We have to try, all of us, to see that the language is preserved in those areas. If we can preserve it there, we can extend it to the adjoining areas where there is still some tradition in the speaking of the language. If we are to maintain these areas as Irish-speaking areas, we must keep the people there—and the people will not be there unless a means of living is provided for them. Therefore, we have to address ourselves to two things—first of all, to provide a living for the people which will maintain them in those areas; and, secondly, to see that whilst they are there they will be given every encouragement to continue speaking the language.
There are two aspects of it. If we could solve the economic aspect, I think we would be able to manage the other. The difficulties from the economic standpoint are tremendous. From the point of view of resources, they are probably the poorest areas in the country. In the past, the people there were able to support themselves by fishing, in the main, and they had little plots of land on which they grew food and in some of the areas they migrated and came back. Apparently that is changing now. Consequently, we have the position in which we are compelled to depend on the restoration of the fisheries and the utilisation of the land to the best advantage to which it can be used. Now, that means a survey of these areas. At one time I tried to get an idea as to the possible contour, the actual boundaries of these areas. I tried to get—I am sorry to say I did not get it satisfactorily—an idea as to the resources in each one of these areas.
The office of Parliamentary Secretary to the Government was created with the idea that the holder of that office would have access directly to the Government so that all the Departments of State which were in any way involved with the Gaeltacht could be contacted at the Government level. The areas over which he was to operate were of two kinds. There were, first of all, the non-Irish speaking areas, which, as some Deputy has already said this morning, are much wider in extent than the Gaeltacht areas proper. He had to deal with these areas. Generally, these congested areas had more resources and it was easier, therefore, to bring productive enterprises to these areas than it was to the Gaeltacht proper. Consequently, I urged upon him that he should divide his section into two parts, one exclusively concerned with the Irish speaking Gaeltacht areas and the other concerned with those outside.
During the last general election we were led to believe that it was the intention of this Government, if returned to office, to set up a special Ministry to deal with this problem. I, for one, did not at any time say I was in favour of that because I believed that the other was a better method: in the past there was somebody definitely responsible to the Government as a whole for work in that area. I do not know who is responsible now. Is the present Minister accepting responsibility for this task, or is he not? Is it the Parliamentary Secretary who has been appointed to the Government who is responsible? I do not know. But we would like to have that responsibility fixed so that when questions crop up in relation to the Gaeltacht we will know where responsibility lies. I must admit I am more interested in the Gaeltacht proper than in the so-called congested areas and we want to know who is responsible just as we want to know what arrangements are being made to do what Deputy S. Collins talked about this morning, namely, to integrate or co-ordinate effort in these particular areas. These areas are limited in extent and I believe that the best way to bring about that essential integration and co-ordination is by having either a Minister or a Parliamentary Secretary with a special section dealing with that area so that that special section will be able to get in touch with the various Government Departments and ensure that everything that these Departments can do in order to develop the resources of that area will be done.
If I were in charge and had full power I would have such a section. I would have a representative of that section, a Government agent, responsible to the Parliamentary Secretary, in each of these seven areas. I would have that agent assisted by a local committee so that the needs of each particular area could be properly represented to him and he, in turn, understanding them, could report to the Parliamentary Secretary. If, after survey, the area showed any promise of providing employment through the medium of afforestation, then the Forestry Branch could be contacted and steps to acquire the necessary land could be taken in order to establish a forestry unit in that particular area.
When talking about forestry and afforestation, we must always remember a matter that was raised here to-day; it was mentioned in passing. If afforestation is to be properly carried out one must provide continuous employment for the people engaged in forestry. If there is an area of 600 acres one cannot plant all that 600 acres at once because, if one does that, there is first a feast and later a famine. There will be employment while the planting is taking place and there will be nothing, or very little, until the thinning begins. If the work is done systematically and only a certain portion is planted every year, by the time the whole 600 acres are planted the thinnings will be coming in to keep the people employed in that work fully occupied. In that way one will provide continuous employment.
Now, in so far as afforestation is concerned there is the primary question of acquiring the land. I agree that what are described as legal difficulties should not be allowed to stand in the way. We can always deal with these, and deal with them justly, here in this House. The nation's interest as a whole is involved in this matter and if it is necessary to take land which is not being utilised in the way in which it ought to be utilised for the common good steps should be taken to acquire it, always with the proviso, of course, that proper compensation is paid to those who are entitled to it.
If there is one place in which one would be entitled to acquire land compulsorily it is in the Gaeltacht area provided one is in a position to utilise that land in such a way as to render it more valuable to the nation and to the community in the area as against the way it is being used prior to acquisition. In my opinion one would be perfectly justified in legally compulsorily acquiring such land, paying full compensation to the owner, because it is not being used by him in the best interests of the particular community in the area or of the country as a whole.
I agree with those who say we ought not to allow legal difficulties, such as questions of title, to stand in the way. If money is involved the money can be put in trust for those who can prove title; difficulties of that sort in case of necessity ought not to be allowed to stand in the way.
I come now to fisheries. Deputy Bartley has said that a basis has been laid for the development of our fisheries which promises success. During the days of the old Sinn Féin movement I always believed that the fishing industry should be the second most important industry in the country because we are, after all, an island race. When we got into office I tried to find out what could be done. Unfortunately there were difficulties which I had not appreciated in the days when we were advocating that the resources of the country as a whole should be developed, and that one of our more important resources was the possibility of developing the fishing industry. Deputy Bartley has dealt with this problem and he has assured us that a plan has been drawn up which will enable our fisheries to be developed. We can hope, therefore, that there will be in our fisheries a source of potential employment for our people in the future, a source which has not been available to them in the past.
There is then the question of bogs and the utilisation of these bogs for the generating of electricity. That is being done at the present time. Let that process be developed to its fullest extent. Consider then the available land. There is arable land in these areas. What is the best use that can be made of that arable land? That is a question upon which I am not in a position to offer any sound opinion. Undoubtedly, the idea of using glass to get the necessary energy for growth was a good idea in the growing of tomatoes. If it is thought that tomatoes could be grown and if the use of glass could make up for the poor quality of the soil, then that should be done.
On the question of industries, Deputy Collins was, of course, right. If we can get industries subsidiary to fishing, if we can get industries for which the sea would provide us with raw materials, undoubtedly anything that could be done in that direction would be helpful and we should try to have the position surveyed and see what can be done. Mere talk of integration and all the rest of it is not sufficient; we must get down to the problem and see what can be developed. I do not know what the subsidiaries are; I know we used to have kelp and carrageen and industries like that. It may be possible to develop seaweed industries, but all these industries are of the type that would help to keep our people in the Gaeltacht areas.
Are there any other industries which we can bring there? Can we bring any large-scale industries to these areas? From the time we got into office, wherever I was able to press I did press that we should do our best to get the larger industries, not in the neighbourhood of Dublin but elsewhere, but the trouble is that if we are to have private industries privately controlled, those who wish to establish the industry will claim that they have the right to say where it should be. If you protect these industries you may be able to put pressure on them to go elsewhere, but you cannot put pressure on them to go to a place if they are convinced that it would be an uneconomic site for them.
There was a time when there were certain attractions in rural areas for industries, when the labour costs were not uniform throughout the country, when there were different rates for country areas and for the city, but that day is gone and therefore the attractions of cheaper labour or more availability of labour in the country fail to bring private enterprise to these areas. Therefore, we have to depend for the most part on some State enterprises if we wish to have any large-scale industries established in these areas. Unless we are to be faced with constant subsidy for these industries we must try to have industries that are economic. The trouble then—apart from developing the natural resources that are in these areas—to get large-scale manufacturing industries has been very great.
Anything that the Government can do here to develop forestry, develop the utilisation of the bogs in these areas for electric power, to develop fisheries, anything that could be done in that way to provide a permanent living for the people will, of course, be supported by us. We believe it is in the national interest, apart from any other consideration, that these things should be done. We had hoped that the Government, which has had a considerable time now to review the matter, and if it was their intention, as they indicated in their election speeches, to do so, we hoped that by now at any rate some indication would have been given of the organisation and the plans which that organisation was to execute. As I say, with regard to the material resources which provide a way of living for the people, I do not know to what extent these will be sufficient to maintain the existing population in these areas or to attract them to remain there.
This question of emigration hits the Gaeltacht and the nation through the Gaeltacht more severely than it hits it in any other quarter. When in office we were being accused all the time of permitting emigration to continue. I am not going to go into emigration as such at the moment because I do not want to introduce any directly controversial matters in my speech here to-day if I can avoid it. I am anxious that we should all come together to co-operate and get some system or plan, as indicated by Deputy Collins, by which the Gaeltacht can be preserved. Deputy Mac Pharthaláin spoke of certain things that would give immediate employment—roads, boat-slips and quays and so on. These, of course, should also be done.
The one thing that worries those who are interested in the Gaeltacht because the Gaeltacht has the language is that developments very often if they are not carefully supervised may mean an improvement in the economic conditions but at the same time the ending of the speaking of the language. Tourism, for instance, is doubted by some; they wonder whether it would not have the effect, if you have tourist roads in these areas and bring people into these areas, while you are providing a livelihood for the people there you are also introducing the speaking of English to an extent far greater than in the past.
We must have a care in that particular matter. If industries are established, if you have factories established and the management is in the hands of people who speak only English, the example of those at the top percolates down, and you will find you will get a situation in which you have introduced a focus for the spreading of English in the area. It is for that reason that I for one would be anxious to see a Government agent in these areas and that it should be the definite policy of the Government that when any industries or factories are being started or any work being done in the Gaeltacht that those who are in charge of the work should themselves be able to speak the language. It may be difficult to get a combination of the required technical knowledge and at the same time a knowledge of the language. Sometimes no matter how hard one tries one cannot get the combination required.
There are two things that can be done in that case, it seems to me. One is, if you get a person who knows the language who can be trained, you can get them trained. If you cannot do that, if you must get the work under way and if you cannot afford the time, the next best thing is to have understudies, so to speak, to the person who is immediately in charge, and see that there would be an immediate assistant who ultimately would replace the person in charge and who would be the means of transmitting to the various employees the orders and directions and so on of the person who is actually in charge of the work.
I know it is not easy to do things in that way, but we have a desperate case and it may be necessary to use measures that under other circumstances would not be satisfactory in order to deal with it. The person on the spot, the Government agent, would be able to report to the secretary what was happening. He would be able to say: "Very well, here is the thing that ought to be done", and bring it to the attention of the Minister or the Parliamentary Secretary to the Government who is in charge, so that there would be co-ordination. If, for instance, it should happen that there are Guards in the area who do not speak Irish and who are continually speaking English, that should be reported to the Minister for Justice so that he might be able to deal with the case through the commissioner.