Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 7 May 1957

Vol. 161 No. 7

Committee on Finance. - Vote 38—Local Government.

I move:—

That a sum not exceeding £2,863,700 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1958, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Local Government, including Grants to Local Authorities, Grants and other Expenses in connection with Housing, and Miscellaneous Grants.

The sum which I have now moved to be granted together with the amount voted on account involves a net expenditure from the Vote for Local Government in the current year of £4,728,700. The total shows a net decrease of £113,270 on the net amount voted for the year 1956-57, when account is taken of the Supplementary Estimate for that year which was voted last March. That is the position as revealed by the figures prepared under the previous Administration. I should, however, inform the House that I have provided for further savings of £500,000 in the Vote as I propose to administer it. These savings comprise sums of £270,000 from sub-head (I) 2 and £230,000 from sub-head (K). I shall explain the considerations affecting these items later, but I may say now that the sum of £500,000 is offset by nearly three times that amount which the Government has authorised me to expend from the general capital pool over and above the amount previously estimated to be available for roads, housing and sanitary services.

It is usual to review periodically the progress made in satisfying the post-war housing needs of the different areas. The progress made to the 31st March last represented completion by local authorities of 72 per cent. of these needs. A further 6 per cent. was in progress and 2 per cent. at the stage of entering into contracts. Thus 80 per cent. of the total needs estimated to be required ten years ago, increased or modified by subsequent experience, have now been met or are in course of being met. When we subdivide these figures we find that the county councils have in fact completed 96 per cent. of their housing needs; urbans (including Cork, Limerick and Waterford) 75 per cent.; and Dublin City 53 per cent. The number of dwellings in course of erection on the 1st April this year was 4,091 as compared with 6,017 a year before. It will be of interest to the House if I read out the details of dwellings in progress on the two dates I have mentioned and also on the corresponding date in 1955.

1/4/55

1/4/56

1/4/57

Dublin City

2,020

2,045

1,377

Other Urbans

1,734

2,270

1,575

Rural Areas

1,818

1,702

1,139

TOTALS

5,572

6,017

4,091

It is of importance also that the House should hear particulars of the number of dwellings in tender on these three dates. They are:—

1/4/55

1/4/56

1/4/57

Dublin City

761

815

222

Other Urbans

858

652

374

Rural Areas

1,410

1,747

837

3,029

3,214

1,433

Deputies will see from the figures which I have given that, as pointed out by my predecessor in introducing his Estimate last year, the position on 1st April, 1956, both as regards dwellings in progress and dwellings in tender was more satisfactory than at the corresponding date in 1955. The position as at 1st April, 1957, is, however, less satisfactory in both categories than either in 1956 or 1955. The decline in the volume of housing work being carried out by local authorities is, of course, to a considerable degree related to the fact that in a number of areas the needs on which the post-war housing programme had been based had been satisfied in full. This is already the case in 23 county health districts and in 21 urban districts. In 14 other urban districts the post-war housing requirements quoted in 1948 were found to have been inflated and the actual needs of those towns were satisfied by the provision of lesser numbers of houses, or were in course of being met in full at the end of the last financial year.

There was, however, another factor contributing to the decline in activity as shown in the figures for 1st April last and that was the hold up, for financial reasons, of the commencement of new works between last summer and the spring of this year. That has had the effect, not so much of considerably reducing the number of dwellings completed in 1956-57, as of diminishing those in progress and those ready to be undertaken now. This in turn will probably have the effect of reducing the number of dwellings which we may expect to have completed in the present financial year.

The global amount proposed to be provided for local authority borrowing is being increased to a figure which will be sufficient to initiate at successive stages in the present financial year the whole of the housing and sanitary services schemes which were held up at the end of the last financial year as well as some schemes at present maturing. It will also enable local authorities to continue operations under the Small Dwellings Acquisition Acts and to meet commitments already entered into under these Acts and commitments already entered into in respect of Supplementary Grants.

I have also issued a circular letter to local authorities inviting them to submit their proposals in regard to future operations under these Acts within the increased provision which it has been found possible to make for financing such proposals.

Since assuming office, I have recommended the issue of £1,340,000 to liquidate the obligations of local authorities outside the Cities of Dublin and Cork, to banks, to contractors and to persons awaiting payment of approved grants and advances for private housing. The position in this regard is that local authorities may now apply in the normal course for instalments of approved loans to meet the firm commitments already entered into by them, according as these commitments become due to be discharged.

As regards new works, it will be necessary to control the time of their commencement so that approvals to essential proposals now in hands and others accruing in the course of the year can be undertaken in progressive stages. In furtherance of this arrangement, I have already approved the undertaking of new works to the value of £300,000.

The Dublin Corporation has built 15,822 dwellings in the last ten years— 11,816 cottages and 4,006 flats. There was no practical alternative to the preponderance of houses on the outskirts of the city over the flats provided in the central city areas. The essential problems confronting the corporation was the clearance of the slums. Where it has been found possible to rebuild on the sites of slums only a small fraction of the original population could be rehoused there. Slum clearance was also essentially a thinning-out process. The largest families had to be rehoused first and the others left there for the time being. This involved deferring the final clearance of the slum areas until the small families and single persons residing in them could be rehoused. That position is now being reached in some important sites in central areas. The housing committee of the city council are giving special attention to the problems inherent in the clearance of, and rebuilding on, these obsolescent areas. The pace of housing in Dublin, according as a higher proportion of the programme is concentrated in the erection of flats, may prove slower than it was when the major portion of the annual output of dwellings was being provided by the erection of cottages.

As I have already mentioned, the sum of £2,000,000 provided in the Book of Estimates for grants under the Housing Acts has been reduced by a sum of £270,000 so that the net amount available for this purpose will be £1,730,000. This amount is calculated to be sufficient to meet existing commitments in respect of grants already allocated but not yet fully paid and commitments that will arise during the present financial year on foot of new applications. The total reduction of £440,000 in the provision for these grants as compared with the corresponding amount last year, less the saving in that year, has been found to be possible owing to the sharp decline, particularly in Dublin City, in the applications for new house grants. In the first six months of the last financial year grants for new houses were allocated in respect of 2,560 houses as compared with 3,089 in the corresponding period of 1955-56. In the second six months of 1956-57 the figures were 1,691 as compared with 3,006 in 1955-56, giving a total of 4,251 for 1956-57 as against 6,095 in 1955-56. These figures alone show a manifest reduction in private enterprise housing in the last 12 months which will clearly affect the amount of building of this nature to be undertaken even if the financial and other factors affecting the position were to improve.

The position as regards grants for reconstruction and repair and improvement is not so unsatisfactory. The applications for grants of this kind for 1956-57 were in fact higher than for 1955-56. I look forward to activities under this head improving still further in the present year and I consider it important that this should happen. These grants, the amounts and the scope of which were increased in the Housing (Amendment) Act, 1954, are an effective incentive to property owners to prevent the decay of houses which can be preserved and improved. This is obviously good social policy and it also offers a ready means of activity and employment by builders, builders providers and manufacturers.

The provision in the Estimates for the payment of contributions to annual loan charges of housing authorities has reached formidable proportions. It is placed at £1,835,000 in the current financial year as compared with £704,000 in 1949-50.

New loans sanctioned for water and sewerage schemes totalled about £2,060,000 in 1956-57 as compared with about £2,095,000 in 1955-56. Expenditure on these sanitary services schemes had been on a gradually rising scale up to the last financial year during which the commencement of a large number of schemes had to be temporarily deferred for the same reasons as those necessitating the hold-up in housing works. By arrangement with the Minister for Finance additional capital funds are now being provided to enable these schemes to proceed.

The loans sanctioned in 1956-57 included projects such as main drainage schemes in North Dublin City, Fox-rock, Killiney, Bishopstown, Lough and Togher, County Cork, and Mitchels-town, County Cork. Major loans were also sanctioned for a regional water supply for Lough Mourne, County Donegal, and the provision of a reservoir at Ballinclea, Dún Laoghaire.

Road Fund income from motor taxation, etc., during 1956-57 amounted to £4,767,190 as compared with £5,085,600 for the year ended 31st March, 1956. The decrease is primarily attributable to the effects of petrol rationing which put a number of cars off the road for a period at the beginning of the present calendar year and also resulted in a switch over to quarterly licences for the first quarter of this year. The outstanding liabilities of the Road Fund at 31st March, 1957, in respect of road maintenance and improvement grants and other liabilities amounted to £4,212,000. These liabilities were left at this unduly high figure on the date in question owing to the abnormally low proportion of the grants which had been paid in respect of the allocations for the preceding financial years. The amounts of the payments in these years were low mainly on account of (1) the allocation of a special grant of £500,000 in 1955-56 in lieu of the National Development Fund allocations that had been made to supplement the Road Fund in preceding years; (2) the "raid" of £500,000 on the Road Fund in aid of the Exchequer in 1956-57.

Road Fund income for the current financial year is estimated at £5,250,000 but fixed charges on the fund will reduce the estimated amount available for payment of road grants to approximately £4,787,000. Payments in respect of the existing liabilities of the Road Fund to road authorities will be the first charge on that amount. These amount to approximately £2,600,000. That leaves available for the payment of new grants a sum of only £2,187,000. Last year the grants allocated amounted to over £5,000,000. If the same allocation were made this year the amount available out of the net resources of the Road Fund would be quite inadequate to enable a reasonable proportion of the allocations to be made in the financial year.

The position, therefore, as I found it, was that if reasonable interim payments were to be made to local authorities the total of new grants should not exceed £3,000,000—a reduction of £2,000,000 with a consequent drop in employment of up to 4,000 men. Neither an increase in the overdrafts of local authorities nor a further drop in the amount of employment afforded on road works would be desirable. In these circumstances and after consultation with the Minister for Finance, the Government has agreed that the funds available for road works in the current year should be supplemented by a sum of approximately £900,000 to be made available from State capital and to be repayable from the Road Fund over a period of years. This will enable the allocation for the current year to be maintained at the same amount as that allocated last year.

The most important bridge construction work is the erection of the new bridge over the Slaney at Wexford. The contract was signed a year ago and work on the construction of the new bridge is now in progress. The estimated cost of the work is now £421,000.

I have been inquiring about the present position in regard to that much-debated project—the proposed new bridge at Youghal; and I am informed that my technical advisers have the detailed plans for the structure under examination but that further technical data and detailed contract documents are required before finality is reached in the long history of the preliminaries to undertaking actual work in this case.

The amount provided in sub-head K for grants towards the cost of schemes undertaken under the Local Authorities (Works) Act, 1949, is £400,000— the same as that provided for the past four years. In three of those years, the voted provision was supplemented by grants from the National Development Fund amounting to £100,000 in each of the years 1953-54 and 1954-55, and by £250,000 in 1955-56. The total grants allocated in 1956-57 amounted to £630,000, including a sum of £200,000 by way of supplementary allocation. The voted sum of £400,000 was supplemented by savings from another sub-head of the Department's Vote and by a Supplementary Estimate of £120,000 passed by this House last March.

The accumulated liabilities to local authorities in respect of the Works Act grants allocated in the past amounted to £220,000 on the 1st April, 1957. Payments in respect of these liabilities in 1957-58 are estimated at £170,000 which left only £230,000 to meet payments in respect of any new grants allocated. I decided that, with the restricted capital resources available, I should advise the Government and the Minister for Finance that it was more advantageous to apply this small sum towards the increases in the allocations for housing and sanitary services than to allocate it amongst county councils and some urban district councils for new schemes under the Works Act.

On this occasion I do not propose to go into any detailed review of the general administration of the Department or of local authorities. The matters which I have already reviewed constitute the major problems confronting me at the moment. As every Deputy is aware these problems are in essence financial problems and mainly arise out of restricted capital. The total net indebtedness of local authorities increased in the last financial year by about £11,000,000 and now stands at about £130,000,000. As regards revenue, the total annual revenue expenditure of local authorities is now up to £50,000,000 and in the current financial year may increase to about £51.8 millions. This amount is estimated to be met by State grants amounting to £22.4 millions, rate receipts of £20.1 millions and miscellaneous receipts of £9.3 millions. It is now a regular feature of local authority finance that a higher proportion of the expenditure is met by way of State grants than from rates.

There was some decrease in the rates struck in several counties for the present financial year, but the average county rate which is calculated to be 36/2 shows a slight increase over last year's figure of 36/–. The rate collection continues to be satisfactory.

Before I conclude, I wish to mention road traffic, not so much to make any statement of policy as to indicate that I am not unmindful of the amount of public attention that is focussed on the hazards of the roads. A new system of traffic signs was prescribed in regulations made by my predecessor on the 24th November last. The responsibility for providing them now rests with the road authorities in consultation with the Commissioner of the Garda Síochána. A new road safety booklet, entitled Rules of the Road, was also published by my predecessor and is being distributed free of charge to every person who got a driving licence within the past 12 months. Preparation is also being made for a more comprehensive distribution. The copies to be placed on sale to the general public will be at a nominal price of 2d. I am satisfied that these measures represent all that can be achieved administratively under existing legislation, so far as my Department is concerned, in the efforts to promote public safety and public convenience in connection with road traffic. I do not propose to make any comment on what further effective steps can be taken by way of legislation, as I have not yet had a full opportunity, since assuming office, of considering in a detailed manner the heads of legislation on this matter which it had been proposed to sponsor in the last Dáil, but which are not yet drafted in any complete form. I want to apologise now for our failure to provide copies of this statement. Our failure arose——

The Estimate came on much more quickly than was anticipated.

That is so. I want to apologise, too, to all those affected by our failure to provide copies.

I must apologise to the Minister too. The Estimate came on much more quickly than anticipated. I was not here for the beginning of the Minister's speech, but I would like to know if he dealt with the Local Loans Fund issues for the current year or is he leaving that entirely for his colleague to-morrow?

I have not dealt with that matter.

The Minister is leaving that for the Capital Budget and the Minister for Finance to-morrow?

The subject of road grants is a matter of considerable interest to me and to my constituents. I was alarmed to hear the Minister say this evening that there was to be a substantial cut in road grants. I was put at ease when he said they would bring in £900,000 in order to keep the road grants at the same level as last year. As reported at column 280 of Volume 157 of the Official Report, the present Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, then Deputy Blaney, asked the Minister of the day for information in respect of the amount allocated in each of the financial years 1953-54 to 1955-56 for (a) road upkeep and improvement work, (b) tourist road grants, (c) special grants for bridge works, (d) grants for schemes, the technical aspects of which are administered through his Department, (e) the scheme for the improvement of roads serving E.S.B. turf-fired generating stations, and (f) the scheme for roads in Fíor-Ghaeltacht areas.

The answer to that question shows that my constituency fared very badly. In 1953-54 we got £137,000. There are constituencies here which are not as highly valued as Waterford and which do not pay as much rates, and they got three times that amount. How that figure was arrived at I should like to know.

When we come to tourist grants we find that Cavan got £10,000; Clare £35,000; Cork £55,000; Donegal £55,000; Galway £55,000; Kerry £55,000; Leitrim £25,000; Mayo £55,000; Roscommon £25,000; Sligo £25,000; and Waterford got £5,000. We were down in the "also rans" there.

When we come to schemes for the improvement of roads in the Fíor-Ghaeltacht areas we find that Donegal got £14,500; Galway £13,800; Kerry £5,000; Mayo £4,800; and Waterford got nothing. The former Minister for Local Government told me that we had not got a Gaeltacht in Waterford. Let me assure the present Minister that we have. Ring is in Waterford. Ring and the Helvic area is an Irish-speaking area.

I come now to 1954-55, tourist road grants. Cavan got £10,000; Clare £35,000; Cork £55,000; Galway £55,000; Kerry £55,000; Leitrim £25,000; Mayo £55,000; Roscommon £25,000; Waterford £5,000.

Special grants for employment schemes—this is another interesting column—were: Cavan £1,250; Clare £255; Cork £1,500; Donegal £14,500; Galway £8,000; Kerry £6,250; Leitrim £2,500; Longford £1,000; Mayo £12,000; Roscommon £250 and Sligo £2,500. Waterford gets pennies from heaven—£250.

It took the Deputy a long time to wake up.

I was not here at the time.

That explains it.

The Deputy should not have come in at all.

Order! Deputy Lynch must be allowed to speak.

I was not here then, but I am here now.

[Interruptions.]

Deputy Lynch must be allowed to make his speech. Deputy Killilea must cease interrupting.

I am quite used to this Fianna Fáil blackguarding. I am examining here how the road grants increased alphabetically: Cavan went up to £160,000 between the years 1953-56; Clare went up; Cork went up—but it is a big county; Donegal went up from £290,000 to £301,000.

Evidently the purpose of this question was to embarrass the Minister of the day. It was put down by a county man of his who seemingly thought that Donegal was not getting its share. It looks to me as if the then Minister remembered where he came from, and he gave it the lion's share. In Waterford we got £137,000 in 1953 and we got £136,000 in 1954; in 1955, we got £132,000.

Now I should like the Minister to tell the House how these road grants are allotted. On what basis is the calculation made? How is it done? Is it just by rule-of-thumb? Is it allocated on mileage or, if a county has been good in striking a high rate for roads, is that county mulcted? Does it not get a fair share of the grants? Are the counties which have failed to do their duty and strike a high rate looked after in a special way? If that is so, then it is better that it should be said now and that we should be told that that is definitely the case.

A rate of 11/– in the £ for roads was struck in my constituency last year and nearly the same rate was struck this year. It cannot be said that the ratepayers payers down there are not playing their part. They have been doing that for years. Hence I do not see why they should not get recognition from the Road Fund to which they contribute as much as, if not more than, many of the counties which appear to get special preference. Last year, there was an increase in allocations for employment schemes in Waterford from £250 to £300. I am sure they must have had a party in the county council when they heard of the extra £50 they were getting.

With regard to schemes for the improvement of roads in the Fíor-Ghaeltacht areas, Waterford is time and again excluded. I hope the Minister will consider this. I should like to hear how this money is allocated. Are special schemes to be put up and, if so, will the Minister consider them?

There is a lot of work that should have been done over the years in Waterford. One of the jobs that should have been done as far as tourist roads are concerned is to continue the road from the promenade in Tramore to the sandhills. They are always threatening to do it, but they do not ever seem to get the money for it. I consider that the Minister should give that matter his sympathetic consideration.

The Minister mentioned the traffic code. Of course, reference was made on the Estimate for the Department of Justice to the enormous number of people killed on the roads. I put down a question last week asking whether the Minister for Local Government would be prepared to institute legislation and the Minister said he was not quite ready. I submit that the position is so alarming at the present time in relation to the enormous number of accidents on the roads in which people are killed that a Committee of the House should be got together to draft proposals for legislation in order to give us a safer traffic code.

The traffic in Dublin seems to be "haywire" and the only people who appear to take any notice of the rules of the road or the safety of the public are the bus drivers. The motorists are to blame in many cases, but I would say that on the whole cyclists are the greatest offenders. The public do not seem to realise that an enormous amount of traffic has come on the roads. All kinds of transport have increased, motor cars, motor cycles and buses, and the happy-go-lucky way we have on the roads is no longer conducive to safety. The figures are rather appalling. The death of a dear one is a terrible blow indeed and the person killed may be the breadwinner, the mother of a family or perhaps a child. In most of these cases, lives are lost through carelessness. As far as we can see, our people are not prepared to take care on the road and legislation will have to be introduced quickly. A code will have to be drawn up and rules brought in.

The Deputy may not advocate legislation on the Estimate.

The Minister mentioned the traffic code.

That is quite true.

Let me now come to the question of housing. It was stated by a Deputy on the opposite side during Question Time last week that the previous Government were antagonistic towards housing. If they were, they had a queer way of showing it, having regard to all the houses they built. I hope the present Government will show the same "antagonism". I am sure the Minister feels the same way as his predecessor. There is no use talking nonsense about antagonism. A big number of Deputies are members of local authorities and these local authorities, including the county managers, have consistently put up schemes quickly. A really good job was done by the local authorities in submitting schemes to the Department and even though the Department sometimes held them up and sent back plans and specifications, on the whole the result was fairly good.

I remember the present Minister for Local Government meeting us in a very fair way. He was very co-operative with us. As a matter of fact, we had him down to open a scheme of houses. I would not think that is funny, Deputy Corry.

I think it is very pleasant.

It was a very pleasant day, sir.

The Deputy got more out of the present Minister than he did out of the other Minister.

We did all right with the other Minister, too, but he did not know about the roads at that time. I will not refuse to give credit to anybody in this House for having done some service. The Minister served us very well when he was in office. In Waterford, at the moment, we are asked to spread our housing schemes over a period of from three to four years, but the number of houses for the City of Waterford—170—that we are asked to spread over that period is very small. Our plan was to build these in the one building season. We are in a very good position in that we have a direct labour scheme which has been running successfully there for about six and a half years. They have built exceptionally good houses considerably cheaper than the contract price. They are still in action. I am very happy to say they are about to finish their 500 houses.

It could be alarming for us in Waterford to have housing slowed up. I would bear with the Minister because some local authorities would rush into building houses just for the sake of building them although they might not have the demand for the houses. We have the demand for houses within the City of Waterford. The demand has been consistent. I have always been surprised, on making inquiries at the City Hall after a housing scheme had been let, to discover that the amount of applicants had not reduced. As a matter of fact, after we let houses—up to about 200 houses on one occasion—the applications increased. I could give many reasons for that. One of the reasons is that, even though people complained that the rents were high, or one thing or another, when they saw the houses the local council were building they considered them good value. Working persons with a family who were living in flats, who were qualified to get houses, immediately put in their applications.

The Minister mentioned his intention to find the same amount of money this year for housing reconstruction grants as last year. That scheme has been very successful in the local authority of which I have the honour of being a member. From reports I have read, I gather that the scheme has been adopted by people in various parts of the country with great enthusiasm. I would, however, say to the Minister that people sometimes apply for a grant when they have only just so much money to do the job and they do the job. Then, when the job has been completed and inspected, they get their grant. Initially, they might have looked only for what would be two-thirds of the maximum grant. Later on, they might decide that it would have been much better if they had undertaken a bigger job and they might like to get the extra work carried out. That is frequently the case in some of the old houses where the old roof would not be too good. I feel that where people can show that more work remains to be done and where, in the first instance, a full grant was not given in respect of the first work carried out, an exception should be made by the Department in allowing such people to do the full job and in giving them the balance outstanding in respect of the full grant.

A complaint I frequently hear about housing reconstruction grants is that sometimes there is great difficulty in getting the money. I have investigated that point myself. I must say I received great co-operation from the Department, and, wherever possible, the matter was expedited. I am convinced that one of the reasons for slowness in the payment of the grants is that there are not enough inspectors on the job to enable the inspections to be expedited. We have one man who is supposed to do an enormous area. It is very difficult to get him into the Waterford area sometimes when jobs are finished.

I would impress upon the Minister that the majority of the people doing this work are not very wealthy. As often as not, the contractors, too, are not rich men. They would be small contractors and they would set about doing a small job. The contractor would have to go to the local builders providers to get materials for the job and the man who is getting the job done might have only £100 which he would pay to the contractor. The contractor, however, is waiting to get the grant—both the Local Government grant and the grant from the local authority. That is where the catch seems to lie. There seems to be great difficulty with many of these small contractors. I know that that is not peculiar to my own constituency because other Deputies tell me they have the same trouble.

I suggest that in order to expedite the payment of housing reconstruction grants and to have the whole matter put on a more business-like footing more reliance should be placed on the report of the local officers—the county surveyors, the assistant county surveyors or the borough surveyors or their assistants. Where it is not possible for the Department's inspector to make the inspection within a fixed time, I feel that the report could and should be sent in by the inspectors or the engineers or the local authority. That would help to expedite the matter.

I realise that the Minister and the Department should have a check on these things but I think that that check could be covered by a general inspection. I know that the Department's inspectors go to the various local authorities for a general inspection and I am sure that the houses that have been repaired under the reconstruction grants scheme could then be inspected by the Department's inspectors. If, in their opinion, the local authority officers were not doing their inspection work properly they could shut down on that local authority and say: "You will have to abide by the inspection of the Department's inspectors. We will not accept your reports in future." That is something that must be dealt with because it is a great hardship on people who are short of money, especially at the present time. I have two or three cases of people who have about £100 and who are more or less afraid to go on with the work because the contractor they would engage would not be a rich man and would ask them when they would be able to pay him the money. They come to me and ask me if I can tell him when they will get the money. That is something which neither I nor any other Deputy can foretell. It is a six-mark question for us.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Wednesday, 8th May, 1957.
Top
Share