Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Mar 1956

Vol. 155 No. 1

Committee on Finance. - Vote 50—Industry and Commerce.

I move:—

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £10 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1956, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, including certain services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain subsidies and sundry Grants-in-Aid.

The House may remember that early last year when speaking on the Vote for my Department for the current financial year, I mentioned that I had had discussions with the Industrial Development Authority on the question of visiting countries abroad with the object of interesting foreign industrialists in establishing industries in this country. As a result of these discussions, two members of the Industrial Development Authority visited Sweden in March last and were received most cordially. The results of that visit were so encouraging that I arranged that similar visits would be made to Western Germany, Belgium, the United States and possibly to some other countries.

A further visit was made to Sweden in October last by a member of the authority, and in November visits were made by two members of the authority and my economic adviser to Germany and Belgium. Discussions took place with 40 concerns in Sweden, 30 in Germany and 18 in Belgium. These figures do not include discussions with banks, local chambers of commerce, Government Departments and the like. I have been advised that out of these contacts a number of proposals have emerged that show reasonable prospects. The Industrial Development Authority are now pursuing the various proposals and it is hoped that, as in the case of Sweden, where two definite schemes have reached an advanced stage, further progress in the industrial development of our country will result.

I have now arranged that, following my recent visit to the United States where, in industrial circles, I found a lively interest in this country, a delegation similar to that which visited Germany and Belgium will visit the United States for three weeks or so. I have every hope from the reception I received and the interest that was shown in my mission to that country that the outcome of the delegation's visit will be fruitful.

The expenditure involved by these visits and by the publication of attractive brochures setting out the advantages Ireland has to offer foreign industrialists was not anticipated when the original Estimate was being framed. It is necessary for me, therefore, to seek the Dáil's approval of an estimated additional expenditure of £5,000 on sub-head P (1), to cover the cost of travelling and incidental expenditure of the members of the Industrial Development Authority, including the cost of publication and distribution of the brochure; £5,000 on sub-head P (2) to meet the cost of additional staff assigned to the authority, and £2,000 on sub-head P (3) to meet the extra travelling and incidental expenses of the staff assisting the authority in their various missions abroad. As, however, the total additional expenditure of £12,000 can be met out of savings on other sub-heads of the Vote, I am asking for a token Supplementary Vote of £10 to enable the saving to be utilised to defray the extra expenditure involved.

It would be possible to have a very prolonged discussion on the question of the work of the Industrial Development Authority but, while we, on this side of the House, are quite prepared to sanction a vote for money for the Industrial Development Authority in a general way, bearing in mind the need for more industries and growth in our exports, I think it should be stated that in the course of the last few months the Minister has, by his various declarations, given the people the idea that he looks forward to foreign capital investment as a major contribution to further industrial effort here. From that standpoint, I think we can only adopt a highly critical attitude.

In our view, the whole economic climate has changed since 1947 in a very fundamental way. The loss by the British people of their foreign investments, the adoption of a full employment policy and the collaboration between the English and American nations in capital development projects abroad has resulted in a demand for labour in Great Britain which, in turn, along with other influences, has stimulated emigration to a point where, I think, we have to alter our attitude towards the whole problem of industrial development here. As the Minister knows, our external trade is now vital to our existence to an even greater extent than heretofore; and the Minister is aware that, when a native industry starts, or any kind of industry, unless there is a very considerable labour content in that industry, the effect on the balance of payments, on our general trade position and our capacity to maintain our standard of living may be absolutely negligible. The Minister has, no doubt, been given information by his officials that the position in that regard has changed very considerably and that, while it is an excellent thing to provide employment, if the effect of any new industrial endeavour, taking it by and large, is that people are unable to buy the necessary imports which they require and if it does not increase their purchasing power abroad, then, however desirable such a project may be, it may not in the long run afford the worker the security which he or she needs for his or her future livelihood. In other words, the very employment given may tend to create a new problem which would be to the disadvantage of the workers concerned.

We feel that the Government as a whole have not studied with sufficient care or emphasis all the possible measures that could be devised for stimulating home investment, home industries, or encouraging the business community here to seek foreign technical aid, foreign know-how, foreign techniques and to apply those to the manufacture of articles or commodities which, under our present circumstances, should relate to a considerable degree to exports.

That leads, in turn, to the whole problem of the low investment rate in this country. As the Minister knows, the rate of investment has decreased considerably since 1953. The rate of saving has decreased in real terms and we have lost since 1948 some £186,000,000 of our foreign savings, the vast proportion of which should have been invested in home industries and home agriculture. The Minister's colleagues, the Minister for Finance and the Taoiseach, themselves have been given very definite warnings about the present financial state of the country, about the adverse balance of payments and the fact that many of the apparently good characteristics of our economy at the moment are themselves of a purely fugitive character.

There is not sufficient home capital investment and any Government in office will have to face the difficulties that have arisen and which partly relate to the British economic scene and partly to the fact that we have never yet, on either side of the House, persuaded the private interests in this country to devote a sufficient proportion of their savings to new industries. With the exception of the Finance Bill associated with the new mining project, in which some definite incentive was offered to those who would take part in certain types of mining projects of a very limited character, nothing substantial has been done since 1954 to stimulate home investment.

There are a great number of these problems related to taxation for enterprises in their first and subsequent initial years of operation and in relation to depreciation allowance and taxation on profits of new export industries. There are all sorts of propositions which the Minister could consider in this regard. Although we welcome any effort made to improve industry here, we hope the Minister is considering, for example, ways and means of providing still further technical information for would-be industrialists who would like to export and whether, for example, the resources of Córas Tráchtála, Teoranta, are sufficient to enable that work to be done.

The Minister will find that there is universal agreement on a great deal of these matters. Our difficulty is to find a consistent attitude as among the various members of the present Government as to any courageous positive policies. He will find there is, for the first time since 1947, an admission by both the present Government and the Opposition as to the serious economic position of the country, and a universally accepted warning has been given that there must be an expansion of our exports. As the Minister will find out from O.E.E.C., the investment of private resources here is less than that of most European countries as a percentage of national production or as a percentage of our national resources. We wish to emphasise that everything must be done to persuade all the business interests here concerned that there must be an all-out effort at increased production and an all-out effort at exporting commodities for which we can find markets.

Related to that there must be an all-out effort at improved management by the investigation of management methods to bring down the home price of our commodities so as to encourage, in turn, greater exports. The Minister could do a great deal of good if he would stimulate by every means the greater efficiency of our existing industries so as to enable them to find foreign markets. We would be very glad to see a small supplementary sum made available for that purpose in this Estimate. The necessity of making home industries more efficient and doing everything to stimulate exports would seem to have at least as great an importance as the attraction of foreign capital to this country.

The Deputy is inclined to widen the debate.

I am trying to confine my remarks to pointing out that we are aware of the good work that is being done by the Industrial Development Authority, and that we take a reserved, but interested, attitude in the seeking of foreign capital abroad. We would like to press upon the Minister, however, the desirability of stimulating investment here and of enabling Irishmen who are in association with foreign interests or otherwise to stimulate production. Apart from that, I might mention that a number of the Minister's speeches have been reported in newspapers here from sources abroad and I think it is quite possible that the country as a whole has had a wrong impression on occasions of the extent to which the Minister has, in fact, been encouraging foreign companies here. Although the Minister has at various times corrected certain impressions he has received, I think the time has come when the Minister should make a more succinct and detailed statement as to the type of foreign interest which he would like to come here, that he should indicate more specifically the type of products which he would like them to manufacture, the type of products which he would consider they should largely export, the type of products which he considers foreign interests could be permitted to manufacture largely for home consumption, and the extent to which he will at least insist that there should be an Irish shareholding in particular concerns or the association of Irish directors, of Irish capital interests.

From reading some of the Minister's speeches — I want to be quite fair to the Minister; it may be due to the way he was reported to some extent — the country has got the impression that the invitation is very widespread. In view of the fact that in connection with capital investments from abroad, exported interests and profits on them are of no benefit to us in our efforts to pay for imports, in view of the fact that certain types of capital investments here are likely to be of a fugitive character and that it is unlikely that anyone would invest money here with a patriotic motive so far as this country is concerned, we think it is opportune for the Minister at some convenient moment to restate in a very definite way the principles upon which his campaign is based.

We fully recognise that, with certain types of manufacture, he may have to go beyond what has been the custom up to now, namely, a combination of Irish and foreign enterprise, a combination of Irish and foreign capital, in some cases a wholly foreign enterprise. We realise that, in seeking to expand our industries, changes have been necessary. In fact, the former Minister for Industry and Commerce himself in speaking some years ago, agreed that the technique of Government assistance would obviously have to alter. At the same time, we should like the Minister to state for the benefit of the House, as specifically as he can, the principles he has adopted in this matter and the limitations in regard to the types of the product and the extent to which there can be no participation of Irish capital or of Irish interest.

I want briefly to say that the people, particularly the business people, do feel that the departure that this Vote signifies is the kind of activity that is very welcome and that should be productive of very satisfactory results.

Deputy Childers' rather pious and academic contribution should not divert us from thinking about the detail of what we are doing now, the expenditure of money in sending people abroad to establish normal, businesslike contacts with business people abroad. Outside any discussion on the economics or on the trend of our policies here, I think that kind of activity must be good and I am very hopeful that results will come. The Vote is small and the people will be very pleased to hear that that expenditure has been found out of savings in the Department.

I want to pay a brief tribute to the Minister whose name, I think, must be associated with this new departure. I want, particularly, to thank him for the physical energy and effort that he put into his recent very arduous tour of the United States. The people want that said. People have said it to me.

This Vote is very necessary. I should like to see even more money provided for this purpose. It is very essential that we should make contacts with other countries. The previous Government went a long way in encouraging manufacturers to set up industries. The Tánaiste should have a stock-taking of the number of factories in this country with a view to finding markets for our surplus products. A number of our factories are on short time. That trend is continuing. Manufacturers in other countries have enjoyed freedom for hundreds of years and they are endeavouring to create goodwill in other countries in order to secure markets for their products. Successive Ministers here have tried to find foreign markets and I hope they will continue to do so. That is very essential.

The House discussed on many occasions the possibility of improving our export trade. People from foreign countries have been encouraged to invest their money in this country with a view to national development. We have a long way to go before we are on equal terms with countries that have enjoyed freedom for hundreds of years. I am anxious, and the Fianna Fáil Party are anxious, from the national point of view, to support any practical suggestion put forward by the Minister for Industry and Commerce for the creation of export markets and the development of our national resources.

I am anxious that more contacts should be made, not only through the Department but through our trade representatives abroad. There is a big field to be developed. That can be done only by personal contacts. A number of manufacturers have undertaken foreign trade on their own initiative. Certain other manufacturers have not taken the initiative.

I wonder if the Minister could form a body of manufacturers with surplus products whose duty it would be to develop foreign markets for those products, with the aid of our trade representatives abroad.

While on general lines welcoming anything that may be done to stimulate the establishment of industries and industrial production in this country, we must have regard to the fact that there is a danger at the moment of looking too far afield for aid and neglecting our home resources and the inspiration that should be given to home effort to develop parts of our country where the establishment of industries is absolutely necessary for the economic life of the people. In certain areas over the past 20 or 30 years the position has fundamentally changed since the British occupation was removed. In the fight for national freedom, when the people looked for support from abroad, our effort never had the measure of success that it achieved when we relied on our own resources, built them up first and then welcomed whatever support we could get for them.

I would say that our Industrial Development Authority at the present time is too conservative in its approach to these matters. I know the authority has to be very careful about advancing moneys for the establishment of industries but it sometimes happens that when local industries, backed with technical knowledge and even having foreign markets, look for money for the purpose of expansion, they are disappointed. I do not say that happens very often but in some cases that have come to my knowledge they have failed to get from the Industrial Development Authority additional capital for the expansion of their business and the purchase of materials to fill orders already available in continental markets.

We ought to be very careful in our approach to that matter. We ought not to turn the minds of the people from the obvious fact that it is fundamental, in the national interests, to make local effort, to get, as far as is possible, technical knowledge and to encourage factories, where that technical knowledge is available, by financial assistance and otherwise. Efforts at home and abroad should be co-ordinated in such a way as to give to all our people the necessary impetus and encouragement, and also to encourage whatever help from abroad would enable us to supply the needs which we cannot fill from our own efforts.

I think the approach to this whole question of inviting foreign technical know-how in the further industrialisation of the country has on the whole been well received, not merely by the political Parties within the State but by the general public as a whole. Quite frankly, I think it is essential that the possibilities of establishing new industries by this means should be explored. It may well be that our hopes will be disappointed; it could very well happen that we could get considerable gratification from our successful pioneering efforts in this field, but, at all events, this channel ought to be explored to see what are the possibilities in this direction. If there are no possibilities, then it is clear to each and every one of us that the further development must come from our own efforts and, if we fail by our own efforts to achieve the necessary further development, then we are going to have with us as long as we live the chronic economic problems which have defied solution over the past 34 years.

Let us face the facts — the cruel economic facts of life this world and in this country. We are perched here on a rock off the coast of western Europe. That is our position. Life here is the life that we make it, and the standard of life here will be the standard of living which we will weave for ourselves. That standard, which we with our own brains and working with our own hands make, is the only standard of life we can enjoy. The extent to which we exercise our ingenuity will play a bigger part in earning a standard of living here than anything else. This country is not rich —we must face facts—in some of the basic materials that have made other countries rich in spite of themselves. This country has so far not discovered oil or has not so far discovered coal in the quantities that have made other countries great. This country has been deficient in other basic raw materials and it is because of these facts, facts which cannot be gainsaid, facts which cannot be ignored, that there is imposed on us the still heavier-than-normal burden of trying so to organise our economy that, recognising our deficiencies in the economic field, we can nevertheless make up for these deficiencies by fabricating articles from imported raw materials, and by attaining a standard of excellence in workmanship so as to be able to distribute these in an economically rewarding way throughout the world.

There is nobody in the world waiting to-day for any raw materials we have, if indeed we have any raw materials about which the world is excited or interested. We have no store-house here on which the world casts envious eyes, and our problem is to try to sell the limited quantity we have for export in markets which are highly competitive, in markets in which we can only retain our foothold by our ability to sell there at the keenest possible prices. If we are to maintain that foothold in these markets, maintain our position in these markets — substantial in one case, relatively small in most other cases — we can only do so by the exercise of economic ingenuity and the technical skill possessed by our own people.

Over the last 30 years various Governments in this country have sought in every way to strengthen in accordance with the dictum of Arthur Griffith, "our secondary arm," and during that long period, various Governments, the Opposition as well as this Government, sought in every way to strengthen the economic fabric of the nation along those lines and develop our secondary industries.

I give credit to all these Governments. Let us recognise this fact. We gain nothing either nationally or economically by trying to say: "We did so-and-so while you only did so-and-so." That is relatively unimportant compared with the problem facing us to-day. The problem facing us to-day, the problem of the disequilibrium in our balance of payments, the problem of of under investment, the problem of unemployment and the economic problem which induces thousands of our people to leave this country every year to make elsewhere commodities which ought to be made here — these are problems so great in magnitude as to dwarf any of these petty, puny considerations of who did this or who did that.

What does it matter to the Irish lad working in Birmingham or London who did this or that? What does it matter to the Irish boy or girl who has had to go to Canada for a living who did this or that? Is the main problem not to provide them with the answer to the question: "Where can I get a decent living?" We can only do that if we all recognise that no matter what Government is in power there is an obligation on all Governments to continue the drive until such time as we can build here an economy which will eliminate many of the evils which are with us to-day. They were with us 34 years ago and have so far defied solution.

I considered it would be worth while investigating the possibilities of seeing whether we could develop more industries with outside technical assistance. If there is any industrialist in this country who has even the glimmer of an idea of starting a new industry to produce something which is not at present manufactured here and if there is anything I can do for him, anything my Department can do for him, or the Government can do for him, within the limits of existing legislation, I now publicly invite him to come to the Department of Industry and Commerce and he will get every possible assistance to blow up his ideas in any direction he wishes until such time as we can get from him some concrete project which could be developed to fruition.

That policy is being tried, and has been tried, by various Governments but, notwithstanding all the efforts and notwithstanding some distinct successes, we still have a situation in which we import a very considerable quantity of goods and, in respect of a substantial proportion of these goods, it may be said it ought to be possible to produce them in Ireland. I want, first of all, to get Irish industrialists to produce the goods. I would sooner see these goods produced by Irish industrialists, by Irish firms with Irish capital.

We have tried to do that over the past 34 years and still we have this vast vacuum in our economy notwithstanding all our efforts. I still appeal to the Irish industrialists to go out after the establishment of new industries. Every possible assistance will be given to the Irish industrialist to do that, but if we cannot do it in those fields in which we are not noted for our technical ability to do these things, I feel we should tap the possibilities of inviting foreign technical assistance to come in here. If we are not making a variety of goods to-day because we have not got the requisite technical knowledge, then it seems to me we have got to get the requisite technical knowledge. If the Irish industrialist will get that technical knowledge and exploit it we will give him every possible help. But if it cannot be found we cannot sit down and permit our present difficulties to continue either because we are too conservative or too lazy to test out new ideas.

I want to see these new ideas tested out, to see if there is any possibility of getting from the people who have technical knowledge an interest in investing in Ireland for the purpose of supplying to our people goods which are at present imported, for the purpose of providing employment for our people and for the purpose of enabling us with the goods produced here and perhaps exported from here to pay for the other commodities which we must necessarily import if we are going to maintain the present or indeed a civilised standard of life. Look at the facts. In the 12 months of last year we imported £204,000,000 of goods— physical imports. We exported in physical exports £110,000,000 worth of goods. We may fill in the gap by invisible exports in the form of emigrants' remittances, dividends on equity shares and tourism.

But in the end we are still left with a balance of payments and quite clearly it is an undesirable position that we should have to balance our payments by reliance on such sources of income as emigrants' remittances and the continuance of the tourist industry. It would be much better from our point of view if we could cut down our imports by inducing our people where possible to buy Irish manufactured goods. In the £204,000,000 worth of goods which came in last year, and which have been coming in greater or lesser volume every year, there is a substantial quantity of goods for which there are substitute materials here. If we could induce our people to recognise that every time they bought goods from abroad when the same goods could be bought in Ireland, they were helping to make economic difficulties for the country and economic problems for the people, then we might get down to approaching this problem with an adjusted mentality and we might be able to get into our people's minds a greater consciousness of what is expected of them in so far as their duty to their own country is concerned.

There are people still tattooed with the idea that if a thing is foreign — if it is British, American or German — it must be good. They probably make a case against the Irish manufacture and say that if it is Irish it is no good because we still have not got the art of making such goods. Yet every shop window in this city and every factory in the country is a living example of the untruthfulness of such statements. Excellent goods are being made here and exported from here, but unfortunately we still have the mentality which believes that if the same goods are bought outside the country they must be good.

It is not just my task to kill that idea. It is the task of the Opposition, of ever man and woman who believe in Ireland, to kill that false economic philosophy. Whatever our difficulties are, we must get together in killing that notion and in replacing it with the idea that as good articles are manufactured here as are available elsewhere. I have called attention to the fact that our physical exports last year were £110,000,000 and that our imports were £204,000,000. It is because we have a situation of that kind that we have a balance of payments problem and it is because of that problem that this Government will be compelled to take steps that may have to be stern steps, disagreeable steps, but whether they are stern or disagreeable they must be taken if we are to protect our whole economy against a continuance of a state of affairs which would run down, in the interest of the importation of consumption goods, assets which are very valuable to us from a national viewpoint, from an economic viewpoint and from a political viewpoint.

Does that figure of £204,000,000 worth of imports include all physical imports and does the figure of £110,000,000 for exports include all physical exports?

Yes. The Deputy will get full information on page 11 of the Trade Statistics of Ireland for 1955 and the month of December of 1955. It is because of this proportion in our imports as compared with our exports that we must concern ourselves with the problem of exploring every possibility of establishing industries. I hope the visit of the Industrial Development Authority to certain countries, the visits they are now paying to America and the visits I hope they will pay to other countries will lead to some manifestation in a tangible way of interest by industrialists in those countries in establishing industries in Ireland. If these people have the technical know-how and if they are willing to bring that technical know-how to Ireland to produce goods for the Irish market and to export these goods, it is good from the point of view that our people will be provided with employment in the making of these goods here instead of being compelled to emigrate and find employment in making them elsewhere.

It will be good from the point of view that exports of that kind of commodity will help to pay for our imports. It will be good from the point of view that commodities imported now will be made in Irish factories and thus will help to reduce the volume of our imports and perhaps enable us to export an increased volume of Irish manufactured goods. This proposition, therefore, has everything to commend it so long as we continue to import that vast quantity of goods, a substantial proportion of which, and this should be underlined, are industrial goods. I would prefer to see Irish industrialists undertaking this expansion but if that is not possible, I think we must then endeavour to get the technical assistance from any source we can in order to produce these commodities in Ireland. I would prefer that the non-Irish industrialist, and I emphasised this in any talks I had on the subject, would arrange to marry his interest with Irish capital so that you could have Irish money and foreign money invested in an Irish enterprise.

In other words, you might have enterprise in which the technical know-how was brought in from outside and was bound up with Irish money. We have many of these industries in the country at the moment where a majority of the shareholders are non-Irish and a very substantial number of new manufacturing licences were issued to such people over the past 20 years to enable them to establish themselves here, even though the capital structure of such companies shows that the Irish shareholders did not have the requisite financial holding to comply with the provisions of the Control of Manufactures Act.

That was done by the last Government in order to get the industries established. To my mind that was good policy and I have done and will continue to do the same thing in order to encourage the establishment of industries here. If we cannot get the Irish national to develop and expand industry himself, if we fail to marry the foreign technical know-how with the Irish capital and if we can get the industry established only by giving a new manufacturer's licence to an extern firm, I do not see anything wrong in doing it. New manufacture licences of that kind have been given by my predecessor on several occasions. I shall do so where it is necessary, but I would impose this one condition —I have not been prepared, and I am not prepared, to invite foreign capital to come in here and engage in cut-throat competition with an Irish industry which has been established, which is making satisfactory products, and which is paying decent wages and observing decent conditions. I am not prepared to encourage foreign industries to come in here and compete with Irish industries which have done a good job and are doing a good job and where an invitation to a foreign industrialist could only result in cut-throat competition which is not only economically but nationally destructive.

I would like to say this, that any foreign industrialists that I met were not simple people and I may say that one of the first questions they asked was: "Who is supplying the market at the moment?" They were not interested in coming in here if the market was being supplied at the moment. Their main interest is to see if there is an opening in the market. The view they would take of an opening is a different view to the one they would take if the market were saturated because of products from Irish sources. American, German or Swedish industrialists are not interested and have no desire to come in here and produce goods in a market which the Irish firms are operating successfully.

In case anybody should think that there was an invitation given to foreign industrialists to come in and supply the Irish market which is being supplied from Irish sources, I give Irish industrialists this assurance. It is not only against my policy to invite foreign industrialists to come here and compete with Irish industrialists, but I shall do everything in my power to ensure that cut-throat competition of that kind will not be permitted or encouraged. There are gaps in our economy in which we need the technical know-how. I want to fill these gaps and will do everything possible to see that there will not be such gaps in our economy.

Deputy Childers raised the question of endeavouring to get foreign technical aid. I would like to see Irish industrialists take more interest in the possibility of obtaining technical aid. Such technical aid can be found in Europe and I would be prepared to give a substantial contribution to the expenses of existing industries in any effort they may make to secure such technical assistance. If they have any proposition to put to the Department of Industry and Commerce in that matter such proposition will be examined with the utmost consideration. There are funds available to enable Irish industrialists to send their own technicians to other parts to see how commodities are produced and to secure the needed technical knowledge. A goodly number of grants have been made in such cases. Grants are still available to assist Irish industrialists to send their own technicians abroad to acquire necessary technical knowledge. Anyone who wants to avail of them is quite welcome to avail of the facilities offered by the Department.

Deputy Childers expressed some concern at some reports in the papers of a speech I made in the United States. I made a speech at the National Press Club in Washington which is probably regarded as one of the best forums in the United States for putting out a point of view. I was invited to speak there at a luncheon and there were about 600, 700, or 800 journalists present, from editors down to the man on the job writing the actual news. I made a speech under the little of "Ireland's Economic and Social Progress". One portion of that speech contained this statement:—

"Numerous industries have been set up and expanded and are operating at a high level of efficiency, producing a diversity of goods to supply the needs of the Irish market and, in many cases, competing successfully in export markets with the manufactured products of other nations."

I then went on to say:—

"It would not be possible, in a short address of this kind, to detail the list of such industries, but the following may be mentioned by way of illustration: leather and leather goods, sugar and sugar products, cement, textiles and wearing apparel, ropes and twines, paper and paper products, flour and flour confectionery, furniture, motor vehicles assembly, rubber products, foundry products, cutlery and hardware goods, earthenware and tableware, glass and glass products, beer and spirits, biscuits, bacon, meat."

A copy of that speech was handed to every journalist reporting the function. A report of that speech was cabled from Washington to Dublin. It was received by the Irish News Agency. The reported version of that speech contained that list of industries, which, as you can see from the context of the speech, are industries which I claim have been established here, but the American reporter said that I was inviting people to Ireland to establish these industries. Subsequently the actual copy of this document was also sent from America on the same day and went into the Irish News Agency. Thirdly, another copy of this actual speech was released from the Government Information Bureau as soon as it had been confirmed that I had spoken and used the speech.

One would imagine that I had at least a two-to-one chance of getting the right speech reported. What happened? The wrong speech was sent out. I do not know to how many Irish newspapers it was sent, but it appeared in one daily newspaper that I was inviting Americans to come in here to make this list of commodities when, in fact, what I said was that these were commodities which we ourselves were making here at present and that the manufacture of them was evidence of Ireland's economic progress. That is the kind of torture that one has to face in circumstances of this kind and, as I have not had a suitable opportunity up to the present of correcting that mis-statement, I want to put these facts on record now, assuring Irish industrialists that the garbled report which was sent from the United States as to the type of industries I wanted to establish here was the product of somebody's crazed imagination and does not represent anything that I said on that occasion. I have a copy of the speech; here it is. The journalists had this in their hands and a copy was also supplied to the Irish News Agency when it had been confirmed. The strange thing is that, although three copies——

And the Minister did say what was in the copy?

——were sent to this particular newspaper office on this particular day, before publication, the wrong one was published.

Is the Minister sure he said what was in the copy?

Eight hundred people heard me. Does the Deputy want 900, or will 800 do him?

What point would the Minister have in saying anything else?

The Minister, concluding.

I think I have covered most of the points raised. Perhaps I had better advert to one particular matter. Some Fianna Fáil speaker the other day — I think I know his name but, lest I am incorrect, I do not want to quote a name — said on behalf of the Fianna Fáil Party that, if any of these foreign industries came in here and were permitted to export their dividends, that was no good to Ireland; that was a bad scheme, and I was blamed for permitting them to export their dividends. I am in goodly company if I have sinned. Speaking at the New York Commerce and Industry Association on 5th October, 1953, Deputy Lemass said:—

"The payment of interest and dividends on external investment is freely permitted and capital gains may also be repatriated."

Deputy Lemass in 1953 was saying substantially the same thing as I have been saying here. Somebody in the Fianna Fáil Party ought to stop people from saying that what he said, which I think is right, and what I said, which I am sure is right, is wrong; somebody ought to ensure that a colleague does not get the wrong slant, which the particular Deputy was endeavouring to put on this matter.

While we are on the subject of foreign investment let me quote what Deputy Lemass said at the Ottawa and Canadian Club on 25th September, 1953; critics of inviting foreign investment here may ponder on these words:—

"The Canadian economy is expanding so rapidly that it is probable that all Canadian resources, financial and technical, are fully occupied in Canada, but if, in the future, any Canadian business interests should consider that in Ireland, because of any special condition prevailing there or because of its geographical position in relation to European markets, there is scope for Canadian enterprise, they may feel certain they will be warmly welcomed in the expectation that closer commercial relations between the two countries will be mutually beneficial."

Again, Deputy Lemass, speaking at the New York Commerce and Industry Association on 5th October, 1953, said:—

"The expansion of the Irish economy has in the main been financed from Irish resources. We consider that the time has come, however, when its further progress can be advanced by permitting a limited investment of external capital, provided it is directed to types of development which will increase Irish production capacity or bring with it new techniques which we need. It is realised that the habit of external investment on private account is not very strong amongst Americans— notwithstanding their country's strong creditor position — but it is likely to grow and there are many reasons why it may be attracted to Ireland. Our geographical position offers easy access to most European markets. We have a trading position and existing trade agreements which facilitate access to these markets. There is an adequate supply of labour which is highly adaptable to modern industrial methods and capable of very good work. The payment of interest and dividends on external investments is freely permitted and capital gains may also be repatriated. Subject to approval in advance of the character of the investment, the total withdrawal of the investment is also permitted. A recently concluded double-taxation agreement protects American investors in Irish industry against an undue tax burden. There is in the area under the jurisdiction of the Irish State a political situation which can be fairly said to be the most stable in the world. The principles on which the Irish State is founded and which are expressed in its Constitution, are those which Americans understand and accept. Investment in Ireland is as secure from violent political and social upheavals as in the United States. We believe that it should be attractive to Americans seeking new outlets for their resources, and they may be assured that if they come to Ireland to participate in Irish industrial expansion they will be heartily welcomed."

There are the sentiments of Deputy Lemass in 1953. They were sound. I think they will stand the test of the next 20 years just as my endeavours in the same field will stand a similar test. May I make one appeal in conclusion: before Fianna Fáil Deputies speak on this, will they read these two speeches of Deputy Lemass again and thereby save themselves a tremendous amount of embarrassment?

I would like to hear the Minister say what he has in mind with a view to selling our surplus products in other countries?

What surplus?

What has the Deputy in mind? Mention two.

Bacon and butter.

We have a linen trade now in Balbriggan.

This Estimate deals with industrial development and not with selling.

With regard to the Minister's statement that the further development of Irish industry will depend almost exclusively — at least he gave that impression — on Irish promotion, will he say whether this statement of his arises from the experience he gained on his American visit?

I did not say that the further development of Irish industry depends exclusively on Irish promotion. I said the opposite. I said if it were to depend on that, as it has depended in substantial measure up to the present, the outlook would be pretty grim. It is because I think some of the present gaps can only be filled in by getting foreign technical assistance that I have done what Deputy Lemass did, namely, invited the Americans and the Canadians to come in here to produce the goods we do not at present manufacture ourselves; and it is better that they should be produced here — in Galway, if necessary, rather than have our Galway boys and girls trying to find jobs in England.

With regard to the issue of licences for the purpose of securing this foreign technical competence or know-how, as the Minister describes it, will he consider the purpose of the Undeveloped Areas Act when he is issuing these licences and will he ensure that such licences will be applied to industries in Galway, as he has specifically mentioned it, and such other areas as are provided for in the Undeveloped Areas Act?

There are developing at the moment two projects which, I hope, will blossom into full maturity. Both of them have a Swedish basis. They arose out of the visit to Sweden. Both of them, I hope, will give substantial employment in County Mayo, which never had an industry of this kind before and where the workers will be initiated by foreign technicians in the method of operating the industries. But I would ask the Deputy not to do anything to destroy my object.

The Minister will say, I take it, that these projects will be substantially aided under the provisions of the Undeveloped Areas Act? Is that not so? Will he also say that a Galway man, Mr. Seamus Sweeney, has played a very prominent part in relation to one of them?

If the Deputy wants to sing the praises of some pal of his, he had better do it at some smoking concert in Galway.

Vote put and agreed to.
Top
Share