wage earning, and particularly the salaried classes on the middle incomes, had an extremely difficult time during the emergency, and it was not from any lack of understanding of their difficulties or any lack of anxiety to help them, that the Government did not permit general increases in wages and salaries. The Dáil and the country realised the position when the Government had to take certain measures under the Emergency Powers Act. The reasons for that were, I think, fully appreciated, but when we face a situation in which we are not quite sure what the future trend is going to be, a situation in which, in a year's time, the position is going to be definitely better than it is at present, from the point of view of the cost-of-living figure, it is extremely difficult for the Government, and it has got very little advice in this debate, to know what is the best thing to do.

I think that even those who agitate most strongly and vigorously for increased remuneration realise that if these demands were unleashed and if the Government permitted all such demands to be acceded to, we would soon find ourselves in a terribly serious economic position. The situation would simply become chaotic, if one demand were to follow another, driving up prices and wages in quick succession. We have to look before us and ask ourselves whether, when our demands have been met, unless these other factors in the situation improve, we are going to be any worse off than we were at the beginning, and we have to be careful in the adjustments we make that we are not releasing other factors and creating other reactions which will make further adjustments necessary, perhaps very shortly.

If world economy was settling down and there was a prospect of goods coming into plentiful supply and normal trading being restored, the situation would be clear enough. But that is not the situation. We have always told the people that we never believed that when the war ended, even if peace were signed—and it has not been signed yet—we were going to avoid all the difficulties which the war situation had created. Everybody who went through the previous war and knew its effects was aware that that would not be possible. World affairs are more inter-connected now—particularly economically—than they were then. We feel the effect of forces over which we have no control far more than we did previously. We tried during the financial year to ease the position of the classes which, we thought, stood most in need of consideration. If we could not entirely compensate them for the increase in the cost of living—and nobody thinks we could give complete compensation without causing more serious results in other respects—everybody will admit that the Government have done a great deal. If they had gone further and attempted to give full compensation for the increased cost of living to those who were seeking it, I wonder would Deputies still find fault with the Government. If they were patriotic and had regard to the national interest, those Deputies would have to admit that that would not be in the national interest—that it might be against the national interest.

In these transitional circumstances, increases have been given to certain classes. State servants have been partially compensated for the heavy increase in the cost of living. It is admitted they are not as well off as they were before the war. As the Minister's budgetary statement pointed out, until goods become more plentiful, the mere pouring out of money from the Exchequer directly into the pockets of State employees, or the mere leaving of it in the tax-payer's pocket—which is often the best thing to do—would simply mean that more money would be added to the unprecedented volume of currency in circulation, with a very limited supply of goods. How would that increase the volume of goods? You would still have the physical difficulties regarding increased production of goods and the monetary mechanism would not, of itself, alter that situation. Nobody believes that pouring out additional money or increasing wages indiscriminately would alter that situation for the better. It would alter it for the worse. The increases to State servants during the past year amounted to about £2,000,000. Recently, the Minister for Health announced that a somewhat corresponding increase would be given to old age pensioners, widows and orphans and others who come under the social services. That will amount to a further £2,000,000. Allowance must be made for those very big increases which, in the nature of things, can only partially compensate the recipients for the increased cost of living. The Minister has made provision in the Budget for the butter subsidy. If the arrangement regarding farmers' butter works out satisfactorily and brings a substantial amount of that butter into the pool for consumption by the public, it will add to the amount the Minister had in mind for subsidising creamery butter. The total will work out at about £1,250,000. Relief for income-tax payers, through increased allowances, amounts to £930,000 or almost £1,000,000, so that, added to the £4,000,000 for increased social services, you have these two items which run to well over £2,000,000, making £6,000,000 in all. That is a new sum of £6,000,000 which we had not to account for last year.

The size of the bill is certainly very great. But Opposition front benchers are accustomed to tell us that the £ is now worth only 10/-, that money has decreased in value by at least 50 per cent. in recent years. The same point was made in this debate. According to pre-war values, on this argument, the £61,000,000 which it is hoped to raise during the year in taxation would represent only half that figure. I have mentioned considerations regarding inflation which the Government has had to keep in mind. If they do not try to foresee the trend in these matters, the responsibility will be upon their shoulders. In every country where the Minister for Finance has been faced with this situation, the recognised way of drawing money from the pool of currency, when it was obvious that the volume of money was far greater than the volume of goods, was by resort to taxation and savings. The Minister has pointed out in his statement that we have had substantial increases in savings. Increases in Savings Certificates, deposits in savings banks and in the commercial savings banks were considerable and these savings went up, I think, to something like £90,000,000 last year. Even so, the volume of money in circulation is completely out of proportion to the volume of goods in certain categories. With a view to preventing speculation and to try to bring about a certain stability in these matters, the Minister has had recourse to direct taxation. Last year reductions were made in taxation in respect of excess profits. That was a war-time tax The Government recognised that that tax could not be carried into peace-time. When it was reduced, we were accused of allowing profiteers and plutocrats of the business community to get away with their profits. According to Opposition speakers, they thrived handsomely upon the consumer and were exploiting him to the utmost. Their criticisms would lead one to believe that the Government should not have given that reduction. At any rate, it must have meant that a substantial amount of money was available in some form or another which had not been previously in competition with private consumers. Anyone who examines the question will realise that, in times when inflation threatens, when the currency is swelling at a great rate and the supply of goods is not increasing in anything like the same proportion, it is necessary to have recourse to direct taxation.

I do not agree with the way in which Deputy Hughes suggests that taxation affects the cost of living. A good case could be made to show that direct taxation, by preventing people from spending money except on actual essentials, and therefore letting them take their share of the pool of goods available to the community generally only to the extent that they found absolutely necessary for their needs, should, in circumstances like the present, be kept at a pretty high level.

The Minister for Finance, however, has recognised that, in the case of the middle-class and the lower salaried employees generally, some relief is necessary. They form the great bulk of those concerned but it would not be confined to them. You would also have tradesmen whose circumstances compare more than favourably with the salaried employee. The salaried employee, having regard to his position, the rent he has to pay, the cost of education for his family and the standard he has to maintain, whether he be a civil servant, or a teacher or even a clerk in a commercial office, must look sometimes with envy at the skilled tradesman who is receiving higher remuneration and is not expected by the public to maintain the same position. We have had that in the case of the police force. They have to maintain a certain position and cannot have the same ready acquaintance with people, they have to keep apart to some degree and the Government had to bear in mind, in trying to treat them as generously as circumstances permitted, that they laboured under those disadvantages. If we are going to have income-tax—and it is one of the most important revenue producing agencies—every person who is receiving an income over the legal limit, more than the law provides in the annual Finance Bill, will have to pay his or her share. It is not the burden of direct taxation about which the Minister worries a great deal in the case of the classes to which I have referred, as he realises the standards they have to maintain and the costs they cannot escape and that they have to pay almost the highest prices for what they purchase. He has to try to meet them and has tried to do that through the increased allowances he has given.

Would the farmer Deputies who have spoken so eloquently about income-tax in this debate not turn their attention to the items that go to make up the cost-of-living figure, such an item as meat, for example? The ordinary income-tax payer will feel the increased price which is threatened for meat more seriously than the income-tax problem confronting him. The meat scarcity arises partly, no doubt, out of the extremely severe weather we have had, but it must call the attention of the public, and particularly the salaried and wage-earning classes, to the fact that a certain fairly high and remunerative level of prices is being paid for agricultural produce at the present time.

What is the legal limit of an income?

The limit I referred to is that which is laid down in the Finance Bill—the limit at which income-tax first becomes payable. Deputy Cogan informed us that the Government must ensure a margin of profit for the agricultural producer. He omitted to state what standards the Government should have in mind. If we are going to ask the Government, and through them the community, to bear the cost of giving a fair profit to the farmer or to any other type of producer, we must ask ourselves what the standard is to be. Are we to take the standard of the most efficient producer? I am sure there is no one in the House, least of all among the Government, who would agree that that could be accepted as a general standard. It would be said it would exclude a great number of producers who are working very hard, doing their best and really trying to give the country the best value possible, to turn out the greatest quantity and make it available in the market for the community at the lowest price possible. Are we then to be driven to the other extreme and base our calculation on ensuring a margin of profit to the least efficient producer? If we set out on that policy, it will cost us millions of pounds. Against it, it can be argued that it will not be utilitarian in the end. If the producer is so lacking in efficiency that he can never stand on his own two feet or carry on his business by his own capacity, foresight and industry, then there is really no future for him.

Surely it is not efficiency that is putting the cattle on the market, but wealth? The wealthy man can do it but the poor man cannot.

The point is that, in this country, we do not stand for forms of totalitarianism. We hear complaints constantly that the Government has too much inspection, regulation and control of private enterprise, that we interfere to too great an extent with the farmer and the businessman, the manufacturer and the distributor in their businesses. Why not at least be consistent? One could ask the Government to clear out altogether and let the people do their own business in their own way and make whatever profit they can. That might not by any means be bad for the community. It might be a very good thing for the community, but let us not argue to-day that the Government is interfering, that there is too much State control, that the costs of the administration of schemes for industry and agriculture are beyond the capacity of the community to bear, and are not serving a useful purpose, and then come along and pretend that the Government, apparently by some further type of regulation, could get higher production.

Deputy Cogan, in his concluding remarks, was at least honest and straightforward when he said that the Government cannot by itself increase production. Surely, it is only the producers who can increase production. It is only the producers who can help us to get over the difficulties in regard to butter production, milk production, bacon production, bread and so on. Why do not Deputies turn their eloquent voices to the producers of this country and ask them to do their part? Why do they assume that the Government can do more than it has been doing? I should think that the Government, by undertaking so many things, has given rise to a certain complacency, a certain feeling among large and important sections of the community that all they have to do is to come to the good old milch cow——

She is a stripper, now.

——the national taxpayer, and make a strong enough case, kick up a sufficient row, and they will get more in the way of higher wages or higher prices, or whatever it may be. If we are not able to produce enough butter, enough bacon and enough beef for our own requirements at a reasonable price, what are our chances of being able to compete in the international market when the present abnormal situation passes? I wonder would the Deputies apply themselves and get those they represent to apply themselves to that particular problem.

Why not put it on the school curriculum?

We were always able to get enough bacon and enough beef and enough everything else until we got the present Government.

Deputy Morrissey conveniently forgets that we have been through a tremendous world war. He conveniently forgets that every country in the world is suffering from economic disturbance and that a power which established its commercial supremacy in the world by reason of its coal supply now finds that it cannot provide enought for its own requirements.

Mr. Morrissey

They were through the war; we were not.

And still Deputy Morrissey tries to get us to believe that the Government is responsible for shortages. Was there ever such tom-foolery or such humbug? These are the gentlemen who are parading the country preparing for elections, trying to get the people to believe that the Government is responsible for this situation when they know very well that these shortages are caused by a world situation and a world crisis.

They unblushingly and unashamedly go around touring the country whining and wailing. When they come in here, at least I hope that we will be given the opportunity of answering some of this campaign that is going on throughout the country in which both themselves and their organs of opinion have been so strenuous for some time past.

You will hear more.

This country—its economy and way of living—is based on private enterprise. The usual inducements to private enterprise, and the usual incentives, are profits. Let people say what they will about high profits and exorbitant profits, if we want to get people under that system of private enterprise to go out and do things, to produce more, to give more employment and help in that way to make a richer and a wealthier community and add to the national production, we must give them the incentive of making a profit. It is not through any system of Government control or regulation that you can get that. It is through making the producers feel that they are getting a fair deal, as I think we can claim they are getting at the present time. If there are any obstacles in their way, not due to their own fault, which are preventing them from increasing production, then they are due to causes that are outside their control and outside the Government's control.

We are asked about plans to implement agricultural production. Did anybody ever hear such nonsense, such an absolute removal from the realities of the situation? Through the past world war we have been subsidising the production of agricultural products formerly sold on the international market. We have had to subsidise them even though belligerents, greatly in need, wanted them, but they were not prepared to pay a remunerative or economic price for them. How long can we face that situation? We are now entering a period of peace and readjustment from that abnormal situation. If, in view of the demands there are at the present time when there is a scarcity of goods—intense demands from all directions for more and more goods at high prices, demands which there is no prospect of supplying within a reasonable time— and if producers, agricultural and otherwise, have not a sufficient incentive to meet the demands that are being made not only from outside but within the country for more and more goods at such very remunerative prices, and do not respond, what further action can the Government take or what further action do Deputies think the Government should take?

Yes, clear out, and leave it to Deputy Morrissey. Well, the Irish people will first want to know from the Deputy before they elect him and his friends to office how they are going to get over this world shortage of goods: how, by some wave of the hand, they are going to do what England, France, Holland, Belgium and all the rest have not been able to do.

One would imagine, listening to all this talk about the scarcity of feeding-stuffs, that there was no explanation for it. Everyone knows, or ought to know, that even during the first great war it was possible for Irish farmers to import feeding-stuffs from abroad. During that war hundreds of thousands of tons of maize were imported so that the farmer was able to keep his stock in proper condition. International trade was not disrupted to the extent that it has been in the recent war. In this war, so far as the consumption of fats is concerned, we were thrown entirely upon our own resources. We were not able to import from outside the things that we were able to import during the first great war. It was not possible for us to import feeding-stuffs either for human or animal consumption except to a very limited extent, and, consequently, there was a tremendous increase here in the consumption of milk and milk products. Deputies should look at the statistics and see what the increases have been, and what the increase in milk consumption has been in the Cities of Dublin and Cork. The dairymen who supplied these cities with milk during the emergency deserve the thanks of the community. I think that their efforts were absolutely extraordinary, having regard to the difficulties which they had to contend with—with the weather, with labour, the scarcity of feeding-stuffs and with transport. In spite of these difficulties, they succeeded in giving the people of Dublin an uninterrupted supply of milk during that period. People forget the benefits they have got though they wax very eloquent about the small and insignificant deficiencies that they have had to suffer. There are only two or three rationed commodities in this country. What is the position in every other European country at the present time? Do Deputies take the Irish people to be a lot of numbskulls who have no understanding or no appreciation of the situation elsewhere?

I can claim to have as good connection with the creamery industry as any other Deputy. It is not altogether the price of milk but it is labour difficulties that are turning the farmers from dairying. It is because the Government realised the genuine danger that farmers who kept fairly large herds—ten or 15 cows—might turn their backs completely on dairying that they had to take the tremendous decision of increasing butter prices in the way that they have increased them.

Deputies forget that the situation now is not what it was in 1929 or in 1939. We have beside us a country which has placed before itself, as its first task, the recovery of its position economically in the world and the building up of its export trade, which, on the other hand, is faced with a falling population and a depleted reserve of man-power, which is doing everything possible to build up that reserve, which cannot get workers, not only for its fields and mines, but for its factories. Therefore, there is naturally a tremendous attraction to get workers, not only from this country but from other countries, to come into British industry. That was not the situation in 1929 or in 1939.

Deputies talk of emigration. Emigration, unfortunately, was a normal feature of Irish life even since this Parliament was set up. I find that from 1923 to 1932 the net emigration was 221,000 persons, roughly 20,000 a year for the 11 years in question. That is a higher figure than even the adjusted figures given by the Minister for Finance for the seven war years.

Will the Minister tell us how many went out in 1930 and 1931?

Certainly.

The net emigration.

In 1923 the total net emigration was 28,473; 1924, 38,222; 1925, 32,419; 1926, 33,436; 1927, 29,377; 1928, 24,384; 1929, 25,289; 1930, 10,651; 1931, minus an inward balance of 1,861; 1932, 256.

It would be interesting from 1932 to 1947.

These are the figures.

It ceased in 1931.

I am not dealing with this in the narrow way that the Deputies have been trying to deal with the cost of living, the question of prices, the agricultural position and emigration, all from a narrow partisan, political Party point of view. They are not really interested in the solution of the problem, but when they have no constructive policy to offer the Irish people and when they know themselves that there is not the remotest chance of their being returned to office, what is more natural, when they have no policy to put before our people, than that they should use these arguments against the Government, to try to make our people believe that the Government is responsible for these things over which, in many cases, they have little, if any, control?

We always had emigration from this country. Deputy Blowick almost had tears in his eyes talking about the 1,800 or 2,000 emigrants for whom he succeeded in getting permits. It is not tears of sorrow but tears of anger that I almost feel when I hear Deputies— Labour Deputies too—asking why greater facilities are not given to enable people to leave this country, as if this country were not one of the first in the world at the present time as regards its general conditions as the people who are coming into it and who know what the conditions are elsewhere, will be the first to acknowledge. It is enough to drive one frantic to have to listen to the argument that there is some reason for people leaving this country and, when we have added to that the grotesque misrepresentation that the Government is driving them out of the country, could anything be more preposterous or further removed from the truth?

It is preposterous but not removed from the truth.

Deputy Blowick comes from near where I come from in the West of Ireland. I have seen parents coming there to the railway stations with tears in their eyes, sending off their children of 16 years to the United States of America so that they would send home money to them. Is there no consideration in this matter for the future of our whole community or of our position as a nation? Have we sunk to the level that the Opposition speakers, apparently, would like us to sink to, that it is only the amount of paper money that we can put into our pockets over in Great Britain that should count with us?

Did not you provide machinery through the labour exchanges to send them out? Did you not provide free offices for the English agents?

To provide machinery, to facilitate them, is one thing. One would imagine that Deputies wanted the Government to stop them going out. I object to this double-faced propaganda, this wailing and whining about emigration. The Deputies who are talking would be the first to condemn the Government if it attempted to interfere with the right of these people to sell their labour where they wish.

Give them work at home.

That was always the position. I object to this falseness that has been built up around this question of emigration. People have always emigrated from this country and probably always will emigrate. During the period that Deputy Morrissey refers to, when there was less emigration perhaps—I have not the figures by me—I do not know whether I am correct or not—than there was in the preceding period or in the succeeding period, what was the position? I read an article by a man who looked on these things as an observer and who was familiar with them.

We had the situation that our population was going down in the rural areas throughout the country, the numbers on our school rolls were declining, we had less marriages and later marriages, and we had homes in rural Ireland where we had three or four adult persons unmarried and with no definite future before them. They could not remain on the home farm. There was room for only one son there. They had to go somewhere else. Do these Deputies who have been criticising the Government's agricultural policy pretend that there is any system by which you can get employment for these people on the land in the congested districts? Even if you divided up all the land in Ireland into five or ten-acre farms, you could not provide enough for them in the country. You could, no doubt, if you were prepared to spend the necessary millions to do it, give them at least a chance of getting a better subsistence but you would have very violent opposition from the apostles of security of tenure and from the farming community and the rest of the community. These people have to get employment in industries, either at home or outside.

Deputy Blowick talked about forestry. Forestry is being dealt with at present on the Estimates, and I shall not go into the matter. In order that forestry should be successful you must have reasonably good land if you are to grow commercial timber. If you want to grow scrub timber you can grow it in many places, but if you are going out to grow commercial timber which will be useful for housing and other activities, then you want reasonably good land, reasonably good soil, well drained and well protected.

The difficulty is to get the land. With the high prices that agricultural products are fetching and the enormous prices that land is fetching, is there not a good reason why the Minister for Lands cannot proceed more quickly with the acquisition of land, either for afforestation or for land division than at present? If there are farmers, a Chinn Chomhairle, who claim that they need assistance from the Government to enable them to get properly into production surely the Government has provided ample facilities. There is the Agricultural Credit Corporation. There is the farm improvements scheme. Do they want the Government to go in on the farm, as I said before, and do all the work? What is the alternative? If this community is going to depend in the long run upon private enterprise and private industry, is it not the position that every citizen must realise that if he is going to maintain his standard of living he has to provide for himself by his own labour? If we are going to stand on that and make a success of it, if we are going to increase our national wealth, if we are going to increase our standard of living and improve it on that basis, we will have to address ourselves to the private producer.

The position in rural areas at the present time is that there is a tremendous demand for labour. There are tremendous arrears of work to be made up on the roads. The Minister for Local Government has the most grave anxiety about getting the roads of the country into a better condition as soon as possible, because they have reached the position that if not taken drastically in hands and improved they will deteriorate as, in the nature of things, property will, if not attended to at a much greater speed.

This year, owing to the coal crisis in Great Britain, there has been thrown upon the county councils which are undertaking the work during the present year the enormous task of trying to increase the turf supply which will be available for the national pool, and upon which the cities will depend, from 350,000 tons, which was their normal production, to 600,000 tons. The position at the present time is that we are well behind the supply we had last year. We have no reserves as we had then. We are starting with a much greater handicap. We have a much more serious problem in front of us, because last year, at any rate, we did not know what the winter was going to bring. We did not make provision. There is certainly not much advantage in the present situation. We all should realise the seriousness of it this year. To expect that coal will be made available in any greater quantities than is the case at present would be foolish. That situation is not one that will be remedied for a very long time indeed, if ever. We have to turn our minds now to the development of our peat resources in a way we never before thought would be necessary. In fact, we are going to be almost completely dependent, as far as private consumers and a large number of our industries are concerned, upon turf. The labour has to be provided for that.

Will Deputy Blowick or any of the other Deputies who are familiar with the emigration problem in the rural areas in the West of Ireland tell me for one moment that this turf policy of the Government has been, as Deputy Hughes says, a failure? The Deputy on the Opposition Front Benches who, I take it, represents agriculture and the rural population has the temerity to tell us—he must take his own opinions with the same levity as I hope the public will take them—that the wheat policy and the turf policy of the Government have been failures. I wish the Deputy would get from some of his friends in the turf-producing areas some idea of the amount of money that has gone into these areas, aye, and into individual households as a result of turf production. We do not hear that side of the case, when we hear the wailing and weeping about the poor emigrants who are being driven over to England by this terrible Government. We do not hear of the work that is to be done on the roads, on the bogs, or in agriculture—if not in the congested areas certainly in other parts of the country where there is a very keen demand. Neither have we recalled to our minds, and I think it should be recalled to the minds of the public more frequently, that the single man and woman in Great Britain at the present time will be paying in income-tax £9 10s. against the £3 5s. that the Irish taxpayer with the same income will be paying. It will not be all beer and skittles by any means over there. Cigarettes, beer, entertainment and clothing, unless they keep to the rather austere brands that have been provided, will cost them a great deal more. Would the Deputies not be well occupied, if they are interested in the problem of emigration, in putting the other aspect of the case before the public? Of course they are too busy making the narrow Party case against a Government so long in office as this Government is. Perhaps it is easy to make a case against a Government with such a long period of office behind it. I am quite sure that when the time comes when a new Government is brought in, the Irish people will judge not on false propaganda and misrepresentation but on a policy of a constructive character. The Government, as I said in the beginning, are not prophets. They cannot say what the trend of events is likely to be. It cannot be argued that lack of money is responsible for holding up any projects. There are physical causes.

I heard a Deputy saying this evening that there were no constructive ideas in the Budget. One would imagine that the Minister for Finance had nothing else to do but produce constructive ideas for debating purposes. Last year he produced the most constructive idea that had been produced for a very long time in the shape of the Transition Development Fund, and stated that up to £5,000,000 would be available for urgent work if local authorities and other authorities would come forward and ask for assistance. Deputies have no right to get up and criticise the Government for not pushing forward these projects when the money is available if people had only the initiative and the enterprise to come and look for it. Probably those who have the energy and the enterprise to make a success of whatever businesses they may be engaged in feel that they do not want that. But, at least, when we hear references to housing, drainage and such activities which seem to come within the orbit of local authorities, we are entitled to ask what the local authorities have done to take advantage of the magnificent offer the Minister for Finance made them.

What about forestry? Where are the physical difficulties there?

The Deputy was not listening to me. I cannot time my speeches to suit Deputy Davin's rather irregular attendances at the debates in this House. If the Deputy gives me notice when he is coming here again——

On a point of order. Will you see, Sir, that more than three Fianna Fáil Deputies will listen to the Deputies?

That is not a point of order. The Minister dealt with forestry earlier.

I am asking for a count of the House in order to get his own Deputies in.

Notice taken that 20 Deputies were not present; House counted, and 20 Deputies being present,

I have stated that it is difficult to see what further any fairminded person could believe the Government could do to increase production. I have referred to rural conditions, the farm improvements scheme and other schemes. We have the tremendous rural electrification scheme which will eventually, I hope, give electric light and power to some 80 per cent., at any rate, of our rural population. Every possible provision that the Government can make has been made, financially and administratively, for that scheme. If the materials which we cannot manufacture ourselves cannot be got, if machinery for drainage cannot be got, then the Government, of course, is to be blamed, and the Minister for Finance in particular is to be blamed.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle took the Chair.

Deputies passed over very lightly the reduction in interest upon loans from the Local Loans Fund from 4¼ to 2½ per cent. If housing is taken up, as I hope it will soon be possible to take it up, on a more extensive scale by local authorities, the benefits of that in the reduction of rents that would otherwise be necessary will be enormous and, even in individual cases, will be very substantial. The Minister has tried to encourage thrift by seeing that the small investor, who may be in a position owing to the volume of money in circulation to put some away for a harder time, will get a return on it of 2½ per cent. or so with no tax payable up to a limit of £500 for each individual deposit. In that way, through the encouragement of thrift, these small depositors will be doing good for themselves and for their families, will be saving for the future and putting money aside. They will also be assisting the Government and assisting the community to finance those schemes.

I have only to say, in conclusion, that there are serious difficulties in front of us, and that there will be serious difficulties until normal conditions are restored in the world. It is folly and useless to pretend that any Government here can get over difficulties over which, as Deputies know very well, it has no control. To the extent that it has control over them, let the Opposition criticise the Government for not making better use of its opportunities. But let them not say that, in a country which every objective critic knows to be in a better position than any other country of its size at the present time, in suffering whatever little hardships we have we are suffering something enormous. To continue on that line would give our people a false picture of the situation, would make them complacent, and would create a serious situation later on, when more difficult times must naturally occur, when prices must eventually fall, when that flush of money to which most people are accustomed at present will no longer be there, and when it will not be possible for them to spend so lavishly or maintain the standard to which they have been accustomed. I hope it will be very long removed, but if there is any danger whatever that there should be a regression or a depression through a fall in world prices or some other situation such as gave rise to the intense depression 20 years ago, then we ought to prepare for it by telling our people that in the long run the community depends upon the character of its individual citizens, upon their industry, upon their foresight, upon their appreciation of the national situation and of their own situation, and not on a haphazard, lackadaisical frame of mind that takes the good when it comes and makes no provision for the evil, should it by any chance come later on. We would be preaching a very bad gospel indeed to our people if we were to do that.

I trust that, even at this late hour of the day, my words may have some small effect on the Deputies who have been trying to persuade us that we are terribly badly off and that, where we have deficiencies or difficulties or inconveniences, it is the Government that is to blame, it is the Government that has not taken steps to remedy the situation. Let us get away from that and get on to a constructive policy and, if there are things that have to be done in rural or urban Ireland by way of development of our resources or the building up of our industries or the keeping of our people in employment, let us examine them from the point of view of what can be done in present circumstances.

I sat out the whole of the speech of the Minister for Education and his advent into the debate made me wonder if it foreshadowed in any degree any contemplated changes in the Ministry, because I had the feeling half-way through his speech that he was proving to be a very apt understudy of the Minister for Finance.

I think, when everything is said and done, that the Minister for Finance cannot possibly improve on the apology that has been made by the Minister for Education for some of the things that have been left out of the Budget. In order to relieve financially some very deserving sections of the community, the Minister quite frankly and almost brutally said that it would represent extra taxation to the amount of over £2,500,000. At least he was quite frank and honest and the people know what they have to face. The Minister, in looking about for ways and means to raise that amount of money, picked on three or four commodities, but there were two in particular, the tax on cigarettes and the tax on tobacco—the cigarette smokers' and the pipe smokers' taxes. I have the feeling that the relief given, whether it is by way of income-tax or otherwise, will be shouldered by the man who has to pay more money for his cigarettes and his tobacco. It is like feeding a dog with a bit of its own tail. The man who smokes 20 cigarettes a day will pay 1/9 per week extra towards the Exchequer. I do not see how the Minister can call that good finance, because it reacts most unfavourably on the individual. I do not think it will be such a very popular Budget as the Minister would like us to believe.

Under another heading he speaks of the pensions and gratuities of civil servants. Those, too, are a very deserving section of the community. The Minister says in that connection that he has commitments which will cost the taxpayer something like £250,000. The persons affected will in some way be relieved to learn that they will get an extra gratuity or pension to meet the increased cost of living, but here again it is like the dog feeding on a bit of its own tail; they, too, will be contributing a very substantial amount by way of extra taxation in order to enjoy any little amenities they may be able to get as a result of the Budget.

Certain adjustments are made in Garda pensions and by way of additional Army pay. These things are all necessary, but here again those very people, the Garda and Army pensioners, will have to pay through the increased taxation on their tobacco and cigarettes.

The most deserving section of the community has not been treated at all well by the Minister for Finance in this Budget. I refer to old age pensioners. They have got an increase of 2/6 a week, which does not represent a whole lot when you consider that those old people like to enjoy a pipe or a cigarette, too. Nothing appears to have been done for the aged. The pensioner gets 12/6 a week, an increase of 2/6 with which, everybody will admit, it is impossible at the present time to keep the wolf from the door.

We have another deserving section of the community not thought of by the Minister either directly or indirectly. I refer to certain workers in municipalities, corporations, etc. I have in mind particularly what occurs under the Cork Corporation. Labourers reaching a certain age are put off and they do not get any pensions. There are cases where men may get 10/- a week for a short period, until they reach 70 years, and then they are told to look for the old age pension. If a decent employer gives his worker a pension of 15/- a week the State will give him only 1/-. That certainly does not encourage a decent employer to give reasonably good pensions to his employees.

Nobody begrudges the extra pay to the Army or the Garda, but there are other sections of the community who deserve consideration and they have not been even thought of and it does not seem that they will be given any consideration in the legislation we are promised.

While the Minister has undoubtedly made a gesture towards people with small incomes—a fairly good gesture under the circumstances—at the same time no attempt has been made to help the under-dog, the man who is living from hand to mouth. I refer to the old age pensioners and working men who, having reached 65 or 70, are thrown on the scrap heap and left to fend for themselves on the State pension of 12/6 a week.

The Minister for Education was amazingly aggressive in his speech, in the course of which, referring to emigration, he taunted the Labour members in particular with advocating facilities so that members of the community here could go outside the country in order to seek the employment which is denied them here. What else would anybody do? What is the alternative? Is it to keep them here and allow them to depend on home assistance, unemployment assistance or other relief of that character which is euphemistically termed on occasions a social service? I think the Minister will not deny the accuracy of this statement, that my experience here is obviously the experience of every other Deputy, including Deputies on the Government Benches; that is. that of the correspondence which I receive daily as a public representative, nearly one-third relates to applications from decent individuals asking me to try to find employment for them. That is my position and I venture to say it is the Minister's own position. It is idle for him to refer to any explanation or excuse such as that there was a war in progress for the past seven years because, unfortunately, the statistics since the State was set up, will give an answer to that as they show a round figure of about 70,000 people unemployed every year.

On the question of emigration, I think the Minister made his weakest point this afternoon. Members on this side last year referred to the figure which they thought to be the correct figure at that time but the Minister for Finance described it as grossly absurd. He has now found it necessary himself to correct this figure to the tune of some 32,000 and has indicated that the figure was 120,000 over the eight-year period. That is the criterion of the country's prosperity, the point on which the Minister for Education waxed loudest. So long as you have that pool of unemployment existing in this country, not all the schemes enumerated by the Minister for Finance can hide the fact that we are on a downward course economically in this country.

The Minister referred to one point of particular interest to me when he went on to taunt Deputies associated with local authorities that they have not shown sufficient energy or vision to make use of an institution incorporated in the Finance Act of last year, namely, the institution known as the Transition Development Fund. I presume that the Minister for Education was referring to the fact that of the £5,000,000 set aside for that purpose, only £56,480 was expended. While the Minister to-night stated that £1,500,000 was apparently promised and would be paid when the work specified had been carried out, my complaint is that the position is the very reverse of that set out by the Minister for Education. The public authority with which I am associated cannot be accused of want of energy or lack of vision so far as this fund is concerned. We were delighted when we discovered that it had application back to the period 1945-46. During that period we were possibly the only municipality or local authority engaged in what might be called an intensive housing campaign. Our housing programme was carried out on a lower scale than that carried out in previous years but, fortunately, we had 600 houses on which we could claim as coming within the ambit of this fund, and bringing it back to November, 1945, a claim has been lodged by the corporation for 890 of these houses. Not one penny of that money has yet been paid to the Dublin Corporation. Therefore, so far as we are concerned, we have endeavoured to take advantage of the fund. There may be reasons for the delay in payment but the delay has definitely taken place. The application has been made but so far that money has not been paid over. It represents, if I assume that the grant will be on the basis of £250 a house, roughly, £250,000, so far as the Dublin Corporation is concerned, a material consideration for the municipality in connection with a large housing scheme.

There is one aspect of the many matters which I want to address to the Minister of which I should like him to take note in order that he might give me the benefit of his advice in relation to the disposition of that money when it reaches the Dublin Corporation. The point of view is held in certain quarters that it will have to be credited to the housing capital account, in which event this amount will go to reduce future borrowings. I hold the view personally—I know the Finance Act is against me—that, in equity, a proportion of that sum should go into the revenue account of the corporation for the relief of rates —for the reason that the corporation provides annually a substantial sum to meet the deficit on its housing programme or, in effect, the amount which is necessary to make up the deficit between what the tenants pay, the Government subsidy and the economic rents of the houses. In round figures this year, that sum so far as the City of Dublin is concerned would be £352,000, the equivalent of a rate of 3/- in the £.

By the way, as indicating the relative contributions of the State and the municipality, so far as the clearance of slums is concerned, may I say that the State contribution envisaged in the coming year, as against the figure of £325,000 which I have given, will be £189,000? Roughly, the municipality contribution is 60 per cent. higher than that of the State. Having taken cognisance of the State contribution and the money derived from our rentals, we are still in debt on our housing account each year—this year, as I say, to the extent of £325,000, involving a rate of 3/- in the £. I suggest, therefore, and I would ask the Minister to see if there is any possibility of giving effect to the suggestion, that when this money comes from the Transition Development Fund, cognisance will be taken of the fact that our housing programme is being implemented annually with the aid of this heavy contribution from the rates. To that extent, I say it would be helpful to the corporation—I am bound to say that the official view is against me in that respect —and it would be in the nature of a windfall to the corporation funds, if that money could be divided in the manner I suggest.

On the question of housing generally, reference has been made to a position which is likely not to improve, so far as we can see, within the next 12 months or within the next two years because of the shortage of materials. Even so, within the limits of the amount of housing that can be carried out, may I suggest to the Minister that the time is long past when there should be a drastic revision of the scale of housing grants under the Housing Act of 1932? The Minister is aware that the subsidy contribution will not be paid above a figure of £500. Pre-war our cottages were costing in the region of £650 or £700. That meant that the municipality had to bear the full burden as between the ceiling figure of £500 and the actual cost of £650 or £700. Our latest estimates for these cottages run to the figure of £1,100. Even allowing for what would be regarded as a substantial subsidy from the Transition Development Fund of £250 per house—I am bound to say it will be very acceptable—there is still a wide difference to be bridged to bring us back to the position that was envisaged in the Act of 1932. Reference has been made to it by the representatives of almost every public authority in this House for years past, and we were told that the matter was under consideration. I suggest to the Minister that local authorities ought to know definitely where they stand, assuming, of course, that they are in a position to get into their stride with regard to a housing programme. It is of particular interest to us, because we are the municipality engaged on the biggest housing scheme, and necessarily so because of the problem facing us in the City of Dublin.

On the Budget itself, I have only to say that we on this side are disappointed that, contrary to what we thought would be the position, income-tax reliefs on the personal side are not much greater. The position from the Government point of view is somewhat illogical, because only recently they had drastically to revise salaries in relation to the cost of living. In the case of a person in the Civil Service in 1939 on a basic salary of £70, or a gross salary of £120, that salary has been pushed up to something like £200 under the stabilisation scheme, and even that measure of improvement is not suggested as being sufficient to offset the cost of living completely, but it was a fair indication of what the Government felt they should do. As against that, however, the only relief which that person gets is an increase of £20, which bears no relation whatever to the increased cost of living. We are, therefore, disappointed. We had hoped that because of the sky-rocketing of prices, particularly in the City of Dublin and the general lowered purchasing power of money, the reliefs would have been on a higher scale.

The point touched on by Deputy Anthony, the Minister's reference to a revision of civil servants' pensions and gratuities, is one which interests all members of the House and his announcement will be received with pleasure by all members of the House. I take it that it refers only to those who were originally paid on a cost-of-living bonus basis, and what I should like to know is how will that section who were on inclusive salaries and who retired during the standstill period and who, were it not for the standstill Order, would have got substantial increases to meet the cost of living, fare under this revision? Will any amelioration come their way? I might point out to the Minister that it affects more than his staffs. There are other bodies outside whose actions with regard to superannuation are related to the Civil Service, so that this matter is of importance to people other than those who retired from the Civil Service.

Again on the questions of pensions generally, there has been agitation outside, and it has been given expression to on various motions in the House, that the Minister might take the opportunity of reviewing the position, which is regarded as critical, of such people as pensioners of public authorities and indeed pensioners of private employers, who were retired during the war years and who have got no increase whatever in the amounts they receive. I suggest that the position of these people might have had consideration from the Government. Such an action on the part of the Government might set a good example for employers generally.

The position of national teachers was debated at considerable length only a short time ago. I think an unanswerable case was made by all sections of the House in that respect. An appeal was made to the Minister for Education on that occasion to ensure that that section—it might have been a difficult matter at the time, but the appeal was made—should be taken out of the category of pensioners as a whole. It was admitted that a good case was made for these people and it is disappointing that apparently no recognition of their peculiar position is given by the Budget. I had the pleasure of being on a deputation of these ex-teachers, and, while it was perfectly true that the Minister for Finance did not hold out any hope on that particular issue, he did say he would put the case before the Government. I should like to know if, in fact, the case has been put before the Government, and more particularly if the Minister for Education pleaded with the same zeal as he showed in his speech this evening for that section of his staff in the matter of increased pensions.

The Minister in his Budget statement said that he had acceded to the demand of the Minister for Education in respect of teachers in small schools, and it would be interesting to know if any plea was made for the old national teachers, and particularly for those of them who, admittedly, are in receipt of pensions which are grossly inadequate to keep them on any decent scale of respectability at present, as well as the 600 lady teachers who were thrown out following an Order of the Government relating to unemployment, so far as women teachers were concerned at the time. The question of national teachers was stressed on that occasion, and I think, because of what has transpired since, we are entitled to ask the Minister if any cognisance was taken of their particular case and why it is it has not received mention in his Budget speech.

There is a greater and graver disappointment in that the position of old age pensioners has not been adverted to, and in that connection may I say that the recent increase of half-a-crown brought about a very poor change in the position of the old age pensioner? In this respect, I must be a very bad prophet, because last year I ventured to say to my friends that the accounts for the coming year would be of such a character as would enable the Minister to deal in a sympathetic and adequate way with the old age pensioners. My prophecy on that occasion has not been fulfilled, but I did feel that the merits of the case would be admitted and that the fact that they are an important section of the community might also be taken into consideration. However, they and I are disappointed, as I am sure the House is disappointed. We may talk of social services as we please and of the fact that a sum of £12,000,000 is specially earmarked for these services in the Budget, but one can measure the value of social services of this character by the fact that the pittance which a major section of those for whom they are provided, old age pensioners, is something like 12/6 a week, when it costs £2 2s. 0d. a week to maintain an individual in a public institution.

In the closing parts of the Minister's Budget statement, he used very neatly phrased language in endeavouring to give what he described as a fair idea of our way of life, of how we wished to live, to any intelligent outsider and he went on to indicate the various allocations in the Budget—£12,000,000 for social services, and so on. That concluding statement by the Minister is very neatly phrased but that intelligent outsider, whoever he might be, might get a clearer and more accurate picture of the economic position of the country if he were told that, notwithstanding the various citations in the statement, there are 70,000 unemployed; that that is not a figure of to-day or yesterday but a constant figure; that 120,000 of our people have been leaving for seven or eight years; that that figure is continuing, because they cannot get work; that thousands of our people are in receipt of home assistance and unemployment assistance; and that one of the principal sections of our agricultural personnel is forced down to a low level of income of much less than £3 per week. I suggest to the Minister, to the Government and to the intelligent outsider that it is by that standard the country's present position should be adjudged.

It is not often that we have the pleasure of listening to the Minister for Education. We listened to him this afternoon for a period longer than his colleague, the Minister for Finance, took to read his Budget statement. I have heard a great number of speeches in this House and I think I can say that I have heard a fair amount of nonsense talked from the opposite benches during the past 15 years. Anything to beat the speech to which we listened to-day for over an hour from the Minister for Education would be hard to find. The British Government, the French Government and the Belgian Government are responsible for the situation here, but the Irish Government is not. The farmers and their workers, according to the Minister for Education, are responsible for the shortages of beef, bacon, mutton, eggs and practically every article that is normally produced on the land, but the Government are entirely blameless. If anybody on this side ventures to suggest that the Government are in the least degree responsible for the present state of the country, he is merely playing Party politics.

Towards the end of his speech the Minister delivered himself of a lecture to the community. He warned them against allowing themselves to be carried away by the present position.

He pointed out the dangers of lavish spending to a community some of whom are trying to exist on sums as small as 10/- a week. The man who warns the community against lavish spending is the man who stands for the biggest Budget with which this country was ever faced. The cost of running the country in the coming 12 months will be, at least, £70,000,000. We are talking about increases. That represents an increase in national taxation since the present Government came into office of over 200 per cent. What has the community got for it? We have lost a substantial part of our human population. We have lost a very considerable part of our animal population. A considerable part of the fertility of our soil has gone. Then, we are told that the Government are entirely blameless, that they are not responsible for the fact that the population is falling and that they are not responsible for the fact that live stock here is as scarce as it is in any of the countries which were devastated during seven years of war. I venture to say that there are European countries to which we have sent live stock and beef in the past two years that are in no worse position, from that point of view, than we ourselves are to-day.

The position of this agricultural country to-day is dismissed by the Minister for Education with the statement that we ought to be ashamed of complaining of the insignificant shortages of foodstuffs and other essential commodities. They may be very insignificant to the Minister but the shortages of food, fuel and other things are by no means insignificant to the average citizen. The Minister has the nerve to come here and lecture the Opposition on their duty. I want somebody at some stage to point out what this country has gained nationally after 15 years of government by the opposite Party. This is the 15th or 16th Fianna Fáil Budget—each one worse than the other. Side by side with the 200 per cent. increase in national taxation, we have the national debt over £100,000,000 and we have local taxation increased by 100 per cent. What have we got for it? What have we to show for it? Have we more people or more production or are the people better off so far as real wealth is concerned? Even the Minister for Education does not make that claim. Neither does the Minister for Finance. The Minister admits that the standard to-day is not as high as was that of 1938—and it was not very high even then. I want an answer to that question: what has the country or the average citizen got for the £70,000,000?

Reference has been made to the old age pensioners. Ministers, when it suits them, tell us that the £70,000,000, or £61,000,000, as they choose to put it, really represents only half that sum because the £ is worth only 10/-. Ministers do not admit that when they are dealing with old age pensioners. Instead of giving them at least 100 per cent. increase on the pension which they got from the foreigner, they give them a 25 per cent. increase—2/6.

Our position to-day is due, in the main, to the complete and absolute muddling and incompetence of the Government opposite—aggravated in certain aspects, undoubtedly, by the events of the last seven or eight years. One of the main reasons why our livestock position is as it is to-day is that we slaughtered 500,000 calves under Government policy; and to-day, under the Government's nose and under the nose of the Department of Agriculture, calves are being slaughtered wholesale throughout the country. What is being done about it? Nothing. Every Deputy knows that calves are being slaughtered wholesale and nothing is being done about it by the Government. Of course, it is all put down to the war, just as every shortage this year went down to the eight weeks' snow. I know that the weather and the war aggravated the position—there is no question about that—but to suggest that the war and the weather are entirely responsible is completely wrong.

The Minister for Education has the nerve to make comparisons between us and Great Britain and suggests that we are no worse off than Great Britain. He asks me have I forgotten that there was a war for seven years. Does he forget that Britain was in the war for seven years and we were out of it? He compares the state of this country with the state of Belgium and Holland. I wish the Government opposite would take a leaf out of the Dutch Government's book, as to how they faced up to the matter. I wish the Minister for Finance were able to make the reductions in the cost of running this country that Governments engaged for seven years in the war were able to make in their budgets. We are told—and it is accepted by certain people in this House and certain people outside, including newspapers that ought to have more sense—that this is a Budget for which we ought to be thankful. The Minister is being kind to the shorn lamb. What are we to be thankful for —thankful for the fact that an additional £5,500,000 is to be taken out of the taxpayer's pocket this year, over and above the record figure of last year, thankful for the fact that the Minister takes £3 out of the citizen's right-hand pocket by his tobacco and cigarettes tax and gives back £1 to the pocket out of which he pays income tax, if he is under a certain level? We have relief of income-tax to the tune of £900,000, but a piling on of a cigarette and tobacco tax that will bring into the Exchequer £2,500,000, and over £3,000,000 in a full year.

What justification do we get for it, what is the explanation of the increase? Social services! The words "social services" are trumpeted from that side, as if that was something to be proud of instead of something to be ashamed of, as if it were showing a strength in the national position instead of a weakness. We have reduced our population to well under 3,000,000, but small and all as it is, we are not able to provide a living for them. A considerable section of them are mendicant and treated as such by the Government opposite, living on charity disguised under the name of social services. That is the sort of nonsense we are asked to swallow and the people outside are expected to swallow. Perhaps it is hard to blame the Ministers opposite for expecting the people outside to swallow that kind of nonsense. I admit they have been swallowing it for a great number of years and the gentlemen opposite got away with it. When an effort is made to expose that, the Minister squeals that it is not fair, that it is not playing the national game, that it is not patriotic, that we ought to pat the Government on the back and say they are great fellows who have improved the position of the country and the people enormously.

We ought to clap the Minister for Finance for piling on another £5,500,000, over and above last year. What has he to show for it? I heard many extraordinary speeches from the far side in the last two years, but I have heard few to equal that delivered by the Minister for Education. Listening to the views which he put forth and the ideas to which he gave expression here, one can readily and easily understand why this country is in its present position, when men of that type have been in charge for the last 15 or 16 years. The Minister, a man who would not talk in a Party spirit, a man who wanted to be extremely fair, who was trying to deal with whatever had been said from this side of the House about emigration, wanted to talk about emigration for the ten years of the first Government of this country. He gave an aggregate figure for the ten years and I asked him to give the figures, year by year, up to and including 1931 and 1932; and, against the whispered advice of his colleague the Minister for Finance, he gave them, let it be said to his credit—and what did they disclose? They disclosed that, in the last year in which Mr. Cosgrave was President or head of the Government, after ten year of his Government, for the first time in the century more people came into this country than left it and emigration had ceased.

The Minister did not go on and give the figures from 1932 to 1947, as they would disclose that emigration began again with the advent of Fianna Fáil and the longer Fianna Fáil was in office the bigger the figure grew, until we have the state to-day that this country which, according to the Minister is a paradise compared with Britain, a land flowing with milk and honey compared with Britain, is losing its young men and women. The Minister cannot understand why anybody is so insane as to wish to leave this country and go to Britain, to pay three times the income-tax he has to pay here and where there is no beer or skittles. He cannot understand it, yet the hard fact is that they are going in increasing numbers and, if it were not for the fact that the Government has prohibited those in rural areas from going away, if they are supposed to have any knowledge of agriculture or turf or other rural work, the numbers would be far greater indeed. Is it because they prefer to work in England rather than at home; is it because they prefer to go down into the bowels of the earth to work in the mines rather than work in God's fresh air in the fields of this country, that they are going? Of course, it is not—and the Minister knows that.

Then he talked about the grave anxiety with which his colleague, the Minister for Local Government, looks upon the state of the roads. He says there is no necessity for them to go and that the Minister for Local Government is gravely concerned to keep them at home. He was so gravely concerned to keep them at home and see that our roads were made and maintained, that he kept them on a starvation wage for seven years. They are now given, grudgingly, an increase of 1/- a week at a time when the Minister for Local Government is gravely anxious about the state of the roads and about not having the man-power to produce the turf that is required.

The Minister for Education asked us to face up to those national problems in a serious and a grave way. I throw that back to him, and I ask him, if he intervenes in debates of this kind on future occasions, to face up to those problems in a grave and serious way. He talked about the position in the country being serious. It is. He repeated some of the words used by the Minister for Finance yesterday, and talked about the possibility or the probability of a fall in the cost of living and of things being cheaper a year hence than they are now. Is there any tittle of evidence to support that hope? Is not all the evidence that we have to the contrary? He taunted Deputy Hughes with having referred to the fact that the Government's wheat scheme and its peat scheme were not a success. But that is true. Let us remember that these schemes were initiated nearly 15 years ago. If the projects are as sound as we were told 15 years ago they were, why have we the present situation? At that time the Government told us that we could, without much effort, produce enough wheat and peat to meet our own requirements. That statement was made time after time inside and outside this House. If the resources are there to enable us to produce wheat and peat, then we should have been able to produce enough of both in the 15 years that have elapsed, and if we did not do so the fault must be due to the incapacity of the Government. But what are the facts? The Government have been in office for 15 years, and while I give them full credit for endeavouring to produce our entire requirements in wheat, the fact is that even in the most favourable year that we struck during those 15 years, we did not produce more than 50 per cent. of our requirements in wheat. In the case of peat, we did not even produce that much.

I did not ever denounce wheat growing or peat production. I saw that there were difficulties in the way and I did not choose to ignore them. The difficulties are still there. I make full allowance for the fact that those difficulties were aggravated by the war. I agree with the Minister for Education in this, that in relation to wheat growing there were factors in the situation which were completely outside the control of the Government, factors mainly in relation to the procurement of manures. But, the Government have been a long period in office. They have had an unprecedented over-all majority in an absolutely free country, with no power inside or outside to interfere with them, and, according to the Minister for Education, with unlimited money at their disposal. With all that, the best picture that can be painted in relation to this country is that which was presented to us yesterday by the Minister for Finance in his Budget statement. The Government had absolute power. There was nobody to challenge them, inside or outside the country, and they had unlimited money at their disposal, and with all that, we see what the results have been after 15 years' experience.

The Minister for Education talked about the Opposition and about what they are going to put before the country as to why they should be put in office and the present Government put out. The people, I think, know what the policy of the Opposition is. The Minister for Education had the nerve to warn us on this side that the community are not going to be deceived by propaganda and false promises. My God! Fianna Fáil talking about the community being deceived by propaganda and false promises! They rode in here in 1932 on the most lying campaign of propaganda that was ever carried out in this or any other country. The false promises are too old and too stale even to repeat. I can give the Minister, his colleagues and the community the assurance that there is no Party on this side of the House, and I doubt if there is another Party in Europe, that can ever compete with Fianna Fáil when it comes to false promises and lying propaganda.

There is nothing in this Budget except the usual thing —disappointment. We have been told that this is the second Budget that has been introduced by the Minister for Finance, and the 15th Budget by the Fianna Fáil Party. That is true. It is also true that it is the 15th Budget that shows a constant rise in taxation, with little explanation given for that rise, together with a decrease in production and in population. One could understand an increase in the annual Budget if we also had an increase in production and in our population. The increase in taxation which we have been having over a period of years should demand careful consideration and attention, and should be explained to us by the Minister and the Government, because, as Deputy Morrissey said, when they rode into power, they rode in on a promise, based on their determined criticism of the previous Government of extravagant expenditure, that expenditure would be reduced considerably. Now we find, after a period of 15 years, that expenditure has increased three-fold since the coming into power of the present Government. If, as we were then told, the people were weighed down under the burden of expenditure, that their backs were bent, that they were facing bankruptcy, how must the country be now?

I regret that I was not here to hear the Minister for Education abusing this side of the House for criticising the Government and Government policy in general. He is supposed to have said that we were misrepresenting the Government inside and outside this House. Could it be possible for us to misrepresent the Government inside or outside this House in the way in which the previous Government were misrepresented by them before they took office? Everything which they suggested that they could and would do, they have never done.

We find that a large percentage of the money asked for in the Budget is in respect of salaries and increases. The Minister has condescended to increase the old age pensioner's weekly allowance by 2/6 but if he has, he has increased the cost of the only luxury that the old age pensioner can have to help to pass his days in comfort, that is, tobacco. He has put an extra 3d. per ounce on tobacco. In the Budget statement the Minister told the House that out of tobacco he will get for a whole year £2,605,000 and out of entertainment duty, he will get for a whole year £400,000, and out of stamp duty he will get for a whole year £135,000. According to my calculation, that brings in £3,140,000, but according to the Minister's reckoning, it brings in £2,955,000. I think there is a clerical error there or else I am wrong in my addition. He then goes on to say, "which will cover the deficit of £813,000 and still leave me £2,142,000 in surplus". Why the surplus? If the Minister is going to have a surplus of almost £2,250,000, why tax tobacco to the extent of bringing in £2,896,000? I do not think it is essential, and I think it is very unfair of the Minister to tax the only luxury of the man in the street and the working man. I would ask the Minister to take a note of that point, and to enlighten me, as I expect he will, if he has an explanation.

The Minister referred to glass houses for the Gaeltacht and told us how interested his colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, is in helping these people to live in the congested areas of Connemara where there is an unproductive type of land. I would like the Minister to tell me why it is that he has set out a certain specific number of farmers; who are to select these farmers; will they be allowed to make application or will there be a special selection? The provision of £100,000 for glass houses and poultry houses is a very small provision out of £69,000,000.

Taking into consideration the neglect and the lack of interest displayed by this Government over the past 15 years in relation to people living on the western seaboard, it is indeed a very small sum, and hardly worth mentioning. If that is all the Minister can do for people in the Gaeltacht areas, it is very little indeed. There was no necessity for the Minister to use such strong language when referring to this miserable sum of money out of the £69,000,000 which these people will have to contribute to in the form of taxation.

The Minister referred to the Transition Development Fund. I understand that his colleague, the Minister for Education, made a reference something to this effect that provision was made for housing and drainage out of the Transition Development Fund in last year's Budget, and that the local authorities show no desire to avail of the fund is proof of their inactivity or their failure to play their part. The Minister tells us that the Transition Development Fund was a new idea and that it is wrong to blame the Government for not making provision, seeing that one of the most up-to-date provisions introduced in any Budget, namely, the Transition development Fund, has not been availed of. The Minister used the words "housing" and "drainage". If the Minister is really serious about drainage or if his colleague is serious about drainage, how is it that in this Budget there is no reference to drainage? A Bill was passed through this House some years ago for a drainage scheme and I am sure it is now lying in its own weight in dust in some pigeon-hole of the Board of Works. We hear no reference made to the putting into effect of that scheme of drainage.

An Ceann Comhairle took the Chair.

If the Minister states that this £5,000,000 is set aside for the purpose of housing and drainage or for any other constructive proposal which may come forward from the local authority, how is it that the Minister has not now made use of it and included in his Estimates a certain amount for drainage and for the repair of damage? From time to time, Sir, we have asked questions in this House in relation to drainage and to damage arising out of flooding caused by the failure of the Government to tackle the drainage problem and to have it settled once and for all. We have been given to understand that there were reasons why that has not been done. The reasons given are not sufficient, and we on this side of the House do not accept them. If the Minister now wants to utilise this money why not utilise it or turn it over to the local authority in my constituency or in my county and they will very quickly use it for drainage?

The Minister must recognise, in relation to housing, that even if the local authorities in the City of Dublin or elsewhere desired to avail of this money for the development or the construction of housing they have not the material and in many instances they have not the skilled labour. Who is to be blamed for the lack of material, the shortage of material, and the shortage of skilled labour? Is it not Government policy, Sir? Is it not the short-sightedness of Government policy in the past? It took a war to bring home to the Government the absurdity of depending upon a foreign mercantile marine. The Government never thought that it would be of benefit to this country to have a merchant fleet of its own. In this connection I would like to couple the past Government with the present Government, for they, too, in so far as that project is concerned, failed to build up a merchant fleet.

If the Government had done so when entering office they would have been able to continue to keep the 1939 stocks of housing material up to standard. They would have been able to import them from abroad. The position was that Britain, having to fall back on her own fleet, was unable to allow or to allocate any space for housing material which, to her, was not essential any longer. This resulted in the fact that whatever material we had on hands was used up and then housing construction came to a standstill.

The Minister blames the municipal authorities and the local authorities for their failure to avail of this development fund for the construction of housing in spite of the fact that he must have known that there was no material available for the construction of housing.

On a point of order, Sir, would you take a motion from me that the House do now adjourn? It is the duty of the Government to keep a House to conduct its own business. This is the second time I have drawn attention to the fact that there are only three or four members behind the Minister.

I am not accepting the motion, but there is not a quorum.

It is the duty of the Government to keep the House to do its own business.

Notice taken that 20 Deputies were not present; House counted and 20 Deputies being present,

On a point of order, Sir, might I draw attention to the fact that there is only one Labour Deputy in the House?

There are two.

That is not a point of order.

Jack-in-the-box — in and out again!

I am delighted to see Deputy Walsh is there.

We will have you once a month.

Will the Deputies please listen to Deputy Cafferky?

I was saying, Sir, that if the Minister was serious in his remarks about the failure of the local authorities to avail of this fund there is an explanation. The explanation I have given is the shortage of raw materials. Then I went on to develop the lack of foresight on the part of the Government when entering office in not building up a merchant fleet and I coupled with the present Government the Government which preceded it. As I said, if they had done so they would have been able to keep intact the stock of raw material for housing construction throughout the greater part of the war because if they had their merchant fleet they would have been able to keep adding on to that stock but, instead, the whole of that stock was eaten up.

Major de Valera

Does the Deputy say that we could have got any materials we wanted?

I did not say any materials.

Major de Valera

From where?

In my opinion, we would have been able to get a sufficient amount of housing material to keep the stocks which we had in 1939 from diminishing.

Major de Valera

What do you mean by housing material?

I maintain that and I believe it. For the first years of the war things were pretty normal, particularly the first year and part of the second year, and we could have imported these essential commodities on a larger scale, recognising the danger which would arise as the war progressed and developed. But there was a lack of foresight. It took two or three years of the war to teach the Government the importance of a merchant fleet. No matter what Deputy de Valera may say, that is a thing he cannot dispute. In the middle of the war they recognised the importance of a merchant fleet and sent out one of their own colleagues to America and purchased ships at exorbitant prices, some of which were not fit enough to come here. Deputy de Valera knows that well. Any red herring of his to disrupt my argument will not succeed.

Major de Valera

I could not disrupt what is not there.

That is your contention, but I hold mine. Out of a Budget of £69,000,000 we have a sum of £40,000 allocated for forestry, which is a comparatively small sum. The Government talk about initiating schemes to give employment. I believe that an afforestation scheme is one scheme which would give employment and out of which we would reap, not immediately, but eventually considerable revenue. Through failure to develop forestry on the lines I have in mind, and the lines which perhaps many Deputies may have in mind, since the establishment of this State—again I couple the two Governments, the preceding and the present Government——

The Deputy must deal with the Government in office. This is their Budget.

I blame the Government for lack of foresight there. They have done something in connection with forestry development but it is very small in comparison with what we require and with the amount of land available which is not suitable for cultivation or grazing. If we had started to develop forestry 25 years ago on these lines we would have at our disposal to-day a certain amount of matured timber which would be ready for cutting down and which could be used for building or other purposes for which it is much needed. To my mind, an afforestation scheme would employ a large number of people and it is a matter in which the Government should be more interested. I see that the £40,000 for forestry is followed by a sum of £786,000 for airports. I believe in developing airports but, notwithstanding the importance of airports, and the rapid progress that has been made in air transport, I still believe that forestry is more important from the point of view of revenue eventually and from the point of view of giving more employment. The case may be made that if we do not develop our airports now we will be too late in doing so later on. That is the only point that could be made in favour of the development of airports at present and expending on them many times the sum provided for forestry.

I mentioned drainage, but I did not enlarge upon it. I merely mentioned it as a means by which the Minister could use the sum of £5,000,000 which he says was not availed of and which he provided specially for such works as the Minister for Education referred to, namely, drainage and housing. Drainage is of the utmost importance. I remember in 1944, after the Government had been defeated on the Transport Bill, Deputy Breen speaking in Kerry and accusing the Clann na Talmhan Party of holding up the business of the House and saying that if we had not brought about that election the Drainage Bill would have been enacted and would be in operation. Throwing his hands out he said: "All this land here would be drained." That was almost three years ago. Yet the Drainage Act is in a pigeon-hole in the Board of Works and no provision is made in this Budget for drainage. The Minister knows that if that Act were implemented we would be able to employ a considerable number of young men who are now emigrating and who will emigrate so long as the policy which the Government stands for continues.

It is all very well to say that the Government are visualising this and advocating that; but these things are not materialising. We have been hearing about them for a considerable time, but we see very little development in so far as gainful employment is concerned. We see very little development in relation to industry which would provide gainful employment. Afforestation and drainage are two schemes which would provide employment.

Then there is the question of land reclamation. While I must say that the farm improvements scheme is a good one and that many farmers have availed of it with a view to making their farms better, others have availed of it as a means of getting a few pounds, and sometimes the work is not done in the way it ought to be done, particularly drainage work, such as the laying of French drains. If we are to get anywhere from the point of view of land reclamation it will have to be done on a large scale as a State financed scheme. There are millions of acres under water and thousands of acres of cut-away bog that could be drained and reclaimed and made suitable for the growing of potatoes and corn so that people could be settled on it. Forestry, drainage and land reclamation are three ways of employing young men, keeping them here at home, increasing production and consumption, increasing the wealth of the nation and increasing the population. Instead of that, what do we find after the 15 years the Government have been in office? We find that taxation has been trebled. Arising out of that we find a decrease in production and a decrease in population. These things in themselves are sufficient to condemn the Government. They are a sufficient commentary. If I merely referred to those three points, it would be a sufficient commentary and a definite condemnation of Government policy for the past 15 years. These things exist to-day and there is no explanation for them.

There is no use in the Minister talking about emigration and trying to bluff the public about the outward and the inward movements. For every two people who go out, we are told, two will come in. The two who go out, go out permanently, in many instances, to make their homes in some other country, to add, to enrich, to build and to produce wealth in some other country. The two who come in here do not come in to make their homes here, with very few exceptions. They come to add to the large circulation of currency, paper money, and to consume food in such quantities that many of our people have to go hungry. To say that they come in to enrich the country, to do anything towards building it up and producing in the way those who have to go out would normally do, is not quite correct. There can be no comparison. It is mere bluff to talk about inward and outward movements. Do not deceive the public; let them know the truth.

We are faced with a heavy State debt of £101,000,000, accumulated over a period of years, the greater part of it since the coming into office of this Government. On that we are paying £5,000,000 interest. What a shocking state of affairs. The Budget has trebled itself in 15 years, the national debt has more than doubled itself in 15 years and the interest on it has amounted to £5,000,000. There is a constant flow of people from the country, almost equal to that of Black '47; we have a falling production and there is a reduction in our population. Is that not something that every back-bencher on the Government Benches should feel ashamed of? Does it not call for a remedy? What is the remedy? I can see none so long as the Government persists in putting their present policies over on the people, so long as they persist in doing the things they are doing. I only hope and pray that the people will wake up to the necessity of removing the Government and that they will do so before this country has reached the stage when no Government could put things on a satisfactory basis.

Reference has been made to rural electrification. I believe in it. As a matter of fact, I, and the Party to which I have the honour to belong, agree with electrical development in this country. We believe in exploiting every resource that will give employment and bring benefit to the country. But I think first things should be put first. The people of rural Ireland would be very satisfied to continue for ten or 15 years with ordinary oil lamps. They would be more satisfied if they could get their land drained and reclaimed and if the Government started on a scheme of afforestation which would give employment to the young men and so keep them in their own country. If, while doing these things, we could also carry on rural electrification, by all means do it, but I believe it is wrong to start with rural electrification, which would not employ a reasonable percentage of the workers. I believe that at a certain stage it will give good employment, but you must not regard it from that angle alone; you must look to the benefit that arises out of it, the benefit it will bring to the community. I maintain that afforestation and drainage will be of far greater value than rural electrification.

I am not condemning rural electrification and I am not saying that the Government are wrong in carrying it out, but they are taking the wrong thing first, they are taking the less important project first. No doubt rural electrification will bring comfort to the people in rural Ireland; it will give them a decent light and a means of running their wireless instead of having to depend on batteries; it will be useful for the housewife for cooking and it will be useful to the farmer in many ways. I see all the benefits it will bring, but I contend the other things I have mentioned are more important, and the Minister for Finance should be prepared to devote money to those things before he proceeds with rural electrification. If the Government can carry out all those projects together, including rural electrification, then by all means let them do so. What is being done at the moment is, in my opinion, wrong.

The Minister is prepared to spend £12.5 million on social services. In this connection I think we should ask ourselves where are we going. A lot of the money spent on social services, or projects which go under the name of social services such as unemployment benefit, outdoor relief, and free vouchers for God knows what, is doing a good deal of harm. The Minister tells us that 18 per cent. of the total Budget goes on social services and that shows that we have thought for those in need and generally, as a people, we are prepared to contribute to the support of those who are unable to take care of themselves. I believe in contributing to those who are unable to take care of themselves, but we have reached a stage to-day in Ireland when it is almost impossible to get a man to work, because a man can get more on the dole and in other forms of relief than we can afford to pay.

I was with the barber an hour ago and we had a little chat. He did not know who I was nor, I can assure you, did I tell him. I was interested in his opinions—his political, social and economic opinions. I asked him whether he thought de Valera's Government would be returned at the next election. I will not say what he said. However, in the course of our conversation he went on to tell me a story of how he invited a man for the last few Sundays to go out barrowing turf on the bog. He was giving that man 12/6 a day and feeding him, together with one of his colleagues. The man was full of sunshine, and he thought that wheeling turf was a very simple job, but when he found that the head of the barrow stuck a few times in the bog and that he had to stick his tummy out—not having done any work since Fianna Fáil came into office, his hands were a little soft and his muscles were undeveloped—he said: "Ah, I think I will go home. I never had to work like this before in my life. I can get 13/6 easier than working like this."

How long would he live on 13/6 a week?

13/6 every day. You can multiply that by six to find what he would get in the week. While I recognise the importance of looking after the widow and the orphan, looking after the head of the family who falls out of work through no fault of his own, while I recognise the importance of providing unemployment assistance for those who become unemployed temporarily through no fault of their own, I believe that the Government have gone too far in providing easy money for men who have no desire to work, men who will not work, men who have come to the conclusion that the Government must and will continue to maintain them whether they are seeking work or not. If you go into York Street, Dominick Street or any of the streets in the vicinity of Butt Bridge, or round Parnell Square, you will find every few yards groups of men playing cards. No wonder that the Minister for Finance comes along and asks us for £69,000,000 when a certain percentage of that money is spent in relieving men of that type—free fuel, free this and free that. These men have got into a state of mind in which they feel we must provide for them without their making any effort to seek employment.

I admit that at the present moment, there is little hope of getting employment. I admit that throughout the whole of the present administration very little has been done to provide these men with secure employment. The Minister and the Government must recognise that young men contemplating marriage or settling down in life must have security. To-day more than ever a young woman will not desire to marry a young man unless he can assure her that he has a secure position. She will take jolly good care that she will first find out if he is able to maintain her and provide her with a livelihood. The position is that the Government have failed to establish employment of a secure nature, employment out of which those engaged in it can receive a reasonable income. The result is that many young men have grown up from boyhood who have never done a tap of work with the exception perhaps of selling newspapers with a view to getting a few extra coppers in addition to the ordinary price of the paper when they get the policeman's back turned—in many instances a disgrace to our city and to our country.

If the Government want to change, they will have to change rapidly. If the Government want to undo all the harm they have done—and goodness knows, they have done a lot by the system they have operated—they will have to start pretty quickly. Deputy Vivion de Valera may smile but no matter how much he tries to convince himself that that is not true he must recognise that it is so. He must recognise that there is apathy amongst the people, the apathy that was responsible for the fact that only a very small percentage of the people came out to vote for him when he was elected—28 per cent. of the people. That is the apathy that exists in the minds of the people still. Many of the young men on the dole lining up at the labour exchanges came of respectable parents and were brought up respectably but they find that in this island, in this new-found republic, so to speak, there is no opportunity except for the very rich, that they must depend on the sops and the charity of Government Departments, described under the very fancy name of Social Services. Is it any wonder, that being so, that such a large number of our people depend upon these sops—vouchers for butter, bread, milk, fuel, clothes, shoes— vouchers for everything except the very air?

The Minister stands up here and under the guise of providing social services, under the pretence that he is helping the weak while he is really spoon-feeding able-bodied men and women who are unemployed through the system administered by his Government, tries to misrepresent the whole thing in the eyes of the people. Is it any wonder that this huge bill of £69,000,000 is necessary in order to finance that administration? There is nothing in the whole of these 25 or 26 pages which suggests a remedy for the future. We shall come back here, those of us who are alive next year, and face instead of £69,000,000 perhaps a bill for £72,000,000. We shall be asked, perhaps, for another increase in the tax on tobacco or on some other commodity in order to meet an extra couple of millions to support these unemployed men, who through no fault of their own, but due to the failure of the Government to do what they promised to do, are maintained in the way they are maintained, by doles, vouchers and free food.

This Party believes that, if this country were properly administered and developed, not only could we give employment to every man and woman capable of working, but we could give them decent wages and could increase social services, such as widows' and orphans' pensions and old age pensions, without having to increase taxation over its present level. I may be told that that is part of Fianna Fáil policy of the past. It was part of their policy of the past, but the Government never tried to implement it. We believe that economies can be effected to the tune of millions and millions of pounds, if a committee were appointed to go into the details of expenditure and to ascertain where these economies could be effected. We believe there is considerable overlapping, such as is evident in the matter of the sanatorium site at Santry. I remember stating in January of this year that that site would be turned down. The Minister for Local Government scoffed at the idea and said it was ridiculous. I told him my reason and told him that I had it on damned good authority—that it was not suitable because of its proximity to the airport —and he denied it. The position to-day is that it has been found unsuitable and the money spent on clearing the ground, preparing the foundations and drawing up plans has been spent to no avail. That is one instance of the waste of time and lack of foresight, as in the case of the shipping. The Government remind me of a child with his toys. He builds a little house here and in five minutes changes his mind and builds it elsewhere. The Government are jumping from bush to bush, trying this and that, and everything they try produces a failure. That is what we have been experiencing for the past 15 years. They have tried this and that, and failure has resulted in every case.

This is a Budget for one year.

It is, but it has some connection with the Budgets of other years, in so far as we are asked for an amount in excess of the amount asked for last year.

I thought the Deputy went back 15 years some minutes ago.

They have all been rolling along and showing increases.

The Deputy may continue, but this is a Budget for one year.

The mind of the child playing with his toys has not matured or developed. The mind of the Fianna Fáil Party and Government has not matured, at least in relation to development, the provision of employment and the prevention of emigration, and the keeping of taxation at some reasonable level. The Minister asks for extra millions and puts forward lame excuses, while at the same time admitting a fall in production, a continuous flow of emigrants from our land and the rationing of commodities which should be here in abundance. These things cannot be justified by shouting about the war. The speech of the Minister for Education was all about the war, and he even went back to the 1914-1918 war to justify this Budget, while I am going back only to the years in which Fianna Fáil came into office.

What struck me was that this could even be an election Budget because one could imagine Fianna Fáil going before the people and, as in the last two elections, telling the people that all their blunders, all their mistakes and this Budget of £69,000,000, were all due to the war and to the fact that, as the Minister for Education said, things are not settled yet. They would even lead the people to believe that there is a danger of another war. I tell the Minister that the cry of war will not deceive the people any longer. I believe the Salvation Army has a paper called The War-Cry, but unless the Minister and his Party attach themselves to that paper, I feel they will fail in their object. They succeeded on two occasions in getting back here, but they are not going to succeed on the third occasion in getting back here on a war cry.

Any excuse will be unearthed by this Government because they have come to the conclusion that the people will believe anything that comes out of the mouth of their leader. I think the people are now at the stage at which this tomfoolery which has gone on for a considerable time since this Government came into office will be called on to stop. When they pick up their newspapers, they read that the only luxury the poor man had, tobacco, has had clapped on it an extra 3d., in order to give the Minister a surplus at the end of the financial year of something over £2,000,000. I ask the Minister to tell me what he wants the surplus for and what he proposes to do with it.

It is well that the Budget has passed, because, in anticipation of a Budget, there is usually a considerable amount of fear amongst the people, fear of the consequences in so far as they may affect their individual manner of living, but, once the blow has fallen, the people get back their courage and can cease to fear for another year. My experience is that this Budget has been generally accepted as being more favourable than the fears of the public generally had led them to anticipate. It is true that they complained of the price of cigarettes, but the example we had in the British Budget had led them to expect some such action. The small levies have resulted in not too seriously affecting the lives and livings of our people. Accordingly, I must say that the Budget is rather better than was generally anticipated. The amount of money involved—£69,000,000—is, undoubtedly, a very large sum.

It is only reasonable for Deputies and members of the community to ask if it is not beyond our capacity to bear. Are we on a sound economic footing in collecting and spending such a sum of money? Are we on such a sound economic basis that it justifies the withdrawal of such a huge sum from production and its spending on the general services, as indicated in the Budget? That is the responsibility of the Government, and I hope they are satisfied that they are discharging their duties to the community when they undertake the levying of such a sum. I trust they have satisfied themselves that the productive capacity of this country is equal to the expenditure of that sum.

We must bear in mind that figures, so far as money is concerned, have changed very much in significance this year as against even last year and much more as against ten years ago. Whether those figures give cause for annoyance or pleasure, I am afraid we shall have to get used to them. Money set down in figures now and in the future will have to be on a scale that will compare only in a very exaggerated way with similar figures ten years ago. I, myself, should not mind the raising and spending of £69,000,000 if our productive capacity could stand it. I should not mind even if the sum were considerably increased, provided our productive capacity was equal to it and that the money was applied to purposes of real national importance. I have no objection to the spending of this money in so far as social services are concerned. I have never had the courage, nor had I the will, to oppose the introduction of legislation which had for its object the improvement of the condition of the poor and necessitous. I have never heard from any Party opposition to any proposal involving such expenditure. When we have agreed to the passing of legislation involving expenditure, it is not fair, on the day of reckoning, when the Budget is introduced, to criticise it. We have committed ourselves to a figure of £69,000,000. That has not been done overnight. It has been done gradually as a result of legislation approved or semi-approved of by the House. If there is any opposition to any particular part of that £69,000,000, it should be on the ground that the House has not been committed to it and that the money should not be raised.

Coming to my point of objection, this sum does not appal me, provided it is soundly based, but what I am more than annoyed about is seeing nowhere in the Budget provision made for dealing with one of the most pressing problems this country has—a problem which affects the country nationally, economically and from a Christian standpoint. I am referring to the poorer sections of our farming community, for whom no provision has yet been made. They are not included in the provision for the dole. They are included in very few free gifts or grants but they are included as taxpayers. Speaking last night on the Land Commission Estimate, I referred to what I considered was the appalling failure of the Land Commission under the various Ministries under which it operated since we took over office. They have left an open, running sore in this country with little attempt to salve or cure that running sore. They have left the congested areas in a poorer and more neglected condition than they were under British rule. Under British rule, some attempt was made to deal with the peculiar, economic conditions existing in those areas. Under Mr. Arthur Balfour a commission was set up known as the Congested Districts Board and furnished with a considerable sum of money. It had complete freedom to go into this question of the congested areas and endeavour to find a solution for their problems. Unquestionably, that board did great work during the years they operated. They became very popular and were recognised by the people of the congested areas as a source of hope and promise. They introduced many schemes which were very helpful to the communities amongst whom they operated. They established woodworking classes, lace-making and sprigging classes, and they developed the fishing industry. They engaged in many other schemes which, if they did not offer very lucrative prospects of employment, did afford some little earning capacity to the families living on those small holdings. In addition, they purchased estates and enlarged the holdings of the people so far as it was in their power to do so. During the period of years in which they carried out their operations, they enlisted the sympathy and goodwill of the community in their work.

Shortly after our late Government was established here, one of the things they did was to abolish that board and to confiscate their income, amounting to about £41,000 a year. They destroyed the only organisation ever set up to examine the problem of the congested areas on the spot in a sympathetic way and they substituted nothing else. What has happened since? Look at the first and real test of our prosperity? What has become of the population of the congested areas in the last 25 years? It has dwindled and dwindled considerably and if it were not for the coercive attitude of the Government in prohibiting young men with agricultural experience from leaving those areas and if the ports and free exit were available to them, their numbers to-day would be very few. Look at the appalling condition that prevails, as gauged by the closed schools and the reduced averages of those that are open. Ask the clergymen in those areas. I can tell of two in my own experience. In the five and eight years in which they officiated in their respective parishes, they officiated at three christenings and two. Is that a great test of progress? Is it not a complete denunciation of the policy pursued towards the elimination of that most deserving and energetic and industrious section of our whole farming community?

I am prepared to accept and admit that the Government may rightly claim that, if they abolished the Congested Districts Board, they introduced and spent much more money by way of free Government grants among the same section of the community. That is true, but there was no such thing as an expert examination, a sympathetic approach or an attempt to improve the earning capacity of that section of the community. Doles and other grants are only wasteful, if they are not effectively used and an endeavour made to get for each grant and every pound spent some beneficial result.

We applied an industrial programme here, a very excellent thing, to give employment to our people in manufacturing the goods that hitherto had been imported. What was the effect of that on those small farmers in the congested areas? They paid more for boots and clothing, more for every article. They provided a protected market for the industrialist, but the industrialist never established his factory in their centre. He went to the cities and towns. Is it any wonder that the people fled from the area, being pressed and over pressed on the one hand to find employment for those brothers of theirs in the cities and towns and they themselves made pay an increased price without an increased reward in return? There was no employment for them. If a boy or girl wanted employment in an industry established in Dublin, first of all, the trade unions here would not allow that boy or girl to come in. They would not be allowed into Dublin, as they were not members of the trade union. Secondly, the wage offered would not enable them to live here in Dublin and pay their way. Is it any wonder they were pilloried and forced to fly out of the country, to any form of employment, whether underground in Scotland, England or Wales or to any part of the world, carrying a gun, flying in the air, or carrying bombs to destroy people with whom they had no quarrel? Those are the things forced on the unfortunate people living in the congested areas. Industrial development here brought no benefit to them. It has cursed them, it is destroying them and destroying the most industrious and hard-working section of the people, as no previous effort ever did. To that extent, I consider it a bad Budget.

Further, we wonder what is the reason we have to pay more for milk, butter, eggs, poultry, bacon and where they have gone. I will tell you one of the reasons. We are destroying the producing community in the congested areas, whose people were hard working and industrious, who worked under slave conditions, and who were never paid for their work. So long as they were able to buy the imported food-stuffs which the land could not provide at home, to feed to large quantities of poultry, large numbers of pigs, to feed to their cows, and so long as their families worked for nothing, then we were able to provide a surplus of those commodities to sell them cheaply on slave labour and slave conditions and get even an export market. You have destroyed that economy, destroyed the cheap producers here who were hard workers, who knew nothing about the eight-hour day or the 45-hour week. The policy has been to abolish them and it is a policy that is wrong nationally, wrong economically and wrong morally. There is no provision in this £69,000,000 to remedy that grievance and, accordingly, the Budget is a bad Budget, from my point of view.

Neither have you in the Budget, as far as I can see, made any provision to continue improving the housing facilities so much needed in the country. The old grant of £40 for reconstruction and £80 for a new building is no longer adequate, having regard to the costs of building. I anticipated that, for this necessary work, a proportionate increase in the grant would have become available. It is not here and, accordingly, the Budget is condemned on that point also.

While there are general increases included in the Budget and necessary ones for increased salaries of those employed by the State in general, I see no increase for another poor section of the community, the retired national teachers I see no increase here intended for the resigned R.I.C. men and the various other pensioners. So long and so far as the Government fails to make provision to provide an equitable allowance, having regard to the cost of living, for all officials and not for one section alone, to that extent the Budget is not a just Budget and is a bad one.

If I have spoken hard about this subject of the neglected areas which have been so penalised, I express also the hope that, if no provision has actually been made in the Budget to deal with this problem, the Minister will see his way, during the year, to take into consideration some specific plan by which that problem can be re-examined and improved. I see no better way than by resuming something on the lines of the old Congested Districts Board, some body with powers to examine into the problem and charged with bringing forward a detailed report, so that something may be done to save the situation before it is too late. I have not the smallest doubt in my mind that an examination of the problem will produce the solution.

I myself know of schemes, which I have advocated from time to time without success, which would alter that whole position and at no very extraordinary expense to the State. I ask the Minister, as a responsible man and a courageous man, to face up to this situation and I add an appeal—a personal appeal, knowing the conditions there—to my representation that something may be done before it is too late. It is difficult to understand the conditions of life in those districts. It is not appreciated here, it could never be appreciated by city people, it could never be understood by well-to-do farming communities elsewhere; but there is that problem and there are numbers of people suffering in consequence. I bring the matter again before the Government and ask them, in the name of justice, to make some effort to deal with that serious problem.

The Minister has the rather doubtful honour of introducing the fifteenth Fianna Fáil Budget, producing figures which indicate that, since the Fianna Fáil Government came into office, the tax revenue has been doubled, rates paid by local people to local authorities have been doubled and, strange to say, bank deposits have been more than doubled. The fact that bank deposits have been doubled should indicate, to some extent, that there was an improvement in the standard of living among the ordinary people. The Minister, however, admitted, and gave his own reasons for admitting, that the standard of living had been reduced as compared with what it was in the last pre-war period. The Minister, in the concluding portion of his speech, said:

"I appeal to workers' organisations to put their trust in a policy of expansion rather than of monopoly and restriction."

He concluded that appeal in this way:

"There is every reason at the present time for workers' organisations to take the initiative in suggesting ways in which output per worker will be increased per unit of wage, with the advantage to the worker of greater earnings. If production costs are reduced and yearly output increased the real standard of living will rise. If wages only were to rise, the real standard of living must inevitably fall."

I do not challenge the accuracy of the concluding portion of that appeal, but I do ask the Minister to say how, in the name of common sense, can you increase the production of food and fuel and the other necessaries of life when you have such a large exodus of people from the areas where food and fuel are produced? If we have a reduction in the number of people engaged in work on the land, such as has been admitted is the case in the rural areas, there cannot be that increase in production which the Minister and everybody else is anxious to see. I do not want to say anything in criticism of the Budget or of the policy enshrined in it which would prevent the Government or the people of the country from getting that whole-hearted response which the Minister has asked the workers' organisations to give, but he must be aware, as his colleagues are aware, of the real reason for the emigration of large sections of workers, agricultural labourers and others from our towns and villages. If things were in any way satisfactory they should be engaged on the production of food and fuel in their native areas, and the real reasons for their departure are the inducements, alleged or real, held out to them to go to the neighbouring nation where they are promised higher rates of wages and better working conditions generally. I said here some weeks ago on the Estimate for the Department of the Minister for Industry and Commerce that some of the people who have already departed to the neighbouring nation in response to the inducements offered to them have found that the position there was not as nice as it was painted for them.

As a Deputy for an area from which a large number of people have gone across, I would like to help the Government, or any member of it, when he tries to induce people, still anxious to leave the rural areas, to remain at home. The Minister and the members of the Government could make a contribution to the achievement of that desirable object if they would agree to give the rural workers better conditions and would concentrate in the future, because they have not done so in the past, on keeping down the cost of essential commodities, and, consequently, the cost of living.

If I have any accusation to make against the Government—I make it in the name of the organised workers of the country—it is that they have made no genuine attempt to control the prices of essential commodities. It is that fact that is the cause of a good deal of the unrest that exists amongst workers, whether in the cities and rural areas. I want to give this friendly warning to the Government that unless they concentrate all their efforts on keeping down the cost of essential commodities there is more trouble coming to them in the future than they have got in the past. Nobody will deny that, in the case of essential commodities, there has been no real attempt made to keep prices within reasonable bounds. The price of a head of cabbage in the city or suburbs of Dublin now ranges from 1/- to 1/2. Will the Minister get up and defend that, and tell the House how much of that 1/- or 1/2 goes to the producer? Will he also tell the House and tell the people—a good many know this but there are others who do not—how much of the economic price, including the subsidy, that is paid by the consumer of turf goes to the turf producer?

I do not think that I am exaggerating when I say that not more than one-third of it goes to the producer. The rest goes to the transport racketeers, to the middle-men engaged in the clamping and distribution of turf in this city, to people who were previously engaged in selling or distributing coal and to people who know nothing or very little, as the Minister for Industry and Commerce said, about turf, and who have no proper organisation for the distribution of turf at a reasonable price.

There is also the well-known scandal of the cost of clothing. Nobody knows better than the Minister for Industry and Commerce—he was engaged in the drapery trade himself before he became a Minister—that the citizens have to pay an excessive price for clothing and particularly children's clothing. Can the Minister for Finance stand up and say that the Government have since the commencement of the emergency made any honest attempt to deal with this matter? In a neighbouring country where clothing costs are much lower than they are here—I admit that there is a subsidy given to retailers there— people who refuse to obey the law and make excessive charges for food, fuel or clothing are severely dealt with, not only by the imposition of heavy penalties but by having to serve terms of imprisonment. That is the only way to deal with racketeers who are the cause of the unrest that exists amongst organised and unorganised workers throughout our cities and towns to-day.

The Minister for Education after being silent on matters of this kind for two or three years spoke here this evening. I doubt if he has made such a speech since the emergency arose. He came in and delivered a prepared and provocative speech. I was glad to hear him admit, for the first time since Fianna Fáil came into office, that the new slogan of Fianna Fáil to-day is to tell the people the truth. It is about time, after being 15 years in office that they started to tell the people the truth. I suppose they cannot prevent the people any longer from realising what the position is. The Minister made some very remarkable statements during a fairly lengthy and, as I say, provocative speech. He talked about the terrible job it is, and it is an extremely difficult and almost impossible job, for the county councils to increase their turf production this year from 350,000 to 600,000 tons. I have the honour to represent a constituency that has made a big contribution, both prior to the emergency and particularly since the emergency, to the quantity of turf or fuel produced and I admit from what I have been able to ascertain from recent visits to a number of important areas in my constituency that the position is extremely difficult and serious. The Government or Bord na Móna, or the people who are in charge of turf production generally in this country, unless they get the help of God and good weather, cannot produce the quantity of turf in the coming short turf-cutting season that would be required in the cities and towns during the coming winter and the following spring. We are already six weeks late in commencing production so far as the county councils are concerned.

I am only relating that statement to what I know to be the position in my own constituency, which is a fairly extensive turf-producing area. If that is the case, the situation is extremely serious and I certainly say that it is the bounden duty of every citizen engaged in turf production, whether he is a private producer, a person employed by Bord na Móna or a person employed by the county council, to face up to that serious situation and save the people, particularly in the cities and towns, from a repetition of what happened during the last three or four months. We are starting, as the Minister for Education said, with a considerable disadvantage in that we have no stocks in hand and the turf-cutting season generally is starting much later than it did last year.

A good deal of the trouble that has arisen in the turf-cutting counties in the past, such as the strikes that occurred, was due to the failure of the Government, not of the directors of Bord na Móna, to realise the necessity of providing better wages and working conditions for the people engaged in this very essential industry. I am not going to say that the Government are entitled to any congratulation for their offer to pay these workers a weekly wage of £2 16s. 0d. I know large numbers of decent hard-working farmers in my constituency who are paying, and who paid last year, a higher rate of wages than £2 16s. 0d. to their agricultural labourers and also to persons employed in the production of turf for sale. If the private producer of turf is in a position and is willing to pay over £3 a week to a rural worker on turf-cutting operations, surely the State can do better. The failure of the Government to realise their obligations to rural workers in the matter of wages and conditions of employment is the real cause of so many of our rural workers being so anxious to leave this country for employment in the neighbouring country.

A case was brought to my notice recently of a young man who served in the Army and who retired with the rank of sergeant. He applied for a position as civilian storekeeper under the Department of Defence. This man is one of the finest footballers in this country. He is strictly temperate, physically fit and had experience in storekeeper's work in the unit in which he served for many years. He was promised by some of the chief officers in the Army before he left—the promise was not worth very much, apparently—that they would try to get him fixed up in civilian employment under the Department of Defence. There was a large number of applicants for the 60 positions but all of them had not the experience this man had in the Army and the good conduct certificate that he received when he left the Army. Somebody requiring a very high standard of efficiency for positions of that kind said he had not the necessary qualifications. He came to me and one or two other Deputies for the constituency—perhaps he went to all the Deputies—and he wanted me to assist him to secure a passport so that he could get work in Great Britain. I told him I would do no such thing until I had failed to find some kind of employment for him at home. I, with two of my colleagues, persuaded a public company in this country to give him employment. A vacancy should have been provided for that man, in view of his long service and experience and high qualifications, as a civilian worker in the Department of Defence.

He was not a Fianna Fáil member.

I suppose he could not produce the necessary recommendation from the people who count and the recommendation of Opposition Deputies was worthless, although he had the necessary qualifications and experience. I do not like to mention the man's name in this House but I will give it to the Minister for Finance, if he wants to check up. I will show that he was a young man of outstanding qualifications who served his country practically since the State was established, who was strictly temperate and who brought honour, not only to his own county and to the Army, but to the country in the field of athletics and Gaelic football. A man who gives such service is entitled to more consideration than this man received from the powers that be. I quote that as a glaring case of a person who thought he could not find work in his native land and who, because he could not live as an idler or impose on his family or on the taxpayers, was anxious to get work in a foreign land. I accuse the Government of not having provided him with employment. He had all the qualifications and experience to entitle him to a position of the kind I have mentioned.

There is no use in the Minister for Education coming in here for the first time he has wakened up for a couple of years, accusing me and my colleagues and other Deputies in the Opposition Benches of helping people to go to a foreign country when these people insist on going there simply because they cannot get work or a livelihood in their native land. The Minister for Education said—and wrongly —that there was plenty of money available for every useful work that could be carried out in this country but the trouble was that there were physical difficulties.

What is the physical difficulty or what is the real difficulty in carrying out a national afforestation scheme? What is the position of the Government and of the Minister for Finance this year in this matter? On the authority of experts, there are about 3,000 acres of land in this country suitable for afforestation purposes, the poor law valuation of which is about 1/- an acre. If that land were planted and if the timber matured in 25 or 35 years it is estimated that it would be worth about £1,000 an acre.

Did the Deputy say 3,000 acres?

3,000,000 acres. I am sorry if I said 3,000. The Minister for Finance can tell you better than anybody else that the value of timber imported into this country in pre-war days was £8,000,000. There is a fertile field there for the use of this unlimited money that the Minister for Education says is available. They could plant the country with trees and give valuable employment to large sections of our citizens and give that employment in rural areas, from which some of our citizens have emigrated during the past few years. I ask Deputies to look at the Forestry Vote and to say whether or not they are satisfied. They will get another opportunity of dealing with the matter on the Estimate. This year there is an increase of only £10,000 on last year's Estimate for cultural operatons and maintenance, timber conversion and grants for afforestation purposes. There is only £10,000 more for this very valuable work, although the Minister for Education says that there is unlimited money available for national development works of this kind.

I may not be well informed. I have not the same information at my disposal as the Minister for Finance has but will he tell me what are the physical difficulties or other difficulties in the way of acquiring the land that is there, at a nominal price, and going ahead with a national scheme of afforestation? What is our position to-day in regard to afforestation? How do our lands under wood compare with the countries from which we import the main supply of our timber? I understand that in this country at the present time the area of forestry land is one-half of 1 per cent. Yet we stand on the fact that we have 3,000,000 acres suitable for this particular purpose. What is the position in other European countries, as I say, from which we have to get our timber imports? The areas under timber are: Italy, 16 per cent.; Portugal, 17 per cent.; Belgium, 18 per cent.; France, 18.7 per cent.; Switzerland, 22 per cent.; Norway, 23 per cent.; Poland, 24 per cent.; Germany, 27 per cent.; Yugoslavia, 31 per cent.; Czechoslovakia, 33 per cent., and Austria, 37 per cent. Is not that a nice comparison seeing that we are supposed to have had freedom in this country for the past 25 years? It is a disgrace both to the present and the previous Government that they have not made more use of the land that is so suitable in this country for a national scheme of that kind. What is the present policy of the Government in regard to afforestation, as announced by the Minister for Lands when introducing the Estimate for last year? The Minister in his speech said the forestry programme represented the planting of 10,000 acres per annum. By planting 10,000 acres of land per annum that would give us 500,000 acres in 50 years. None of us will be alive to see that timber come to maturity. None of us will be alive to see it used, at any rate.

Five hundred thousand acres of land, out of the 3,000,000 acres available and suitable for the purpose, will be planted at the end of 50 years, and these 500,000 acres, if ever planted, will represent 4 per cent. of the available land in this country suitable for that purpose under forest compared with the figures I have given for the other countries from which we have to get our timber, amounting in pre-war days to £8,000,000. It would be interesting to relate the pre-war figure of £8,000,000, representing the 1938 value of our timber imports, to the price we will have to pay if we have to continue to import for the next five or ten years on the same scale.

I want to know, and I am sure the Minister has no objection to telling me, what difficulties are in the way, seeing that we have all this money available, of having a proper national scheme of afforestation. I am forced to ask that question because of the provocative manner in which the Minister for Education dealt with that particular matter. Everybody knows that land under wood not alone contributes to the health of the people but also to the wealth and to the happiness of the people. If I have anything further to say on this question of afforestation, Sir, I will develop it on the Estimate when it comes up for consideration. The Minister for Finance, who is responsible for providing the money for the Minister for Lands and Forestry, may be in a position to save his colleague the trouble of dealing with that question, because the Minister for Finance is the Minister who provides the money for all these essential services. If, as the Minister for Education says, there is plenty of money available for every job, I want to know the reason why it is not being used. The Minister for Finance may be able to improve my education on this matter. I admit that my education can be improved on all these matters by the responsible Minister because he has more information at his disposal than any ordinary Deputy in this House.

Deputy Moran, speaking in the debate earlier this evening, does not seem to have the common-sense interpretation of the meaning of social services. Deputy Moran seems to think that the social services can be associated with the free fuel and free food schemes. I agree, and everybody in this House agrees, that there is an obligation on the Government to provide, out of their unlimited resources, for the maintenance of the aged, the poor and the infirm. However, there is no necessity and there should be no necessity for a country where there is real financial freedom to have to provide miserable pittances for persons who are unable to find work, such as the miserable allowances provided through the unemployment assistance or the unemployment insurance funds. Deputy Moran, I am afraid, does not understand the full meaning of financial freedom because if we use the political freedom we have got to provide work and a decent livelihood for our citizens there will be no necessity to increase the amount provided for our so-called social services. We can have full employment in this country under a financial system that gives full freedom to the Minister for Finance and his Government to create credit and provide cheap money for these national development schemes. If the Government used their powers to provide money for all these development works and cut out unemployment they would certainly be in a position to effect a considerable saving under the head of what is now referred to as social services. Deputy Moran will only learn in the school of experience. He will find out later on that there should be no necessity in a well-governed country to provide these miserable allowances for persons who are unable to find work.

I salute the Minister—and it is not the first occasion, as this is his second Budget—as being the first Minister for Finance in either of the two Governments who have held office in this country for a long time to face up to the problem—it was a problem which only required a bit of courage and he had it —of finding cheap money for the carrying on of our national and local services to provide money through the Local Loans Funds for local authorities to build houses and carry out useful local development schemes.

He had to be pressed for a long time.

Your Government got the opportunity and were even encouraged to take that line. I want to say that the present Minister is the first man who faced up to that very serious and urgent problem. I do not care what the name of the Minister is or what Government he is associated with but I salute him for taking that step after 23 or 24 years.

We all appreciate his action.

I am definitely of opinion that our national problems cannot or never will be solved unless and until the banking system of the country is under the control of the Parliament set up by the people.

The Deputy is not saluting the Minister on that.

The Minister has some ground to make up yet. If the local authorities are entitled to receive cheap money for the purpose of carrying on their local services, building houses, providing waterworks and sewerage schemes and other services, the private citizen—particularly as we have a Government tied so tightly to private enterprise—is entitled to the same concession. I do not see why the farmers of the country or the ordinary citizen who wants to improve his farm or develop a small local industry should not be provided with money at the same or, if possible, a lower rate of interest. If the Government is definitely tied to the system of developing our country by means of private enterprise it will see the necessity for that later on.

I do not want to trouble the House but if anybody wants to read the summarised reports of our joint stock banks and see the way the banks have being fleecing the farmer and the industrialist and the local authorities over a long period of years I have the book here and he is welcome to read it. As against that he can see the very limited facilities which they have given to industrialists and farmers over the same period. Their hidden reserves are extraordinarily high. There are the greatest lot of racketeers in the world controlling the banks of the country.

I cannot subscribe to the idea that we have real freedom here. I admit that in the Twenty-Six Counties we have real political freedom; but you cannot have a good economic and financial system in this country unless you have control of the banks and have power vested in the Minister for Finance to issue credit to the extent to which it is required for national development purposes. I do not see how any Government in any country can call itself really free and democratic unless it has power to control the finances of the country. I was glad to see that when the Labour Government across the Channel took control recently they fixed reasonable rates of interest for the provision of money to local authorities and, to a considerable extent also I understand, to private individuals who are prepared to carry out development work and provide employment for the people of that country. That system is now in operation in nearly every democratically controlled country in the world except this.

I hope the next step taken by the Minister for Finance will be to follow the good example of the Governments of New Zealand, Australia, Great Britain, Sweden and other countries. He will find that his problems and the problems of his colleagues will be much easier when he has that power. They have no real power until they get that. It is a peculiar state of affairs that we have in this House 138 Deputies elected by the free will of the people, with responsibility for electing a Government and a Minister for Finance, and that neither the Minister nor any of his colleagues has control over the small number of persons who control what is called the joint stock banks standing committee who dictate to everybody what they must pay for the money they borrow. They have the farmers who have the misfortune to have to go to a bank to borrow money in pawn for their lives.

There will be other opportunities on the Finance Bill to go into any other matters to which it may be necessary to refer. I think that the Budget, generally speaking, is a fairly good one. I was amazed at Deputy Mulcahy yesterday when, as Leader of the Opposition, for the first time he called for a division on the question of income-tax. Surely, so long as we want money or must get money to develop the natural resources of the country, to find work for the unemployed, and to provide decent allowances for the sick, the infirm and the poor you cannot justify reducing income-tax.

Did not trade unionists send a deputation to the Minister for Finance on the question of income-tax?

They made representations to the Minister to increase the personal allowances, but not to reduce the basic figure.

That is another way of reducing it.

Is Deputy Davin satisfied with the incidence of income-tax?

We say that higher personal allowances should be granted. But, on the question whether income-tax should be reduced before providing money for essential services, I do not agree that Deputy Mulcahy was taking the right line. I have been present at the introduction of 24 Budgets since I came into the House and it was the first time, so far as I remember, that a division was challenged on that question. However, Deputy Mulcahy knows his own business better than I do; it his funeral.

We will have a few more divisions on it.

So far as I can express my opinion by my voice and vote, I will certainly take the line I took yesterday so far as I understand Deputy Mulcahy's point of view. As I said, there will be other and probably more suitable occasions before the Finance Bill goes through on which other matters can be raised.

I have been listening to Deputies from different parts of the country speaking and it is very hard to follow some of the speeches that have been made. I am going to speak for the workers who are confronted to-day with this Budget. I do not intend to congratulate the Minister for Finance or the Government in any way on the Budget, because it is the working-class people who will be mainly hit by it. The cigarette smoker will have to pay ld. each for his cigarettes and old age pensioners and others 6d. more for two ounces of tobacco. I do not think any Deputy could congratulate the Government on this Budget. The members of that Government said in 1932: "Put us into power and we will be the poor man's Government. We will reduce taxation. No man should be paid more than £1,000 per annum." Since they got into power three successive Ministers for Finance have increased taxation by £10,000,000 each. They have also increased salaries. When the Clann na Talmhan Party brought in a motion to reduce the salary of the President, what happened? The Government Party and the Fine Gael Party voted against that motion.

I was listening to the Minister for Social Welfare speaking in County Wexford in 1932 when he said: "Put us in power and we will cut down taxation. We will provide work for every man and, if a man will not work, we will put him in jail." To-day we have 70,000 unemployed. We have old age pensioners trying to exist on 2/-, 3/-and 6/- a week owing to the means test. We have widows getting a noncontributory pension of 5/- and blind persons 10/-. Yet we have a Budget of this size brought in. How many people in this country who are in need of social services do not get the benefit of them? I am speaking now of the agricultural labourer and the workers in the cities and towns who may have four children. If two of the children are over 16 years of age and two under it, they do not get any children's allowance. After the first two, the parent gets half-a-crown, but the person who has three boys over age and two other youngsters—five in family—gets nothing from that section of our social services.

I do not agree with what Deputy Cafferky said. He said he knew of a man who got 13/6 a day, but his hands got sore. Deputy Cafferky is always asking here for priority for County Mayo in order to let the workers go to England. He told us he knew of a man who would not work although he would be paid at the rate of 13/6 a day. I do not believe that could be so. Many Irishmen are to-day working in the pits in England. They are clamouring at every labour exchange to get away to England to work. Yet we have Deputy Cafferky, who is a member of a small Farmers' Party, telling us a man would not work here for 13/6 a day. Look at the demand for passports in this country to-day. Go to the Castle and watch the crowds of men and women waiting to get passports. Go to Stephen's Green and see the crowds there. Go to the United Kingdom Office in Merrion Square and there again you will see crowds of people waiting from 9 o'clock in the morning until 4 o'clock in the afternoon trying to get permission to leave this country because they cannot get work in it.

What is the Government doing? They make promises and promises, but that is all. During the emergency they told us they could not get ahead with certain schemes because of the difficulties brought about by the war. They told us they had to pay £7,000,000 a year to keep up an Army to defend our shores. To-day that Army is demobilised and the majority of the men are waiting at the labour exchanges. Others are in the coal pits in England or in the British Air Force. That is the compensation given to the men who served this State in time of need; that is what they get from Fianna Fáil. It is time we did something for them.

In the Budget £2,000,000 has been set aside for the decoration of Dublin Castle, but not one house is being built in rural Ireland where houses are so badly needed. All our schemes are held up in the Custom House waiting for sanction. A scheme was sent up from my own town for the construction of 100 houses and that scheme has been lying in the Department for the past 18 months waiting for sanction. They will advise the local authorities to do their duty and erect houses for the people, but when you send up a scheme it may be sent back because the back door might be marked on the wrong end, according to the ideas of the Department. Then it must go back again and another six months will elapse before the Department express an opinion upon it. We were told that our drainage schemes would employ thousands of workers and there would be plenty of work for everybody.

In my constituency the people were waiting for the Evening Herald to see what the Budget would do for them. I am talking mostly for the poor people now. They were wondering if they would get some relief. When the old age pensioners saw what the Budget proposed, they said: “We may break up our pipes; Dev has put on another tanner.” The unemployed said: “We are done with smoking if it means a penny a smoke.” The Government can find money for everything, but they will not look after the interests of the poor and aged. They can find money for luxury hotels, for the decoration of Dublin Castle, but there is nothing for the poor. Next July the old age pensioner will get 2/6, but his voucher will be taken away, and out of the 2/6 the Minister will take a “tanner” for two ounces of tobacco, the only comfort that the old people have. Surely, they could have found other things to tax. Why should they tax the only comfort that the young and the old people have? The only time the man on the land looks happy is when he is smoking his pipe.

To-day in Ballsbridge you could see the luxury motor-cars lined up in thousands. The Government did not touch them. They did not touch them because it would mean touching people of their own class. That is why the Government will not interfere with them. What does the future hold for our poor people? Last winter people died from the cold in this country. The old people died in large numbers. They died in the county homes and in their own homes because there were no fires.

We are hoping for better times. We thought there would be an improvement when the Budget was introduced, but we can see in this evening's papers that in the City of Dublin meat has increased by 3d. a lb. and it probably will be more. The Evening Herald and the Evening Mail contained that information this evening. The cost of living has risen out of all proportion to the incomes of the people.

Deputy Moran of Mayo, speaking from the Fianna Fáil Benches to-day, said: "If you want to get a feed, come to this country." If you go out to-night in the City of Dublin you will see unfortunate people queueing up for a penny dinner. They are not able to go to the Gresham Hotel or the Shelbourne Hotel and pay 12/6 for food. That is the talk of a man like Deputy Moran, who is a lawyer and can afford to do it, but the unfortunate, unemployed man in the country is trying to exist on a wage of 44/-. That is the pay of an agricultural labourer and the road worker has a shilling less. Then the Minister for Local Government says: "I will not increase your wages until I see how the agricultural wages will go." These are facts. I move to report progress.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Friday, 9th May.
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