Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Feb 1952

Vol. 129 No. 3

Private Deputies' Business. - Gaeltacht Tomato Scheme—Motion.

Mr. MacBride

I move:—

That in order to achieve a balanced economy for small-holders resident in Gaeltacht areas and with a view to implementing the Government's stated policy for taking all steps necessary for the revival of the Irish language, Dáil Éireann is of opinion that the Minister for Agriculture should fix a guaranteed economic price to be given in respect of the total output of tomatoes from Connemara and other Gaeltacht areas for this coming year.

The House will recall that a scheme was initiated in 1947 whereby grants and other facilities were made available in certain Gaeltacht areas, particularly in Connemara and Donegal, for promoting the development of the growing of tomatoes under glass. The scheme is a good one, in that it is an attempt to make available to people in the congested areas, where the holdings are uneconomic and where no other form of employment is available, facilities to enable them to produce a fruit or vegetable for which there is ready sale.

To a certain extent, the value of the scheme is impaired by reason of the low prices which tomato growers in those areas succeed in obtaining. I noted from time to time that a restriction on the import of foreign-grown tomatoes had been imposed in order to afford a greater degree of protection to our own growers. By reason, however, of the location of the tomato schemes in the Gaeltacht areas, in Connemara and in Donegal, it is difficult for the growers there to obtain economic prices in the Dublin markets. If my recollection is correct, last year and the year before the marketing of the tomatoes from Connemara was undertaken by a Dublin fruit merchant. I think it was an arrangement made by the Department. I am not criticising the Department for having made that arrangement—it was probably the only convenient arrangement that could be made—but it does illustrate the difficulties that confront the tomato growers in the Gaeltacht areas. In the Gaeltacht area of Donegal I think that the marketing was organised through some local merchant.

The proposal which I bring before the House in this motion is that the Government should guarantee an economic price to the tomato growers in these areas.

It would entail probably subsidising, to a certain degree, the growers in the Gaeltacht area. I know that the question of subsidising the production of food or other commodity in one area of the country as against another area is open to criticism but I think we have to be ready to meet that criticism if we are in earnest in our desire to maintain the Gaeltacht, if we are in earnest in making available facilities in those areas that will enable people to obtain a living and also if we are in earnest in our claim that we want to preserve and maintain the Irish Land Commission.

In Connemara I think that the scheme started in 1948 by having 63 houses. This was extended in 1949 and 1950 and the numbe of houses was increased to 95 houses. In Donegal the scheme started by having 80 houses in 1948 and this number was subsequently increased to 100 houses; therefore, the total number of tomato houses in those two areas is now something which is under 200—195, I think. There may have been some increase in 1951; I have not got the figures for 1951 but in or around 200, I think, may be taken as the total number of houses affected. The production per house is in the neighbourhood of 18 to 23 cwt. I mention this to indicate that the total amount of subsidy involved in the number of existing houses would be small.

The House will have some appreciation of the difficulties that concern the tomato growers in these areas by reference to the prices which were made available to them. Prices, I understand, in 1950 ranged between 4d. and, I think, 10d. a lb. I believe the average price in Connemara in 1950 was 7¼d. per lb. while the average price in Donegal in 1949 was 6d. per lb. and 7d. per lb. last year. These are the average prices and I understand that there is a much greater fluctuation in the prices actually during the season. It would, therefore, not be very costly to provide a subsidy, if needs be, in order to guarantee a minimum economic price to the tomato growers in these areas. The subsidy, if it amounts to a subsidy, could be raised by imposing a tax on foreign grown tomatoes to make up the necessary amount to defray the cost of the subsidy.

Captain Cowan

Could the Deputy say what an economic price per lb. would be?

Mr. MacBride

The figures are given fully by the Department of Agriculture. They make different estimates. In the final analysis it depends on what you consider to be the necessary amount of profit which the grower is entitled to expect.

Captain Cowan

Has the Deputy any idea?

Mr. MacBride

I will give particulars to the Deputy if he wishes. The average obtained per house in Donegal in 1949 was £47 6s. 3d. What is described as the prime upgrading costs amounted to £14 15s. 1d., leaving a net difference of £26 2s. 2d, by way of profit for the grower. Profit is hardly a correct term to use in that connection, because, in effect, that amount represents, not profit in the ordinary sense, but the earnings, the pay for the labour expended by the grower.

It will be readily appreciated that if this scheme is to be of real benefit to a family, either in Connemara or in Donegal, an annual return of some £26 is inadequate. I am not attempting to decry the scheme or saying that, even with the small returns that the scheme makes available to the tomato growers in these areas, it is not a good thing, but I do know that the cost of guaranteeing a basic minimum price in those areas, limited to the Gaeltacht areas, would be negligible as compared with the value of such an arrangement and that the cost of this could easily be obtained by a very small levy on tomato imports at different ports of entry.

I would ask the Minister to consider this proposal very seriously and to approach it on a non-Party basis. The Minister has this advantage. He can say: "This is a scheme which we introduced ourselves in 1947. It is an improvement on one of our own schemes, and we are glad to accept any suggestions to improve one of our own schemes."

Mr. Walsh

This is our own scheme.

Mr. MacBride

Yes.

Mr. Walsh

I thought you made a suggestion you had a scheme.

Mr. MacBride

No. I am not saying that.

Mr. Walsh

You killed our scheme.

Mr. MacBride

We did not.

Mr. Walsh

You tried to.

Mr. MacBride

As a matter of fact, it is far from that. If the Minister will look at the returns of his own Department he will see that the number of houses was increased in 1949 and 1950. However, I do not like the interjection of the Minister because it seems to be another indication that he has no intention of approaching the matter objectively.

Mr. Walsh

That is not so.

Mr. MacBride

I was merely suggesting to the Minister that it was easy for him to come to the House or go to the country and say: "This is one of our schemes that has been approved by the Opposition of the Dáil; they have made suggestions for improvement; we accept those suggestions in order to improve the scheme and make it of greater benefit to the people of the Gaeltacht areas."

Mr. Walsh

And say that the Opposition has changed its mind since 1948.

Mr. MacBride

Not so far as I am concerned. I do not think the Minister could say that.

Mr. Walsh

It is no longer an exotic crop.

Mr. MacBride

The Minister, being a new Minister, should set a headline in approaching these schemes on their merits instead of trying to raise Party issues.

I do not think there is very much more I can add to what I have already said. I feel that the implementation of what I propose would not be very costly and would be of considerable benefit to the people of the Gaeltacht. It has the further advantage that it could be defrayed by a levy on imported tomatoes without materially affecting the cost to city dwellers.

Mr. Tully

I second the motion.

Mr. Corry

It is rather amusing to see Deputy MacBride resurrecting in February, 1952, something he wrecked in February, 1948. The only other repentant sinner who is missing from the picture is the ex-Minister for Agriculture, Deputy James Dillon.

Mr. MacBride

I do not really wish to interrupt the Deputy, but it might save a good deal of cross-heckling afterwards. This motion was tabled by the Clann na Poblachta Party in this House when another Government was in office, so that it does not represent a new view on the part of Clann na Poblachta.

Mr. Corry

It is amusing to think that a Minister who occupied an honoured place on these benches so far forgot the Clann na Poblachta doctrine as to support the entry into this House as Minister of Deputy James Dillon, who assumed office on the 18th February, 1948. No doubt, after a Cabinet meeting with Deputy MacBride he made the following statement with regard to an estimate introduced by his predecessor in office, the present Minister for Local Government. Speaking in the Dáil on the 25th February, 1948, Volume 110, columns 91 and 92, the ex-Minister for Agriculture, said:—

"Subhead 1 (4) deals with a rather exotic proposal. With some reluctance I ask the House to grant this money for the astonishing purpose of erecting glasshouses in Connemara. However, with faith—I might almost say with blind faith—I propose to allow the glasshouses that have been erected to be glazed, but I am not concerned to press this scheme any further than it has already gone. I should add this, steps have been taken in connection with this scheme in Donegal and in parts of Connemara. I do not propose to recommend to the Dáil that the scheme should be further expanded..."

That is the statement made by a Minister who had been in office only a very short time, having, in fact, been elected seven days previously by Deputy MacBride among others, and put in charge of the fate of the Connemara people, and such was his verdict on the tomato scheme.

Mr. MacBride

Is the Deputy supporting the motion?

Mr. Corry

I am speaking on Deputy MacBride's motion.

Mr. MacBride

Are you supporting it?

Mr. Corry

The Deputy is not in the Law Courts now. Should he and I happen to be in the Law Courts together, we will have a set-to about that.

Mr. MacBride

It would be interesting to know whether or not the Deputy is supporting the motion.

Mr. Corry

The Deputy is looking for the resurrection of a scheme which was introduced into this House by the Fianna Fáil Government and which was wrecked by the ex-Minister for Agriculture during a period of three years in this House—wrecked with the support, the blind support if you like, of Deputy MacBride. I consider it an impertinence on the Deputy's part, having helped to ruin that scheme, to come forward now as a repentant sinner in sackcloth and ashes begging the Fianna Fáil Party to resurrect the industry. It is a rather amusing picture if there was not tragedy behind it. I wonder will Deputy Dillon come into the House now and tell us about the poor people down in Meath Street——

Mr. Cogan

And in Dominick Street.

Mr. Corry

——and in Dominick Street? He wanted cheap tomatoes to be imported from Holland for these people and he had not a care about the people of Connemara. They were no concern of his or of Deputy MacBride's while he occupied one of these benches. He did not worry because Deputy Dillon, when Minister for Agriculture, had decided, out of the goodness of his heart, that he would not object to give money for the glazing of the glasshouses already erected. I wonder when are we going to see an end put to humbug in this House. Is it possible that Deputy MacBride having, as he has now told us, this scheme as one of the principal planks in the Clann na Pobhlachta platform, could come in here and definitely wreck this industry by supporting Deputy Dillon's nomination as Minister for Agriculture?

For a number of years before Deputy MacBride ever came into this House I brought forward proposals and suggestions for the improvement of the western seaboard. I did not, I admit, confine myself to tomatoes. I dealt as well with all the varieties of small seeds that could be produced in Connemara and with the intensive work of that description that could be done down there so as to provide employment for those people who were forced to emigrate. It was very little use making any appeal along those lines during the three years when Deputy MacBride had an opportunity, as a member of the Cabinet, of making sure that the tomato industry which had been started, put under way and fostered by the Fianna Fáil Government, would be carried on and expanded in the way in which it was intended it should be expanded.

Mr. MacBride

So it was, from 63 to 95 houses in Connemara and from 80 to 100 in Donegal.

Mr. Walsh

And the money reduced from £84 to £50.

Mr. Corry

I have given here the statement made by the then Minister for Agriculture—the first speech he made in this House. I have not the speech with me but I hope some other Deputy will have it. Those who started this industry and got it under way were crushed out of existence in a scandalous manner by the malicious manoeuvring of the late Minister for Agriculture in importing foreign tomatoes. It was definitely malicious manoeuvring. This House has passed a Bill which will enable us to go ahead faster in seeing that suitable industries are promoted in the Gaeltacht areas so that we shall be able to preserve in those areas our Irish population. Three or four months after being removed and after going back to the Clann na Poblachta Party with his little theme and after telling them all about the tomato scheme he wrecked, Deputy MacBride came back here with a Party of two. A bicycle made for two would do him now. After doing that, Deputy MacBride gets up in this House to repent of his sins.

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

Tell us what happened Fianna Fáil in Connemara?

Mr. Corry

I advise that baby over there to bring a little suckling bottle with him. If he brings that he will be quite all right.

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

You are jealous of the youth all right.

Mr. Corry

The Deputy has a great deal to learn yet, and if he takes his time I promise him that I will teach him a little, anyway. The more I teach him the better off he will be. If the Deputy learns properly from me he will have some hope of getting back in future elections. I have seen many a fellow come and many a fellow go.

Mr. Cawley

That will go on for ever.

Mr. Corry

That is another newcomer up there. He had better keep quiet. I certainly wish to see the tomato industry in the West not only brought back from the wreckage, but expanded and put in such a position that no tomatoes will be required from the Dutch or from any other foreigners. We ought to be self-supporting as far as tomatoes are concerned, and there is only one way of achieving that. The way to expand the tomato growing industry is not to open the floodgates and throw in on top of the unfortunate tomato grower, when he had his tomatoes ready to sell, the tons of tomatoes from Denmark and Holland. That is not the way to do it, but Deputy MacBride sat in this House when that was being done and supported the Minister who was doing it.

That is my grievance with Deputy MacBride. I admit that, when I read his Clann na Poblachta programme first, I was nearly carried away with it and I gave a kind of sympathetic look at him when his Party came in first. "Hang it," said I, "as a crowd they might do some good." But what good could you expect from a Deputy who comes in here, buries his whole policy, sacrifices everything and every principle upon which his Party went before the people, and throws the agricultural community in general and the people in Connemara, in particular, into the rapacious maw of Deputy James Dillon when he was Minister for Agriculture? Hang it, before I would put myself in Deputy MacBride's boots and table a motion like that under discussion I would go out and do something else.

Mr. MacBride

You had to take the oath of allegiance.

Mr. Corry

If the Deputy wants the oath of allegiance gone into I will go into it with him.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That has nothing to do with the motion under discussion.

Mr. Corry

I admit that, Sir, but I did not want to be led astray by Deputy MacBride. In the middle of 1948 Deputy MacBride woke up to the fact that a Republic had been established in 1937 according to his own Taoiseach then.

Mr. D.J. O'Sullivan

The unrecognised one.

Mr. MacBride

What about the King?

Mr. Corry

It would be as well for any Deputy who sleeps as long as that to go away and get some more sleep. If the Deputy even grew a few tomatoes himself he might be of some benefit to the country. I come from a constituency where we have some 150 men in permanent employment on tomato growing. That might surprise Deputy MacBride. If he indulges in tomatoes at all, he probably has a couple of our East Cork tomatoes every morning for his breakfast.

Mr. MacBride

Then the Deputy should support this motion.

Mr. Corry

There are two ways of doing a thing—the right way and the wrong way. The way Deputy MacBride always finds of doing a thing reminds me of an individual who desires to leave this Chamber and in order to do so goes right around the lobbies.

Mr. MacBride

It is a very direct way.

Mr. Corry

And even then this individual might forget that way and try to climb over the railings.

Mr. MacBride

The motion is quite simple.

Mr. Corry

Not a sight. As I say, there are two ways of doing this. I am absolutely certain that the tomato growers in my constituency and in the West of Ireland are absolutely dead safe in the hands of our present Minister for Agriculture. I am absolutely certain that they will not worry Deputy MacBride. I would advise the Deputy to find a topic that he has not already wrecked by his work. If he does that and puts it on the Order Paper perhaps we will all give him a hand.

Mr. O. Flanagan

He did not wreck the price of barley.

Mr. Corry

If the Deputy cares for shouting in this House ——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Flanagan should allow Deputy Corry to make his speech.

Mr. O. Flanagan

The Deputy should talk sense.

Mr. Corry

The Deputy talked sense last week and it ought to do him for a long time, and if the Deputy does not conduct himself he might get more.

Mr. O. Flanagan

Am I to understand that that is a threat from Deputy Corry? If I am to understand that it is a threat, I take a very serious view of it in view of the fact that this House is investigating the matter.

Mr. Corry

You took a serious view last week.

Mr. O. Flanagan

If you have a graveyard in Cork you have no graveyard here.

Mr. Corry

You have got to be very serious about it because people here have not any patience with you.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Unless Deputy Flanagan behaves himself I will have to ask him to leave the House.

Mr. Corry

As I was stating when I was so rudely interrupted——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Perhaps if the Deputy addressed the Chair the interruptions would not be so numerous.

Mr. Corry

As I was saying, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, when I was so rudely interrupted, we have those proposals in conjunction with every other proposal. All I can guarantee is that faithfully we intend taking up where we broke off when the Deputy by his combination succeeded in putting those things back. Our policy, as far as tomato growing is concerned, will be pushed ahead and carried out without the foolish interference of the Deputy. One difference is that we have our own way of doing things and we will do them in that way. I would suggest, therefore, to the Deputy not to waste the time of the House in endeavouring to bring forward here ideas, good ideas perhaps at one time, but ideas which he wilfully wrecked for a place in the sun for a couple of years.

Mr. O'Donnell

I rise to support this motion and I do so from no political angle. I had the privilege of accompanying my fellow Deputies from West Donegal on a deputation to the Minister's predecessor for a guaranteed price for tomatoes. We did not get a fixed price but we eventually did get some measure of help by way of a ban on imported tomatoes at certain periods of the year.

Unfortunately, too much lip service is paid to the Gaeltacht. Since I came into this House I am convinced that nothing is being seriously done to assist the Gaeltacht. Here we have an industry established in the Gaeltacht by Deputy Smith when he was Minister, the industry of home grown tomatoes in Connemara and West Donegal. Remember that West Donegal is the biggest Gaeltacht in this country and nothing has been done for it so far by any Government other than what was done for it by Deputy Smith by setting up a local industry.

Now we find that a motion is brought in by Deputy MacBride to guarantee to these people a fixed price for tomatoes; in other words, that they should be told in advance what they were going to make during the coming season. That would be an enticement to them to remain at home instead of emigrating.

You would be surprised to know the repercussions of this meagre sum of £25 which these tomato growers receive. Is the House aware that in order to earn that £25 they are working from the month of April approximately to the following October— admittedly part-time work? At the end of that time they receive the meagre sum of £25. That £25 is taken into account and assessed against their means if they apply for unemployment assistance. If one of the tomato growers is an old person entitled to the old age pension that £25 is again taken into account and assessed against the means of that unfortunate person. I know that the people are anxious to make a success of tomato growing but they cannot do it on £25 a year.

Falcarragh and Cloghaneely, all that particular Gaeltacht in West Donegal where the scheme was inaugurated, is practically denuded by emigration. I put down a question within the last week to find out whether it was proposed to extend electricity to that particular Gaeltacht. The reply I received was that it would be considered and if it were an economic proposition electricity would be laid on. I suggest that there is no use in spending money on the undeveloped areas of West Donegal until we first instal electricity. If we had electricity it is quite possible that the tomatoes could be tinned in the season, that surplus fish could be canned and that potatoes could be canned as cooked potatoes, but until we get electricity into the area none of these things can be done. I respectfully suggest that the only alternative pending the introduction of electricity into the Gaeltachts of West Donegal and Connemara is to guarantee a minimum price for tomatoes.

I would like to tell the Minister that I am aware that his supporters are anxious to see a minimum price fixed, but I do hope that no Party whips will be put on if the motion goes to a vote. I would not like to see it going to a vote; I would rather see the Minister accepting the motion, because by doing so I think he would be doing something good for the Gaeltacht.

I am anxious to see the scheme extended. I am anxious to see the day when each of the tomato houses will be heated by electricity and water laid on. I want to see as much advantage taken of the scheme in Donegal and the West of Ireland generally as one could possibly imagine. Do not forget that you are dealing with the areas from which the greatest number of migrants leave the country. If we are anxious to hold our native Irish speakers at home and stem emigration it is only by subsidising and encouraging native industries that we can do so. If the Minister could give, by way of subsidy, a guaranteed price to the tomato growers in West Donegal and Connemara it would not mean dearer tomatoes for the people of Dominick Street or anywhere else. I do understand that there are very big concerns which deal in the growing of tomatoes. We are merely asking them to foster and encourage tomato growing in the Gaeltacht. I am certain that even if we had an extra subsidy it would not increase the cost of living of the unfortunates of Dominick Street or the other streets of Dublin.

Debate adjourned.