Deputy Kissane has made a very reasoned presentation of his case. He has the advantage of being musically inclined and musically equipped. He is able to talk with a certain amount of authority on the aspect of the question to which he directed his attention. I must, however, preface my remarks by saying that I labour under a disadvantage, not being, not pretending to be, an authority upon any matters musical. My references in this speech to questions of the orchestra and organisation of Radio Éireann on a musical basis are second-hand. I have no firsthand knowledge of these matters. I think, however, it is my duty as a Deputy to relate to the Minister some of the opinions, as far as I am able to comprehend them, that agitate certain musical circles.
Deputy Kissane quite rightly referred to the necessity of continuing a search for Irish talent — in one particular direction. That search should be extended. There has been in operation under the Department's organisation a mobile unit. I understand that this unit did fairly good work with regard to searching out local talent which naturally enough has always a far higher opinion of its own standards and accomplishments, than might be held by others more competent to judge the issue. While the mobile unit did very effective work in some respects in giving encouragement to singers and other musicians in the different parts they visited, in some cases, I understand, they left an impression behind them that some of those to whom they gave an audience would receive further opportunities for having their voice or their music on the air. There must be a long time-lag between the making of these promises and their effective carrying out. To give a specific case, there is in Dundalk a fairly promising singer by name Seán MacManus, a young factory worker, who received kind consideration from the mobile unit. He was put on the air and that was a very considerable encouragement to him for which the organisers of the mobile unit deserve quite good credit. This, however, should be followed up by a fairly quick decision in many of these cases, kind words of advice as to further improvement or the necessity for further training, or if promises have been made that actual broadcast engagements would be given these promises should be honoured.
It is a very important thing, I think, that the Minister in this country should act as the patron of the musical arts. He himself may suffer from the same disability as I do. He may be as non-musical as I am, but still he has a duty to the country to foster musical art and to encourage the young aspirants to develop their talent and make it possible for them to continue the high repute Irish singers and musicians have throughout the world. That can only be done by the extension of the functions of that mobile unit, by continuing auditions for the different types of musicians, those who go to build up orchestras and the list of people who are able to provide musical entertainment on the air. How true it is I am not in a position to state because I have very little time myself to listen in to Radio Éireann, but the opinion in the country among musical circles is that there exists in Dublin a small group of musicians and singers who have a practical monopoly of the air, that they have unfair preference in the matter of time and that they receive too many and too frequent engagements to the exclusion of competent musicians, singers and other entertainers down the country who have not such immediate access to the powers that be in Broadcasting House. If there is any substance in that complaint it certainly should be remedied. The Minister as far as patronage is involved, should extend it over the widest possible field. The only way many of these musicians, entertainers and singers down the country can establish their position in reasonable time and without the great labours involved for some of their predecessors in the arts is to obtain engagements in Radio Éireann. Engagements in Radio Éireann are looked upon as very high prizes for which these people are willing to undertake very severe work and training so that they may be qualified to go on the air. Therefore I think the Minister should investigate this complaint as to whether there is or is not a group in Dublin who have a monopoly of the air.
With regard to the general position of Radio Éireann, there would appear to be a necessity for further capital expenditure. There would appear to be a necessity for further expenditure of State funds on its equipment. It was designed for certain limited fields but, with the growth of our broadcasting and with the growth of our needs over the air, we certainly should look to many of the technical points that appear to require revision at this stage. I have reports from many of my friends on the east coast of England, and in London and in Great Britain generally, that reception of Athlone is very poor and in some cases non-existent. The Minister can understand the importance of having the widest possible reception area for Radio Éireann at the present time— particularly in so far as Great Britain is concerned. That may involve very heavy expenditure and it may require long consideration.
However, there are other matters to which the Minister might direct his attention and which would not require anything like the expenditure that might be envisaged in the technical reequipment of the Station generally. There is, I understand, a very poor standard of equipment in the studios generally. They could be brought up to date and without a very high rate of expenditure. I understand that the studios themselves are poorly ventilated and are, generally speaking, very inferior compared with studios in other stations. The atmosphere in studios is oppressive at the best of times to the artists, musicians, speakers and those other people who have to use them. In this modern age, with all the scientific apparatus that is at our disposal, it appears to be unnecessarily crude and cruel that artists should suffer under such conditions. We cannot, in these circumstances, expect their best from them. If the State is paying their fees the State is responsible for giving them the best conditions so that they may give the very best of their talents and of their arts to the listeners who have paid for their broadcasting licences.
A lot could be said about the organisation of the orchestra itself. I believe that in that connection, too, there are many defects that might be remedied by the Minister. The Minister has taken quite a lot of interest in the matter. He has listened to representations on most of the points that I have raised very briefly but he should carry his interest further by implementing some of the ideas that have been presented to him. I understand that this orchestra of ours is unique in many respects among modern orchestras. Most of these respects are negative respects. There is in Radio Éireann no manager for the proper management of the orchestra. For orchestras of the size of our orchestra there is necessity for a full-time manager. That manager would have many functions. I need not go into the details but it will surprise most of us to hear that there is no manager for a staff of the demensions of this orchestra staff. The manager, in addition to his ordinary managerial functions, has also a diplomatic function which might promote a great deal more harmony and goodwill in the Radio Éireann orchestra than appears to exist at present. He should come as a buffer, to some extent, between the members of the orchestra, the conductors and the other authorities who come into contact with these members in different respects.
There is, further, no full-time librarian attached to the orchestra. That is another post which should be filled. With the growth and development of the orchestra it has become a necessity to have such a post. When the orchestra was small, in the more youthful stage of its development, that post used to be a part-time post. The work could then be done by some member of the orchestra but, I understand, that now it involves such duties that a full-time official could easily fill that post and be very well occupied.
Of still greater importance than either of these two points is the fact that we do not appear to have what these musically knowledgeable gentlemen call a balance and control officer. The function of this officer is a very important one. The lack of such an officer, musically educated, may in many cases—and has done, I understand—destroyed completely the full effects of very fine artistic renderings. This balance and control officer who not only be a technical officer who understands the electronic part of the business but he should be one who is musically trained. He must be a musician. He must be able to follow the score and relate the output of the station to the variations in the musical score. If that is not done—if he has no understanding of the amount of emphasis or accent or tone that should be given—then it is quite obvious that the very best rendering of the song or of any musical composition could be destroyed by his handling of the various gadgets or controls that release the volume of sound to the listeners.
The orchestra, as a whole, is mixed in its composition. There are both native musicians and foreign musicians in it. The question actually arises then as to whether the proportion between these is correct—whether our native musicians are encouraged and whether the best use is being made of the foreign musicians who are at present engaged in the orchestra. I am not by any means averse to the employment of foreign musicians. I think that if a proper balance is kept up it should be a permanent feature of not only this orchestra but of any orchestra in any country. Theoretically, I think it is correct because music is one of the international arts and there should be interchange and exchange of the competent musicians of different countries. However, we in this House —apart from our musical or lack of musical prejudices—have the right and the duty to see that our native musicians are encouraged. It is said that there is a lack of instrumentalists of various kinds who are required to keep the orchestra up to strength but there does not appear to be sufficient attention given to attracting these musicians to the orchestra — to give them auditions and to give them places on the orchestra.
I should like to know something in detail about the composition of the orchestra and perhaps the Minister will be kind enough to answer my question. I understand from those who are in a position to know that the average age of the members of our orchestra is extremely high compared with the average age of the members of other orchestras. On that point I wish to be enlightened. The Minister might inform the House as to the number of instrumentalists in his orchestra who are over 60, who are over 65 and who are over 70. He might, further, tell us the average age of the members of this orchestra and how that average age compares with the average age of members of other orchestras.
This leads me to a reconsideration of the pension position. There would appear to be no valid reason for the retention, on the orchestra, of those who like all of us at a certain time reach an age when we are beyond our labour. There are doubts expressed as to whether a certain section of the orchestra could not be improved by the introduction of younger blood. The Minister's position, I know, is extremely difficult in reference to what will be done with this, but if a generous pension scheme, or a more generous scheme than that which exists at present were worked out the position in relation to that question might be made much easier.
In reference to the work and the organisations of the orchestra there are complaints that the members of the orchestra are worked too much like civil servants. We can all have sympathy with the members of the orchestra who are artistes and are not like ordinary human beings. They are very temperamental in their outlook and their mode of work. They are capable of excessive and highly sustained efforts for a short period, and then may not be inclined to follow the ordinary humdrum routine for a considerable time thereafter.
I know it is very difficult, from the point of view of the Department, to organise the work of the orchestra, but the system that obtains at present appears to be unsatisfactory as far as their positions are concerned. Their hours of work are too long. They are worked in excess of the hours that should be applicable to people of their talents and of their position in the musical world. I would like the Minister to investigate that question. He is, I know, very sympathetic on this matter. He would not, I think, like to be unfair to the orchestra, and yet he would like that proper value should be given by the members of it for the remuneration that they obtain from the State. I hope the Minister will look into that matter and examine it, and so it may be possible to obtain a solution which will be agreeable both to the musicians and their organisation on the one hand and the departmental heads on the other.
In reference to musicians of foreign birth who are here, I should like the Minister to tell us whether there is any obligation on them to impart their skill and technique to native musicians, whether it has been made part of their contract that they should do a certain amount of teaching, or whether they are here just as instrumentalists to do their work and then depart. I think that, if we want to develop the musical art in this country, we should have the best foreign musicians. We should take them and treat them in the very best manner and give them the highest remuneration that we can possibly afford, but we should make it a duty on their part to do a certain amount of teaching so that in due course our musicians will be brought up to the standard which they themselves are able to exhibit at present.
The same consideration arises in reference to conductors who have been employed by Radio Eireann. I have no objection, and I am sure very few members of the House who have any cultural outlook at all have any objection, to the employment of foreign conductors for a limited period to do a certain line of work. The only objection there could be, I think, would be on the basis that I have already made in reference to the instrumentalists. These foreign conductors, if they are to be employed by us, should be of first-class quality. I understand that, from time to time we have had foreign conductors of very inferior class. Criticism has been made that some of them are third rate, or even lower than that. That is not good enough. Some of those foreign conductors are held in the highest degree in their own country. They are internationally recognised, and have cast a certain amount of credit on Radio Éireann and on Radio Éireann orchestra by acting as conductors to it, but that does not apply to all those who have been employed.
I submit, of course, that it is possible to make a mistake. It is not always possible to get musicians of the first water, but, as far as possible, the foreign conductors should be of the highest standing in their own country, and the Minister should be prepared to make the fees and the conditions of employment attractive enough to secure for us the services of the best conductors in foreign countries. At the same time, there should be an obligation on them, while they are here, to train some of our young Irish conductors, to impart to them the knowledge that they themselves have acquired. I think that most of them would be delighted to do so, and would consider it an honour to act as instructors. These young conductors. our native conductors, should be given an opportunity of doing work under these high-class foreign conductors. I think it is a valid criticism to say that the Department is not over-generous in reference to the employment of Irish conductors. They are not given a sufficient opportunity of earning their daily bread by music. Their engagements are very haphazard. They are given a few concerts at very extended intervals and under conditions which would not apply to the more high-class foreign conductors. They labour under disadvantages that we would not think of compelling foreign conductors to labour under. That is a matter that can be remedied, and I suggest to the Minister who is sympathetically inclined, to take steps to remedy it. I have indicated some of the offices that should be filled in a properly equipped modern orchestra, and I think the Minister could find some of the younger conductors who might fill these offices while they are studying and preparing to become conductors. No one will expect these younger conductors of ours, no matter what their musical talents may be, to get the best out of the orchestra when they are given fewer rehearsals, as I understand is the case, than the more seasoned and experienced foreign conductors. If anything, it should be the other way about. They should be given sufficient encouragement and the greatest possible latitude to build up their work and, in addition, every opportunity should be given them of keeping close to the musical field by earning their living some way or other in relation to music. If there is any way, directly within the orchestra, or indirectly, by which the Minister can assist them, as the patron of the art of music, the Minister should do so.
There is another aspect of the case which should be examined by the Minister, that is, the question of the resumption of public concerts which were a delight to the public, which were very popular and which, for some reason or another, best known to the Department, have been abandoned. The value of these public concerts is considerable. Not only are they of great value and interest to the public generally but they are a check upon the orchestra, on the conductors and on the organisation of Radio Éireann because the public is the best judge. If they do not like a concert or do not like the programme that is planned for their enjoyment, they will not patronise the concert. They will not pay their money. In that way, there is an effective guide and an effective judge and a restriction, if the type of music offered is inferior or not sufficiently popular and an inducement and encouragement where the organisation of the concert and the programme merit the public's endorsement.
The Minister might supply us with some of the figures in reference to the concerts to let us see whether there is any valid excuse for their abandonment or not. It has been held that the last series of concerts was a financial flop. If that is so, we are entitled to have some of the figures over a number of years to see what was the position. Some of the concerts, I understand, were a financial success. Others were the reverse. If we had the figures, we would be in a position to judge what type of concert and what type of organiser was the more acceptable to the public. Even if there were a financial loss on some of these concerts, the Department should be able to stand that loss. I do not think the loss would be very excessive. There are large sections of the public who, from time to time, would like to see the orchestra in action. They have listened to the orchestra perhaps quite often. They may be very good instrumentalists themselves and they would like actually to see the performers. These public concerts give them an opportunity of doing that. They give those who are really interested, who are interested enough to pay money to gratify their desire, to see the orchestra in action.
These concerts, I believe, were introduced by Captain Michael Bowles, who was one of the conductors of Radio Éireann. Some of the concerts under his baton were quite successful. I would urge the Minister to consider sympathetically the question of resuming the public concerts for the delight of the public.
I mentioned Captain Michael Bowles. I might say that around him in Dublin musical circles there appears to be quite an amount of talk, at least, or friction or conflict of one from or another. Into this I do not propose to go. As the Minister knows, and I know, many of these musicians are very highly temperamental and they are probably beyond our competence as ordinary human beings to understand. There have been difficulties between Captain Bowles and the authorities in the Department, between the Civil Service and between, perhaps, fellow musicians. There have been difficult passages at times but, while we should not ignore these things, while we should not try to smother them or pretend they do not exist, the Minister has a duty to solve these difficulties and to utilise whatever talent lies in this country, to utilise the abilities of a conductor of the quality of Captain Michael Bowles to the best advantage of the country and to his own best advantage. The Minister has that duty to perform. He has, I think, gone to the other extreme compared with the ex-Minister.
The ex-Minister, as far as I can gather from those who are interested in Radio Éireann and the orchestra, was too apt to interfere, correctly or incorrectly is immaterial to me. He considered himself a judge of music. He considered himself competent to deal with musical matters. That, perhaps, led him unduly to interfere in the organisation of the orchestra and what they might do and unduly to influence them, perhaps, in what he considered was the best fare to give the public. That may be open to criticism. It may be a good thing or it may be the reverse. I am not saying it is one or the other. It is immaterial to my argument at the moment. Now it appears that the present Minister is going in the opposite direction and that though he may have real sympathy with the case and the various aspects of the organisation of the orchestra, the question of the conductors and the instrumentalists and all that, and the very technical difficulties that exist there, he does not appear to be giving the amount of interest to it that would be required of a Minister. Too much indifference may be as bad as too much interference. The Minister should take a more kindly interest. He has taken an interest, I want it to be understood, in the affairs of the orchestra but it is not evident to many people who are in the orchestra or to those who are interested in it or to the wide circle around the orchestra that the Minister is as interested in it as is actually the case. He should give greater prominence to his own interest in these matters.
I may have said many things which were not very constructive. I explained to the Minister in the beginning, and I reiterate, that what I have given to him I have given as a duty, second-hand, as I can speak from no personal experience of these matters and no trained knowledge of music. To that extent, what I have said is merely a recital to the Minister of the views of those whom I have attempted, very inefficiently, to interpret to him to-day.
There is one matter on which I might make a constructive suggestion, to finish this contribution of mine. It is in a field where I am more at home. The question of the value of the broadcasting station as a propagandist agency arises. It might consume quite a considerable amount of our time, but I want to put only this one aspect of it before the Minister. We wish as Irishmen, anxious to obtain the unity of our country and to extend the jurisdiction of our Republic, to attract the greatest attention to Radio Éireann, to our broadcasting agency. It is essential, I think, that we should make our broadcasts more attractive to the people of the North. I submit that we do not give sufficient attention to the matter of directing the beam of our subject matter to the North. It could be quite easily effected by a Northern News item, or a news time could be worked out which would attract the attention of those in the North. We have the ordinary news item which covers most of the affairs in the South, but it is surely possible that, with correspondents in the North, we could have a late news item or a news service, for half an hour or so, which would give prominence to events in the North—not necessarily of a propagandist nature. Ordinary everyday events may be broadcast, somewhat on the style, though with a different slant and a different object, of the B.B.C. Northern News Service. They have these Regional News Services and, to my mind, this would be a very effective means of bringing the attention of the people of the North to Athlone and Radio Éireann. If it is said that they are already fully keyed up to listening to Radio Éireann, then we owe them some return, by giving them special news items or by reporting special events in the North, even if it is only a report of the Twelfth of July Celebrations. Even that might figure well in a Northern News item. We might give it an entirely different slant, or we might exhibit it in a way that it has not been exhibited before, though that might be a very contentious matter. Seriously, however, there are items of importance from day to day and from week to week, occurring in the North, that receive scant attention from Radio Eireann, which is too concerned with events here in the South and does not throw its eye over the whole of Ireland, as it might well do. In conclusion, therefore, I would ask the Minister seriously to consider the advisability of incorporating in the programme at some time suitable to the North a special Northern News edition.
