Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 Mar 1952

Vol. 129 No. 9

Committee on Finance. - Tourist Traffic Bill, 1951—Second Stage (Resumed).

Dr. Esmonde

When the debate was adjourned, I was stressing the importance of our national transport organisation having control over the ships of the Rosslare-Fishguard service. Before the first world war two passenger boats travelled daily between Fishguard and Rosslare. This state of affairs obtained right up to the 1914-18 war. After the 1914-18 war and up to the outbreak of the last war, one passenger boat sailed daily between these ports. Since the war, we have had only one sailing three days a week except in the busy season. Let us examine the number of passengers carried in these boats in the busiest year prior to the outbreak of the recent war—the year 1938. In that year, 104,332 passengers travelled on that route and 35,000 tons of goods and 2,968 motor cars were transported. The figures for 1951 are 142,930 passengers, nearly 35,000 tons of cargo and 5,775 motor cars, which is 70 per cent. of the total number of motor cars that came into the country. It is obvious from these figures that if this service is increased to two sailings in the busy tourist season and a daily sailing for the rest of the year we could deal with vast quantities of tourists and lessen the congestion that exists at present on the other routes.

According to the tourists, the position at Rosslare Harbour is that, when they arrive there, there are no fast train services to transport them to the different parts of the country which they may wish to go to. Surely it is in the interests of Córas Iompair Éireann—who, as we all know, are in a parlous condition, financially, and have to get a subsidy from this House every year to enable them to carry on—to supply adequate passenger services from Rosslare to other parts of the country. Surely it is in the interests of Córas Iompair Éireann, who own 50 per cent. of the Rosslare-Fishguard service, to increase this service and to give us a daily service as well as a nightly service. I might stress that though some people may complain that the bringing in of motor cars to this country means an extra draw on our petrol resources, there are other advantages to be gained by their importation. It is well known that many of the cars that came into Ireland in the tourist season last year were repaired here. That work gave a lot of extra employment in the motor trade in this country. I urge the Minister to bear in mind the question of the improvement of Rosslare Harbour. If there are two boats coming in, as happens in the summer period, the tourists have to wait a long time for customs examination. There is a second berth there, and if the second ship were permitted to go to that berth the customs examination could be carried out more expeditiously, thus easing the congestion at the port. I have been informed by the Rosslare Development Association, which is a very active and virile body, that it is essential to have a loudspeaker at this port in order to direct the people to the different trains. That is one of the things that impress tourists. Wherever else they may go in the world they have a loudspeaker to direct them—and why should they not have a loudspeaker to direct them at Rosslare also? I stated that 70 per cent. of the cars coming into this country came through Rosslare. It is suggested that a road right down to the boat itself would greatly facilitate and hasten the unloading of cars.

I come now to deal with the composition of Fógra Fáilte. I may say that I do not believe in having three boards. Section 2 of the Schedule to the Bill refers to the appointment and conditions of service to Fógra Fáilte. The section reads as follows:—

"(1) The board shall consist of six members of whom one shall be chairman.

(2) (a) The chairman and the other members shall be appointed by the Minister.

(b) The chairman and two other members shall be chosen from the members of An Bord Fáilte."

I read in the Minister's introductory speech to this stage of the Bill that it was decided that the other three members of the board would be chosen from the directors of the Irish Tourist Association—that the Irish Tourist Association would be allowed to nominate six members and that from these six members the Minister would choose three members. I think it would be reasonable to allow the Irish Tourist Association, who have done good work for this country in the matter of tourism, to nominate these three members themselves. After all, they are a representative body and I think that the procedure I suggest would be a very democratic procedure.

There are many things in this Bill that commend themselves to me. I see a section in connection with An Bord Fáilte whereby national shrines and monuments are to receive attention. I fear a lot of us do not realise the great benefit which our national shrines and monuments could be to the tourist industry—and I have in mind, in particular, the dollar tourist. Any of us in this House who have travelled abroad have often seen the American tourist going around with his map and camera and generally escorted by a guide. That tourist has only one object in mind—to "do" the city or town or district as the case may be. I do not think any American is ever satisfied unless he has seen a shrine. These shrines are of sentimental value. They are old and they are associated with our Christian history and our past culture. It is a good thing to have a scheme whereby signposts are erected to direct the general public to these shrines. I notice also that roads and highways leading to these shrines and monuments are to be repaired, and that, too, is a good thing.

Several Deputies have spoken about our ability to provide entertainment for tourists, more particularly in our rural districts. Hunting, shooting and fishing have been referred to and, of the three, I think that fishing is the most important. It is very necessary that our lakes and rivers should be restocked with trout and that bailiffs should be introduced throughout the country to keep down the pike which are consuming and destroying fish such as trout and salmon.

The best type of tourist coming to this country, as he always comes back, is the fisherman, and the fishing industry is the best industry of the three. If you have people staying at an hotel they can fish the same lake or river every day of the week. If you have an hotel in a shooting centre, even though there is a very extensive moor there, anybody who knows anything about shooting knows that if you cover a snipe or grouse bog on a Monday you cannot go out and do it again on Tuesday, but you can fish a river or a lake every day of the week. Fishermen also are happy-minded people. Unlike other people, they do not mind looking out through the window of an hotel at the rain pouring down. They are quite happy if they have someone to listen to their latest fishing story and they realise that they will probably be able to get back to the job again the next day. It is my experience that the fishermen who come to this country always come back.

Hunting is a very necessary adjunct to our economic life here. Unfortunately, hunting is not in a very good condition at the present time. The demand that existed for our Irish hunters is dying out, because hunting in England has almost ceased, and the market for the export of our hunters is going down. The Tourist Board can do a lot to improve that state of affairs. There is great scope for hunting amongst the American public. Hunting is confined to the winter months. If we are going to build a lot of new hotels—I think it is a mistake to do so and that we should carry on with what we have—we would want to fill these hotels in the winter months, and in many parts of Ireland you can do that by promoting hunting. You will not only do that, but you will bring back into commission the Irish hunter which is now dying out. Every owner of a thoroughbred sire throughout the country will tell you that thoroughbred hunting mares are not being sent to his sire. That is proof that we will not be able to export the hunters which were our pride in the past.

I should also like to touch upon the question of holiday camps and to preface my remarks by saying that I am not a teetotaller. Good Friday is the day of all days. It is recognised as such all over the world. In Ireland, with our old tradition, it is recognised as such more than anywhere else. I have the feeling, which a great many people with whom I discussed it share, that there should be nothing in this Bill that in any way enables anybody to have an opportunity of consuming alcoholic liquor on Good Friday. In this Bill there is a section dealing with holiday camps. It is true that these camps have to have accommodation for 250 people and a valuation, I think, of £200 before they can get an intoxicating liquor licence. It is also true that they have only been established in the vicinity of Dublin and Cork. Our culture, our tradition and our way of life are different from those of the people of other countries.

We will get these people to come here whether we make different or easier licensing laws for them or not. I do not think it is right that we should pass a Bill legalising the sale of intoxicating liquor in these holiday camps on Good Friday. Anyone you meet abroad who hears that you are from Ireland will always recognise you as coming from a country that is loyal to the religion which the majority of its people espouse. I am only expressing my own personal view, but I do not think it right that we should have this section in the Bill. I ask the Minister to give this matter his serious consideration, because 364 days in the year ought to be sufficient for the consumption of alcoholic liquor, and on Good Friday we should abstain from alcoholic liquor in Christian Ireland.

Mrs. Crowley

If we realise that tourists can be the most effective ambassadors that we have we will welcome this Bill, because in many ways it seeks to bridge the gap between what we lack and what we hope for in the future. There is one very good provision in it which I think is new, and that is, to provide training for the staffs of hotels. There are many country houses that could be adapted for this purpose, and if girls receive this training it will enable them to take up their duties in hotels with efficiency. Hoteliers will also be in a position to know that they can get an efficient staff as a result of this scheme. The girls would also be saved a great deal of embarrassment by being able to tackle properly the tourist and hotel business.

A number of Deputies spoke about sport and some of them stressed the importance of fishing and shooting to this country. I should like to say a word on behalf of the younger tourists who come here. We have to realise that fishing and shooting, in England at any rate, are only for the well-to-do people. The younger people like to play tennis and I do not think we have sufficient hard tennis courts in this country to cater for these people. The provision of roads and means of access to historic ruins is also a very good idea.

There are a number of these places to which you cannot possibly go at the moment. There is, for example, Inisfallen Island. The pier there is now gone to pieces because it is nobody's business to repair it. I think that, if it were put into a proper state of repair, tourists would be able to go there and see one of our national monuments. Then, as regards the signposting of roads and the signposting of historic ruins and explaining the different parts of ruins to tourists, something might be done. For example, public notices might be put up in old abbeys to indicate where the chapter house was and where the dormitories were so as to enable tourists to study the ruins with interest and not be obliged to go around holding a guide book in their hands.

The tourist bureaux outside the country should be well developed and adequately staffed, because if a tourist goes into one of them and finds that he does not get attention he will go out again and be disappointed and, perhaps, will not come to the country at all. If, on the other hand, he goes in and can be told the time that his train will depart and is given some information about the county he is interested in visiting—if he gets quick service—he will come here and will probably come again. I think also that great use should be made of the radio and of the schools so as to let our people know the reason why we are pressing this tourist industry to the maximum. There are various ways in which the people of the country can help. They can help by providing the sort of amenities that the tourist likes. I have heard complaints on a number of occasions that tourists, when driving for miles along our roads, can hardly see the scenery because the hedges are not cut. That is a matter that could be attended to through the Press or the radio. Perhaps it could be talked about in the schools, and in that way the children would soon become tourist-minded. Small things, such as the cutting of the tops of hedges, could give a great deal of pleasure to people coming into this country. I think it would make them realise that the tourist industry is very important to us.

We have in this country a great asset in our beautiful strands. They really could be made gold mines. They are there for the asking and they are waiting to be developed, but they must have reasonable amenities such as water, bathing huts and sanitary conveniences. If you give these amenities to the ordinary tourist he will come again, and, what is even better, will bring his young family with him. At the moment, there are no shelters on some of these strands so that tourists will not visit them. If they were developed fully by the aid of county council grants or with moneys available under this Bill, you would soon have a great number of tourists visiting them merely for the pleasure of sitting out and enjoying the sunshine, people who, perhaps, would not go to see historic ruins and who would go home definitely satisfied.

Mr. Dillon

I think the Minister for Industry and Commerce makes a mistake when he draws an antithesis between tourism and agriculture and says that tourism is almost as great an industry as agriculture. I think tourism is largely agriculture because I believe it is the victuals which we dispense that bring a very large volume of tourists to Ireland. Mind you, when the Minister in his capacity as the Tánaiste is feeling peculiarly industrially-minded, he might bear in mind that agriculture, when you come down to tin tacks, is the foundation upon which everything in this country rests. Exquisite as may be our scenery, and intriguing as may be our ruins and vast as may be our strands, if they could not be enjoyed by having good food available, a great many tourists would avoid them like a plague; but so long as they are well furnished by the produce of our agricultural industry they are a very considerable magnet.

I warmly agree with Deputy Mrs. Crowley when she speaks of the provision of simple equipment for our native strands as being a very potent means of bringing an eminently desirable type of tourist to this country, nothing elaborate but sufficient to make it practicable for families to bring their young children to the beach to spend a pleasant day there in peace and quiet, in the enjoyment of the sea and the fresh air. As Deputy Mrs. Crowley has said, such people will not only return themselves but will encourage others to come.

Sometimes my blood runs a little cold when I hear proposals for expanding tourism indefinitely. I doubt if there is any economic reward adequate for the conversion of a section of our coastline into a Coney Island or a Blackpool. I have no quarrel with people who want a Coney Island or a Blackpool, but I have no desire to establish a magnet to draw them here if they can find what they want 3,000 miles away. I think that the family visitor, the fisherman and the individual who can take pleasure without the yoke that goes round and round and plays like a melodeon, is a better neighbour, shall we say, on a summer's night than the man who cannot last two days without having the roundabout at his disposal, the spangle as his daily companion or the cinema as a refuge from the boredom of living. I doubt why we should get so excited about earning dollars. People work themselves into the most extraordinary position and say the most preposterous things. Has any Deputy ever sat down and looked at the sum of dollars that must be earned by the sterling area to bring dollars and sterling into equilibrium and then compared that total sum with the total national income of this country? It may be true what the old woman said when she spat in the sea and said "every little helps," but I think that you can carry that too far, and that you can distort the economy of a country like this on the fictitious thesis. To say that with the handful of dollars we can earn by the extremest effort and the distortion of our economy is going to make a significant contribution to restoring the convertibility of sterling is just nonsense.

I would urge on the House that what we want is to provide attractions for tourists, decent tourists whencever they may come—America, France, Great Britain, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Holland and Belgium. Think of all the people in the neighbouring islands who want to go to the Continent. They do not know a word of French, German, Spanish or Italian, but they batter their way around by shouting loudly in English at anybody whose attention they want to attract. They get away with it and get along very well. There must be people in France, Belgium, Sweden, Norway and Holland who, if things suited their circumstances, would come to us, and who, even if we did not understand their language, could have quite a good time here. I think we can throw too much emphasis on the importance of earning dollars from tourism. My desire would be to earn a decent tourist income whencever it came.

I want to make this submission to the Minister for Industry and Commerce that the Irish Tourist Board should have some function in relation to Irish tourists while appreciating that it is important to accommodate the foreigner who brings in his money. There is, surely, some obligation due to the residents of Drumcondra and Glasnevin and Ballyhaunis who want to take a week by the sea. I want to suggest, in elaboration of Deputy Mrs. Crowley's observations relating to our strands, that from Bray Head to the north of Portmarnock there are stretches of strand which compare with the best in the world. If they were in as close proximity to Sydney, New York or Los Angeles they would be developed with every conceivable amenity that could make them attractive for city-bred children. I would be very glad indeed to see tourists from abroad sharing those amenities, but I would get a real kick out of it if I felt that every child in Dublin, those in Lower Gardiner Street, Meath Street and York Street would, on a hot summer's day, be able to spend it on the strand and enjoy simple amenities there such as a suitably-sized springboard, off which they could jump into the sea, or a raft on to which they might clamber. What is needed is suitable equipment. There should also be a lifeguard to see that the children did not drown themselves. They would have no fun if they did not try to drown themselves about a half-a-dozen times during the day. But a lifeguard should be there to see that they did not succeed in drowning themselves.

That is what I would like to see. Their parents could go with them and relax on the beach. What a pleasure it would be to them to see the children in their bathing costumes disporting themselves. The duty of the guard would be to see that disaster was not allowed to overtake the children while disporting themselves. My submission is that, if reasonable amenities are provided, and if, instead of fixing our eyes on the residents of Texas, we fix them on the residents of Drumcondra, Ballsbridge, Stillorgan and Glasnevin, this miracle will prove to be true. In regard to recreation, if we provide the things which we understand our children desire, then I suggest they will prove fascinating and desirable to the children whether they be rich or poor.

I agree with Deputy Mrs. Crowley that the staffs in our hotels should be adequately trained. I seem to remember that the Minister did sponsor a scheme and was seeking the collaboration of the trade unions in respect of it, whereby hotel staffs could be trained on a reciprocal basis—that is to say, that a Swiss young man or woman, a French young man or woman or a German young man or woman who wanted to learn English in order to complete her or his equipment in the catering trade, would come here, and that we would send in exchange to those countries young persons chosen by the trade unions who would benefit from a course of exchange scholarships in Belgium, France, Switzerland or wherever they might with advantage go. If that project has not been proceeded with, I think it should be gone ahead with. I know that the trade unions have very strong views on this and will want reassurances of the most comprehensive kind that their membership, when trained, will not be displaced by those who come here as visiting students on an exchange basis. The trade unions are extremely suspicious about that and it is not always easy to carry assurance to their minds.

Deputy Esmonde spoke about fishing in this country. I agree with him, but I sometimes feel a little abashed that my successful exertions in that sphere do not seem to have impinged on the minds and memories of some of my colleagues here. I am sure many Deputies are aware that there is in existence a Fishery Trust with an annual endowment which was established by me, with one of the best secretaries, I think, available to any fishery trust in the world, a fishery trust which is prepared to take over, maintain and develop any fishery for trout or coarse fish in the country and make it freely available to any fishermen, domestic or foreign, who will pay a nominal licence fee. It will maintain it as a preserved fishery from which excessive coarse fish will be abstracted. The banks will be maintained and the waters will be carefully policed to prevent unauthorised poaching. It distresses me a little, instead of finding myself embarrassed by the number of Deputies rising on every side of the House to pay a tribute to me for my foresight and prudence in this matter, to discover that most Deputies rose to say that they thought this was something which ought to be done and that the sooner it was done the better. Well, it has been done. Deputy Esmonde can help me by referring any complaints which he may have received to the Fishery Trust. If he does so, he will find that it has at its disposal a service which is unrivalled in the world. That is a bold claim to make.

I observe that the Minister has made provision in the Bill to enable the board to give credit. I want to say this, that if there is one subject about which the rag has been chewed ad nauseam by advisory bodies in the United States, here and everywhere, it is tourism.

Now, there is only one piece of advice that everybody either at home or abroad had, and that was that the two existing bodies—the Irish Tourist Board and the Irish Tourist Association—ought to be amalgamated. There is not a sane body of experts who looked at this problem who has not emphasised that whoever does it it ought to be done in the future. Observe the situation into which the Oireachtas is being led on this Bill. We are now going to have not one board, not two boards, but three boards, all naturally concerned to demonstrate that itself is the most important and each one of which, if human nature has not undergone a revolution, devoting a good deal of its time to show that the necessity of the other two no longer exists. I know and the Minister knows and the Minister knows that I know why there is a third leaf to the shamrock; so resourceful is the Minister that the only thing that surprises me is that he did not announce that he was going to bring in a fourth board and make a four-leafed shamrock. The Minister has a cynical capacity for smiling at his own performances and then reversing them. There are few people who could construct this elaborate three-leafed shamrock and then admit in public three weeks later that the whole business was a cod, that he was going to ditch it because he had got what he wanted in another way. This can be one of the first times he turned that capacity for brass to a useful purpose.

I urge him to polish up the brazen aspect of his countenance and flash it on this ill-begotten shamrock and reduce the tourist instrument to a unit that will work.

Every speaker who intervened in this debate has emphasised this aspect of the Bill. Is it necessary to point out to the House if the Irish Tourist Board is to be responsible for the provision of accommodation and transport of incoming tourists, would any sane man suggest that the body to be charged with the responsibility of organising the arrival of tourists, the whereabout of their arrival and their requirements, is to be divorced from the body whose responsibility is to transport them on arrival and accommodate them while they are here? To argue this with the Minister is to bring coals to Newcastle or play a tin whistle to a tinker. He knows that just as well as every other Deputy knows it. But he wants to get his way. Nobody wants to take his cake of soap away from him. He need not cry any more. He said he would not be happy until he got it, but he has got it and now let us get on with the job.

A great many people talk about the things we want and the things tourists want. Tourists want what is here and they would not come here if they did not want that. That with which we are familiar may become contemptible in our eyes. It was not to-day or yesterday it was written that a prophet has little credit in his own country. We need not worry about providing new amenities by way of amusement. We should make the amenities we have as good of their kind as they can be made for our own people, and those who like to come over will come here and they will be welcome. What I and everybody else want is a certain minimum standard of comfort. When you reach the end of the day and want to go to bed you want to be able to wash. The other thing you want is that when you get into bed you will be able to stay in it and not roll off.

In America that kind of thing is understood. There is a kind of an idea abroad here that whenever one thinks of America one thinks of the Waldorf Astoria hotel. I remember when in an American hotel having to put the chair under the lock on the door in order to prevent the proprietor installing four other gentlemen with me in the room. I said I paid my 3 dollars and was going to get my 3 dollars worth. I and the proprietor parted bad friends in the morning. In that room there was a bed, a place to wash oneself with the appurtenances thereto.

I suggest to the Minister—if he wants to find that admirably carried out—that he will find it in the hotel built by the Pennsylvania State College for visitors visiting the State endowed college in the State of Pennsylvania. It is a star-shaped kind of building with dining rooms and what not in the centre and corridors of bedrooms radiating therefrom. All the rooms are the same. There is a modest bed with an interior spring mattress, or one of these rubber sponge mattresses. There is electric light, but above all, by skilful architectural design, in every room there is either a hot and cold shower or a hot and cold bath.

It is still possible to persuade tourists to do with baths 150 yards away from their bedrooms if there are enough, but the plain fact is that, while that will satisfy English tourists who come equipped to battle their way through whistling winds, flapping around about in their peignoirs, American women do not like it.

American men do not like it. They are accustomed to a bath and that type of amenity in their room. They know by experience how easy it is to provide it without elaborate luxury and, if they do not get it, they feel that they are being asked to live under primitive conditions.

If you want American tourists, you have to make up your mind to the fact that that is the way they live. If you want Chinese tourists, you ought to provide chopsticks and, if you do not want to provide chopsticks, you ought not to be trying to advertise the tourist amenities of Ireland in Peking. If you want to advertise the tourist amenities of this country in the United States of America, whether you think it is no more reasonable for the Americans to want that kind of thing than it is for the Chinese to want chopsticks, make up your mind that they expect it and want it, not with elaborate style, something very simple. All I can say to the Minister is that he will find it in perfect specimen style in the hotel at the Pennsylvania State University to which I have just referred which, bear in mind, is a cheap place designed for farmers or rural Pennsylvanians who come and spend a night with their sons who happen to be students at the Pennsylvanian State endowed college.

I welcome the provision in this Bill to make accessible to tourists and to our own people, not only knowledge of, but the means of visiting the vast number of historic monuments that exist in this country. I have heard Deputies speak to-day of the desirability of making them accessible. I want to make them known. There is not a Deputy who drives home every weekend who does not pass and repass many places of interest that he has never heard of and of which under the existing dispensation he will go down to his grave entirely ignorant. The astonishing thing is that tourists from America could tell you about features of the countryside and give you exhaustive descriptions of them which you know nothing about yourself because they have the curiosity to find out.

I have prepared a memorandum on the subject. The Minister will find it nestling somewhere in his Department. It was prepared about the 28th April, 1950. I refer, Sir, to a copious note for the purpose of refreshing my memory as to the contents of the memorandum:

"When in the United States recently, I visited the battlefield of Gettysburg. I was impressed by the extent to which this historic area had been marked by historical societies showing the exact site of various historic incidents that had taken place there. This development extended over a wide area in the State of Pennsylvania, and made travel through that State extremely interesting.

Ireland is full of interesting historic sites, archaeological and historical. I therefore suggest that the chief architect of the Board of Works should be asked to design an acceptable standard stone marker which would be readily recognised as such by passers-by; that a committee consisting of nominees by the Irish Historical Commission, the Museum, the National Library, the Irish Folklore Commission, and the Institute of Higher Studies, be established for the purpose of collecting information about all sites of archaeological and historical interest and preparing a short inscription which could be carved on a stone marker, and that the Ancient Monuments Division of the Board of Works be charged with the responsibility of preparing and installing these markers as opportunity presented itself.

I think the correct procedure would be for the committee gradually to assemble a catalogue of such inscriptions from which the Board of Works could draw as their resources permitted, so that over 20 or 30 years we would have a pretty comprehensive system of markers established throughout the country. Whereas from the short-term view we could get the more important ones done forthwith and allow the others to be added over the years."

That is a concise and succinct memorandum. It has the virtue of being on one sheet of foolscap paper. If acted upon, it will achieve a great part of the purpose of this Bill.

I renew my urgent appeal to the Minister for Industry and Commerce to assume the brazen countenance of the Tánaiste, bury the shamrock and concentrate on the creation of a simple single instrument to bring common sense to bear upon the development of the tourist industry in this country. If he will do that, I think he will find that he will receive from all sides of the House a measure of co-operation and support commensurate with the approval that such common sense on his part could not fail to evoke.

Mrs. Rice

People coming to this country do not expect to find a country the same as the one they have left. They are coming here to see Ireland as it is, its customs and its people, and all they want really is good, clean hotels and good cooking. In that matter some people have remarked to me that our meat is excellent but that our vegetables are very badly cooked and served and they often found in ordinary country houses in rural Ireland potatoes and other vegetables cooked much better than they would get in the best hotels in Dublin. I agree because, no matter what hotel you visit in this country, whatever is the cause, you never get vegetables cooked as well as you would get them in a country home.

Mr. Dillon

They do not cook the bacon with the cabbage.

Mrs. Rice

Even without the bacon. In any case, if the vegetables are not properly cooked and served, they will spoil any dinner. That is a point that was made to me by an American lady visiting this country.

Several people have referred to the condition of railway carriages. I heartily agree that they certainly need some cleaning up. If employment were given to more cleaners it would make all the difference in the world. They want extra cleaning and that could be easily carried out. That applies to all our train services and to the Great Northern Railways as well.

There is another matter that I wish to bring to the notice of the Tourist Board. As has been stated, American visitors to this country like to visit the shrines and monuments. I suggest that the local authorities should compile a list of the shrines and historic places in their localities and send it forward, even now, to the Board of Works, so that the shrines and monuments might be cleaned up a bit, or at least the most important of them, for the present season. An account of them could be compiled— not a very long, elaborate account, because Americans like their data short and snappy and will not read long accounts—dates and the history of the place would suffice. These accounts could be available in the hotels for the people who call there.

American tourists are very keen on Irish souvenirs. I regret to say that they do not always get Irish souvenirs. I was in Galway last summer and picked up an ornament representing an Irish leprechaun. It was made in Japan. That was supposed to symbolise Irish life. I do not think any of us ever met a leprechaun, even in the remotest part of Connemara. We have some very nice souvenirs that would bring pleasure to visitors. For those who can afford it we have Carrickmacross lace, for instance, Belleek china, and things of that sort. We have beautiful paintings of Irish landscapes by Irish artists. These would be in the luxury class. Then there are cheap prints of Celtic designs that represent Irish thought and Irish character, which would make very suitable souvenirs. Foreign-manufactured ornaments should not be on sale as depicting Irish life. Such foreign-manufactured souvenirs often depict barefooted Irish colleens. These are non-existent. One does not find them anywhere. I think the hotels should stock genuine souvenirs of the type I have mentioned.

As regards handcrafts, the Irish Tourist Board should get in touch with the lady who has the honour of being on the Committee of the Arts Council, about which we have heard so much. I do not think there is anyone in this country who would be better qualified to inform the Tourist Board as to where specimens of Irish handcrafts could be obtained which would be very suitable as souvenirs. Then we have the work of the blind who turn out beautiful things in wickerwork and leatherwork. These should be available in hotels for people who like to bring back souvenirs from this country.

Every phase of the tourist trade has been covered, from lack of parental control over Dublin newsboys to excessive drinking. I am not an authority on either of these, nor am I a social reformer, and I do not think the Tourist Board has anything to do with either. I rose to make these two suggestions, because it is very annoying to hear of people coming to this country and paying pretty good sums for ornaments which are supposed to represent Irish life and then finding that they are not made in the country at all. I agree with much of what has been said about improving our country roads and our transport facilities, and I hope that the sale of these crude ornaments to which I have referred to tourists will cease, and, if we have to sell them anything, that we will sell them something which will be Irish, something representative of the Irish people and something of which we and they can be proud.

Mr. Dillon

Some of the leprechauns were Irish.

Mrs. Rice

Have you ever seen one? I have not.

Mr. Dillon

They were made up in Drumcondra.

Dr. Browne

I do not intend, more than I can help, to reiterate many of the excellent suggestions that have been made with regard to the development of our tourist trade. I might say that I am a reluctant, a rather shaky convert, to belief in tourism as part of the economy of a nation, being very much more of the opinion that a nation's economy should be balanced by the inter-play of industries over which we have more permanent control than the rather ephemeral industry of tourism, which depends upon so many other factors over which one has so little control. However, that is all of little importance now that it has been decided that we should develop energetically a tourist trade.

There are points of general principle governing the development of this trade in which I am interested. One of these is that to which most Deputies have referred—the multiplicity of boards controlling the tremendous industry the development of which is now envisaged. I am rather surprised that the Minister has not decided to take the courageous step— it would need courage, I think—of establishing a main supervisory board with executive powers to develop our tourist traffic, on the general principle, with which I am quite certain he is very much more conversant than I am, that, where you have to discharge a single function, it does complicate and render extremely difficult the achievement of the maximum amount of efficiency where there is divided responsibility.

I can see that the Minister perhaps has his own good answer to that, but I can see no advantage at all in the multiplication of these boards. I can, on the other hand, see the tremendous advantages which have flowed from many of the enterprises for which the Minister in the past was responsible, enterprises which have prospered as a result of the drive and the initiative and the courage he showed in the establishment of the different industries which he did initiate. I am surprised to see that he has changed in this very fundamental way in establishing the three boards now envisaged in the Bill.

In my own limited experience of these matters, I considered that one board entrusted with the functions, powers and authorities acted at its most expeditious and was at its most effective when it contained within its powers all the necessary functions and authorities. On the other hand, where there were more than one body of people responsible for the achievement of a main objective, I saw nothing but small-mindedness and restricted, narrow views on the proper method of achieving that objective—a parochial-mindedness about the right way and a selfishness with regard to decisions in the form of: "This is our responsibility," or "This is not your responsibility," or "This comes into our part of the functions and you are interfering," and so on. The result was that very little progress was made, unless you had an overriding authority to enter into all parts of the particular job to be done.

If we were to take Aer Lingus, Bord na Móna, Comhlucht Siúicre, the Electricity Supply Board or any of these enterprises and to do in relation to them what it is intended to do in this Bill; if we were to establish a publicity section in Bord na Móna, a section for the control of the power end of the business, another section for turf distribution and another for turbo-electric stations, and to give each of these separate functions in respect of the achievement of the one aim, the development of peat fuel as our national fuel, I am quite certain that we could not achieve anything like the same degree of efficiency, with economy of effort, as is achieved at present under the different boards which run these national companies. I understand that there is a certain amount of liaison by virtue of the fact that a number of the directors are members of the different boards. I do think, however, that it is taking a step which does not appear to be justified. Probably the Tánaiste can justify it; I will be interested to hear, but where he has had the example of successful experiments in handing over big undertakings and industries to groups, nominees of his own, under these Acts and regulations it does appear strange that he has not had—"the courage" are not quite the right words, because he has never shown a lack of that in these matters—but direct action in relation to this matter. It has been agreed by everybody that tourism and its development is tremendously important for the national economy, the balance of payments and all the rest, and consequently I would have thought that it was a matter so much above any personal or other considerations that it would merit a very radical approach if he considered that approach desirable in the public interest.

I do not think that there is very much I would care to say of the amenities to be provided for tourists. I consider that it will, in the first instance, be a function of the board and their nominee, the general manager, to work for the money it is intended to pay them. There are, however, general considerations which condition the development of a tourist industry in any country and which apply here as everywhere else.

I have only a couple of comments to make concerning the earning of dollars, and I am quite certain that the board will think of these things themselves. One, however, might require a little emphasis, and that is whether, for the encouragement of dollar tourists, it would be possible to provide tax-free export facilities which they find abroad so that they might buy our industrial products, such as those mentioned by Deputy Mrs. Rice—souvenirs, our whiskey, and so on—as this would encourage the spending of dollars on these commodities here in Ireland. The Tánaiste is probably aware that this is done in France, where the American tourist is given every facility in the exportation of liqueurs, brandies and other products of the country. The difficulty of abuses appears to be overcome.

There is one other question on the dollar-earning aspect of tourism: To what extent are the British tourist bureaux in America taking over the dollars which are spent by American tourists intending to do a round tour? Is there any arrangement whereby dollars spent on travel in Ireland on a round tour are recouped to our Government, or do British tourist companies take the dollars and make facilities available by sterling through our railways, airlines, and so on?

I wonder if consideration could be given to travelling facilities for young people of other nations? I do not think that sufficient emphasis has been laid on that particular point. One of the few voluntary organisations for which I have tremendous admiration is An Oige, which does a great deal of work here to facilitate foreign young men and women to come over and stay in youth hostels very inexpensively and to see the country—cycling, walking and, to a limited extent, by our rivers and canals.

I wonder if we could give a little more consideration to facilitating these young people to come to Ireland, because it must naturally be remembered that if you could create regard and respect for our country and for our customs in the minds of the young people of other countries you might create the tourist of five, ten or 15 years' time, when the other nations will have developed their tourism and have the three-inch steaks to attract tourists as against what we can offer. Even if you leave that point aside, I am a tremendous believer in the interchange of young people between the different nations, it being, I believe, one of the most important influences in reducing the likelihood of their having bizarre and odd ideas about one another which can lead to such serious consequences if they are used by the wrong people when they require those young people to take sides against one another.

I would be particularly glad to see in this Bill an extension of the powers given to the board so that they could acquire some of the considerable estates, access to which is still withheld from our people in very beautiful areas, in Wicklow, Connemara or Killarney. Their protection and development as national parks is a matter which, if possible, should be taken up by this board. I am not quite certain whether they have the powers or not, and I would be glad to know if that idea could be developed by them: national parks in areas of beauty, with rivers and lakes. There are plenty of estates at present owned by individuals who very often spend a great part of their time outside the country, having made sure before they left that their estates were plastered with notices, "No trespass", "Trespassers will be prosecuted", and suchlike objectionable features—in my view, at any rate—in our countryside. I am quite certain that if our young people and the young people who come in from other nations were given access to these places they would respect them as they have been taught to respect them in other countries.

Again, one of the very important aspects which might be developed is the rivers, particularly the Shannon. In order to develop them there is a number of different considerations, but one of the most important is—as abroad, in Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia and France—the development of river maps for people using canoes, small boats and such other ways of travelling.

Furthermore, if the Government is very keen on the earning of dollars— and I am certain they are—they might possibly adopt an idea used by the Germans prior to the last war, when they were very anxious to collect sterling above all things and when it was useful to them. They developed the use of the Reichmark, for which the tourist travel exchange was at the rate of 20 to the £ instead of 12 marks to the £. It was merely an idea which served them very well indeed. They were able to accumulate a tremendous amount of sterling which they later blew back in various ways at the people who provided it. I wonder if there is any way in which dollars at special rates might be won for our people by similar means.

I suppose that Fógra Fáilte would be responsible for the issuing of maps, tourist brochures and other things like that, which at present are so terribly inadequate and so very poor indeed. If I might mention another point— which might help a bit regarding Deputy Mrs. Rice's good point about the terribly bad food in the average hotel—it is a development on the line of the Michelin Guide, in which the hotels are graded according to the standard of the food. Deputy P. O'Donnell referred to the grading by the A.A., which did help, but the Michelin Guide goes very much further and give a very good idea of the quality of food and the standard of comfort in a very detailed way. If the hotelier is faced in black and white with this cold-blooded assessment of his limitations or good qualities, it would be an incentive to him to improve or maintain a high standard.

There is one final point which interests me, namely, the question of the extension of licences to the smaller hotels. This must be approached in a cold-blooded, objective way. If the Minister and the House decide that this industry, for the benefit of the community as a whole, shall be developed in a particular way, then developed in that way it must be. It does appear, however, that one of the provisions in this Bill which would make it possible for smaller hotels to obtain licences for intoxicating liquor is being very bitterly resented and fought in the way that these gentlemen have for fighting these things, as the famous phrase once used goes, "secretly and behind closed doors".

I have been particularly interested to notice around the lobbies of the House a number of these people high up in the hierarchy of this particular trade and a little worried by the effects which this lobbying may have. However, I am quite certain that the policy outlined in this Bill is the carefully thought out policy of the Minister and of the Government. It is their considered opinion that we should have these extensions in order to provide facilities for the earning of a lot of money, both dollars and sterling. I am quite certain that they will be proof against the blandishments, pressure, squeeze or whatever it may be to be applied by these people in suppressing the extension of licensing, if that should be considered necessary.

They have, through their organisations over the years, succeeded in keeping the number of licences reduced to the very bare minimum. This is, of course, a perfectly understandable thing, in so far as they are fighting for their livelihood. We here in the Oireachtas, on the other hand, are fighting for the welfare of our people and I am quite certain that the Tánaiste will keep that uppermost in his mind if he does find that he is being subjected to any undue pressure from outside. As I have said, it has come to my notice directly and also I have seen a familiar figure—a figure more familiar to me in the old days as an entrepreneur in a very unwholesome business in the past, who now appears to be taking up his old role and using this curious form of diplomacy to seek gain for one section of the community against the best interests of the community as a whole. We will watch with great interest the success or otherwise of these people.

A final point, a very obvious one, which this board will have to bear in mind, is that if we are going to double the number of tourists coming into the country the amount of shipping available to carry them will have to be considerably increased. There was almost a very grave scandal last summer, due to the queues and the difficulties of people in obtaining accommodation. I am certain that that point needs no emphasis on my part to the Tánaiste, that long in anticipation of the demand something will be done to provide proper transport and shipping facilities between here and Great Britain. If he finds that the companies will not co-operate, I am sure he will take steps which are open to him to provide for their deficiencies himself. Possibly he would also consider having some form of customs clearance carried out in transit, rather than on the quays as at present, something on the lines carried out by the Great Northern Railway, which would facilitate very much the quick disembarkation of passengers. I move the adjournment of the debate.

Debate adjourned.