On the motion for the Adjournment Deputy Crotty has given notice that he wishes to raise the subject matter of Question No. 18 which appeared on to-day's Order Paper.
Adjournment Debate—Appointment of sub-Postmaster.
This afternoon I asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs whether he would state if he had yet sanctioned an appointment to the position of sub-postmaster in Gowran, County Kilkenny, and, if so, what was the name and what were the qualifications of the new appointee.
The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs answered the first part of the question all right. He stated that a Mr. James Lennon had been appointed and added:—
"It is not the practice to furnish information regarding the claims or qualifications of candidates for sub-postmasterships or other similar appointments."
I often heard the Minister replying before when he would give reams, but apparently there is something behind this question which the Minister does not want to give away. I further asked the Minister whether he would state how many applications he had for this position. He said he had not that information. If he made the appointment, I am sure the Minister had the information. He must have had it. I hope he has it now. I also asked theMinister when the inspection of the premises took place and he said he had not that information. I hope he has it to-night.
This post office was taken over by the postmaster in September, 1952, and the position was not filled until last month. I wonder what was the reason for that? Was there a desire on the part of the local Fianna Fáil cumann as to who should get it and not who the Minister should choose? Was that the reason for the long delay? Is it a fact that one part of the branch wanted one person appointed to the sub-postmastership while another section of the same branch wanted another applicant appointed? I cannot tell which. There are rumours in Kilkenny, and especially in Gowran, that that was the reason for the long hold up in regard to this appointment. The Minister eventually appointed this Mr. James Lennon, although there were several applicants. In fact, there was an application from a Miss D. Carmody who since the post office was taken by the postmaster had acted there as charge-hand. That lady applied to be appointed. She had the use of the post office. Her application was not accepted. There was another application from Miss E. Carroll, who was also a post office assistant. There was a further application from a Miss M. Carroll. She was also a post office assistant. All three had actual experience of post office work. None of the three was accepted.
Mr. Michael Dwyer, a businessman with a large family, applied. He received no word and was not appointed. A Mr. Walsh, living in the very heart of the village—he is a very good businessman, too—applied but his application was not accepted. There was also an application from a Mr. Byrne and some others. At the time the premises were inspected, I understand that the present appointee had no premises at all in Gowran. In actual fact at that particular time he was a lodger in Gowran and how his premises could have been inspected under his name I do not know. The premises he has now taken over were inspected because the person who owned them at that time had applied. They wereinspected in that person's name. That person was turned down and they are giving the post to Mr. James Lennon.
I have no personal animosity towards Mr. Lennon. I think he is a very decent industrious man. In fact, so industrious is he that at the present time he is a beet loading agent. He has two lorries for beet drawing and other haulage and he has ten acres of beet. I understand that he has about twice as many acres of corn. He is a single man and is unmarried. He is now going to conduct the business of this post office. He has the supreme qualification which everyone now needs if he wishes to become a sub-postmaster. He is secretary of the local Fianna Fáil cumann. That is the supreme qualification which is required at the present time. One must be the secretary, the treasurer or a member of the local club. If the secretary or the treasurer does not get a job some private member of the local Fianna Fáil club will. The day is gone when anybody in this country can hope to get a post office on merit. I did not intercede with the Minister in regard to any particular applicant in this case and I did not raise this matter until last week. I wanted to see what would happen.
Here is a man appointed who had no premises whatever at the time of the appointment. He was residing in Gowran at that particular time and, as I have said, he is a beet loading agent and has two lorries. He is a very busy man. Is it fair that the Minister should burden this man with further duties in addition to the duties he has as secretary of the local Fianna Fáil cumann? The whole thing is shady. The people feel it is shady. It looks like sheer political jobbery to say the least of it.
The house which has been accepted as a post office is at the very extreme end of the village and if an old age pensioner or anybody else has occasion to call for old age pensions or widows' and orphans' benefits he has to travel the whole length of the village and up the hill to this house. There were applications from several people in the village whose houses were verycentrally situated and who were in a position to give guarantees regarding their probity in connection with financial matters. The application of none of these people was accepted. It looks as if there is no hope for an ordinary man in this country of being appointed to a position on merit.
My reason for bringing up this matter to-night is to ventilate the grievances of these people. The Taoiseach spoke a lot about justice but I think this is the greatest injustice that has been done in this country for quite a long time. I do not know how the Minister can dare stand over that injustice.
Whom was the injustice done to?
To the people who are applying for this appointment.
You could not appoint six.
I do not know whether Deputy Cowan had any say in this appointment or not. I hope anyway that the Minister will have some information for us to-night. To-day, apparently, he was sheltering behind the statement that he had not information about the number of applicants or about an inspection of premises. I hope that he will have full information on these points for us to-night. I feel that a big injustice has been done to the people of Gowran, whatever Deputy Cowan may think. As the representative of that constituency, I am only doing my duty in bringing this case forward so as to have it ventilated in the interests of the public good. I know that I cannot do anything now to have the appointment changed. I hope that in future, if it is possible, that this system will be changed. If the Minister is going to stand over this kind of political jobbery he should resign his position and not be a party to it. The Taoiseach should ask him to resign and not be a party to political jobbery in the country.
On a number of previous occasions we had trouble over appointments such as this, andI understood that a committee was appointed in the Department to deal with these matters. It looks very strange that seemingly the only qualification which this gentleman has was that he was secretary of the local Fianna Fáil club. The person who held the post previously was dismissed last September and applicants' premises were inspected last February.
At that time, this man had nothing whatever to do with the village of Gowran. He lived outside of it. His connection was with agriculture as a beet loading agent for the factory in Carlow. He also held some conacre which he worked himself, but he had no connection whatever with the village of Gowran. Now, he is appointed to this post. He got possession of the premises that he now holds, where the post office is being installed, only within the last week or two. Normally, I understand that appointments of this kind are made about two months after the previous occupant of the post is dismissed, but it has taken practically nine months to make this appointment. It is very apparent that the whole thing is a set up to hand it over to the secretary of the Fianna Fáil club.
The position in the district is that this appointment has caused grave dissatisfaction. It looks as if it is a complete case of jobbery, and that the Minister has just handed over this appointment to one of his own because he has the political qualifications. If that is to continue it is going to create a very serious situation in the country —that is, if appointments like this are not going to be given on merit, and on merit alone. That will have a very bad effect on the people who are very sore about the present set-up.
Listening to the Deputies on the opposite side of the House, I must say that I have been rather amused at their Simon Pure attitude and towards what they call jobbery in this case. So far as I know, when they had the opportunity in regard to jobbery, well there were just no limits. That is all I can say aboutthat, and everybody knows it. However, the Deputies are on the wrong track in this particular case. There were 13 candidates for this postmastership and there were no unusual circumstances in regard to the facts known to the postmaster at Kilkenny. He presented the list of candidates with their various qualifications and there was no intervention on my part, or on the part of any person in the community before he made his report. The postmaster in Kilkenny presented the facts in detail regarding the candidates as well as the premises which they were going to offer. He presented the facts to us on the 14th March with all the circumstances that were known to him. There was no change in the circumstances, either in regard to the candidates or to the premises, either at a date subsequent to that or at any time and there was no interference in any way.
It so happened that a great many rumours were circulated in Gowran with regard to this appointment, but the Deputies opposite should take more care before they try to blacken my reputation solely, I believe, for the sake of their political advantage. There are, I am glad to say, a great many villages and towns in Ireland where postmasters are appointed without intrigues and without the strange rumours, most of them lies, which are circulated.
In Gowran there were a great many rumours circulated. In the case of Gowran, I am sorry to say I was sent a petition, allegedly signed by nearly all the candidates withdrawing their applications. The petition was supposed to be signed at a bogus meeting. If it had not been for the intelligence of the present postmaster at Kilkenny certain people might have been done a grave wrong because of that. I just mention that to illustrate the kind of rumours that are circulated on these occasions.
It so happens that the Deputies have made another mistake in regard to the political circumstances attending this case. I am sorry that Deputy Crotty did not take greater care to ascertain the facts, because it so happens in this case that there was anyamount of political cross-fire. It was of a rather amusing kind, but I am not going to go into details.
Because the Minister has not got any.
They did not affect me.
Is the Minister saying I had any hand, act or part in that?
I did not say that the Deputy had anything to do with that, but I did say that, as a matter of fact, they did not affect me. I was saying that there was any amount of political cros-fire.
From Fianna Fáil?
No. From one side and the other. That is what the Deputies do not like to hear. I do want to tell the Deputies that they are wrong in this case because I had people in one political camp recommending people in the opposite political camp, including recommendations for the person whohas been chosen as sub-postmaster. I do want to say that the Deputies opposite have been deluded by all the rumours that were circulated. The person appointed will, I believe, do credit to the post office service in Kilkenny.
As regards all the appointments I have made since June, 1951, I do not think that I have received one single complaint either in regard to bad service or to discourtesy. No single complaint has reached me at any time and I suppose I must have appointed during that period at least 100 sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses. So far as their political convictions are concerned there is nothing that the Deputies opposite need worry themselves about because there is no evidence whatever that I have exceeded in any way my political authority in this matter.
That is no answer.
The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, the 9th July, 1953.