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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Mar 1952

Vol. 129 No. 12

Committee on Finance. - Sea Fisheries Bill, 1951—Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

When I was speaking last night, I referred to some objections which I had to this Bill. In the first place, I objected because I considered it to be wrong in principle to hand this industry over to a State controlled body. I am convinced that no Government Department can run a business successfully. It can run it all right, but it cannot run it successfully. The method under which the board is to be appointed, for a period of two years, clearly indicates that there is to be no serious attempt to build up a skilled and trained body of men who would be competent to deal with the matter. One could understand them spending a period of apprenticeship, but here we have an organisation dealing with what should be a great industry and it will be changed every second year.

I would say that even at the end of two years no man appointed to this board would have a full grasp of the organisation, management, control and erection of an industry of this kind. Of course it is impossible to think that this body, recruited every two years, could make a success of the industry. They will be mere apprentices, each and every one of them. That is the first weak link in this proposal, that they are mere apprentices and never can get a grasp of the industry. This body, whether a private body or a body nominated by the Minister, would require two things, one a short-term policy from which it could move successfully into a long-term policy. We shall be told of course that these men, after they have been in office for two years, can be re-nominated. They can, of course, but will that happen? We shall have changes of Government, and after two years has expired the Government in office will appoint its own nominees. I had to refer to this Bill last night in language that I do not like using. I made a deliberate charge of political bias in nominating these men. The remarkable thing about this Bill is that there is no section dealing with disqualification so far as this Government-controlled body is concerned. That creates a sinister feeling towards the Bill. I could not avoid the conclusion that the omission of such a section was done for the deliberate purpose of giving a political slant to the Bill, that it was done so as to leave it open for politicians to be appointed to the board. If that were done, it would, in my opinion, be a shocking thing. This House would be wanting in its duty to those who are dependent on this industry if we consented to do anything like that. It would mean disaster right away.

In every other Bill passed in this House since the foundation of this State, under which a statutory body was being set up—controlled by the Government as it were or by a Government Department—there was a disqualification clause in it. It was effective up to the point that no active politician could become a member of the board. Was the omission of such a clause in this Bill deliberate or accidental? One can hardly imagine that those responsible for the promotion of the Bill could have been guilty of such an oversight. I expressed regret about that last night, and I had to use strong language. I will never wince as regards the expression of my views or in the doing of my duty in a matter of this kind.

One has to think of the many people and the many families throughout the west, south and the east who had hoped to get a good livelihood out of this industry. It will mean the wrecking of the entire industry and that the people who have been making a living out of it will have to emigrate unless we set up such machinery as will have inherent in it the prospects of success. If this body is going to be directly controlled politically there will be no hope of that. I hope that, on the Committee Stage, the Parliamentary Secretary will be prepared to accept an amendment calculated to eliminate any suspicion as regards bringing this organisation directly into politics and of having it politically controlled.

I take it that the Parliamentary Secretary is substantially acquainted with the way the industry is run at present. He will know that men all around the coast of Ireland have put money into this industry in a small way but in a big way for them. They are not wealthy men but they have put their savings into the provision and building of boats. Locally they give continuous employment to quite a number of men. They have built up their own organisation. When fish are landed they deal with the fishermen. Some of the fish is sold locally and the balance is sent to Dublin or, perhaps, to England. I would like to know from the Parliamentary Secretary what he proposes to do with those men. We cannot summarily dismiss them and wreck their careers. I hope the House will not be guilty of an outrage such as that. On the Committee Stage I hope to take steps to ensure that the interests of those men will be protected.

I regret, again, that this industry has not been handed over to private enterprise. I fail to understand why it is now to be State controlled in view of the fact that some months ago we had the Undeveloped Areas Bill which to a large extent deals with the very same areas. Under that Bill the principle of private enterprise was asserted by the Minister for Industry and Commerce. He absolutely refused to play any part in setting up State industries in the areas embraced under his Bill. I believe that if this were handed over to private enterprise it would lead to success. I see no future for the industry under this Bill. It will be a drag on the taxpayers. They will be called upon to keep the thing struggling along, and we will never get anywhere. The men appointed on the board will not have the knowledge or experience or the time to get a grip of the job that is envisaged in the Bill and to make a success of it. I think that the whole structure outlined in the Bill is bad and is definitely bound to fail.

In the very early days of this State, in fact even before we had a Government acting as a de facto Government under the First or Second Dáil, the importance of the fishing industry for this island was regarded as being of the highest importance. It was realised then that it would demand a big effort on the part of the Government to develop it. In fact, it was looked upon with such importance that the Government under the First Dáil appointed a Minister for Fisheries who would devote all his time to the development of the industry. In the course of time, that ministerial position was wiped out. I am glad to see, however, that the Government is making an effort to revert to that position to which I have alluded by delegating a Parliamentary Secretary to look after the interests of the fishing industry.

It strikes those of us who can remember 45 and 50 years ago that the amount of fish available in the market for a number of years has been very small. Forty and 50 years ago teams of horses and carts, or vans, went out from the different provincial towns to the fishing centres and brought back to those towns quantities of fish for distribution in the markets. Fish was indeed a very common dish in certain areas in those days. In the more remote inland towns I admit fish was not so common, but a large section of our people had a frequent opportunity of providing themselves with fish.

I often wonder why the quantity of fish has declined. I have heard complaints from fishermen that fish are becoming scarcer every year. They put forward their own views as to the reason for that scarcity. Whether it is due to those who are responsible for the industry from a governmental point of view or to some other cause the fact is that fish is not available to-day in anything like the same quantity as it was 30, 40 and 50 years ago. Are less fish coming into our waters? Is there some other reason why our fishermen can no longer get the same volume of fish as they did 40 and 45 years ago?

One Deputy made no bones last night about throwing responsibility for the scarcity of fish on those responsible for the industry since the establishment of our own State. I do not know whether or not he can support his charges with facts. I have been a member of a harbour board for many years, and I would like to take this opportunity of paying tribute to the Sea Fisheries Association in appreciation of the work that body has done. On any occasion on which an appeal has been made to them they have done everything they possibly could in order to help in providing adequate landing facilities, repairing harbours or making some other amenities available for our fishermen. In and around Arklow and Wicklow they have always met their obligations.

I welcome the Bill as something that will help to bring about a change in the old order of things. I am not prepared at the moment to discuss whether the old system was a good one or a bad one. Fishermen on parts of the east coast complain that the industry is a dying one and, in proof of that, they point to the fact that many families made a good living out of the fishing industry in years gone by, while to-day only a very limited number are engaged in it, because there is no longer any living to be found in it. Anything that will help to change the present position is to be welcomed.

The new body established under this measure will be in a position to provide for the distribution of fish all over the country. On a few occassion, in the town of Wicklow, when the herring season started and a few good catches had been made, the fishermen were advised, even though there were herrings out in the bay for the taking away, not to go out any more because there would be no market for their catch. If this Bill improves that position in the future, it will be a good Bill and a welcome Bill. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will use his influence with the new board to take the necessary steps to ensure that a situation such as I have outlined will not again arise. Where there is a plentiful supply of fish available, the fishermen should know that, if they are prepared to catch it, the authority responsible through this board will see to it that the fish is disposed of in the interest of the fishermen and of the community as a whole.

I have no doubt that the Parliamentary Secretary, who has a deep knowledge of the fishing industry, will, by this Bill, put an end to those matters that have prevented the development of the industry and, at the same time, will provide for the people in every part of the country an adequate supply of fish.

The next question to which I wish to refer is the cost of boats. Deputy Joseph Brennan also referred to that matter. Complaints are made to me constantly, first of all, in regard to the cost of boats and, secondly, in respect of the percentage that must be paid before a boat is supplied. I know that any person who would be provided with a boat and gear for the purpose of engaging in the fishing industry should be prepared to show his enthusiasm by paying a certain amount of money as a guarantee that he is a person to whom a boat should be issued and who will honour his obligation. It has been put to me that the percentage that must be deposited is a heavy burden on the individual. I am sure the Parliamentary Secretary will bear that in mind and will try to meet the fishermen in the matter.

I welcome the Bill because of the financial provisions contained in it. I hope that, as a result of the operation of the Bill, the fishing industry will be placed in its proper position and will receive the support it merits both from the general public and the responsible authority.

I think there are very few Deputies who are as familiar as the Parliamentary Secretary with the problems which face the country in connection with the revival of the fishing industry. I wonder if the Parliamentary Secretary feels really happy and satisfied that this Bill will accomplish what he so ardently desires and what the country as a whole would like to see taking place?

Much as I regret to have to say it, I think it is only right that we should all be clear on one point so far as the fishing industry as a whole is concerned, and that is, that the real decline in the fishing industry took place in this country as soon as the people of the Twenty-Six Counties got control of that portion of our land. It is regrettable that that should be the case, that that decline commenced when the British were kicked out of this part of the country and has continued down the years.

It may be that those men who were responsible for the Government of this country since it achieved the measure of political freedom which we have to-day were busy on other matters such as painting our letter-boxes green or dealing with matters of a political nature rather than with the serious economic matters such as our fishing industry and agriculture. It is an extraordinary thing that the fishing industry, which should be to-day second only to that of agriculture, is now something that has only those Deputies to a great extent, at any rate, who come from seaboard areas interest themselves to speak on this important matter.

Debate adjourned.
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