When I spoke briefly on the Money Resolution, I pointed out that Section 19 was the operative section and that it was unworkable owing to the financial provisions. I still hold that view. It is very little use bringing in a Bill of this kind, unless the financial provisions make it workable. We have had experience of measures of a similar kind coming before the House on occasions since the State was established and we know what happened.
In the light of that experience, I say that if the Minister were really sincere in having something attempted in this matter, he should have made it at least elastic, so that the Minister would have discretion to exceed 50 per cent. in all cases where it could be proved that the cost would be so great that local authorities would be unable to promote them on their own. We know that coast erosion is a big and complex problem and that to do it properly would be very costly and expensive.
Paragraph (a) of sub-section (1) of this section says the Minister may contribute out of moneys to be provided by the Oireachtas such amount not exceeding one half of such coats and expenses as he considers proper. We had this question of the words "may" and "shall" mentioned here a few moments ago. The word "may" in this, I take it, does not mean that it compels the Minister to give even one half. It is worded in such a way that he cannot exceed 50 per cent. He could amend the sub-section by deleting the word "exceeding" and substituting "not less than 50 per cent." In that way he would be giving himself discretion to give a bigger grant than 50 per cent.
We all know that some of the schemes envisaged when this Bill was being drafted and considered will be of such magnitude that no local authority will undertake to provide 50 per cent. and afterwards try to recoup from the people who benefit a certain percentage of that. The Minister would shorten the debate very considerably if he would say that he is prepared to do that. Fifty per cent. or even 75 per cent. in some circumstances would not be going far enough, but if he left it open, he could then have the matter considered, and there would be some incentive for the local authorities to promote a scheme. The way the section reads at the moment, and particularly paragraph (a), no local authority will attempt to go even as far as to promote a scheme, never mind to see that it is carried out and afterwards contribute what will be their share of the costs and expenses.
The Minister should throw his mind back on legislation that was passed here on similar lines. I am sure he remembers very well the Barrow Drainage Act and what that implied. He has also, I am sure, a fair recollection of how it worked out and all the subsequent agitation that was carried on. There was apparently no satisfaction until the 1945 Act came along and relieved the local authorities concerned and the riparian owners of their contributions. There was a very vigorous agitation carried on about that scheme. Every Party in the House was approached and everybody was sympathetic. However, the Act being as it was, nothing could be done until it was repealed.
Would it not be better to bring in a Bill that would not need repeal or amendment at a subsequent date after it had proved a failure? We had the 1925 Drainage Act. The financial provisions were on somewhat similar lines and the Minister also knows quite well how that Act worked out. He knows very well that the contributions from the benefiting landowners were never collected and that if they had been collected, it would mean, in many instances, taking the only cow, perhaps, away from some of them. The result was that many county councils acted realistically. Instead of insisting on being paid and issuing distraint warrants for the collection of the drainage rate, they made it a county-at-large charge. They concealed that fact, of course, and those in power, I suppose, closed their eyes to it. Nevertheless, the difficulty was there.
The Minister has a case in point in his own constituency and that is the River Rye, which is a very small scheme compared with a scheme of coast erosion protection like some of those I have in mind. Does he for a moment imagine, if it depended on the Kildare County Council to promote that scheme, the council bearing 50 per cent. of the costs and expenses of carrying it out, that it would ever be promoted? After all, that is only a trifling expenditure compared with what it would cost in places like Rosslare and some of the other places mentioned by Deputy Corry and Deputy Desmond in the course of the debate here. In view of that, the Minister should show a bit of commonsense and deal with this question in a practical way. He has yet time to do so.
We have another paragraph here, paragraph (d), which reads:—
"There shall be a contribution by any owner or occupier of any of the protected lands consisting of the amount received or recovered pursuant to any agreement, between such owner or occupier and the promoting authority, providing for the making by such owner or occupier of a contribution towards such costs and expenses."
That is making the Bill even more ridiculous because it is bringing in a third party. It is bad enough to bring in the local authorities, but to bring in individuals and have collected from them sums apportioned on a calculation made out in decimals which many of them would not understand, no matter how you would try to bring it home to them, is fantastic. It would not satisfy any of them. Certainly they would not be prepared to pay and I am sure no county council will embark on promoting a scheme, no matter how much they desire to carry it out and how much they wish to protect the people concerned, if this proviso is here. They know very well what their difficulty would be.
In the first place, perhaps only four or five councillors would be directly concerned with the area. There would be, anywhere, perhaps from 20 to 40 county councillors who would not be directly concerned and they have to think of the ratepayers. They have to consider their position when going forward for election and that is a point which weighs with everybody who offers himself as a candidate. No matter how sympathetic they might be, they would not be prepared to go as far as they are expected to go in this section, and one of the things they know they could not succeed in would be the collecting of money from the people. The people would not agree to it, in my opinion. You might get one, two or three out of 30 or 40, but the remainder would never agree to that.
In view of that, I think the Minister should delete that sub-section altogether and then we would be coming somewhat nearer to the objective it is desired to achieve. I remember the 1925 Act and the schemes carried out under it, and I know what happened. I know the people concerned whose lands benefited, or were expected to benefit, and they had all kinds of arguments to put up. Many of them suggested that there was favouritism. They organised together and they were determined that they would not allow the seizure to take place, or if it did, that it would only succeed after violent resistance.
Does the Minister want to have something like that happen again? I do not believe it will go as far as that because I do not believe any county councillor would go so far as to promote a scheme while this present section remains in its present form. The Minister may be very anxious to do something about this. I am sure everybody here who understands the problem is also very anxious to do something about it, but we are not going the proper way about it and it would be better not to attempt it than to attempt it in the manner in which it is being attempted.
The last day this Bill was under discussion the Minister taunted Fianna Fáil with not having done anything. He mentioned that I was over in the Board of Works for three years and made no move. I would like to tell the Minister that I would not support a measure of this kind, never mind sponsor it, because I do not think it is good enough to carry on a game of make-believe, and that is about all this measure is in its present form if Section 19 is not very considerably amended. Any Bill introduced by Fianna Fáil was drafted to accomplish and serve a purpose.