I think that the main Estimate would have been a more appropriate occasion on which to discuss the policy and the whole idea of the news agency, but some things have been said in this debate to which I must reply, and information has been asked for which I must give.
I am quite aware of all that was said during the debate when the Act establishing this news agency went through the House. I think it is wrong for Deputy Cosgrave to say that no one thought that the news agency was going to deal with what is called "hot" news. At that time Deputy Cosgrave was a Parliamentary Secretary. He was, I understand, secretary to the Cabinet and saw all the documents. There was one document in connection with the foundation of the news agency of which he should have had knowledge. That document was the articles of association of the news agency. In it it is stated that one of the objects of the company was:
"(1) To carry on the business of a news agency in all its branches and to ensure the collection, dissemination, distribution and publication of news, intelligence and photographs inside and outside Ireland and for these purposes to use any telephone, telegraph or wireless system or any other means of communication."
That was a document that was passed by the Government and it was signed by a number of very senior civil servants. It was quite clear from that document that it was anticipated that the news agency would deal with "hot" news. That action of the Government was somewhat different from the statement made by the then Minister who piloted the Bill through the Dáil. The fact is that the agency to the knowledge and with the consent of the Government was given the power to deal with "hot" news. When this present Government came into office, we had to deal with the situation as we found it. The news agency was operating a news service, and a fair amount of public money had been spent in building up that organisation. Hopes had been aroused that it would be a success and in spite of the fact that a number of members of our Party, and the Party as a whole, were against the organisation proposed for the news agency, we were determined that we would do everything we could to make it a success if it could be made a success.
I encouraged the directors to get into contact with foreign news agencies and to try and link up with them so that there would be an exchange of Irish news for foreign news in order that we might have a good chance of doing what it was hoped would be done by the agency, which was to give foreign newspapers Irish sources of Irish news rather than have Irish news collected and disseminated by foreign news agencies.
Last night Deputy Cosgrave recommended that we should close the whole thing down. He said it was a complete failure. I am not in a position to confirm what Deputy Cosgrave said. Certain contacts have been made by the news agency which in the course of time will help it to fulfil the functions of conveying Irish news abroad and help it also to earn some cash.
It was at my urgent request that the chairman of the news agency opened up negotiations with an American news agency (the International News Service) in order to make contact whereby they would get news from that service, and that service would be under contract to take Irish news and deliver it to American newspapers. That contract was signed last year. The result will be that the Irish News Agency will get the service of the International News Service, and at the same time the International News Service will deliver to the New York desk so many words per day given to it by the Irish News Agency. Similarly, exchange contracts have been made with Press agencies in France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain and with certain other news agencies. I have no means yet of knowing what exactly the news agency's balance sheets will reveal next year or in the years ahead. When the exchange contract between the news agency and the International News Service—the American news agency—is in operation for some months we shall be able to see how the arrangement works out.
Deputy MacBride made one very true statement to-night and that is, that every question asked about the news agency in this House and every statement made about it postpones the day when it will earn a profit. For that reason I should have preferred to see the present organisation much further away from, and independent of, Government and Government Departments. However, we had not to deal with a clean sheet of paper. We took over an organisation and it was up to the Minister who had responsibility to the Dáil for it to do the best he could with the organisation that was there. One of the things that one learns in life is that too much chopping and changing is bad and that it is sometimes better to make the best use of an organisation that is not 100 per cent. perfect than to spend too much time and energy on perfecting a new organisation.
I took over what I candidly said in this House I did not believe to be the best type of organisation to do the work which every Irishman would like to see done, but our predecessors had organised it on that basis and it was up to us to make it a success. I have tried to tell the House that the agency has been successful in getting contracts with foreign agencies. It has been successful in getting items of Irish news into the continental and British and American papers. I hope it will be still further successful in that respect. I hope, when the main Estimate is before the House, to discuss the matter more fully. The members can make up their minds at that time, after hearing every aspect of the case, whether they want to see the news agency go ahead or brought to an end.
When the time came for the election of new directors or the reappointment of existing directors to the board, in order to give the agency every chance and so that nobody could possibly allege that politics were being played in connection with the news agency, I reappointed the four directors who were available for reappointment. These were men who believed in the news agency and who had experience of its difficulties. I reappointed them and gave them every possible help I could to ensure the success of the agency.
Deputy Cogan referred to competition with journalists. Before Christmas he raised the matter of a statement which was made by the National Union of Journalists to the effect that the livelihood of the working journalist was being jeopardised by the activities of the news agency. I promised Deputy Cogan then that we would try to settle that dispute with the board of the news agency and the National Union of Journalists. Very shortly afterwards the members of the board met the members of the executive of this union and came to complete agreement. Shortly after the meeting an announcement was published in the Press to the effect that complete agreement had been reached between the Union and the Irish News Agency.
Deputy Dunne referred to a gross error which was made by an employee of the news agency in connection with an official of Limerick City. I answered a question put by Deputy Dunne during the year on that matter and explained how the error occurred. I also pointed out that the official of Limerick City who had been misrepresented had been approached by the officers of the Irish News Agency who expressed their regret to him. This officer of the City of Limerick said: "The Irish News Agency have apologised and I am satisfied that it was not really their fault. They have since acted in a most gentlemanly manner in regard to the matter and I am quite satisfied." He was the one man who had a grievance about that particular story.
Deputy Cosgrave raised the question of two offices—one in Fleet Street and the other in Grafton Street. He said that the news agency started in Fleet Street and then went to premises in Grafton Street. That is not the actual position. The news agency started in Grafton Street. They then found that the premises were too small to enable them to expand into the photographic business and they took premises in a basement in Fleet Street. Although those premises are located in a basement they are quite healthy, being well-ventilated and well-lighted though not palatial. I think that they are functionally good for the work the news agency has to do and that they are very centrally situated.
They are situated close to the newspaper offices and to the offices of a number of journalists who work in that area. Deputy Cosgrave asks how many people are employed by the news agencies. There are at headquarters in Dublin, including typists, messengers and everybody else, 43; in London, nine; and in Belfast, two. That is 54 in all, including the officers of the organisation, typists and messengers. Deputy Cosgrave asks whether news agency matter was availed of by foreign correspondents. News agency material, of course, is, as I said, sent out to the various foreign agencies I enumerated at the beginning of my speech. It is also available for correspondents here and for correspondents of foreign papers. Of course, if a foreign news agency is looking for a report, I do not suppose that they get it very quickly if the Irish News Agency can sell it themselves. I think it is a source of grievance with some foreign news agencies that the Irish News Agency do not do all their work for them. Deputy Cosgrave said that there was no real justification for continuing this expenditure. I wish Deputy Cosgrave had expressed that opinion before the news agency started and got the matter more thoroughly thrashed out than it seems to have been by the previous Government.
In the debate on the Bill here in this House everybody thought that the scheme had been thoroughly examined and that it had the unanimous support of all the sections of which the last Government was composed. We are discovering now regarding this news agency as in regard to a number of other matters that there was in fact no real unity amongst the Government and that they could not do very effective work. I have to come here to-night looking for £20,000 simply because the last Government did not make the provision that the directors asked them for. When the Estimates for the present financial year were being prepared the directors pointed out that £37,000 would be required to keep the news agency in being for the financial year. The previous Government however in spite of the fact that they were told that it would cost £37,000, made provision in the Estimates only for £25,000. We have to meet the deficit on the working year and it is for that deficit I am asking the Dáil to provide by this Supplementary Estimate.