It is proposed to take business as on the Order Paper, No. 8 (Votes 6, 1 to 22, 23 to 68, 22 and the Supplementary Estimate to 22, 60, 61, 62, 3 and 14). I understand it has been agreed that the discussion on the Estimates and the Appropriation Bill will be completed to-day, and that token Estimates will be introduced for the Departments in respect of which the Estimates have not been completed. Therefore the discussion on the main Estimates will be interrupted, say at 9.30, at which stage the further business will be completed, which will include the motions on the Order Paper for reduced sums, the Appropriation Bill and the introduction of the token Estimates. It is proposed that public business be not interrupted to take Private Deputies' business. The time which would otherwise be devoted to Private Deputies' business will be made available on Tuesday next.
Order of Business.
May I take it that token Estimates will be set down for the Department of Social Welfare and the Department of the Taoiseach?
They will be introduced this evening.
And will be taken next week?
To-morrow, perhaps. I understand the desire was that the discussion on the Estimates would continue; so, unless there is some change, the discussion on the Estimates will continue to-morrow.
Not necessarily? Our concern in the matter was to get an opportunity of discussing these matters.
There is no special reason why they should be discussed to-morrow, unless that is desired. It would perhaps be more convenient to put them down for next week.
It would suit us to put them down for next week, if it suits the Government.
When are we going todeal with the motion on Vote 22, and how?
All the Finance Estimates are under discussion at the moment.
No, that was not said last night.
Except universities.
If the discussion on the main finance group concludes to-day, then the Universities Estimate will be taken. If not, we will have to arrange with the Deputy to get his motion to refer back taken separately, when the discussion on the Estimates is resumed.
I understood that the acting-Minister for Finance announced yesterday to the House that he would arrange for a separate discussion on Vote 22 and that it would be taken separately. Could it be taken at 9 o'clock?
It could be taken at 8.30 o'clock if the rest of the Finance Estimates are completed.
Let us be a bit clear on this. Lest there should be an implication in what has been said here by way of exchange of conversation across the House, it is not agreed that the discussion on the Department of Finance Estimate will necessarily conclude to-day.
I understand that. If it is not concluded, there will be a token Estimate for that Department also.
The discussion on the Estimates will proceed in the normal way. That normal discussion of the Estimates will finish at 9.30 to-night and then you go on to the Appropriation Bill.
If the Finance Estimate is not concluded by then, a token Vote for the Department of Finance will be introduced, so that the discussion may continue. In that case, we will have to consider how to get Deputy Lehane in separately. There might bea token Vote for the Supplementary Estimate.
There is no difficulty about that. There might be other of the smaller Estimates for which token Votes would be desired also.
Yes.
The question remains then as regards the business to-morrow, if the Estimates discussion is not being continued. Secondly, the Tánaiste said he would give some kind of idea to-day, without being necessarily tied to it, as to the programme.
So far as I am concerned, the intention is to go on with the Estimates to-morrow, except for the Report and Final Stages of the Courts of Justice Bill and perhaps a couple of other Bills to provide business for the Seanad when it meets next week. The main business before the Dáil for the time being will be the Estimates.
For the rest of the session, so far as it is possible to state it now, it is the intention that the following business will be disposed of: the Financial Estimates, including the token Estimates; the Rates on Agricultural Land (Relief) Bill, all stages; the Fourth and Final Stages of the Courts of Justice Bill, which we hope to deal with to-morrow; the Imposition of Duties Bill; the Rent Restrictions Bill; the Second Reading only of the Factories Bill; the Consular Conventions Bill; the Report and Final Stages of the State Guarantees Bill; the Intestates' Estate Bill. As regards the National Development Fund Bill, it may be sufficient to have a Supplementary Estimate rather than enact that Bill before the conclusion of the session. Then there is the Vocational Education Bill and the motion by the Minister for Social Welfare regarding the joint committee for workmen's compensation. There may be a couple of Supplementary Estimates.
This all in two weeks?
I said nothing about two weeks.
Perhaps the Tánaiste would complete the programme for us as far as he can. What is the proposal with regard to adjournment?
I could not say that yet. That list looks more formidable than it really is.
I wonder.
There are only one or two of those Bills which are controversial and likely to absorb much of the Dáil time.
Is it the intention that all stages of the Rent Restrictions Bill should be taken?
Yes.
After all this lapse of time—two and a half years—where is the urgency of the Intestates' Estates Bill?
There is no urgency, but I understood there was general agreement that the Bill would be passed.
Is the Tánaiste trying to make the list bulky?
The Intestates' Estates Bill was put down to satisfy the Opposition.
We are waiting two and a half years for it.
I would ask the Tánaiste to consider the position of drift that has occurred during this year and last year in dealing with the business, due to the fact that the Estimates for the year were not dealt with before the summer vacation. I feel that valuable parliamentary time is being wasted by the procedure which is at present being adopted. Nobody is taking any interest in the Estimates at all——
What is the general matter now?
I am dealing with the present Estimates.
The general order of business.
I will put it this way. An Tánaiste is now proposing to conclude in a general way the finance business and to deal with token Votes on Account. I suggest that that will again disrupt the whole business of the Dáil. I object to it. I think it is an objectionable practice. I should like to see the legislation carried out at the time it should be carried out.
The difficulty of the House in this matter arises by reason of the fact that the Government will insist upon bringing forward its legislation in the spring, at a time when it interferes with the financial business of the House. The Government will not show their hand in regard to legislation until we get the Book of Estimates, and then all the big matters come in on top of it. Legislation is thrown in on top of the Estimates.
When do the Minister for Justice and the Minister for Local Government propose to carry out their undertakings to weigh the subject matter of the two Private Bills standing in my name and which are adjourned, pending their decision?
I hope in the next session.
Immediately after Christmas?
Deputy Cowan's point is correct. It is an unsatisfactory position for the House to be discussing Estimates for this financial year so late in the financial year. It is desirable that that work should be disposed of before the summer recess. I do not think that the difficulty this year was as a result of legislation being introduced before the summer recess.
What about the Health Bill, for example?
Mr. O'Higgins
And the introduction of a Vote of Confidence?
Up to what date in December is it proposed to sit?
I should not like to indicate a date now. Perhaps this time next week I will venture to prophesy.
Between the 4th and the 11th?
Possibly.
Am I correct in thinking that the position in regard to the two Private Bills to which I have already referred is that they will be taken between Christmas and next Easter?
I hope so.
I desire to give notice that I wish to raise on the Adjournment to-night the subject matter of Question No. 7 on yesterday's Order Paper.