asked the Taoiseach whether he is aware that Deputy Davin quoted in the Dáil on May 19th (col. 1729, No. 13, Vol. 110), the exact text of a minute of a Ministerial Conference held in the Department of Industry and Commerce on February 12th, 1948; if he considers it to be desirable that private Deputies should have access to confidential Departmental records and to what extent he has authorised, or proposes to authorise, this practice; if he will arrange for similar facilities to be made available to all Deputies, and whether he proposes, in accordance with precedent, to place in the Dáil Library a copy of the document quoted by Deputy Davin.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Deputy's Dáil Quotation.
I am aware that, on the occasion referred to in the question, Deputy Davin quoted a short extract from the record of a conference held in the Department of Industry and Commerce on the 12th February last. The substance of the extract had been included in an official statement issued by the Minister for Industry and Commerce on the 3rd April, and, in view of that fact, Deputy Davin was informed, at his request, of the terms of the passage which he quoted. He did not, however, have access to the Departmental records. No practice has been authorised whereby private Deputies would have access to confidential Departmental records, nor is it proposed to authorise such a practice.
Deputy Davin made it perfectly clear on the occasion referred to that he was reading the extract from his own notes. The question of placing in the Dáil Library the full record of the conference held on the 12th February does not, therefore, arise out of these circumstances, but I would refer the Deputy to what was said in this regard by the Ministers for Finance and Industry and Commerce on the 25th ultimo (column 2074 of the Official Report).
May I ask the Taoiseach if it is proposed to give to other Deputies in this House the same facilities as were given to Deputy Davin?
The facility that was given to Deputy Davin was that the official record was quoted. The substance of the official record was quoted in the evening papers. Similar courtesies will be given to any Deputy who applies to the Department in similar circumstances.
If a Minister makes a public statement which gives the substance of an official record, the exact text will be supplied to a Deputy on request?
Certainly not. Official records, as the Deputy knows full well, are privileged documents, and I have no intention of giving such access to privileged documents.
Did I understand the Taoiseach to say that because the Minister for Industry and Commerce had given the substance of an official document in a public statement, the exact text was supplied to Deputy Davin? Will the same facility be given to any other Deputy who applies?
The exact text was not given to Deputy Davin.
How did he come to be in possession of the exact text?
I have already said that Deputy Davin was not in possession of the exact text. If the Deputy will look at the record of the Official Debates on that occasion he will see the manner in which Deputy Davin quoted from his record.
May I ask the Taoiseach to ascertain from Deputy Lemass if he is, in the national interest, prepared to supply or disclose to the Taoiseach the sources of the confidential Departmental information which has been utilised and published in the daily newspaper of which Deputy Lemass is the managing director?
Am I in order in replying to that question now?
Yes.
It will be interesting to hear it.
In reply to the Deputy's question, may I say that no confidention Departmental information has at any stage been supplied to me by an official of the Department of Industry and Commerce or any other Department.
To your newspaper?
Question No. 2.
Arising out of the question, did I understand the Taoiseach to say that Deputy Davin on request was supplied with the text of certain passages in the records of this Departmental conference? I should like the Taoiseach to answer that.
Deputy Davin, I understand, rang up an official in the Department of Industry and Commerce and referred to a particular passage in an official statement that had been issued from the Department of Industry and Commerce. As that statement that had been issued contained not merely the substance but almost the words of what was in the particular passage in the Departmental record, the official concerned gave him the substance again.
Am I to understand that the extract from the official document was given to Deputy Davin by the official without authority or permission?
Not without authority or permission, but, in the circumstances, he was entitled to do it as it was in accordance with the statement.
Am I to understand that the Taoiseach is telling the House that a passage from this record was read over the telephone to Deputy Davin?
No.
That it was read slowly and that Deputy Davin was in a position to make a full and correct note of that passage?
It was not read over the telephone, and if the Deputy would take the trouble to read the Departmental document that was published in the Press on behalf of the Minister for Industry and Commerce in reference to this matter, he would see that precisely the same information was disclosed to the public as was disclosed to Deputy Davin.
Is the Minister aware that the official minute revealed to Deputy Davin contradicts the official statement made by the Minister for Industry and Commerce?
I am aware of precisely the contrary. If you will read the official statement you will see that.
Read it again.
Will the Deputy disclose the sources of information of the Irish Press?
They are multitudinous and accurate.
It does not arise.
Misappropriated information.
Will the Minister allow me to call the next question?