Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 26 Jun 1947

Vol. 107 No. 3

International Agreement on North Atlantic Ocean Weather Observation Stations—Motion of Approval.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. Lemass)

I move:

That the Dáil approves of the International Agreement on North Atlantic Ocean Weather Observation Stations, signed at London on the 25th September, 1946, a copy of which was laid on the Table of the Dáil on the 3rd June, 1947.

The agreement to which the motion relates was made at a conference held in London last year under the auspices of the Provisional International Civil Aviation Organisation. Previously, the North Atlantic Regional Conference held in Dublin had recommended that 13 ocean weather ships should be maintained at certain points in the North Atlantic and the later London conference confirmed that recommendation and drew up the agreement settling the location of the stations, the method of financing and operating them, and so forth. The agreement was signed by nine States having direct interest in aviation in the North Atlantic region. The estimated cost of operating these weather stations will be in the order of £2,000,000 per year. The division of the cost between the participating States was based broadly on the anticipated use of the stations, as measured by the probable number of transatlantic flights to be made by the operating companies of each State in the year commencing 1st July next.

On that basis our share would be about 1 per cent, or £20,000. There was, however, acceptance by the conference of the idea that the countries already making exceptional contributions to the provision of navigational facilities should receive credit for their contributions when considering the question of the stationary weather-ships. We offered to contribute £5,000 per annum and that offer was agreed to. A contribution at that rate from this country is provided for in that agreement. The plan in the agreement provides for the operating and financing of the stations by named States as set out under Article 3 of the Agreement. Our contribution will be made as a general contribution to the cost of the scheme.

Aviation and meteorological experts agree that the setting up of these weather stations will be a noteworthy development in the history of civil aviation in the North Atlantic region. The data they will provide will make for greater safety, for a considerable improvement in the regularity of services and for substantial economies in their operation. The stations should also result in better weather forecasts over all the Western European area and will, therefore, be of help, not merely to aviation but also to the shipping and fishing industries, to agriculture and other interests needing reliable weather forecasts. The conclusion of an agreement between the States concerned to provide these ocean weather stations is a useful example of international co-operation in the field of air transport. It is fully in accord with our national policy that we should play our part in such co-operation. I, therefore, recommend to the Dáil to adopt this agreement.

Mr. Cosgrave

Can the Minister say if our contribution will be a purely monetary contribution or whether we are to man any of the stations?

Mr. Lemass

Our contribution will be purely a monetary one. We are not undertaking to maintain or man any of the ships. The cost in such an event would be far greater, of course.

Mr. Norton

Can the Minister say what the contribution is?

Mr. Lemass

£5,000.

Mr. Norton

Is that a fixed contribution?

Mr. Lemass

It is in our case. Article 3 provides that the signatory governments will bear the whole of the cost, whatever it may be, of maintaining and operating the number of ships indicated in each case. In our case there is a special provision that there will be a contribution of £5,000 a year in all circumstances.

Mr. Norton

Is that contribution fixed and non-variable?

Mr. Lemass

Yes.

Mr. Cosgrave

Will there be a charge for the benefits of any weather forecasts that will be available not merely for aviation but for agriculture, etc., or will they be normally distributed as a weather forecast?

Mr. Lemass

The data will be available to everyone.

Mr. McMenamin

Why are none of these stations placed on the Irish coast?

Mr. Lemass

They are not placed on any coast. They will be located at various points in the Atlantic.

Mr. McMenamin

They are in various countries.

Mr. Lemass

No, they are ships on the ocean. This is a scheme to establish stationary weather ships on the Atlantic which will act as meteorological information centres.

Mr. McMenamin

Are we to have any part in the training of the personnel for them?

Mr. Lemass

No, we are not undertaking to operate any of the ships.

Mr. McMenamin

Does the Minister think it would be feasible to have men trained?

Mr. Lemass

I do not think we could do that unless we were prepared to undertake the financing of a station. We could have gone to the conference and undertaken to maintain and finance a station but the cost would be something in the nature of £200,000 a year. It would be far more than we think we should contribute to that service.

Mr. McMenamin

When we are a party to it, would it not be better if we had some return from it in the way of getting some training for scientific personnel in this country who may be required in the future? I notice that these other countries who are parties to the agreement will have personnel trained at these various stations. What struck me as peculiar in the agreement was that we have no representation or no opportunity of having any of our nationals trained there. That would leave this country without any trained or skilled staff of any kind for any purpose of our own for the future.

Mr. Lemass

That is not the position. The trained staff will be meteorological experts. Because of our western position in Europe, we have a rather special function in the whole meteorological organisation of Europe. In fact, we maintain a meteorological service used primarily in connection with aviation which is of very great value, not merely to ourselves, but to everybody concerned with aviation in the North Atlantic area or with weather forecasts in Europe. We are training a staff and have taken very special measures to secure a trained staff for that service. It would, I think, be asking this country to make an undue contribution to the meteorological information required in the North Atlantic area or Western Europe if we were to do more than provide for the costs of the ground stations on our soil.

Mr. McMenamin

What struck me as peculiar is that Belgium and Holland have one station and Norway and Sweden, I think, have another. There is no other station from there to Iceland. There is none at all from north of Great Britain to the east coast of Canada.

Mr. Lemass

These stations will not be in Belgium or Holland.

Mr. Norton

They pay for them.

Mr. Lemass

They pay for them.

Mr. McMenamin

They have them staffed with their nationals. There is no station as far as a line drawn across the north of Great Britain and Ireland to the east coast of America and Canada. One wonders whether this will be effective with regard to weather conditions between the east coast of America and Norway. Sweden, Holland and Belgium.

Mr. Lemass

So far as training staff is concerned, at the moment we are taking special measures to train meteorological experts and are finding considerable difficulty in manning the stations we are operating here.

General Mulcahy

As to the general purposes to be served by these stations, is there one set of purposes relating to aviation generally and another set of purposes relating to information with regard to the weather that might be useful to the farming community?

Mr. Lemass

No, it is the same thing. The purpose of these stations will be to broadcast hourly or half hourly, as may be arranged, information as to the weather conditions on the spot where they are. That is the raw material of the forecast used either for preparing a flight schedule for an aircraft captain or a more general forecast of weather conditions over a longer period.

General Mulcahy

So far as we are concerned, have we made preparations to make use of that information for agricultural purposes, or is it only for purposes of aviation?

Mr. Lemass

It is intended that our meteorological service will ultimately take over general forecasting duties. It has not done so yet, mainly because we have not yet got the personnel to undertake the responsibility for it. It will be some years, I think, before we will have an meteorological service so built up that it can take on general forecasting duties as well as these specific forecasting duties.

Mr. Hughes

Is it intended to map observations and take barometric measures to show the trend of cyclones and anti-cyclones?

Mr. Lemass

At the present time, so far as we are concerned, the meteorological service is conducted primarily in connection with air navigation and, in addition to that air navigation service, it is intended that there will be a general forecasting service. We have not got a general forecasting service at present, but it is being built up The general weather forecasts published here are compiled by the British meteorological service.

Mr. Hughes

That sort of service will continue?

Mr. Lemass

Yes, and will be improved by the addition of these stations.

Mr. Hughes

You will rely on the stations to improve that?

Mr. Lemass

Undoubtedly.

General Mulcahy

The agreement refers to the Provisional International Civil Aviation Organisation and the opening paragraph of the agreement would suggest that the Governments who are the sole members of that organisation are Belgium, Canada, France, Ireland, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States of America. Are these the sole members of the organisation?

Mr. Lemass

No. These are the members of the organisation who have a special interest in the North Atlantic area, and this agreement relates only to the North Atlantic. There are, of course, States in other areas in the organisation and these States will, no doubt, in their areas eventually make agreements similar to this, if required.

Mr. Hughes

When the Minister talks about a service for agriculture, is it the intention to develop a meteorological service here similar to that in Sweden? That service does not give general information but more localised information, because localised information is very important at certain times of the year to the agricultural community. It is not a fortnight's forecast you want at a period like this for hay-making; you want to know what will happen to-morrow.

Mr. Lemass

It is intended to build up a general forecasting service. It will take some time to do that, because the recruitment of competent personnel and their training for the work is a rather slow process.

Question put and agreed to.