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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 18 May 1955

Vol. 150 No. 12

Committee on Finance. - Financial Resolution No. 5—General (Resumed).

When the debate was interrupted, I was referring to the increase in taxation which was found to be unavoidable when the then Government were framing the Budget for the year 1952-53. I pointed out that, due to the fact that we had inherited a continuing deficit of almost £7,000,000 from the Coalition Government which went out of office in June, 1951, and the additional commitments in relation to expanded social services and the need to maintain all the other public services at the level left by the Coalition, a sum of £98,000,000 had to be provided by the Exchequer. Now, I am leaving out of the question in that context the self-balancing items of the Road Fund on the one hand and the motor vehicle duties on the other hand. As against this £98,000,000, we had an anticipated revenue from the then existing tax structure of £83,000,000. Nobody who can do a simple sum in subtraction can deny that in these circumstances an increase in tax rates was inevitable. Accordingly, because the then Fianna Fáil Government did not shirk their responsibilities in these matters, did not shirk their duty to the country, we hoped to provide, by increasing the rates in taxation, the sums which were necessary to close the gap after we had made certain economies in the public services. The taxation at the new rates, that is, the increase in the tax rates for which we took responsibility, brought in an additional revenue of £10,346,000 in 1952-53. This additional revenue, together with certain economies and other savings, reduced the actual deficit from £15,000,000 to around £2,000,000.

I want again to refer to the fact that in 1952-53 the new tax rates gave us an increase of £10,346,000 over the tax revenue collected in 1951-52—over the revenue left to us by the Coalition Government. I want to refer to it again and to stress it for the reason that, this year, these 1952 rates of taxation will give the Coalition Minister for Finance £18,300,000 more than I got from the Coalition Budget of 1951. We collected £10,346,000 in 1952 from an increase in taxation. From that same increase in taxation, this year the Coalition Minister for Finance proposes to collect £18,300,000. What does that mean to the taxpayer? It means simply that the Coalition propose to collect £8,000,000 more in taxation than was done in the 1952 Budget.

I must again hark back a bit. According to column 1442 of Volume 131 of the Official Report, the present Taoiseach, when he was over on this side of the House as Leader of the Opposition, declared in the debate on the 1952 Budget that he would resign rather than proceed with any single provision of that Budget. To-day, the Taoiseach, who was going to resign in 1952 because I was taking £10,000,000 more from the Irish taxpayer, is himself about to take £18,000,000 more from the Irish taxpayer. In other words, he is taking 80 per cent. more than the 1952 increase I was able to obtain. But I gather he does not intend to resign. Instead of resigning, it is quite clear he intends to brazen it out.

So also does the Minister for Education who, in May, 1952—the reference is column 1439 of Volume 131 of the Official Report—assured the country that Deputy Costello, now Taoiseach, would remove £10,000,000 in ten minutes if, instead of being Leader of the Opposition, he were Head of the Government. Soon after Deputy Mulcahy, as he then was, made that speech, they were referring to him down in County Tipperary as "million-a-minute Mulcahy". I do not know what they are calling him now because now the million-a-minute Minister for Education has the temerity to ask his followers to believe that the present Budget has halted the rising trend in taxation.

I shall now interrupt my speech for a news flash. I have here a report of a speech made by the Minister for Lands at a Clann na Talmhan meeting. The report appeared in this morning's newspapers. The Minister for Lands, according to the report, has also asked his followers to be gratified because, he says, the Budget was a vast relief. The Minister for Lands said it was a vast relief to many to learn that no new taxes were imposed by the Budget. The Parties who were telling the country in 1952 that if they were in office they would reduce taxation by £10,000,000, the Parties who, on the eve of the election, told the people who were likely to vote for them that if they were in office they would reduce taxation by many millions without effort, are now offering to their disappointed followers a crumb of consolation that there has been no increase in taxation in this Budget.

As I have said, the Minister for Education has had the temerity to ask his followers to believe that the present Budget is halting the rising trend in taxation. But what is the record of actual fact? Far from the Coalition having prevented an increase in taxation, all they have done is to prevent a reduction in taxation. That is all they are responsible for. The money which, if we were in office, would have come back this year to the taxpayers has not come back. It is not that the Coalition Government have prevented an increase in taxation. They have not prevented an increase in expenditure which is the first step towards reducing taxation. Last year, Fianna Fáil were able to reduce taxation substantially and, as I have said, we would have done much better this year. The very fact that the 1952 increases in taxation did yield £18,000,000 more than the 1951 rates, shows it would have been possible to have an even greater reduction in taxation this year than last year on one condition—provided expenditure had been kept within bounds. That, of course, is the essential thing if taxation were to be reduced.

Let me say at once that I do not want to decry the achievement of the Minister for Finance this year. At least, he has given us a balanced Budget and that is better than the situation we had to face from the heritage left behind by the last Coalition Government. Provided expenditure had been kept within bounds, £3,000,000 could have been returned to the taxpayer in this year's Budget; in fact, the amount might easily have been as high as £5,000,000. I believe that a substantial reduction in taxation is the country's most urgent need. But the country has not been given what it wants. The people have been denied the reliefs which they so urgently required. They have been denied them simply because the members of the Government who pledged themselves to the electors to reduce taxation have not kept their pledges. That is the only reason why the taxpayers of this country have not £3,000,000 in their pockets this year to spend as they themselves want to spend it.

While we know and believe this, we also know what the imperfections in this Budget are. I do not think we are entitled to judge the Minister for Finance too harshly on this Budget for this reason. Unless responsible Deputies on both sides of this House are prepared to stand fast on the principle that our economy is overburdened by the existing public expenditure, no Minister for Finance, I do not care to what Party he may belong, can reduce taxation and, at the same time, balance his Budget. That is the merit, the sole merit of this Budget, and it is a poor thing from the point of view of the people looking for remissions in taxes, of those looking to have a cheaper pint, a cheaper glass, a cheaper smoke or a cheaper gallon of petrol. This Budget has the merit that it is a balanced Budget and that is why I say we should not deal too harshly with the Minister. Let us make up our minds that we cannot have increased public expenditure, reduced taxation and financial stability on the basis of our present volume of production. It is necessary that all elements concerned in the administration of the country should grasp that fact and act on it. Indeed I think it is most essential.

There are grave grounds for apprehending that, in the very near future, we shall have to face very unfavourable export conditions indeed. On the authority of the Minister for Agriculture, this House has been told that it would appear, except in respect of one commodity, that our farmers have been priced out of the export markets in recent months. We cannot maintain our present standard of living, or anything like it, unless we have an export trade which is expanding in volume and value. How can we fulfil that condition, how can we compete in overseas markets—whether the British market or any other market-if we compel our already overburdened producers to carry a heavier load of public expenditure and if we withhold from them the reliefs to which they are entitled? That, I think, is the question which every responsible Deputy, no matter to what Party he belongs, and every responsible voter in the country, too, must ask himself—not only ask it but answer it and act on the answer.

The people want a reduction in taxation. The condition of our economy demands a reduction in taxation. It is the duty of those Deputies whose votes control and determine the Government to give them that reduction, provided, again, that they put a curb on public expenditure. That is the essential condition, because we do not want any more McGuilligan Budgets in this country. Our economy was sinking under them, that series of Budgets which was introduced from 1948 to 1951, with a recurring deficit every year, and wherever a deficit was not shown, wherever a deficit was concealed, it was concealed because obligations which had matured were not met as they matured and were left to those who succeeded Mr. McGilligan to liquidate and pay for.

Is that the Fuel Bill?

A number of other things. Deputy, try to listen. You are here as a responsible man. You may disagree with me if you like. Get up and say it. Get up and say that you do not believe that the crying need of our people is a reduction in taxation. Get up and say that you want higher taxation. Do not interrupt me when I am trying to make a speech which at least will be in the public interest. I am not thinking of my constituency. I am not thinking about what somebody will go around and say about me. I am not thinking about what Deputy Dunne will say about me. But you are and therefore, allow me at least to try to serve my country here in this House without unmannerly interruptions.

I was saying, Sir, that the McGilligan Budgets were responsible for the 1952 Budget. I do not believe that if tomorrow the Minister were to go out of office—I do not hanker after his job or that of any other Minister or any other person on this side of the House does not hanker after his job-at least, we would not find the situation much worse than we left it to him. We might have improved it a great deal but then we would have freer hands. We would be able to pursue a consistent coherent policy, a policy which would be formulated in accordance with our own ideas of what was best for the country. We would not have to kow-tow to this or that other element. We would have been able, because we are a united and coherent Party to have a united and coherent financial policy. That is the great benefit, that is the great public advantage, which flows from single-Party Government and which is denied, and has always been denied, in every country, to Coalition Governments.

It is no use voting for reduced taxes and demanding increased expenditure at the same time. If we do that, we are only mocking the common sense of our people. If we want to reduce taxation then we must definitely decide to limit expenditure.

The 1952 taxes, let me repeat, were imposed to meet a financial and economic situation which was wellnigh desperate. Huge commitments had been undertaken by our predecessors with regard to public remuneration, with regard to social services and subsidies, for all of which the necessary revenue was not available. Our external assets were melting away at an alarming rate. A deficit of over £30,000,000 in our balance of payments in the year 1950 had been followed by another of more than double that figure in 1951. In three years our available external resources had shrunk by over £100,000,000.

This is a small country. It has been alleged that we had at one time a surplus of external assets over external liabilities of about £400,000,000. In three years we had frittered away— because that is what it amounted to when you come to look on how this money was spent—we had frittered away 25 per cent. of our external resources, the things upon which we depend in a very large measure for financing our trade, for some of the income which we derive, the things which the last Minister for Finance in the Coalition Government referred to as our economic mass of manæuvre, the resources upon which we would have to rely in a last emergency. We were frittering these things away at the rate of £100,000,000 in three years.

This was the situation which the 1952 Budget was intended to deal with and we have proof from the financial statement which the Minister has presented to the Dáil this year that it has succeeded in doing that. We have had a Budget which would have balanced last year, as I introduced it. We have reduced the balance of payments problem to manageable proportions. We are bringing back and reinvesting now, I believe productively, in our own country some of these external assets but we are not wasting them. If that is the situation to-day it is largely due, as the Attorney-General himself had to admit, to the 1952 Budget. That Budget was designed, and I quite frankly admit it, to make income and expenditure balance and it was also designed to ensure that our external assets would not be wasted.

I do not think that the present Minister for Finance will take deliberate steps so to inflate our economy that we shall be back to the parlous position in which we were in 1951. I do not think that he wishes to have a deficit on our balance of payments of the order of £62,000,000 a year. I think that he will continue to do as he did when he opened his Budget, to take some consolation from the fact that the deficit in our balance of payments, instead of being of the order of £62,000,000, is only one-twelfth of that, of the order of about £5,000,000, I think he said, if my recollection does not mislead me.

The point I want to make again is that the 1952 Budget was designed to meet an emergency. It was never intended that the 1952 increases in taxation would be a permanent part of our tax structure. The unfortunate thing about it is, and the real defect in this Budget to my mind is, that it is tending—it may not do it—I do not know what the Minister may be able to do next year—but this Budget as it has been presented to the Dáil, in the circumstances in which it has been presented, having regard to the inflation of expenditure which has taken place, is tending to make the 1952 taxes part of our permanent tax structure, part of the normal basis of taxation, part of the norm by which all future Budgets will be judged.

As I have said, that should not be the case because the 1952 taxes were imposed to meet a grave emergency and once that situation had been resolved, as it has been resolved, finally, in 1954, it was firmly intended by those who were responsible for putting on those increases to reduce them.

The emergency has passed. The Budget has been balanced. The balance of payments is under control and the Minister for Finance has £8,000,000 more at his disposal than I had in 1952. Surely, the taxpayers from whom this £8,000,000 is to be taken have more right to it than any other section of the community. Surely, the people who have contributed that £8,000,000, the people who have earned it, the people from whose earnings it has been taken, have a juster claim on it than anyone else. I am going to stand for that principle anyhow. It may not have been possible for the Minister for Finance to give the whole £8,000,000 back to the taxpayers in this Budget.

Eight million pounds? You were talking about £3,000,000 a minute ago.

I said £8,000,000 at the beginning of 1953, and I am saying it may not have been possible for the Minister to give the whole of that £8,000,000. In fact, no person in his senses reasonably could expect that the Minister would have been able to give back the whole £8,000,000. But he could have remitted almost half of it certainly, if he had stood firm on the policy upon which he was elected, on the policy upon which the people voted and on which the number of votes secured by Fine Gael had been considerably increased over the 1951 poll.

If he had stood firm on that policy, then he would have been able to give back certainly £3,000,000 of it. I do not know which of the 1952 taxes the Minister would have reduced. If he had only dug in his heels and said: "No increase in public expenditure"; if the Attorney-General, as spokesman for Fine Gael, who said he could reduce expenditure by many millions of pounds, had dug in his heels and said: "I will not stand for that" or "I am going to get out", then he would have something to give to the people. It would naturally be a matter for his own judgment as to how he would distribute it. However, one of the Minister's lieutenants, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Government, has told us what he would have done. He has told us: "In the general good the greatest boon the Minister for Finance could confer was a reduction in income-tax." When the Parliamentary Secretary, Mr. O'Donovan as he was then, forsook the Civil Service to join Fine Gael——

The Parliamentary Secretary did not say that the other day.

——the political stargazers of that organisation told us that a new sun had shown itself in the economic firmament. "Here," they told us, "is an economic luminary who will beam brightly on our nation and show Governments the path they should tread." Later, when Mr. O'Donovan—I refer to him as Mr. O'Donovan because I want to distinguish his position in time—received his appointment as Parliamentary Secretary to the Government, the word went around to the Fine Gael supporters in his constituency, which happens also to be mine, that the Parliamentary Secretary to the Government was to be the grey eminence behind the new Minister for Finance, the keeper of the Minister's conscience, a person who would see that justice was done to the taxpaper and, more directly, that justice was done to those who are subject to direct taxation.

The Parliamentary Secretary has left us in no doubt as to what he would have done if he had been Minister for Finance. He told the Minister for Finance, as he has told us all, that: "In the general good the greatest boon the Minister for Finance could confer was the reduction of income-tax by 6d. in the £." But the Minister for Finance has turned a deaf ear to the Parliamentary Secretary and has given no significant relief to the taxpayers of the country in this Budget. Who has been responsible for that? That is what everybody is asking now. Many attempts have been made to extenuate the Minister's failure, the failure of the Coalition, to reduce taxation. But what we are asking now is: who is responsible for compelling the Minister to go back on the pledges which his Party gave at the last general election? That is what we all want to know. I shall not try to answer that question. I cannot answer it. It might have been the Labour Party. It might have been Clann na Talmhan. It might even have been Deputy MacBride. One does not know because Deputy MacBride has peculiar ideas as to how the public finances should be managed. Perhaps it is he who has been responsible for denying to the taxpayers the reliefs they are entitled to get.

Or was it Mr. Butler?

The Deputy ought to be ashamed of himself—if he thinks that any Deputy in this House who served in the Irish Government from 1932 until 1947, who saw the Economic War, who gave this country the Constitution under which we are proud to live, who kept this country at peace when, in the rest of the world, war was raging, who stood up against the demands not only of British Ministers but the representatives of other Powers to prevent this country from being occupied—to come along and insinuate that I, or any other person, who was a member of the Fianna Fáil Government, who did all that and kept you at peace, would take any dictation from a British Minister.

What we did realise was that our country was in a parlous condition as theirs was. We both happened to be in the same boat. The British Minister became Chancellor of the Exchequer late in 1951 and I became Minister for Finance early in 1951. We both had inherited the same type of problem and we had to follow a Government of spendthrifts. We found accumulated debts which we had to meet, that we were bankrupt almost in the face of the world. Therefore, we said to each other: "We intend to pursue a realistic policy in this country." I took no dictation from any Minister, Mr. Butler or anybody else, in my life. Accordingly, I am not going to take that vile insinuation from any Deputy in this House, particularly a stranger. a person whom I do not know ever served in this country one day.

He did not miss the train at Mallow railway station.

You never missed anything. I do not think you were even in the Army.

He was a little Blueshirt.

I am sorry: I should not address the Parliamentary Secretary in that personal way.

And the Deputy should not address me in that way or on the lines on which he did. I did serve my country on two occasions.

If so, I retract. If the Deputy served his country as I served it——

Did you not serve it by accident?

These interruptions must cease.

Let me say this— and I do not say it in any justification for myself—I can say what few Deputies can say, that I was sentenced to death and my sentence was commuted to penal servitude for life. I have two medals, a Black and Tan medal and an Easter Week medal, and I served during the Black and Tan war from beginning to end——

By accident.

——and I never had one day's broken service.

So did Deputy Manley and he does not talk about it.

Only for me and men like me, old men like me, you would not be sitting here to-day.

There are a few on this side.

Yes, there are. I am sorry and I would like through the Chair to apologise to Deputy Manley for the things I have said about him in the heat of the moment, but mind you, do not let Deputy Manley ever say to me that I ever took dictation from the British Government.

I am sorry, but I made no remark.

I meant Deputy Barry.

Well, I apologise through you, Sir, to Deputy Barry; if I have in any way maligned him, it was not my intention. I feel and I resent the sort of thing said to me by the O'Higgins brothers, by the Minister for Health and Deputy Michael O'Higgins. I resent them very much. They have no right to say that about me and they know it well. Let there be an end to it. I had an unpleasant job, I had to come back and face the Irish people on the 1952 Budget. I carried it through—and any man who was able to do that does not have to bow the knee to any British Minister.

Now, Sir, let us get away from that. It is not really relevant to what we have been discussing, namely, the state of the country. I have been trying to put it to the people on both sides of the House who believe in the future of the country, and particularly those who made sacrifices and who served it, that it is time we stopped putting public office and election to this House up to auction. We want to get to the state here which they have in other countries, where the public finances will be regarded as the concern of everybody and where it will be realised that unless you have sound public finance, unless you have stable financial and economic conditions in the country, unless you try to make the people's money worth-while, you can build nothing, there will be no future and there can be no progress. That is what I am standing for and that is what I have stood for all during my life.

Deputy MacEntee on several occasions mentioned the Minister for Justice where I think he meant the Minister for Health. Possibly it could be corrected.

That will be done.

The Minister for Finance has introduced a Budget which will meet with the approval of most people in the country. The Governments of other countries have problems akin to ours, as the ever-recurring problem of any Government is to find enough money to enable them to carry on, to build up their economic position and to improve the social status of the people. The Minister has done a good job. In his Budget statement he announced the granting of benefits amounting to over £4,000,000 and at the same time he found it possible to refrain from increasing the rate of taxation.

In particular, I want to express my appreciation of the reliefs granted in respect of small breweries. As we know, in recent years those breweries have found it very difficult to prosper and to make reasonable profits. They have had to contend with and to compete against larger breweries, to their disadvantage. I hope that, as a result of these reliefs, the industries carried on by those concerns will expand and give more employment. In Dundalk, we have two such breweries and I know that both the employers and employees there are grateful to the Minister for what he has done.

Some people will express disappointment that the Minister did not make any reference to the claims of industry with regard to depreciation and wear and tear of machinery. It is obvious that if industry is to prosper still further, even if it is to hold its present position, it must have protection and it must receive incentives to expand. One practical way of helping the industrial drive is to grant tax reliefs whenever possible. Irish industrialists in particular may be disappointed with this Budget, but I think there is a gleam of hope in the fact that there is at present a committee examining the whole question of industrial taxation and it will probably make some recommendation to the Minister, which I am sure he will accept, as I know he is fully aware of the importance of this matter.

Reference has been made to impending legislation with regard to a voluntary health scheme. That is very commendable and I hope that when it is in operation it will be conducted on sound and effective principles. I am sure it will be a success and no doubt it will entice many people to avail of the services offered, when they consider that tax reliefs will be given in respect of the premiums paid under such a health scheme. People who avail themselves of the proposed service will make themselves more independent of the State—and that is a step in the right direction.

There is one burden that rests very heavily on many people at the present time, that relating to rents and rates. This burden seems to be increasing with the years. Rent payers and ratepayers alike—especially rate-payers—find it very difficult at times to make ends meet, especially when they have to contend with the added bill of income-tax. Rates can be described as another form of tax and I am sure that, as soon as the State finances permit, the Minister will do something to alleviate the position of those people.

Whilst acknowledging in general the importance of the reliefs granted in respect of the allowances for children— those reliefs will have a very beneficial effect on families—I think there is much discontent throughout the country with the present system of collecting income-tax. I would ask the Minister to consider seriously the possibility of introducing the system of P.A.Y.E. into this country. That system is at present operating in Great Britain with great success. We read often in the daily papers of suggestions made with regard to this system. I myself have been approached on many occasions and I have been told that if the system of P.A.Y.E. were introduced it would relieve many of the hardships inflicted on income-tax payers by the present system whereby they have to pay considerable sums of money in a short space of time. If the contributions could be spread over the 52 weeks of the year, especially where it concerns people in employment the whole year round, the effect on the housholder's weekly budget would not be so great. I hope the Minister will consider this matter, as it is very important and as it is a source of much displeasure throughout the country.

A lot of talk has developed during this debate about promises made and promises broken. To my mind, the one specific promise that was made and the one promise that stood out on its own during the last election related to the Government's intention to do all it possibly could to better the economic position and to make our people more content. This Government has done all it can to merit the confidence of the people which it received in May of last year and it has succeeded in doing so, as can be gauged from the level of prosperity and contentment in the country to-day. To my mind, the action of the Minister in raising pensions, which will benefit more than 161,000 old age pensioners, more than 6,000 blind pensioners and over 28,000 widows, his action in giving tax reliefs which will benefit the small breweries I have referred to and relief to farmers and married men with families, his action in preventing the prices of tea and butter from rising, which incidentally will benefit everyone in the country, his action in preventing the bank rate from rising and, in addition, his action in preventing the rate of taxation from rising—all these actions will be welcomed by the vast majority of the people.

This debate has gone on for quite some time, but it is well to have put on record again the type of Budget this is and how it is viewed in the country. I think the Budget statement can go on the records as a document of broken promises, because the Budget statement of the Minister is an admission by the Government of broken promises. There is no doubt whatever that were it not for the lavish promises made 15 months ago by the groups which form and keep the Government in power, were it not for the extravagant statements, the dishonest statements—statements which were well known to be be dishonest by many of those who made them—that Government would not be sitting over there to-day. They deceived the people and they set out on a deliberate campaign to deceive the people in the last general election. The Taoiseach and every Minister sitting on that front bench, irrespective of the group to which he belongs, did make the promises that have been referred to from this side of the House.

The Taoiseach came here the other day and denied that he ever made a promise. I happened to be in Enniscorthy on almost the eve of the election and Mr. Costello, as he then was, was concluding a long tour which he made of the country. It was in the week during which the election would be held and I heard him say that, if he was given responsibility for heading a Government, he guaranteed to the people of that town that he would reduce taxation by at least £10,000,000 within a very short time of taking office.

I can get hundreds of people who listened to him make that statement. The local papers did not record that; they did not even take his speech, because the election was being held that week and would be over by the time they came out, but I definitely heard him say it. He spoke for three-quarters of an hour on that occasion and made promise after promise to the people of that constituency to reduce taxation, to give the people cheaper food and cheaper clothing.

Whenever his principal statements appeared in the daily papers they were prepared statements, but the Taoiseach was not reported at all the meetings he spoke at, and at very few of the meetings at which Ministers or back benchers—Fine Gael, Labour or any of the other groups—spoke were they reported; but in every household they canvassed they left a blue leaflet showing the existing prices of bread, tea, sugar, butter, the existing level of motor taxation and so on, and compared these with what they were in 1951. What were those leaflets issued for? Was it not to influence the electorate, to get their minds thinking that, if they had a change of Government, they would have cheaper food and a lower cost of living?

Many of the unthinking people of the country had faith up to that time in the spoken word of the leaders of political groups, but I wonder what many of these people must be thinking to-day after reading and having had explained to them the financial policy of the Minister for Finance for the coming 12 months. It is in the Budget statement each year that Governments have been wont to indicate what their fiscal, financial and economic policy for the coming 12 months is to be. In each and every year since the State was established, the Minister for Finance leads off and sets out in his statement what Government policy is to be. Will any Minister or any Deputy on the back benches opposite have the hardihood to say that the statement read to the House two weeks ago is an indication to the people that they will have lower taxation and a cheaper cost of living in any single respect?

Has the loaf gone down? Has tea gone down? Has sugar gone down? Has tobacco gone down? Has the pint been reduced? Has any one of these lavish promises been carried into effect, with the exception of the promise with regard to butter, which was reduced by 5d. a lb. and which costs in a full year about £2,250,000? In no other instance, has the cost of living been brought down. It has even increased since this Government took office. They may have no control over it in certain directions. That is quite a possibility, if it is a matter of the cost of goods which we must bring in here—they have no control over that—but there are other internal aspects of the cost of living over which they have control.

I suppose that the actions of all the Ministers which affect the cost of living in any way can be discussed on this Resolution and I want to assert that the action of the Minister for Industry and Commerce in fixing prices for bacon, which was in full supply last August or September and of which there was a big surplus for export, has had the effect of increasing the price of bacon to the consumer, without any compensating advantage whatever to the producer. The producer of bacon in this country is getting from £1 to 30/- a cwt. less to-day than he was getting 12 months ago when bacon was 4d. a lb. less than it is to-day. We must assume that the bacon factories and the retailers of bacon at that time were getting fair profits, because they were not grousing. That one action of the Government has increased the cost of living to the ordinary consumers with no advantage—rather with a disadvantage—to the producers of bacon.

The Government decided to reduce the price of wheat. Last year they carried on a deliberate campaign against wheat growing in this country, and even went so far as to say that it was a tragedy that so much wheat was grown. That campaign had one object— to give the Government an opportunity, when the time came, to slash the price of wheat. It was slashed to the extent of 12/6 a barrel. The reason for that action was supposed to be the existence of racketeers in wheat production. The wheat that was grown on conacre was supposed to be grown by racketeers. It was grown by neighbours of Deputies, small farmers' sons, working-men's sons, and people like them, who took a few acres on conacre, and grew about 2 per cent. of the wheat.

I am afraid that might be more relevant to the Estimate of the Department of Agriculture.

It was Government policy to slash the price of wheat. There is no doubt about that. The Government took credit for that in this Budget. The Minister took credit for a saving of over £1,500,000, in the whole year, in the present Budget, and he took that at the expense of the farmers, the vulnerable section of the community, the primary producers who, with the exception of wheat, and possibly to a certain extent, milk, have no control whatever over the prices they get, or over the cost of production. Because they were vulnerable in that respect, the Minister for Finance in the present Government, attacked them, and reduced the price of wheat in the present year. The Government need not be one bit proud of their achievement. The result was that they succeeded admirably in reducing the acreage of wheat grown in this country. I do not know whether they can be proud of that achievement or not, or whether it can go on record as one of the great achievements of the present Government. Every day of the week we hear Ministers and Deputies on all sides of the House appealing to the farmers for greater production. It was a nice way the Government indicated to them how they should produce more.

One particular tax which was imposed by a former Minister for Finance —I think it was Deputy MacEntee or Deputy Aiken—was remitted. I refer to the tax on proprietors of certain dance halls. There was a furore about it, and it was talked about more than anything else. It was stated that the Government had given £500,000 to their friends, the dance-hall proprietors. Probably that did lead to many people voting against Fianna Fáil in the last election. I have no doubt that it did. It was hard to explain why to the ordinary rank and file of the people. It was explained in this House, but Deputies did not want to listen to it; they would not accept an explanation.

The 1952 Budget has been mentioned very often by Deputies on the opposite benches. The House was told it was a Budget that put a blister on the country. They were certain that it was ruining the country, and that all the ills which came since, flowed from that Budget. It is extraordinary that not one single tax imposed by the 1952 Budget has been remitted. Deputy MacEntee pointed out that he tried to get £10,000,000 extra on the 1952 Budget brought into the Exchequer that year, but this year it is bringing to the Exchequer over £18,000,000 extra. Why did the Minister not remit that £8,000,000, get it back to the taxpayers, reduce the cost of living and ease the burden? Can any Minister answer that? We have to justify the 1952 Budget. It is like the man and woman going to the altar. Johnny said to her: "We are both one now." She replied: "Yes, but I am the one."

We on this side of the House stood behind the taxation imposed in the 1952 Budget, and we can be proud of that fact. We can also be proud that it was Deputy MacEntee and Deputy de Valera who led the Government at that time. We can be proud of their leadership in 1952, when this country was on the verge of bankruptcy, after being taken over from a Coalition Government. Because of their leadership they saved this country. It took about two and a half or three years for Fianna Fáil to drive that self-same policy into the slow, dull brains of the Coalition Ministers, and to bring them to realise that the 1952 Budget was sound and that it saved this country from bankruptcy.

Bad business for the Party.

If Fianna Fáil were composed of ten or 100 Deputies, they would always do what is right and just in the interests of the country, irrespective of the consequences. Fianna Fáil will do the right thing in the future, irrespective of how unpopular their policy may be, and irrespective of their political fortunes. They have always done that. Fianna Fáil is still, by far, the largest Party because more people have confidence in it than in any other single group. Since the formation of this Parliament, no other group ever received the same number of votes as Fianna Fáil received, even in the last general election.

Would the Deputy come back to the subject of the debate.

I was talking about money very much, but I was led by my friend over there.

The Deputy should not be led.

The Deputy drew me, and advised me that what we did in the 1952 Budget was unpopular. As a result of that, I was just indicating that what we did we are quite proud of, and we would do the same thing again, in the same set of circumstances. I am sure that, whether Fianna Fáil are here or on the other side of the House, they will do the unpopular thing, if the best interests of the country demand such an action. They will abide by the consequences, and by the misrepresentation, slander and abuse. There is a great difference between the task of the present Minister for Finance, and that of Deputy MacEntee when he was Minister because, when Deputy MacEntee took office, he did so with a deficit Budget, which amounted to £7,000,000. The last Budget which Deputy McGilligan introduced——

A deficit made by Deputy MacEntee to the extent of £3,000,000.

I move to report progress.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
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