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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 29 Apr 1953

Vol. 138 No. 7

Committee on Finance. - Vóta 59—Comhar Eadarnáisiúnta.

Tairgim:—

Go ndeonfar suim nach mó ná £20,500 chun slánuithe na suime is gá chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfas chun bheith iníoctha i rith na blíana dar críoch an 31ú lá de Mhárta, 1954, chun ranníoc do Chomhairle na hEorpa agus don Eagras um Chomhar Eacnamaíochta san Eoraip agus i leith tionscadal áirithe Eagrais na Náisiúin Aontaithe agus chun costas eile ina dtaobh sin.

Is é méid iomlán an mheastacháin £39,800. Sin méadú £2,400 ar an suim a soláthraíodh anuraidh. Tá mioneolas san imleabhar clóbhuailte ar an méadú nó an laghdú faoi na fo-mhírchinn éagsúla.

An tsuim atá ag teastáil uainn le haghaidh an ranníoca chun an Eagrais um Chomhar Eacnamaíochta san Eoraip bunaíodh í ar an suim a caitheadh sa bhliain 1952/53. Tá sí cuid mhaith níos lú ná an tsuim a soláthraíodh anuraidh. Tá laghdú £1,500 sa tsoláthar le haghaidh costas taistil agus mion-chostas eile a bhaineas leis an Eagras. Tharla sin toisc nach gá do thoscairí ó Bhaile Átha Cliath bheith i láthair ag cruinnithe chomh minic agus ba ghá roimhe seo.

Tabharfar faoi deara nach bhfuil beartaithe againn aon ranníoc a dhéanamh i mbliana i leith Cláir Chúnaimh Theicniúil na Náisiún Aontaithe. Os a choinne sin, áfach, tá airgead á sholáthar i mbliana, den chéad uair riamh, le haghaidh ranníoca £10,000 chun Ciste Teagmhais Eadarnáisiúnta na Náisiún Aontaithe do Leanaí. Usáidtear an ciste sin chun airgead a sholáthar i gcóir cláir fadtéarma de scéimeanna sláinte leanaí sna háiteanna sin ar fud an domhain atá in iargcúl eacnamaíochta. Déantar an dea-obair sin i gcomhar le hEagras Sláinte an Domhain agus leis an Eagras Bídh agus Talmhaíochta. Seo a leanas cuid de na nithe atá ar láimh faoi láthair:—an eitinn agus an malaria a laghdú san Aifric agus san Áise, feithidí a dhíthiú agus bainne a chaomhaint cois na Mheán-mhara Thoir, ionaid sláinte do mháithreacha agus do leanaí agus gléasraí caomhainte bainne a chur ar fáil i dtíortha áirithe agus scéimeanna chun teagasc ar chothú leanaí a thabhairt i dtíortha in Aimeirice Theas. Ina dteannta sin tugann an Ciste cúnamh díreach i gcásanna éigeandála, mar shampla, chun leanaí teithimh a chothú.

Gheibheann an Ciste formhór an airgid trí ranníoca saorálacha ó rialtais. Sa bhliain 1952 cruinníodh beagnach $11,000,000. Gach tír a gheibheann cabhair ón gCiste bíonn uirthi earraí nó airgead a thabhairt atá comhionann ina luach leis an méid cabhrach a thugann an Ciste dí. Iocann Rialtas na Stát Aontaithe suim atá cóimhéid le trian na ranníoc go léir ó rialtais eile. Uime sin má thugann an rialtas ranníoc don Chiste tugtar cabhair do leanaí is fiú i bhfad níos mó ná an tsuim a ranníocadh.

Tá 61 tír tar éis ranníoc a dhéanamh ó bunaíodh an Ciste. B'fhacthas don Rialtas gur chóir dóibh ranníoc éigin a dhéanamh leis an gCiste sín de thoradh na n-achainí a rinneadh orainn. Tá beartaithe againn a shocrú go gcaithfear an t-airgead a ranníocfar ar cheannach earraí sa tír seo.

Maidir le Comhairle na hÉorpa ba é beartas na hÉireann riamh agus i gcónaí an méid dob fhéidir léi, do réir a hacmhainne, a dhéanamh chun síocháin agus comhar cairdeasa a chur in áirithe do náisiúin uile an domhain.Dá réir sin ghlacamar páirt ghníomhach in obair Chomhairle na hEorpa i rith na bliana atá faoi léirmheas. Sa Tionól Comhairlitheadh, a tháinig le chéile i mí Bealtaine agus i mí Meán Fómhair, 1952, agus arís ag cruinniú urghnáthach i mí Eanáir, 1953, bhi ionadaithe ó gach aon dream polaitíochta sa Dáil i láthair agus chuireadar in iúl an léargas a bhí ann againn ar na ceisteanna a bhí dá mbreithniú. Ar na coistí a chuir an Tionól ar bun, agus a dhéanann obair nach bhfaigheann an oiread poiblíochta agus a gheibheann Seisiúin an Tionóil féin, rinne ár n-ionadaithe obair fhónta chomh maith. Bhí cruinniú le déanaí i mBaile Átha Cliath ag ceann de na Fo-choistí, a cheap an Tionól chun cúrsaí taistil thar teoranta a phlé. Dála an scéil ní miste a rá gur mhol ionadaithe na hÉireann ag Strasbourg, tamall ó shoin, gur ceart coistí den tsórt sin a thabhairt le chéile ó am go ham i bpríomh-chathracha na Stát-chomhaltaí. Ar an gcuma sin tarraingeofaí umhail an phobail i dtíortha éagsúla ar obair na Comhairle.

I gCoiste na nAirí leanadh den obair ar roinnt nithe a beartaíodh chun comhoibriú praiticiúil na gComhaltaí lena chéile a thabhairt i gcrích. De thairbhe na hoibre sin tá comhaontuithe áirithe réidh lena síniú. Orthu sin tá comhaontuithe maidir le cúrsaí slándála sóisialaí, cúnamh sóisialach agus cúnamh liachta, comhionannas teastais chun daoíne a ligean isteach in Ollscoileanna agus simpliú na bhfoirmiúlachtaí a bhaineas le hiarratais ar phaitinní. I measc na nithe eile atá dá scrúdú ag saineolaithe faoi láthair tá Cóireáil Chomhionann do Náisiúnaigh Stát-chomhaltaí, Réiteach Síochánta Díospóidí, Eistríriú, Comhaontuithe Cultúra agus cúrsaí breise a bhaineann le Paitinní agus le Slándáil Shóisialach.

Daingníodh, thar ceann an Rialtais, an Coinbhinsiún chun Cearta an Duine agus Saoirsí Bunúsacha a Chaomhaint agus an Prótocol don Choinbhinsiún sin, ach go ndearnamar forcoimeádas amháin maidir le cabhair dlíthiúil in aísce. San am céanna rinneadh dearbhú ag aithint chumhachta an Choimisiúin um Chearta an Duine chun achainí a ghlacadh ó dhaoine aonair nó ó eagrais, nach eagraisrialtais, adeir gur sáraíodh ina leith na cearta atá leagtha amach sa Choinbhinsiún, agus dearbhú ag aithint dlínse éigeantach na Cúirte um Chearta an Duine. Go dtí seo tá ocht dtíortha tar éis an Coinbhinsiún a dhaingniú agus sé tíortha tar éis an Prótocol a dhaingniú. Is gá deich n-ionstraimí daingniúcháin a thaisceadh sa dá chás chun feidhm a thabhairt don Choinbhinsiún agus don Phrótocol. Níl dlínse na cúirte aitheanta fós ach ag Éire agus an Danmhairg, ach tá an cheist sin dá breithniú faoi láthair ag a lán Stát-chomhaltaí eile. Ní cuirfear an Chúirt ar bun go dtí go mbeidh an dearbhú is gá ina leith déanta ag ocht Stáit. Ba í Éire an dara tír—an tSualann an chéad cheann—a rinne dearbhú maidir leis an gCoimisiún. Tá an Danmhairg tar éis é a dhéanamh ó shin. Teastaíonn sé dearbhuithe den tsórt sin sara bhféadfaidh an Coimisiún achainí aonracha a ghlacadh. Cuireadh timpeall chun comhaltaí an Oireachtais Páipéar Bán, ina raibh téacs an Choinbhinsiúin, an Phrótocoil agus na nDearbhuithe.

Faid atá an Chomhairle ag leanúint dá cuid oibre ar cheisteanna a bhaineas le comhoibriú praiticiúil idir na Stát-Chomhaltaí tá cionn saothair, chun tíortha Iarthair na hEorpa a thabhairt le chéile níos dlúithe, á chur ar scáth ag rudaí atá ag tarlachtaint lasmuigh den Chomhairle. Is é atá i gceist agam, an ghluaíseacht i leith aontachta níos dlúithe fós, trí chomhaontais sainiúla, ina bhfuil páirt ag Rialtais na Beilge, na Fraince, na Gearmáine, na hIodáile, Luxembourg agus na hÍsiltíre. Níl ach comhaontas amháin den tsórt sin ar bun go fóill, is é sin an Comhaontas Eorpach um Ghual agus Cruach. I mí Bealtaine, 1952, shínigh na sé Stáit sin Conradh chun Comhaontas Eorpach um Chosaint a bhunú, ach níor daingníodh fós é. Le déanaí bhí Tionól ad hocann de pharlaiminteoirí ó na sé Stáit sin. Ligeadh parlaiminteoirí ó thíortha eile atá ar Chomhairle na hEorpa—ba cheann acu Éire—isteach mar bhreathnadóirí. Tharraing an Tionól sín suas dréachtreacht le haghaidh Comhaontas Polaitíochta Eorpach. Tá beartaithe an Comhaontas um Ghual agus Cruachagus an Comhaontas um Chosaint a chomhtháthú ansin. Tá an dréachtreacht sin dá scrúdú faoi láthair ag na sé Rialtais a luas, agus táthar ag súil go dtabharfaidh siad a dtuairimí air ag cruinniú a bheas acu an 12ú lá de Bhealtaine.

Tá staid Chomhairle na hEorpa, de thoisc na gcúrsaí sin, faoi bhreithniú agus scrúdófar arís é ag cruinniú de Choiste na nAirí an mhí seo chugainn. Ar dtúis moladh go bhféadfaidh Comhairle na hEorpa bheith ina bonnchreat do na comhaontais sainiúla sin go léir. Ach go dtí seo, de bharr an eolais atá faighte ar an gComhaontas um Ghual agus Cruach (agus níl ach comhbhaint an-bheag leis), dhealródh sé go mba leasc leis na comhluchtaí fornáisiúnta sin bheith faoi smacht ag eagras eadar-rialtais ar nós Comhairle na hEorpa.

Chun scéal gearr a dhéanamh de, is í aigne atá againne maidir le haon chomhcheangal a bheith ag an gComhairle leis na comhaontais sin—cé go gcaithfear gan breith chinnte a thabhairt ar an gceist go dtí go mbeidh na Coistí ar bun—go n-aontóimis le haon tsórt liaison a mbeadh na Státchomhaltaí eile sásta leis, ach nach lagódh an liaison sin in aon tslí comhaltas na Comhairle mar atá faoi láthair.

Tá an tEagras um Chomhar Eacnam aíochta san Eoraip go beo bríomhar agus tá Éire ag leanúint dá cion a dhéanamh ann go dúthrachtach. Bhí ceithre cruinnithe ag Comhairle na nAirí i rith na bliana 1952/53.

Níl aon bhaint ag an Eagras faoi láthair le roinnt na cabhrach ó na Stáit Aontaithe. B'shin cuid mhór den obair a bhí le déanamh aici sna blianta tosaigh. Anois is é is mó a bhíos ar a haire na fadhbanna móra, eacnamaíochta agus airgeadais, atá ag cur as do na Stát-Chomhaltaí, do na Stáit Aontaithe agus do Cheanada. I rith na bliana 1952/53, chuir an tEagras dhá fhoilseachán mhór-thábhachta ar fáil. Grúpa neamhspleách saineolaithe a rinne an chéad shaothar acu. Bhain sé le cobhsaíocht an airgeadais intíre i gcás Stát-chomhaltaí. Is fiú a thabhairt faoi deara go raibh na beartais airgeadais a glacadh i gCáinaisnéís natíre seo anuraidh ag freagairt go dlúth do na prionsabail a moladh sa tsaothar sin.

Ba é an dara saothar Ceathrú Tuarascáil Bhliantúil an Eagrais agus foilsíodh é i ndeireadh na bliana 1952/53 faoin teideal Europe—the Way Ahead.Sa Tuarascáil sin rinneadh miondealú cruinn beacht ar chúrsaí eacnamaíochta agus airgeadais sna Stát-Chomhaltaí, sna Stáit Aontaithe agus i gCeanada. Scrúdaíodh go cúramach na modhanna trína bhféadfadh na tíortha sin, dá n-oibrídís i dteannta a chéile, na deacrachtaí a shárú a thagann as barrachas mór a bheith i gcomhardú íocaíochtaí na Stát Aontaithe i gcónaí. Bhi misiún speisialta ón Eagras um Chomhar Eacnamaíochta i Washington le déanaí ag plé le húdaráis na Stáit Aontaithe i dtaobh na mbeartas a moltar sa Tuarascáil seo.

Is aidhm mhór ag an Eagras an trádáil a shaoradh. B'ainneoin gur casadh constaicí áirithe ar an Eagras tá dul ar aghaidh mór déanta aige chun an trádáil idir-Eorpach a shaoradh de tairbhe a Chlaír Iomscaoilte agus Aontais Iocaíochtaí na hEorpa. De thoradh Aontais Iocaíochtaí na hEorpa tá comh-mhalairtiú páirteach airgeadraí Eorpacha tugtha chun críche.

Tá an tEagras um Chomhar Eacnamaíochta san Eoraip tar éis a chruthú go soiléir chomh tábhachtach agus atá sé mar ghléas chun comhoibriú eacnamaíochta agus airgeadais a chur i gcion idir thíortha Eorpacha ar thaobh amháín, agus idir na tíortha sin agus na Stáit Aontaithe agus Ceanada ar an taobh eile.

Tugadh faoi deara nach raibh fiche Teachta i láthar; Cóimhríodh an Teach agus, ar fiche Teachta a bheith i láthair.

Tá rún ar an bpáipéar, fé Orduithe an Lae, im ammse, an Meastachán seo a chur thar n-ais chun é d'athbhreithniú agus tairgim an rún sin anois. Mhol an tAire an obair a rinneadh ar Chomhairle na hEorpa. Thagair sé don chlú a thuill na hionadaíthe a chuireamar ann ó am go ham. Tá súil againn go léir go leanfaidh an chlú sin a thuill an tír seo mar gheall ar an saothar a dhein na daoine a chuireamar go dtí nacruinnithe den Chomhairle. Nuair a bhí an príomh-Mheastachán á phlé chuireas ceist mar gheall ar ainmneacha na ndaoine a ceapadh le dul go dtí an chéad chruinniú eile. Tá orm tagairt níos fuide a dhéanamh anois don scéal sin.

Ar an 22ú Aibreán, do réir colún 400 d'Imleabhar 138, Uimh 4, de na Díospóireachta Parlaiminte, thug Rúnaí Parlaiminte an Taoisigh an fógra seo leanas don Dáil:

"Tá orm a chur in iúl don Dáil go bhfuiltear tar éis na daoine seo leanas a roghnú mar Thoscairí agus Ionadaithe ó Éirinn don Chúigiú Seisiún de Chomhthionól Comhairlitheach na hEorpa a thiocfas le chéile i Strasbourg an 7ú Bealtaine 1953.

Toscairí: An Teachta Gearóid Ó Beoláin, Aire Dlí agus Cirt; Séamas Mac an Chrosáin, iar-Sheanadóir; an Seanadóir Prionsias Ó Lachtnáin, agus an Teachta Liam de Nortún.

Ionadaithe: An Teachta Seán Ó Beirn; an Teachta Niall Bléine; an Teachta Peadar Ó Comhdhain, agus an Seanadóir Micheál B. Yeats."

Do lean sé i mBéarla an uair sin:

"I have to inform the Dáil that the following have been selected as representatives and substitutes from Ireland to the Fifth Session of the Consultative Assembly of the Council of Europe, which will meet at Strasbourg on the 7th May, 1953. The representatives chosen are: Deputy Gerald Boland, Minister for Justice; James Crosbie, a former Senator; Senator Frank Loughman, and Deputy William Norton. The substitutes are: Deputy John Beirne; Deputy Neil Blaney; Deputy Peadar Cowan, and Senator Michael B. Yeats."

As I have said, the Minister has praised the work done by our former representatives at Strasbourg. We are gratified at the work which they have been able to do. When this notice was given to the House I raised the question as to who was responsible for the nomination of Deputy Peadar Cowan to go to Strasbourg to represent Ireland there. I move this motion now simply for the purpose of getting clearon that point. I object to Deputy Peadar Cowan being sent abroad to represent this country in any way. He covers, with a mercurial coat and a particular type of viciousness, certain matters of policy that are of vital importance to this country. I cannot see his taking part in any discussions at Strasbourg without bringing discredit on this country by antagonising or insulting some of the countries that are on friendly relations with us here.

I asked on the 22nd April last who was responsible for the recommendation and the Taoiseach said: "The group". I asked: "What group?" and the Taoiseach replied: "The group to which the Deputy belongs". I asked who was responsible ultimately for the choice "as to who will represent Ireland at the Assembly", and the Taoiseach said: "The Dáil ultimately". I then asked: "By what action does the Dáil show how it nominates these persons", and there was no answer forthcoming to that. Later the Taoiseach said that he was nominated by the Independent group, and later again, on behalf of two Deputies at any rate in the Independent group, Deputy Alfred Byrne and Deputy Alderman Byrne, there was a repudiation that they, as Independents, had any responsibility for the nomination. The type of representative group that will represent us in Strasbourg consists of two representatives representing the Government side of this Assembly and two representatives representing the Opposition side. Three substitutes represent the Government side and one substitute represents the Opposition side.

As far as we here are concerned, we feel that it is vitally important that we shall know who is responsible for what may transpire to the discredit and the difficulties of our country as a result of Deputy Peadar Cowan being sent to represent us abroad at any kind of an international assembly, and I want to fix the Minister with the responsibility. I think the Minister cannot shed that responsibility. No matter what he may say with regard to anybody else in the House being responsible, he cannot shed that responsibility.

I would like to draw the attention of the House to a statement made on the 12th July, 1950, by the former Minister, Deputy MacBride, with regard to the representatives at Strasbourg. He said:

"I have no governmental responsibility for the acts and affairs of Irish delegates and substitute delegates, once appointed to the Assembly; they are independent and free to act as they choose. That is as it should be, as the Assembly is composed of parliamentary representatives rather than governmental representatives."

I do not regard Deputy Cowan as a proper person to send as a parliamentary representative from this country. However, it is the Minister's responsibility in asking the House to provide this money and it is his responsibility ultimately for deciding who is to be sent there. If the Minister wants to shed that responsibility, as the Taoiseach apparently wanted to shed it, and to pin it on certain persons in this country, I think it is important that we should know who those persons are.

The appointment has been repudiated by Deputy Alfred Byrne and by Deputy T. Byrne. The other persons in the house who could be brought into the group that the Taoiseach mentioned are Deputy Dr. Browne, Deputy ffrench-O'Carroll, Deputy Lehane, Deputy Cowan, Deputy Cogan, Deputy Sheldon and Deputy McQuillan. I submit, from what we know generally of Deputy Cowan's approach and his temperament, we should know who of these people are responsible for sending him there—if the Minister washes his hands of any responsibility. I do not think the Minister can do that, but I repudiate the appointment and I move the motion "That the Estimate be referred back for reconsideration" so that the matter will be fully and seriously considered.

Deputy Mulcahy is aware of the procedure which has been followed here in this Parliament in regard to the nomination of delegates and their substitutes to the Council of Europe right from the time it was setup in 1949. The procedure has been that the Government, or the Government Whip, consults other Parties in the House as to whom they would like to have representing them. In the time of the last Government there were two representatives from the then Government side of the House, there were two representatives from the Opposition side and there were four substitutes, three of whom came from the Government side and one from the Opposition. That is to say, the Government had two representatives and three substitutes and the Opposition had two representatives and one substitute.

We have followed that procedure since we became the Government. We offered to the Opposition groups two representatives and one substitute and we kept for ourselves and for certain of the Independent members two representative and three substitutes. We, being the single Party outside the Independents, kept for Fianna Fáil two representatives and two substitutes and we offered to the Independent group one substitute. The Independent group nominated Deputy Peadar Cowan. I take full responsibility for the negotiations and for having brought the nominations to the Taoiseach and from the Taoiseach to the House. It is like every other act of Government, if the Dáil wants to repudiate any other act here they can do so but can do it only by motion.

Deputy Cowan and all the other delegates and substitutes when they get to Strasbourg will represent themselves as members of this Parliament or members of Parties associated with this Parliament. The delegate, Mr. Crosbie, is not now a member of the Seanad but he has been nominated by the Fine Gael Party to represent them and we accepted him and he is one of the delegates which the Taoiseach nominated here the other day. Of course, the last Government did not take any responsibility—they were not asked to take any responsibility and had no right to take any responsibility —for anything that I did as a substitute at Strasbourg or anything that Deputy de Valera or Deputy MacEntee, who were then delegates, did in Strasbourg.I take it that the same situation exists to-day. I do not feel the slightest bit responsible for whatever Mr. Crosbie or any of the other Fine Gael people do, or for what Deputy Norton may do. I feel that the team going out will express their own ideas on the matters that come before the council and I have no doubt that they will express them honestly.

My experience has been that it is natural in this House—in order to get matters properly discussed, some would say—that we should exaggerate the differences that exist between us. One of the reasons why debates on external affairs sometimes get into a rather personal sphere is that there are in fact very few differences between us and they are differences only of personality. I feel that the team going out to Strasbourg will, on this occasion, as on the last occasion, consult with one another and will act in a manner that will bring credit to the country.

The Minister has indicated that he accepts no responsibility for the nomination of Deputy Cowan but says he was nominated by a group. Can the Minister tell us who are the members of that group and by whom the recommendation was conveyed to him?

The group was the group that was indicated by Deputy Mulcahy himself, the group of Independents who have from time to time supported the Government. The Deputy is wrong in saying that I do not take responsibility for it. I take the responsibility as a member of the Government. It happened to be my special bailiwick to get in touch with the Chief Whip to ask him to consult the Parties and to get the nominations. I take full responsibility for that. I take full responsibility for the nomination to the Dáil of Deputy Peadar Cowan and the other seven representatives and substitutes.

I am not yet clear. Do I understand now from the Minister that he says that the nomination of Deputy Peadar Cowan is recommended by Deputies Browne, ffrench-O'Carroll,Lehane, Cogan, Sheldon and McQuillan?

I say that the Chief Whip consulted that group about the appointment.

Can the Minister say by whom the information was conveyed to him, by which of the group?

By the Chief Whip, Deputy Donnchadh Ó Briain.

Who, on behalf of the group, conveyed the information to Deputy Donnchadh Ó Briain?

The person who normally acts as Whip for them. That is all I know.

Question—"That the Estimate be referred back for reconsideration"— put and declared lost.
Estimate put and agreed to.
Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
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