asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he is aware that the 5,000 tons of timber recently exported to Belfast from Dublin were sold at approximately £130 per Dublin standard, this price being some £50 less than current Dublin prices, and if he will state whether before the issue of export licences for such timber inquiries were made by his Department as to whether or not the timber in question was offered at the reduced price to local authorities or others engaged in building in Éire.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Timber Prices.
As I have stated in reply to questions on the 19th November about this timber, I have no information as to the terms upon which the timber was sold. The reply to the second part of the Deputy's question is in the negative.
Are we to take it that an export licence was issued in respect of timber bought at a high price with hard currency, and that it was sold to merchants in Belfast at a considerably lower price than that prevailing at present in the Twenty-Six Counties? Were no inquiries made to see if that timber could be sold locally at the reduced price?
The situation is as I have explained it in my reply. In this country there is available an abnormal stock of timber which was purchased at prices substantially higher than those now prevailing in the world markets. I considered that it would be an advantage if some part of that stock could be disposed of by way of export. I informed the Timber Merchants' Association that I would give an export licence if they could find an opportunity of disposing of part of the stocks. They did, to a very small extent. My undertaking to give that licence was in reply to a claim by them that there was an obligation on the Government to relieve them of the possibility of loss in having built up that stock at the then Government's request.
Is it not true that this export represents 4 per cent. of the available stocks of timber in this country? It is known that a further offer was made of a similar quantity. It is also known that a further quantity, equal to the other offers, is also available. These are facts. The present prices of timber are fixed by a Maximum Control Order.
No.
That is correct. That Order was fixed last year. There has been a considerable drop in the world price of timber. The timber which was exported was bought at high cost with hard currency. If an advantage is to be given by selling our stocks at a reduced price, surely that advantage should be given to people in the Twenty-Six Counties and not to merchants in Belfast who are taking advantage of a loophole in their own import legislation. There is a difference of more than £50 a standard between the price which our builders pay and the price at which it was sold in Belfast.
With regard to any alteration in the Maximum Prices Order, the Prices Advisory Body tell me that they must have regard to what the timber actually cost the importers. If anyone can import timber at the lower price now prevailing there is no restriction on him to do so.
I put a supplementary question to the Minister when this matter was previously raised in the House. I asked him whether he was aware that the price at which that timber was exported was lower than the price at which local authorities are buying the same timber in this country. Does the Minister deny that the timber has been exported at £50 a standard less than the local authority can buy the same timber in this country? Why should our local authorities not get first preference in the matter of buying timber at the reduced price?
I have no information as to the terms on which the timber was sold. Deputy Larkin said that the price was less while Deputy Donnellan said it was higher than the price prevailing here. I did not inquire. In reply to a request from timber merchants who said that they imported stocks to an abnormal extent in response to a request to do so from the Government then in office, and who claimed that they were liable to lose money because they had complied with that request, I offered to help to relieve their situation if they could secure export possibilities. They have not been able to do so except to an insignificant degree in relation to the stocks available.
Does it not seem rather unusual that persons in Belfast can buy timber from us at £50 a standard lower than the price at which local authorities here can purchase timber?
That is the Deputy's information. I have no such information.
They can purchase it at £50 a standard less than the Dublin Corporation or any local authority in this country can purchase it. The Minister says that he has no information. He has the Prices Section of his Department and he also has the services of the Prices Advisory Body. Surely there should be no difficulty in getting his Department to ascertain the price at which this deal went through? In any case, the exporters themselves will tell him.
The Deputy will understand that a number of firms are involved. One firm might decide to sell the timber immediately at less than it cost them, while another firm might try to avoid a loss by not disposing of their stocks for a longer period of time. It is a matter for decision by each individual firm and not by any organisation.
But if cheap timber is going, surely our own local authorities ought to get first preference?
Would the Minister say, in view of his repetition of the statement that there are abnormal stocks of timber in the country and in view of the suggestion by Deputy Larkin that further offers are being made from outside for some of our timber, what steps he has taken to examine the situation and whether he proposes to allow an open door for the sending of further supplies of timber from this country?
So far as further exports are concerned, the number of applications for additional export licences are very few. There is no scarcity of timber anywhere. It is possible for any timber merchant to buy all the timber he wants and to import it into this country——
At a price?
At present the stocks represent a year's supply as against a normal three months' supply.
Will the Minister inquire if the timber exported to Belfast was sold at £83 per Petrograd standard and if there is a further offer for £80? Is there not a responsibility on his Department to see that timber bought at a higher price with hard currency is first made available to our own citizens at the reduced price?
The Deputy asks me to request the Prices Advisory Body to investigate the position regarding timber and also, whether on its recommendation or not, that I should make an Order fixing a maximum price for timber at less than the price which was paid for it.
No.
It is obvious that these timber merchants who are holding these stocks will incur a loss. It is for themselves to see how they can minimise it.
Why not allow the timber to be sold here at the reduced price rather than allow it to be exported at the reduced price?
I will not make the timber merchants incur a loss which will be a responsibility on the Government.