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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 13 Nov 1947

Vol. 108 No. 13

Anglo-Irish Trade Agreement—Taoiseach's Statement.

On the 20th August last we received a communication from the British Government pointing out that they were limiting the convertibility of sterling. They indicated that the drawings on the available dollar resources had been increasing at an accelerated pace and that it was vital that what was left should be conserved to the utmost extent. They expressed the view that this was a matter of concern for all the countries in the sterling area and that it was desirable that those countries should come together to consider what action might be taken to see that the demand on dollars should be restricted to the extent that was obviously necessary. We considered the communication. We realised that it was a matter of concern to us that confidence should be preserved in sterling and that it was desirable that the remaining dollar resources should be utilised to the best possible advantage. We considered, however, that a narrow financial discussion would not meet the situation. In our view, it was apparent that, if demands on the dollar resources were to be restricted and if severe hardship was to be avoided, it was essential that the productive capacity of each country within the sterling area should be expanded to the utmost and availed of to the utmost. Self-help and mutual help, which were phrases that had become common in connection with the Marshall plan, clearly applied in this particular case. It was clear that, considering Great Britain and ourselves, our productive capacity should be availed of to the utmost and that the things which we needed for the future development of that capacity, if Great Britain could supply them, ought to be supplied in the common interest. Our productive capacity, both on the industrial side and on the agricultural side, was in question. Let us take agriculture first. It was quite clear that our agricultural production could be considerably increased provided we could obtain the necessary fertilisers, of which we were in great need owing to the shortage during the war and to the intensive cropping of our land during the war years. We used to use something like 250,000 tons of artificial manures before the war. During the war years we had available only a fraction of that amount —even last year. Therefore, it was of prime importance to us that our supply of fertilisers should be increased. Similarly, we were short of agricultural implements and agricultural machinery, and, if we were going to increase our agricultural output and make its products available for ourselves and for our neighbours, it was desirable that, to the utmost extent, the shortage of agricultural implements and agricultural machinery should be made good. There was also, of course, the question of feeding stuffs: was it possible by any means to increase the amount of feeding stuffs coming in here? It did not seem likely, but there was a possibility that by examination something might be arrived at in that regard. There was also the question of seeds. We knew that there was a shortage generally of seeds. We knew that in our case, for instance, owing to the fact that we had had a very severe winter, seed wheat was short—the winter variety particularly. In view of these facts, it was a question of seeing whether we could be helped by the British in getting the supplies we needed. Undoubtedly, if we could get these supplies, our agricultural production could be considerably increased. There was, of course, a further matter also—the prices that were to be offered to our farmers so that they might have the inducement which good prices always give.

On the industrial side, there was machinery which we wanted; there were raw materials which we wanted. We wanted a variety of articles of steel and so forth. There again, it was pretty clear that if we got the raw materials— certain machinery, spare parts and replacements which were required—it would help us to increase our own productive capacity, and, in so far as these particular things could be supplied by Britain, there would be no need to make demands on the dollar pool to get them from the dollar countries, particularly the United States. Coal was another obvious example. We wanted coal for productive purposes. We wanted coal even for the transport of agricultural produce. It was clear that if Britain could supply us with coal, in other words, if we could get it from the source from which we normally had got it, we would not need the dollars which were necessary—I think they were about 20,000,000 the previous year—to buy coal from the United States.

Self-sufficiency abú!

These were obviously matters in which we and the British could be of mutual assistance, we in increasing our own particular productivity as a member of the sterling group and they by increasing our productivity, getting from us produce in return for the things which they might be able to give us. We accordingly proposed that there should be a meeting of Ministers of the two countries to discuss this whole situation and to see how far it would be possible for us and for them, each side having due regard to its own particular policy, by a knowledge of what the others were doing and by mutual help, to be of assistance one to the other and to "dove-tail," to use the words used in the communique, on production in so far as that was possible. Our proposal was accepted. Our first meeting was on the 19th September. At that meeting we exchanged views on these general matters and found that there was a considerable amount of agreement. It was then considered that the best thing to do would be to get officials from both Governments to consider in detail the questions that might arise from a consideration of these general principles.

The officials met over a period and dealt with a number of matters in regard to agriculture, manufacturing industry and finance. By the end of October they had come to certain conclusions. We were informed of the discussions, and we felt that we could with profit have another meeting of Ministers. Accordingly, a further meeting was arranged. I think one meeting was held on 3rd November and a second meeting on November the 4th. At those meetings the results of the discussions which had taken place between the officials were examined and reviewed and certain decisions were arrived at. Certain details remained over for settlement. At a second meeting, which was held on the 4th November, the Minister for Industry and Commerce and the Minister for Agriculture met the corresponding British Ministers and examined some of these questions in detail. The results of the discussions can be given to you in a summarised form. You will notice that there are some matters that have not been decided and which are still under discussion at the present time. Not only has it been decided to bring those matters to completion, but also, for the purpose of keeping matters generally under review and taking such appropriate action from time to time as occasion may require, a committee consisting of officials from both sides has been set up. The summary of the results of the discussions between the two Governments will now be circulated to you. It consists of a number of paragraphs and, as I go along, I shall indicate the particular paragraphs to you. I propose when I have read the summary to make a few explanatory remarks upon it.

The first paragraph deals with increased British coal supplies.

COAL: The British Government have undertaken to maintain existing supplies of coal and to provide a substantial additional quantity of coal of reasonable quality in the calendar year 1948.

MACHINERY AND EQUIPMENT: We will receive improved supplies of agricultural machinery and the British Government will endeavour to improve supplies and deliveries of certain other classes of machinery and equipment.

RAW MATERIALS: We will receive increased supplies of certain textile raw materials and may expect improved supplies of steel and components for the manufacture of agricultural machinery. The possibility of making available other supplies to enable our productive capacity to be fully utilised is to be examined in detail.

Can the Taoiseach say what textiles?

What textiles-wool, cotton or silk?

Some of each in all probability.

Or maybe none at all.

FERTILISERS: Apart from the supply of approximately 25,000 tons of sulphate of ammonia which has been allocated to this country under the programme of the International Emergency Food Council, the British Government have agreed to supply 15,000 tons of superphosphate in 1947-48 and to consider urgently the possibility of supplying basic slag as well as of increasing the quantity of superphosphate above 15,000 tons.

SEED: Arrangements have been made with a view to the supply to this country of 50,000 cwts. of seed wheat.

IRISH INDUSTRIAL EXPORTS TO BRITAIN: The admission to Britain of certain industrial exports is to be further discussed.

PRICES FOR AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS: The British Government have agreed to pay increased prices for our agricultural products as follows: fat cattle delivered for immediate slaughter at the usual ports in Britain: (a) fat steers and heifers yielding carcases of A and B grades, an additional 5d. per lb. dressed carcase weight until the end of February, 1948, and 4d. per lb. from the beginning of March unless agreement for a higher price should be reached as a result of further negotiations; (b) fat cows and bulls and animals of manufacturing quality, 2½d. per lb. dressed carcase weight until the end of February, 1948, and 2d. per lb. from the beginning of March unless agreement for a higher price should be reached as a result of further negotiations.

Cow heifers exported for immediate slaughter will be classified with fat steers and heifers, subject to quality as in the case of British-bred beasts.

STORE CATTLE: Store cattle retained for more than two months on farms in Britain and the Six Counties will qualify for the quality premium paid for their home-bred animals. This premium is at present at the rate of 2/6 per live cwt.

The above increases will operate in accordance with schedules and dates to be announced as soon as possible.

The total number of cattle to be exported from Ireland to continental countries as from 1st February, 1948, will be the subject of consultation between the Department of Agriculture and the British Ministry of Food.

MEAT: Increased prices will be paid for beef shipped in dressed carcase and for canned meat; the extent of the increase is still under discussion. It is hoped to make an early announcement on the subject.

SHEEP AND LAMBS: Increased prices were offered for fat sheep and lambs and for sheep and lamb carcases. As there is not at present an exportable surplus the discussions were not brought to a conclusion. The matter will, however, be further discussed when supplies become available for export.

BACON: Bacon is not likely to be available for export for some time and, with so much uncertainty as to the supply and price of feeding stuffs, a definite offer could not be made. The British Government have, however, agreed in principle to negotiate a contract which would give Irish producers an assured market over a number of years.

EGGS: The existing egg contract with the British Ministry of Food— that is, the 1947-50 contract—will be stepped forward one year so that its duration will be from the 1st February, 1948, to the 31st January, 1951. The principle of a sliding scale of prices for prescribed minimum quantities will be continued, but in 1948-49 the minimum quantities required to qualify for the prices fixed under the existing contract will be less than those prescribed for 1947-48.

In addition, the Ministry of Food propose to pay in the form of an extra price per long hundred for a period to be agreed, a proportion of the cost incurred by the Irish Government in promoting an agreed scheme for the development of the Irish poultry industry. This proposal was agreed to in principle. It was arranged that the details of such a scheme and the extent of the Ministry of Food's contribution would be discussed soon at a conference in Dublin between representatives of the Department of Agriculture and of the Ministry of Food. It is expected that if a satisfactory scheme on the lines suggested can be evolved producers will be enabled to obtain higher prices.

TURKEYS: The Ministry of Food will this year pay to the exporting organisation here the same prices for Irish turkeys as for their home-bred turkeys.

SEED POTATOES: The Ministry of Food will pay the following prices per ton f.o.b. for seed potatoes of the 1947 crop:—

Group

Price

I

307s. 6d.

II

280s. 0d.

III

255s. 0d.

IV

235s. 0d.

These prices represent an increase of 33s. 0d. per ton compared with those paid last season.

FLAX: The following prices will be paid for hand-scutched flax of the 1948 crop:—

Grade

Price per Stone

1

40s. 6d.

2

39s. 0d.

3

37s. 6d.

4

36s. 0d.

5

34s. 6d.

6

33s. 0d.

The prices payable for turbinescutched flax of the 1948 crop will be 1s. 6d. per stone higher than the above prices. These prices represent an increase of 8s. 9d. per stone over those paid for the 1947 crop.

IRELAND'S DOLLAR REQUIREMENTS: It was agreed that the Irish Government, with a view to conserving the dollar resources of the sterling area, would effect substantial reductions in their drawings of dollars from the dollar pool for the period 1st October, 1947, to 30th June, 1948, bringing the net requirements to £14,000,000 plus Irish dollar earnings. This sum would be further reduced in the event of non-dollar wheat being procurable instead of dollar wheat. Expenditure in other currencies will also be kept to a minimum during the period.

That gives you a summary of the results arrived at up to the present. As Deputies will notice, there are certain matters which are still under discussion. I should like to add that the reduction in our dollar drawings will mean that we will have to restrict our purchases to commodities which are essential to our economy, unless we are able to increase our dollar earnings or to substitute, as far as may be practicable, other imports for supplies hitherto paid for in dollars or other hard currencies. Our aim will be to avoid any serious restriction in the supplies of the goods necessary to our economy. A reduction in the consumption of petrol will, however, after the present ration period is over, be unavoidable, and the Government is considering how best this may be effected. Foreign exchange facilities for travel abroad will also have to be curtailed and an announcement in this regard will be made in a few days. The increased allocation of British coal will be adequate to enable us to stop purchasing more expensive coal from the United States, apart from small quantities of certain special types of fuel. We have also decided to withhold dollars for the purchase of tobacco, apart from any commitments already entered into. We shall still be able to maintain consumption at the present level, but in order to do so we shall have to eat into our existing stocks.

It is important that development dependent on United States equipment is not slowed up, and, in so far as our reduced drawings of dollars from the sterling pool may be insufficient to meet expenditure for the development of our productive capacity or the purchase of machinery and equipment not obtainable from non-dollar resources, we are considering the possibility of making arrangements outside the sterling pool. We are considering whether we should not, for example, become members of the International Monetary Fund and the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development.

I think that gives the Dáil a fair picture of the situation as it is up to the present. It is not a situation that has been ended; it is not a static situation; and for that reason this joint committee has been set up, as I have already indicated, to examine developments from day to day. It is clear that the measures will tend to increase our productive capacity and, in so far as we are getting from Britain things which formerly we were compelled to get from the United States, it will enable us to dispense with drawings upon dollars. We think that the measures being taken will not or ought not in any way to restrict our capital development. At this stage, I think I should not say any more. It would be desirable now to know whether Deputies wish to continue the discussion at this stage or whether they would prefer to think over these matters and postpone the discussion until Wednesday.

Could we ask the Taoiseach a few questions by way of a clarification of the statement?

I should like to inquire whether the Taoiseach could give us some idea as to what the restriction on our drawings on the dollar pool between October, 1947, and June, 1948, to £14,000,000 will mean in respect of our purchases in the dollar area; in other words, what will we be restricted to purchasing; what restrictions will be imposed on our present purchasing level in this country, apart from tobacco and petrol, which he has indicated will be reduced, and apart from the possibility that we may not need now to import as much coal from the United States in view of the possibility that British coal may be made available in increasing quantities.

What the Deputy has indicated will make a considerable saving in our dollar purchases. So far as restrictions are concerned, we will try to see that restrictions are applied to things that are not essential; but the main thing that we are anxious about is to see that things that we regard as essential will be got. The things in which there will have to be curtailment will be those regarded as non-essential.

Do we propose to buy textiles?

How much did we draw from the dollar pool during the last six months?

I would have to get notice in order to give the exact figure.

From what date will the new prices for cattle commence?

The schedules will be announced almost immediately.

There is a lot of stock ready to be shipped.

We have been pressing to get this matter brought to a conclusion.

Will it be next week? There are a lot of cattle around Dublin awaiting shipment.

All I can say to the Deputy is that we realise the importance of getting these things done as quickly as we can but when there are two parties to the transactions, it is not so easy.

The weather is very bad and the stock are deteriorating every hour.

We are pressing these matters as much as we can.

I am not too clear in regard to the arrangement about store cattle. Does this mean that the 5/- a head remains on our cattle or that our cattle are not classified now as imported or foreign?

No, the old differential remains to a certain extent. The really important thing, as the Deputy will realise, was that there were old cattle——

That is not the point. At present all our cattle are classified as foreign in England and there is a differential of 5/- per cwt. Is that 5/- done away with?

There is a certain part of the differential remaining.

It is only 2/6?

If the Deputy reads the statement carefully——

I have read it carefully.

Might we not have a discussion on the statement now?

On that question, I think it would be convenient to have the discussion next week. It would be more informative if we had an opportunity of considering this matter and perhaps it could be arranged that we could discuss it on Wednesday next. The Taoiseach indicated that there had been a survey of Irish agricultural productivity. I understand from some Press references that Dr. Menzies Kitchin of Cambridge and Dr. Roeburn of Oxford visited this country on behalf of the British Government to make a report on the productive capacity of Ireland. It was suggested that that report was for the purpose of the discussions that were going on between the Irish Government and the British Government. I should like to ask the Taoiseach if, for the purposes of the discussions next Wednesday, copies of that report could be made available to Leaders of the Opposition Parties for examination.

There was a report made to the British Government but it was a confidential report. As a matter of courtesy, we got copies for ourselves, but I would have to ask whether these could be made available in the way the Deputy suggests.

I suggest that if, through even the operation of the agricultural institutes of Cambridge and Oxford, a report has been made to the British Government on the agricultural capacity of this country, it is desirable that a report as important as that should be made public.

I have told the Deputy what the position is. I would have to make inquiries to find out what might be done.

Would the Taoiseach make such inquiries?

I shall make inquiries.

In view of the fact that, I take it, we are still members of the British Commonwealth of Nations, I should like to know from the Taoiseach has he considered the advisability of purchasing some of the commodities formerly purchased from hard currency countries, such as seed wheat, from countries within the Commonwealth?

That is mentioned in the case of wheat.

I should like to inquire of the Taoiseach if he realises the confusion that is liable to be caused by the announcement that certain textiles are to be delivered here. Does this refer to cotton and wool for weaving into textiles or does it mean textiles?

Raw materials and yarns.

Will we receive other textiles——

Garments.

We are not going to get other textiles under this arrangement. Does the announcement that we are going to draw 15,000 tons of "super" from Great Britain this year imply that if we can get supplies from Belgium, which is a soft currency country——

It is not now a soft currency country. It has become one of the hardest.

Or, has it? Of course the poor "yobs" do not know the difference between hard and soft currency. Is Belgium not in the sterling group?

Has it a gold currency? It is not a gold or dollar currency.

It is not a soft currency. We have in fact obtained some artificial fertilisers from Belgium this year.

Mr. Corish

In the matter of fuel supplies, would the Taoiseach say what the prospects are of obtaining some foundry coke and what the results of his representations, if any, in that respect have been? I raised the matter from the point of view that it would be more desirable if we could make our agricultural machinery here rather than bring it over at bigger prices.

The Deputy can be assured that every place wherever there was a hope of getting coke, we did our best to get it. It is one of the very scarcest commodities. If the Deputy reads the report of the committee of the 16 nations which met in Paris he will find that it is one of the scarcest of all the fundamental commodities. When in France I tried to make some inquiries in regard to it but hands went up immediately I mentioned coke.

Can the Taoiseach say what quantity of British coal we are likely to get in 1948?

I can only tell the Deputy that we believe it will be sufficient to enable us to dispense immediately with the necessity of getting coal from America.

We have been getting three-quarters of a million from abroad this year. How much will we get from Britain?

I cannot go closely into the matter, but we are satisfied that the amount will be sufficient to enable us to dispense with purchases of the dearer coal from America, apart, as I have said, from small quantities of certain types of fuel. One thing I should like to say is that even by the fact of getting this quantity of coal, we shall still be very far short of getting what our normal supply would be and it is therefore vital for us to increase our supplies of turf.

Is it the intention of the Government to recognise the fact that the agricultural industry have a right to preferential treatment in regard to the raw material bought with the foreign exchange that has accrued abroad, say from the 23,700 animals sent to Belgium?

Does the Deputy wish to buy maize instead of wheat?

You could not buy wheat or maize from Belgium. I want to know how we are going to utilise the credits due to the country abroad.

There is one small fraction of our coal supplies which comes in here in the form of smith's coal for the country blacksmith. If we could get a sufficient quantity of a quality that would burn on the blacksmith's hearth, the lives of a great many small people would be fundamentally altered. I am informed that the British Coal Controller, if asked, will send us a reasonably high standard of smith's coal, which is now mainly used in the Navy. If the Minister for Industry and Commerce would come down from the lofty Olympus where he dwells and interest himself in the few tons of smith's coal coming into this country, and stipulate only that it would be of a kind that would heat a horseshoe without blowing the bellows all the time——

The Deputy has no idea what he is talking about.

I not only know what I am talking about, but I actually sell the coal and I like it and I went and asked the British about it. If the Minister would do as much as I did, he might get more.

One dozen times it has been done.

Perhaps the Minister will tell us if the postponing of this discussion for a week will mean the putting back of shipments of cattle?

The schedules will be announced as soon as possible.

Can we be assured that the 50,000 cwts. of seed wheat mentioned here, which represent 400,000 barrels, will be available for the growing of wheat here next year?

Arrangements have been made for the supply of 50,000 cwts. of seed wheat.

I think the Government should go further and should ensure the supply of a greater quantity of seed wheat. Many of the samples of wheat this year were not up to the required quality.

The Taoiseach stated that the dollar pool will consist of £14,000,000 sterling plus Irish dollar earnings. Could he give us any idea of what the Irish dollar earnings in that period will be?

I could not give that information just now.

With regard to seed wheat, is the Minister aware there is not a barrel of winter seed wheat available? I have ground ready and I cannot get the seed wheat to put into it.

I understand that deliveries have begun.

What time will be allocated for the discussion on Wednesday?

The Whips will discuss that.

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