Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Mar 1952

Vol. 129 No. 12

Sittings of Dáil

Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach (Donnchadh Ó Briain)

I move:—

That notwithstanding anything to the contrary in Standing Orders, the following provisions shall apply in respect of sittings of the Dáil until the adjournment for the Easter Recess:—

(a) The Dáil shall meet at 10.30 a.m. on Thursdays and the Order for the Adjournment shall be taken not later than 5 p.m.;

(b) Questions to Ministers on the Order Paper on Thursdays shall be taken at 3 p.m., at which time the business under consideration shall be interrupted.

This is a motion that has resulted from consultations with the Whips of the various other Parties and represents the greatest common measure of agreement that, I understand, could be got. I want to make it perfectly clear that the Fine Gael Party would not agree to this proposal at any time. I had discussions with the Whips of other Parties last week, and, as a result of those discussions, I put down this motion in regard to future sittings of the Dáil.

Mr. Sweetman

I understood that the arrangement was going to be that we would accept these hours for Thursday this week, and that it would be agreed that we would sit next week on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, and then see next week when we would sit.

Donnchadh Ó Briain

I mentioned to Deputy Sweetman last night that this motion was to be put in.

Mr. Sweetman

I know, but do I understand from the Government that they are now taking the view that, though they have indications already that this Party, which is the largest Party in the House on the Opposition side, and the Labour Party—the Labour Party Whip was not available last night—are also prepared to agree on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday and that the members of the Clann na Talmhan Party also believe that Wednesday, Thursday and Friday would be better sitting days, that notwithstanding all that, they are still adhering to their view?

An Tánaiste

It is quite obvious that if any progress is to be made with business it will be necessary for the House to meet on Tuesdays, and that the Government could not agree to any arrangement which did not involve Tuesday meetings. The only question that requires to be decided is whether the hours of meeting on Thursdays should be the normal hours from 3 p.m. to 10.30 p.m., or whether they should be 10.30 a.m. to 5 p.m. So far as that question is concerned, while the members of the Government would normally find it more convenient to meet from 3 p.m. to 10.30 p.m., an investigation carried out by our Whips suggested that the great majority of Deputies would prefer to meet on Thursdays from 10.30 a.m. to 5 p.m. We are prepared to agree to that, but there is no possibility of forgoing the meetings on Tuesdays.

Mr. Sweetman

The difference between meeting on a Tuesday and meeting on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday will not give any more hours. You will have the same number of hours by sitting on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday as you would have by sitting on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.

An Tánaiste

Twenty-five years' experience has convinced me that very little progress is made with public business on a Friday.

Mr. Sweetman

But is not the same number of hours involved? There is no argument about hours. You will have the same number of hours by sitting on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

General Mulcahy

Apparently the Tánaiste's idea of progress with regard to business here is to get business through at a time when Deputies cannot be in the House.

An Tánaiste

You must not attribute that view to me. What I said was that an inquiry showed that the great majority of Deputies in the House preferred the hours set out in the motion.

Mr. Sweetman

Not the 40 Deputies on this side.

General Mulcahy

The Tánaiste said that 25 years' experience had shown him that progress could only be made when we sat on a Tuesday.

An Tánaiste

No. I said that very little progress was made with public business on a Friday.

General Mulcahy

If progress is not made on a Friday, then I cannot understand how it can be made on the same hours on a Thursday. This proposal is put before the House without any explanation being given to the House in an orderly and systematic way as to what the reasons are for sitting on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday instead of Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. I submit that, while the Tánaiste may be a little bit innocent in regard to his ideas of progress, the fact is that it does not suit Deputies coming from the country to come up here on a Tuesday. It means that they have to start on a Monday and that, instead of being able to discharge an amount of their business in the early part of the week, they have to come up here and then try to get back in time to wind up the work which they had to break off on Monday. This matter has been very carefully considered by our Party, and we are entirely of the view that, except a four days' sitting is required by Government business, we should not sit on Tuesday.

An Tánaiste

Deputies understand, of course, that under Standing Orders the House should meet on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of every week. Normally, when business does not warrant it, we do not meet on a Tuesday, but no motion is required to get the House to meet on a Tuesday or Friday. This motion arises because there was a general view that if we were going to meet on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday it would be preferable to meet during the hours set out in the motion than during the hours prescribed by Standing Orders. So far as the Government is concerned, they are prepared to let that matter be settled by a majority of the House— that is the hours of meeting on Thursday. Our inquiry elicited the information that a very substantial majority of Deputies would prefer to meet during those hours on Thursday rather than the hours prescribed by Standing Orders.

Breanndán Mac Fheórais

So far as the Labour Party is concerned, we agreed last week that we would be prepared to sit on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday up to 5 o'clock of this week, and that during this week we would reconsider the matter among the Whips as regards a standing arrangement for the rest of the session. But there was no desire expressed by the Party that we would sit on Friday in preference to Thursday.

An Tánaiste

If the House will agree to the motion in respect to this week, then, in view of the fact that Monday next is a bank holiday, I will be quite prepared to agree that we meet on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of next week——

Mr. Sweetman

That is what we put to the Government last night.

An Tánaiste

——and that arrangements as regards the remaining couple of weeks before the Easter Recess should be discussed later. I think it is obvious that we will need to meet on three full days each week in order to dispose of the business.

Mr. Sweetman

That is exactly what I suggested last night.

An Tánaiste

Any proposal which does not involve meeting on Thursday must be ruled out in view of the statements made.

Mr. Dillon

May I in this atmosphere of peace and concord direct the attention of the Tánaiste to the fact that the practice of closing down at 5 o'clock on Thursday involves the sacrifice of Private Deputies' time during the six months taken up with financial discussion? I do not seriously complain of that but I suggest that, if the House decides to close down early on Thursday, some special regard should be had to a Private Deputy's Bill or motion which he is anxious to bring before the House. I say no more than that.

An Tánaiste

Normally when Private Deputies' time is taken for public business, as it usually is at this time of the year, consideration is given to the possibility of making it up in some way later on.

Mr. Byrne

Can the Minister say if the Legal Adoption Bill will be excluded because Private Members' time is being taken?

An Tánaiste

The Legal Adoption Bill will be introduced as a Government measure. It is agreed then that the Dáil will meet to-morrow at 10.30 and sit until 5 p.m. We will resume on Wednesday next at 3 o'clock and the House recognises that the Dáil will meet on Friday of next week also.

General Mulcahy

And Friday's hours will be 10 o'clock to half-past two.

An Tánaiste

I do not want to commit myself to that. The Vote on Account and financial business must be concluded next week so that the Seanad will have a reasonable time to deal with the Bill, though I hope it will be completed long before Friday.

Mr. Sweetman

I hae ma doots.

Mr. Killilea

As a country Deputy, it is suggested that we are meeting here next Tuesday.

General Mulcahy

We are not.

Mr. Killilea

We are meeting on next Wednesday. Monday is a holiday. Most country Deputies have to come up here the day before the Dáil meets. We will lose Monday because it is a holiday and we will lose Tuesday travelling up here. We will spend Wednesday, Thursday and Friday in the Dáil. If we met on Tuesday country Deputies could get home on Thursday and they would have Friday, Saturday and Monday at home to do some work on their farms. I do not think we should facilitate the lawyers and other professional people all the time.

Mr. Sweetman

There are farmers over here, too, and better farmers.

General Mulcahy

It seems to me this House is being prejudiced in its work because of the Executive Council wanting to convenience itself.

An Tánaiste

On the contrary. I said from the point of view of the Executive Council, Thursday is more convenient.

Mr. MacEntee

Deputy General Mulcahy is living in the past. The Executive Council perished with the Free State.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.