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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 4 Jul 1957

Vol. 163 No. 6

Supplementary Estimates, 1957-58. - Vote 28—Fisheries.

I move:—

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £44,800 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1958, for Salaries and Expenses in connection with Sea and Inland Fisheries, including sundry Grants-in-Aid.

As forecast by the Minister for Finance in his financial statement on 8th May last and in my opening address on the Fisheries Estimate on 4th June last it is proposed to provide an additional sum of over £50,000 in the current financial year for Fisheries Services.

The Supplementary Estimate now before Dáil Éireann is for a net sum of £44,800. Its object is to provide for certain new services and an expansion of existing ones.

The new services proposed are as follows:—

I am making provision this year for a sum of £7,500 under new sub-head E (6) to cover the initial or preliminary cost of providing one exploratory vessel, which it is hoped to build in an Irish boat-yard. As I mentioned in my Estimate speech, the need for exploratory fishing work is long overdue and its lack is a great handicap to successful fishing operations in any but the merest fringe of our coastal waters. This need has become acute in recent years now that the development of the fishing fleet has entered on the phase where the catching power available can be regarded as adequate for the exploitation of immediately inshore fishing grounds.

It is accepted in all countries that exploratory work of the kind I have in mind cannot be regarded as within the scope of working fishermen, who have heavy commitments to meet and cannot be expected to devote potential fishing time to the pursuit of problematic catches in untested waters. It is the common practice in other countries to provide at state expense for systematic testing of fishing grounds and for development of new types of fishing by the operation of exploratory fishing vessels. As an earnest, therefore, of my determination and the Government's desire to make better use of our fishing resources I intend making a start this year with this important new work.

A sum of £4,100 is provided under new sub-head E (7) for a training scheme for fishermen. This scheme was also forecast by me in the course of the debate on the Fisheries Estimate last month. As Deputies may well know, we have a good fishing tradition but unfortunately we lack educational facilities necessary to make fishing a vocation and worthwhile livelihood. We are, in fact, one of the few maritime nations in the world without such facilities. Certain measures of a limited nature have been taken for the training of skippers for boats issued under the Gaeltacht boat scheme and my Department has thereby gained valuable experience.

My intention now is to provide in permanent form a training scheme for fishermen in seamanship, navigation, and modern fishing techniques, etc. The task will not be an easy one but I am hopeful that, as the Government is prepared to provide these facilities, there will be an encouraging response and that we will have young men coming forward who are anxious and enthusiastic to become first-class trained fishermen and skippers. In the current year I propose to take steps towards the provision of a suitable training vessel and I also intend to initiate shore-based courses of instruction. A sum of £2,000 is being provided towards the cost of training vessel and a similar sum towards the expenses of trainees. With a sum of £100 to meet incidental expenses, this brings the provision under sub-head E (7) up to the total of £4,100 which I mentioned earlier.

Deputies will note that I am providing an additional sum of £30,000 by way of Grant-in-Aid to An Bord Iascaigh Mhara under sub-head G. This sum is made up of £25,000 for the provision of two extra fishing boats and £5,000 towards the cost of erecting an ice plant at Dunmore East, County Waterford.

Moneys for the provision of boats and gear are normally made available to An Bord Iascaigh Mhara by way of repayable advances from the Central Fund but, as Deputies will note, this provision of £25,000 is an innovation. My intention is that at least two boats of 50'-56' type will be constructed and commissioned this year. I want to be in a position to use them to promote development of the fishing industry at such points on the coast as may prove necessary from time to time, to direct that the boats should be operated in a particular way and land their catch in accordance with certain directions. The boats will, in effect, constitute a form of reserve of catching power which could be deployed as may be found necessary to promote fishing activity at selected points to meet various needs, e.g., processing establishments, reduction plants, etc.

An ice plant at Dunmore East is badly needed and it is intended that An Bord Iascaigh Mhara will start work this year to make good the lack. Dunmore East has re-developed into an important fishing port of recent years, particularly for herring, and ice is an absolute necessity if the large catches are to be handled and transported in an efficient manner. The cost of erecting and equipping such an ice plant is estimated at £10,000. I am including a free grant of £5,000 towards same in this Supplementary Estimate and I also intend with authority of the Minister for Finance to have, additionally, a sum of £3,000 for this purpose issued to An Bord Iascaigh Mhara this year by way of a repayable advance from the Central Fund. In all, a sum of £8,000 will be made available this year for the ice plant leaving the balance necessary to complete the work to be found next year.

Of the additional £5,000 to be allocated to the Inland Fisheries Trust £3,000 is being made available from the National Development Fund for the completion of work on the fish farm which is being established by the trust at Fanure, Roscrea. The balance of £2,000 is required for the purposes of general development work for the improvement of brown trout fisheries being carried out by the Trust and it is proposed to allocate this sum by way of an increase in the Grant-in-Aid of the Trust from sub-head F (6) of the Fisheries Vote.

Financial provision is also being made for a technical assistance service which has not hitherto been provided for in the Vote for Fisheries. Prior to the transfer of the Fisheries Administration to my Department in April last, fisheries technical assistance projects were financed from the Vote for Agriculture. A number of projects are likely to be undertaken in the current financial year and are expected to cost £2,000. Some of these come within the scope of the technical assistance sub-agreement recently concluded with the United States Government providing for the use by the Government of £350,000 of the Grant Counterpart Fund. The cost of such fishery projects, estimated at £800, will accordingly fall to be recouped out of Grant Counterpart and an Appropriation-in-Aid of this amount has been provided for. The remainder of the cost of the technical assistance projects, estimated at £1,200, will be borne entirely on the Fisheries Vote.

Summing up, I may remark that the gross amount sought by me in this Supplementary Estimate is a sum of £45,600. Deducting the Appropriations-in-Aid, estimated at £800, the net sum required is £44,800.

I may remind Deputies that a sum of £3,000 is being made available from the National Development Fund to the Inland Fisheries Trust for their fish farm at Roscrea and that £3,000 will be issued to An Bord Iascaigh Mhara as a repayable advance from the Central Fund in respect of the Dunmore East ice plant.

The total amount required in the current financial year for sea and inland fisheries, inclusive of the original net Estimate, is £177,000 by way of supply services.

Would the Minister tell us whether the figure of £7,500 for the exploratory boat and the figure of £25,000 for the other two boats represent the total cost or merely the payments on account of total cost which fall to be met during this financial year?

In the case of the boats, it will represent the total cost and, in the case of the exploratory boat, it represents a contribution.

What is the total cost?

It has not been estimated finally.

Can the Minister not give us some rough estimation?

I should reckon it at about £32,000.

This Estimate is of some interest in my constituency, more especially because of the fact that in the Budget statement the Minister for Finance said:—

"I propose to make available for the benefit of the sea and inland fisheries an additional sum of approximately £50,000. Of this sum, £45,000 will be used to erect an ice plant at Dunmore East."

When the Estimate for Fisheries came before the House, the Minister never mentioned anything about that. I asked him about it when I spoke and he did not mention it in his reply. I was forced, therefore, to ask him about it at the end of his reply and he said that the £45,000 for Dunmore was due to a misprint. That is a rather serious position. I do not agree with the Minister that it was due to a misprint. The Minister has just said that the fishing port of Dunmore has developed. There is no question about that. It has developed under its own steam. Not one penny piece has it ever got from any Government.

They got boats.

They got two boats out of a total of 80 boats. I have all the data here. I do not come in here to speak without first looking up all the data on the subject on which I propose to speak. At column 2197 of Volume 160 of the Official Report, in answer to a question I asked on December 12th, 1956, as to the amounts provided and expended from State funds on the provision of plant, machinery and buildings by the Sea Fisheries Association and An Bord Iascaigh Mhara, I got the following information:—Killybegs, £76,000; Galway, £30,000; Dingle, £18,000; Schull, £5,000; Baltimore, £10,000, and Dunmore East, nothing.

There were 80 boats given to fishermen by the Minister's Department. Dunmore East got two. I have the figures here. The questions I asked the Minister from time to time on this matter caused some merriment on the Fianna Fáil benches. In 1953, a total of 6,000 cwts. of fish was landed at Dunmore East. In 1954, 17,000 cwts. were landed and in 1955, 23,000 cwts. were landed. That is not a bad record.

On the 1st May I put down a question asking for the landings at the various fishing ports in Ireland over a period of ten years. The Minister was not in the House and the question was answered by the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, who replied that:—

"The information requested by the Deputy is not readily available from the records of my Department. The extraction of all the requisite figures would involve examination of particulars relating to some 165 fishing centres, and in my opinion the expenditure of time and effort entailed could not be justified.

The Deputy will readily find information in the Annual Reports on Sea and Inland Fisheries on fish landings by areas. If the resources of my Department permit, I will, on request, endeavour to supply him with supplementary information on any particular area which he has in mind."

On the 18th June, the day on which I spoke on the Fisheries Estimate, the Minister, in reply to a question by another Deputy, said that this information was in a tabular statement and would be published in the Official Report. I got the Official Report. The information that I could not get on 1st May was supplied to another Deputy on 18th June. I was without that information when I was speaking here on fisheries, and it would have been some argument for me. Here in this tabular statement we have all the fishing ports, from Killybegs right around to Buncrana. The quantity of wet fish landed at Killybegs was 60,000 cwts. The quantity of wet fish landed in Dunmore East was 62,000 cwts.

The Deputy should not be poaching on the Wexford coast.

The Deputy's constituents in Kilmore Quay are often glad to have the Port of Dunmore to come into and sell their fish. If the Deputy would only take it on himself to drive the length and breadth of his constituency and see the economics of fish selling, he would realise that Dunmore East is of some value to fishermen both in Waterford and Wexford.

We will get the grant transferred if you do not mind.

How many boats can you bring in? I am talking about the place where the fish is caught and sold.

They are caught off the coast of Wexford.

If there had been attentive Deputies from Wexford, perhaps fishing in Wexford would have been better developed. I do not think the Minister or any Deputy should take it amiss that I should speak about this port in my constituency that has developed itself. I do not think the Minister will take it amiss that I should put it to him that Dunmore should have better treatment. Dunmore is a port properly developed, with suitable buildings, with deep freeze plant, with proximity to continental markets, and large ships can enter the port and be based there by continental buyers. There are very few ports on the south coast which can accommodate ships of the large tonnages that can come into Dunmore.

I put it to the Minister that, when the Budget statement was read here, the intention was to spend the £45,000 in Dunmore. Now there is to be a scattering of the money and the Minister might be inclined to take the view that Dunmore got along all right down through the years and can get along for another little while. There is more than an ice plant needed in Dunmore. The room is there; the fishermen are there; the buyers are in the habit of coming there—Irish buyers, English buyers and continental buyers. Not only can Dunmore be regarded as a great base for fishing vessels, but it is also a good market for fish and a distributing centre for the South-East.

I shall deal now with the matter of boats. I kept storming the Minister's predecessor, the Parliamentary Secretary to the former Minister for Agriculture, Deputy Oliver Flanagan, in regard to boats and a boat was allotted to the Gaeltacht port of Helvic in my constituency. That boat is practically finished. She is even named the Ardmore. Some Helvic fishermen are being trained at present in Galway. The confusion that seems to surround the giving of Government grants seems to affect this matter and the people concerned are now under the impression that this boat is not coming to Ring. I would like an assurance from the Minister that the boat is coming to Ring. It is only our due.

I do not come to this House to belittle any other fishing port. I come in here to sing the praises of the fishing port in my constituency, to indicate the position of the fishermen at Ring who were promised a boat and for whom a boat was earmarked and two men sent to Galway for training, and to urge that there should be no disappointment about that. I am sure nobody will blame me for that.

This is the debate on the Fisheries Estimate over again.

If the Deputy had been paying some attention to this matter things would be different. Does the Deputy think that this is clever? If he continues this clowning that he has been engaged in for the last 30 years, playing to the gallery, it will not get anywhere with me. If he thinks he will slow me down by these interruptions, I may tell him that they will keep me going.

On a point of order. Is this a debate on a Supplementary Estimate or can any other Deputy discuss the entire Fisheries Estimate on this Estimate?

I was about to draw the Deputy's attention to the fact that he is rambling outside the scope of the Supplementary Estimate. I gave him a great deal of scope.

I am being constantly called to order by this Petronius over there. As you know, I will always bow to your rulings, a Cheann Comhairle. When I came into this House this evening I had already spoken on this matter and I had already asked questions. The Minister said that the matter was coming up on a Supplementary Estimate and could be discussed then and I am discussing it now and I think I am right on the ball.

The Deputy may discuss what is in this Supplementary Estimate, and of course nothing else. There is no provision for boats in the Estimate. There is provision for a training vessel.

And £25,000 for two boats, Sir.

I am sure I would not be blamed for mentioning this when we have been disappointed about so many things. We have been promised things. We actually heard the promises read out in the Budget statement, the most important statement of the year. The local papers in Waterford went to town blessing the Minister for Finance for this wonderful manna from Heaven.

I do not see it in the Estimate. Perhaps the Minister would help me.

It is a grant to Iascaigh Mhara.

If that is for boats the Deputy is quite relevant and in order.

The Minister mentioned that there were two boats in that.

I had to draw the Minister's attention to the treatment that my constituency got in previous Estimates.

You got that treatment from the last Government.

If Deputy Allen wishes to make a statement he may do so afterwards but he should now allow Deputy Lynch to proceed without interruption.

That will be wonderful. There will be a rush into all parts of the House when Deputy Allen makes his statement.

Deputies should discuss the Estimate and nothing else.

People will arrive in boats for that statement.

We have got bad treatment and disappointment. In regard to the £45,000 it was a case of: "Now you have it; now you have not. There it is; now you have not got it." We were disappointed about that and now we may be disappointed about the boat, the Ardmore. She might founder on the way or find her way to some other port. The compass may go wrong and the boat may be taken in another direction.

One of the principal fishing ports, the fishing port where the most wet fish was landed last year, should get better treatment, should get preferential treatment.

What was the value of the landings in comparison with Killybegs?

The value of the landings at Killybegs was £115,000, and at Dunmore East £50,000. Of course you have ice plants and processing plants at Killybegs, and God knows what else, and good luck to Killybegs.

We shall have more.

The quantity was lower.

They have got it but they do not want anybody else to get it.

Compare the quantities.

The pier at Dunmore East was as up to date 100 years ago as it was last year.

Who built it?

The British; it was a pity they did not build more of them. It was a pity they had to leave it after them. Deputy Allen knows the history of Wexford and Waterford. That port was built by the British administrators for British battleships. They had to go away and leave it behind them. The Irish moved in and are using it as a fishing port. It would have been a fine thing if they had built more of them around the country. Then we would not have Deputies coming in asking the Minister to spend £2,000, £3,000 or £5,000 on putting up fishing piers.

I think my argument is reasonable. Here is a fishing port which lands an immense quantity of fish, that has the men and the boats but it has not modern equipment. It looks as if you are getting the £5,000 from this Vote for the ice plant out of the £45,000 granted. Dunmore East is being "docked" £45,000. There is a good dock in Dunmore East but they did not think they would be in for a "dock" of £45,000. I would say to the Minister that he should examine the position concerning the erection of this ice plant for £10,000, £5,000 from one Vote and £5,000 from the previous one. Based on the amount of fish that it landed at Dunmore East it should rate a bigger plant and bigger storage. It is the storage that would be necessary.

I want to put it to the Minister, as Deputy Brennan has given me the opportunity, even though we landed more fish at Dunmore East last year than they did at Killybegs, that our fish was not worth as much as the Killybegs fish because we had not the means of processing the fish, of icing them down, and holding them for a future market. Therefore, it is all the more necessary that the Minister should reconsider this amount for Dunmore East and supply us some of the other things as they had intended to do at the start on Budget day.

I have not much to say on this Estimate except to compliment the Minister on making an effort in a new direction, if you like to put it that way, by providing something that has been lacking for years, namely, the exploratory boat which is urgently required to carry out a job for fishermen which they have not the time nor the facilities to carry out themselves. I think every fisherman will welcome it and every port, irrespective of where it is situated. The provision of an exploratory boat is an innovation and will evidently contribute very much to improved landings of fish.

None of the Deputies in the House should envy any other area where progress has been made, nor should we try to extol the merits of any particular place over and above another place. I think development has taken place in proportion to the effort that has been put into it. I am not being unkind to Dunmore East, or anywhere else, when I say Killybegs is the premier fishing port in Ireland. It has become such mainly due to one thing, the hard work, intelligence and endeavour of the fishermen who, with centuries of tradition behind them, have worked hard to make the port what it is to-day. Any facilities we have got became so obviously urgent, because of the efforts of our fishermen, that they were overdue when we did succeed in getting them. There was no specialised or privileged treatment meted out to Killybegs port that was not overdue.

We have to thank the previous Fianna Fáil Government and a previous Minister, who was not Minister for Fisheries, for giving us one of the best piers in the country. I am glad to say that the rate of progress has now left that pier in a position where we are anxiously seeking an extension to accommodate the great number of boats that are berthed there nightly. If Dunmore East secures only two boats it is probably because it did not seek them. These boats cost approximately £12,000 or £13,000 each when equipped and put to sea. It is a courageous undertaking for a small crew of fishermen to take over one of these boats, put down the 10 per cent. and cover the capital and interest repayment over a short period afterwards. I think the record in that respect in the fishing port of Killybegs has more than justified any assistance they have got.

I want to make an appeal to the Minister on behalf of Killybegs. He has mentioned the question of training, of establishing classes for training fishermen. I should like to remind him that Donegal Vocational Education Committee have already established the nucleus of a training school at Killybegs out of the limited resources available to them. We have got itinerant teachers to undertake vocational classes for the benefit of young fishermen who are prepared to apply their skill to the industry in the future. I hope the Minister will regard that as the nucleus of a maritime training school for young people who are prepared in increasing numbers to take part in the work that is being carried out.

As the premier fishing port in Ireland we have first call on the Minister for any funds that may be available for the establishment of such a school. I do not claim that the school should be for the use of the fishermen of Killybegs, or of Donegal alone. We would welcome fishermen from Dunmore East, Kinsale and anywhere else. It is only natural that we should claim that school. I do not think any other Deputy will gainsay that claim. The establishment of such a school will be of great advantage in helping to develop the fishing industry to the stage that we all hope it will reach.

I should like the Minister to give us some more information with regard to the two free-lance boats which he proposes to purchase. From what he has said it is obvious they will not be based at any particular port, but may be deployed, to use the Minister's own word, to effect and improve landings in such towns and places as may be decided upon. A little more information on the use of these two boats would be welcomed by those of us who are interested in the fishing industry.

I do not want to cast any reflection on Dunmore East or any harbour on the coast; I hope every one of them will prove their worth as time goes on. However, the figure of £415,000 or £416,000 in respect of landings at Killybegs over the past year is not by any means insignificant. That figure is not due to any modern methods of processing or facilities that have been provided at Killybegs. It is mainly due to the fact that the fish landed were of a better quality than those landed at Dunmore East. They were of a different class, if you like. They were prime fish and were marketable at a higher price. That is no reflection on Dunmore but it is to the credit of those conducting the fishing operations at Killybegs that they are capable of bringing into the market when it is much needed the best type of prime fish that is available.

Our landings in Killybegs, in value, if not in volume, are more than double those of any other port along our coast. For that reason I think we can lay just claim to a certain priority in treatment. It is not correct to say we have reached a peak of development where we should not seek any further facilities. We have not reached any such stage. We are not selfish. We do not want to take from any other port what they are entitled to but Deputies will appreciate that as a fishing port develops—over 30 boats are operating at Killybegs at the moment, sometimes many more—further facilities become necessary.

In Killybegs we can point to a number of things of which the Minister is well aware since his recent visit there; certainly An Bord Iascaigh Mhara are well aware of them. In the first place certain facilities are indispensable to a good fishing port. It would be wrong to say to Killybegs: "You have now got what you want. We are moving to other areas." Any port feeling that they are entitled to get special treatment from the Department should first manifest that need by their own hard work. If Dunmore East is doing that I say they are establishing their claim in the proper way. Killybegs has done and is doing that.

We have fishermen in increasing numbers seeking boats. The number of applications has been so great at all times that the board has had difficulty in deciding to whom they should give the boats as they became ready for launching. That has created further problems for the port, and I hope the Minister for Lands will not follow the line of Deputy Lynch's argument here, that once a port has reached a certain stage of development we should move into pastures new and start to make improvements there. Those ports should, firstly, be in a position to justify their claim to what they are seeking and then they would find they would get their due share of anything that was available out of the limited resources in the Fisheries Branch.

We could use millions of pounds in developing fisheries but unfortunately the money is not readily available for that any more than for any other Department. However, as time goes on and as the fishing industry proves itself to be the great industry it can be we will find the Department of Finance more prepared to put into Fisheries the necessary moneys to develop the industry.

I welcome the Minister's innovation in providing for this exploratory boat, and also his decision in relation to the two boats which he hopes to use as free-lance boats. I am not aware as to where they may be docked or where they may be used, but I think the intention is to send them around to supplement the fleet where necessary at different places. The Minister probably will elaborate on that when he is replying.

I also welcome the establishment of a training ship. Finally I make an appeal to the Minister to make available as soon as possible funds for the provision of a proper training school for fishermen along our coasts. I would remind him that we have established the nucleus of such a school in Killybegs and the vocational committee would be most anxious to cooperate with any effort he will make to have that school established at the earliest possible date.

Deputy Brennan makes it quite clear that around Killybegs they are not selfish; yet it seems he is most anxious to get a slice of the financial loaf whenever it may be going. I wish to ask the Minister to clarify a few points. Firstly, in relation to the training ship, the provision of which we support, I should like some information as regards the appointment of the personnel to that training ship. What qualifications will be necessary for the members who may be considered as teachers for the new recruits? How will the appointments be made? Will the appointments be made by open competition? If so, I am convinced that applications from many areas may be of such a high standard that such an arrangement would be a great advantage. Or is it to be confined to the old system against which there is much to be said? We cannot forget the fact that when introducing the main Estimate the Minister made it quite clear that his intention, with which we agree, was to adopt a system whereby those going into the industry in the future would have the advantage of being educated in handling the most up-to-date equipment.

I should like also to get information on the question of trainees. How will they be appointed? Will the selection of trainees be confined to zonal areas such as Dunmore East and Killybegs, or have boys from the coastal areas of the West and South-West chances of being selected as trainees? Many young lads from places other than the two I have mentioned are keenly interested in entering the fishing industry. I believe they should have as good a chance as those in Dunmore East and Killybegs. I should like to get information on that question when the Minister is replying. Deputy J. Brennan has drawn attention to the advances that have been made at Killybegs. Nevertheless, the Minister must consider the other ports on the coast in this matter of trainees.

I welcome this Estimate. I am glad to see that at last a large sum of money is being provided to improve the fishing facilities. When I see a sum like £50,000 being provided, I recall the previous policy of the Fisheries Branch. In the Minister's Department for the past two and a half years are lying plans and specifications for an extension of the pier at Ballycotton.

As the Deputy must be aware, he is confined to what is in the Supplementary Estimate. We may not now have a full-dress debate on the entire question of fisheries.

I think Deputy Corry is right in complaining that Ballycotton is being left out.

Deputy Corry is well able to speak for himself.

My suggestion is that some of the £50,000 provided now should be devoted to the proposed extension of Ballycotton pier, the plans and specifications for which have been with the Department for over two years. Because of the lack of space and shelter for their boats at Ballycotton, many young lads have left the area, some of them going into Irish Shipping Limited. These young lads were all ready and willing to participate in the fishing industry. Not so long ago Deputy Bartley, the Parliamentary Secretary, assured us that Ballycotton would be recognised as one of the deep sea fishing ports. The Cork County Council went to the trouble of employing a consultative engineer to prepare plans for the extension of the pier. I raised the matter about seven or eight months ago, although it was pretty useless doing so then because the bottom had been torn off the bucket and there were only a few coppers left. Now that money is available, we are entitled to know what is being done about these plans and specifications. Have the Department abandoned the policy followed by Deputy Bartley and partly followed by Deputy Oliver Flanagan when he was Parliamentary Secretary? It seems that if you have not a Donegal accent or a Waterford accent you will not get anything done as regards fisheries.

We have competent fishermen in Killybegs.

All we want is some opportunity for training our young lads. The Donegal fellows should be sent down to us and we would soon send them back with Cork accents. We have other such ports, like Schull in West Cork.

In connection with Deputy T. Lynch's pessimistic observations on the future of Dunmore East, I should like to say to Deputy Lynch, and for the benefit of the people of Dunmore East, that I hope I shall be understood and that my word will be accepted, as Minister's words are generally accepted, when I say there never was a project issued by the Department for an ice plant costing £45,000 for Dunmore East. That was a genuine mistake in the Budget statement. If the Deputy accepts that, from the very start, we reckoned for the purposes of Dunmore East's present development, that an ice plant costing £10,000 would be sufficient— it could be extended later on—I think it will relieve him of his embarrassment. Deputy Kenneally also approached me because he felt anxious about the matter, and I explained the position to him. It is quite true that Dunmore East has shown considerable development in recent years and I hope that will continue. There is room for development in a great many ports, but the difficulty is to devise a policy which will satisfy everyone and at the same time be to the economic advantage of the State.

Deputy Lynch referred to the Gaeltacht training scheme and to the possibility that someone training from Helvic might get a boat. That scheme is in progress but the allocation of boats depends entirely on those who are successful as a result of the tests in the examination imposed, and it is impossible for me to state at the present juncture what the results will be. Naturally everything will be done to satisfy the wishes of all Gaeltacht areas as far as possible as all of them were asked to send people for training. I hope there will be a general all-round success, but it is impossible at this stage to see how it will work out.

Deputy Brennan spoke about Killybegs. I am very glad to know that Donegal County Council is showing initiative in desiring to afford educational facilities and I trust in other areas where fishermen require training they will receive similar cooperation.

It is impossible for me to answer Deputy Desmond in regard to the exact nature of the training. It depends on the number of people who are offering themselves but I can assure Deputy Desmond and the House in general that the award of training will be on merit and also that the persons appointed to train will be chosen on merit. That is very essential if we are to get the right kind of people who are prepared to fish and also to fish in deeper waters than hitherto.

The only other point was that made by Deputy Corry in connection with Ballycotton. Deputy Corry is correct in stating that a considerable effort was made by Deputy Bartley as Parliamentary Secretary to convene an inter-departmental committee in an effort to shorten the tedious process of seeking agreement between the Department of Finance, the Board of Works, the Fisheries Branch and the local authority concerned in improving harbour facilities. A certain amount of work was done and then when the financial crisis arose the committee no longer sat and there were quite considerable delays in securing consent from the Board of Works in regard to the development of these harbours. The plans for Ballycotton are lying with the Board of Works at the moment, not in the Department of Fisheries, but consultation between my Department and the Board of Works on certain points must be completed before firm engineering advice can be expected.

If we are to have any progress in fishing development we must have the same kind of organisation as that established by Deputy Bartley when he was Parliamentary Secretary both for considering minor marine works, where the fishing is not of a very advanced order, and also for planning large-scale harbour development in the future. We must make up our minds regarding the selection of seven or eight ports on which to concentrate all the aid we can with the view that they might become major fishing ports. That has been found necessary in a great many other countries where concentration is part of the problem that must be solved. We shall be in touch with the Board of Works in regard to greater co-ordination and we hope to revive in a more up-to-date form the co-ordination arrangements that were made before so that there will be less delays.

I might add that it is not easy to get the consent of county councils on many occasions for harbour development works, to have their contributions agreed and also have their agreement to maintenance of harbour improvements when effected, but in view of the emphasis on production which is accepted by everyone now, we may be able to succeed better in that regard than was the case in the past.

Vote put and agreed to.
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