Private Deputies' Business. - Provision of Athletic Grounds—Motion (Resumed). – Dáil Éireann (13th Dáil) – Wednesday, 2 Nov 1949

Private Deputies' Business. - Provision of Athletic Grounds—Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:—

That Dáil Éireann is of opinion that recreation grounds for athletics and the encouragement of physical culture should be provided for youths and adults.

Captain Cowan

When the debate on this motion was adjourned, I was recommending to the Minister that, particularly in cities and towns, recreation grounds should be made available in all housing schemes so that the children and the youth of the area might have an opportunity of indulging in healthy, physical exercise. I pointed out that where such recreation grounds had been made available by the Corporation of Dublin in the Marino area, they were acquired during the emergency for other purposes and were not available for the youth of the locality. As a result, we saw from time to time young children brought up in court for playing games on the roads and streets in the area, simply and solely because they were unable to go in on those corporation recreation grounds and play their games there.

Another great defect in those housing schemes is that no provision is made for halls or gymnasia. Boxing, particularly, is a very popular recreation in the City of Dublin and we have many very fine boxing clubs endeavouring to carry on the training of young boxers in places that are entirely unsuitable. I would suggest to the Minister that, in addition to the outdoor recreation grounds, there ought to be made available in those housing schemes a hall or gymnasium in which young athletes and young boxers may train.

In the part of Dublin with which I, am most familiar—my own constituency—I was approached recently by a public-spirited citizen who is anxious to provide facilities for a recreation hall for a number of young boys in his locality. One was not available and he made the suggestion that he himself, at his own cost, would erect a temporary hall in his own premises, to be utilised for athletic training and the amusement of the young boys of that locality. The corporation felt that they could not give the facility and the result is that that group of young boys is deprived of facilities that ought to be available for them in the community.

As I said at the beginning, Deputy Dr. Brennan and Deputy Fitzpatrick are to be congratulated on bringing this motion before the House. I know it will receive the sympathetic consideration of the Minister but I would impress on him, as Deputy Michael O'Higgins has done, that those recreation facilities, to be provided where new housing schemes are developed, should go ahead at the same time as the house-building, so that when the houses are occupied, the recreation grounds or the local gymnasium or hall will be available for the children and youth of the area. With those words, I recommend this motion to the sympathetic consideration of the Minister.

Minister for Local Government (Mr. Keyes)

At the outset, let me say that I am in general agreement with the terms of the motion as moved and with the speakers who have supported it. I have never participated in a more pleasant discussion than that on this motion. I am particularly keen on the development of athletics and the provision of suitable recreation grounds for the youth of the country. I am glad to see that that attitude seems to be pretty widespread. It would naturally be expected amongst Irish people and particularly amongst local authorities and I believe that a good deal is being done in that direction, notwithstanding the fact that we have had some complaints that enough is not being done.

Very ample authority is already vested in local authorities for the provision of suitable recreation grounds, playing fields for children, and so on, in various localities. Dublin was stressed here by some of the speakers and I think it only fair to mention some of the things that Dublin has actually been doing. Naturally, the metropolis, with a big aggregation of population, is expected to give the biggest drive. To my mind, they have been doing pretty well in Dublin and correspondingly well throughout the country.

In Dublin, space for amenities such as we have been discussing has been reserved at Ellenfield and at Crumlin, and lands will shortly be laid out in the Cabra West area to provide for a small park, playground and athletic pitches to serve the large housing schemes in that area. An open space for a park and provision for athletic grounds is also being provided in the extension of the housing schemes now being undertaken in Crumlin South. Similar facilities are to be provided at Crumlin Road on grounds acquired from the Imperial Tobacco Company and also on sites at Dolphin's Barn. Space for a park or playing fields of about 13½ acres is reserved in the Sarsfield Road housing scheme. Similar provision is being made at Donnycarney. In connection with St. Anne's at Raheny, very ample provision is being made on that estate for recreation fields.

That is just a synopsis of what is being done in Dublin. The development is not confined to Dublin alone and local authorities seem to be very wide awake to the necessity for these amenities. Sligo deserves honourable mention: they have secured an estate for development as a recreational park and river walks are being provided by the local authorities. I can say the same for Limerick, where they have provided sports pitches, children's playing fields and swimming baths.

There is also power in the hands of local authorities to provide recreation halls, such as have been suggested by speakers to this motion. Power is given to local authorities under various Acts. In the first instance, they have it under the Town Planning Acts. The housing authorities also have power to provide recreation and playing fields and open spaces in connection with housing schemes. Those Acts go back a very long time. They have been further reinforced by the Local Government (Sanitary Services) Act, 1948, which enables local authorities not only to provide these recreation facilities but, in certain instances, let them to suitable committees—football committees and committees of that kind. I thoroughly agree that provision ought to be made but I do not think that we ought to create a monopoly of trying, as Deputy Moylan says, to create champions. The provision of the these recreation facilities for the children by the local authorities ought to stop there, as far as the dictatorial part is concerned, at least. They have an opportunity now to vest these grounds in suitable committees, hurling committees, soccer committees, rugby committees, and things of that kind. In that way there will be some initiative left to the citizens to develop, the grounds having been provided by the local authority.

Deputy O'Higgins complained that some of the grounds provided at Crumlin and Drimnagh are left in a rather deplorable condition, in so far as they are not developed. That perhaps is perfectly true. The main point is that the grounds have been set down into the housing schemes and, as far as housing schemes are concerned, the Department of which I happen to be at the moment in control gives every encouragement to the people who are building the houses and the town planners themselves are very keen about the provision of recreation space. In fact, as Deputy O'Higgins mentioned, it sometimes comes to a contest as to whether or not we are providing too much in the way of recreation space and too little for housing. We cannot afford to ignore the fact that the main drive at the moment is housing but I think there still will be sufficient land left to provide the houses we require and also suitable facilities for playgrounds and recreation fields for those who are to be the occupants of the houses.

Having regard to the period that we have come through, a war emergency period when things were more or less stagnant, we have no reason to be pessimistic about the efforts made by the local authorities to provide the facilities asked for in the motion, with which we all heartily agree. In the last nine years—and this is dealing with a period of rather difficult times—there has been £127,336 utilised by various public authorities for the provision of such amenities. That is not confined to any one particular place. It includes Cork, Dublin, Limerick, Waterford, Navan, Galway, Wicklow, Kerry, Loughrea, Cobh, Enniscorthy, Templemore. So, there is widespread recognition by local authorities of their responsibility in this very important matter.

There is one rather personal instance that I would like to mention. Deputy O'Higgins complained of the lack of facilities for children in slum areas to become proficient in athletics or aquatics. It is praiseworthy that the Irish Army champion in swimming this year, when being complimented by the Minister for Defence on his prowess in having won the championship, replied to the question as to where he came from that he came from Crumlin and learned to swim in the canal. The Irish Army swimming champion this year has overcome all the difficulties and disabilities. I am not putting that forward as a ground for the continuance of these disabilities but as an example of how our Irish boys, given reasonable facilities and opportunities, force themselves ahead and become natural champions without their being shepherded or hall-marked or brought into regular camps.

I maintain, as I said at the outset, that the best thing is for the local authorities to continue along the lines of providing suitable children's playgrounds and recreation facilities. I am not so keen about taking over the grounds and controlling the clubs. Let the clubs be run by committees.

If there is anything not to my satisfaction, it is the question of athletic sports. I think Deputy Moylan referred to that also. That is one point where we ought to make every effort to give every encouragement. We held a prominent position in the world at one time and I am not so pessimistic to believe that we have lost all that stamina. Our young athletes would prove themselves if they got an opportunity to develop. Enough has not been done in that direction. Clubs that play games and attract gates can do various things that the individual is unable to do. I would say a word of encouragement to local authorities to provide suitable pitches where sprinters could train. These individuals are depending on personal initiative and I would like to see them encouraged. We have reason to regret the departure of the halcyon days when we had our champions winning laurels all over the world in various athletic fields. While I do not want to take on the responsibility of bringing the athletes to the pink of perfection, if they are provided with the facilities by the local authorities they will do the rest of the job themselves.

Deputy Brennan is to be commended for having put down this motion. I have very little to add to it because I am in whole-hearted agreement with the principle inspiring it. It is only a matter of degree. A tempo has been set by the local authorities and there will be continuing attention to the provision of suitable recreation facilities. It is being insisted upon, wherever housing schemes are being erected, that as a sine qua non playing fields and playing grounds must be provided in connection with the schemes. There is no difficulty in doing that because, as I have said, the people planning the schemes seem to be equally enthusiastic as the Department in this matter. Only yesterday I had the pleasure of opening a housing scheme in Dún Laoghaire, built by the efforts of working men who came together and erected these homes for themselves. Right across the road, there is a ten-acre field which has been ploughed by the local authority and which will be sodded in the coming season and made available for games. That is only one of four schemes which provide that facility. While we may complain that we have not been going fast enough, it is only reasonable and fair to appreciate the efforts which have been made by various local authorities and, in conclusion, I can say that, so far as I and the Department are concerned, Deputies are pushing an open door. I believe definitely in the development of athletics and in the provision of suitable playgrounds for children and local authorities will get my whole-hearted co-operation in bringing any such schemes to fruition.

Mr. Fitzpatrick

Deputy Brennan and I brought this motion before the House because we wish to see athletics encouraged and to see our young men and women getting an opportunity to take part in healthy outdoor games. It is very encouraging to us to hear speakers on both sides of the House, and, over and above these, the Minister, in wholehearted agreement with the suggestions we put before the House; but I am inclined to think that the speeches made tended to concentrate more on games than on athletics. Deputy Moylan pointed out that games such as hurling and football are fairly well organised. The clubs are organised and have their own pitches, and, by reason of public support, are able to raise their own finances, but athletics, such as cycling, running, jumping, weight-throwing and general field events, in which we are particularly interested, have not got that public support which enables them to look after themselves financially, and to train and develop Irish athletes so that they will be able to compete successfully at international sports, as Irish athletes of the past were able to compete successfully. In the past, Irish athletes raised the Irish flag throughout the world and generally put this country on the map, but our young men and women who have taken part in international athletic events in recent years have been handicapped by the fact, that unlike the Governments of other countries, the Government here have not put financial and other facilities at their disposal to enable them to give proper training and instruction to their athletes.

We are more than anxious that these facilities should be placed at the disposal of Irish athletes. In addition to the very commendable work being done by local authorities, the Government, we feel, should sponsor the encouragement of athletics in Ireland. We have all read with pride of the success of the Army jumping team. The members of that jumping team have not to buy their own horses or provide their own equipment; they are encouraged and, I presume, advertised by the Government. We feel that athletics, whether running or cycling, should have somewhat similar facilities. It is deplorable that, with all the facilities which local authorities are providing, such as these parks about which the Minister has told us, if a cycling club, in Dublin want to put on a cycling competition, they have to go out on the public road. On Sunday mornings, you will find our cyclists on the side of the road at Cabra arranging for the start of a cycling tournament, and you will also find our runners practising on the public road. They are seemingly not breaking the law, as is the case when boys play hurling and kick football on the streets.

I feel that some more definite lead and encouragement will have to be given and I suggest that the Minister might consider the advisability of setting up a board or committee, composed of men with long experience of athletics in Ireland, to make recommendations as to the lines along which athletics might best be encouraged. This board could even make recommendations to local authorities and point out that these fields or parks which are provided in the different areas should be under some proper control. I know that there is a great lack in this respect in West Cabra and especially in that area where, I am glad to hear from the Minister, a park is about to be provided. There are thousands of young people living there and the only place they have for playing is the street. There is a field there which was used for this purpose during the past few years, but this field has now been taken over for building, and they have to go back to the streets, where they are a danger to themselves and to passing traffic. It is encouraging to hear that some move is being made to take them off the streets.

During the past few years local committees took control of them and organised what Deputy M. O'Higgins has referred to as "street leagues". In some cases, they had to travel from the north side over to Drimnagh and Crumlin, and I am sorry that the Minister did not give us some explanation of why the ground was locked against the people who went there to play. It was a public ground that Deputy O'Higgins complained about and we should have some explanation. In my younger days and even recently, I was connected with an athletic club and I visited a number of these places. I thought it deplorable that they should have to put up with the old shacks provided as dressing rooms. They were no credit to the city of Dublin. It should be within the jurisdiction of the corporation, or whatever body is responsible, to appoint stewards to see that these dressing rooms, when built, would be properly controlled and that if these dressing rooms are provided in these parks, they will be properly equipped.

It would not cost very much to provide facilities for a wash-up and shower. If boys are to go out there to take part in a hurling or a football game, it is injurious to their health that they should have to dress after these games without having the opportunity of a wash-up or shower. In the case of the community with which I have been associated for over a quarter of a century, the shop assistants of Dublin, I know from experience that after a match we often had to get out of our togs and into our ordinary clothes and go back to work for a couple of hours without having a shower or wash-up, which, to say the least of it, was not in any way helpful in so far as our health was concerned. I am not satisfied that everything that could or should be done is being done by the local authorities. I believe that some more central direction is necessary.

With regard to what the Minister has said about boys learning to swim in the canals, I shudder to think that our youth should be encouraged to swim in our canals in the hope that, by doing so, they may some day become champions. The whole matter will have to be considered on a higher plane. In this connection, I might refer to the number of drowning tragedies that take place in our canals during the summer season. These are matters which should be considered not alone by the local authorities but by the Government, because these places are not alone dangerous but absolute death-traps. If we are to be successful in the athletic field and if we are to regain at any time in the near future the position our athletes held 50 years ago, we shall have to give greater encouragement to our youth who take part in field and track events. We produced here some great cyclists who, however, were never able to compete successfully at international meetings, not because they were not as good as the other competitors, but because they had not had the facilities for training. By reason of lack of properly laid out tracks, they were on completely foreign grounds when they completed at these meetings, but, in justice to those boys who have travelled to the Continent and to England, we must admit that in the circumstances they did remarkably well and were a credit to themselves and to the country. A lot more, however, could be done if there was some general direction and help. When other countries can give financial assistance in connection with these track events, it is not fair that we should lag behind or leave it all to the local authorities, without any central direction.

The Minister also said that, as well as outdoor games, indoor games should get a certain amount of attention. Amateur boxing clubs have done remarkably well in this city for a number of years past. There again these clubs have to rely on subscriptions they get from their own members who, for the most part, have to make a big sacrifice to provide funds out of their slender financial resources. There is also a very promising amateur wrestling club in the city. I understand that the European amateur wrestling champion is a native of Dublin but very few people knew that there was such an organisation in the country at all.

The help which one Department, under Government control, gave to these amateur wrestlers was, for some unknown reason, to compel them to pay entertainment tax on a function which they held here. I feel that in justice to the Minister responsible and possibly to the Department concerned, I should say that that was an oversight but it shows the interest we have been taking in athletics when one prominent amateur association was overlooked and through some slip of the pen had to pay entertainment tax on this function. I think that is a shame and it certainly should be set right in the future. I do not wish to delay the House too long on this subject. There is no need to repeat oneself, but I do respectfully suggest to the Minister that he might accept the suggestion to consider the appointment of a committee consisting of people who understand athletics to make recommendations to him as to the lines on which athletics should be developed and controlled in this country.

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 2 Nov 1949