Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 23 Oct 1957

Vol. 164 No. 1

Defence Forces (Pensions) (Amendment) Scheme, 1957—Motion of Confirmation.

I move:—

That the Defence Forces (Pensions) (Amendment) Scheme, 1957, prepared by the Minister for Defence, with the consent of the Minister for Finance, under Sections 2, 3 and 5 of the Defence Forces (Pensions) Act, 1932 and Section 4 of the Defence Forces (Pensions) (Amendment) Act, 1938, and laid before the House on the 12th day of July, 1957, be confirmed.

The Defence Forces (Pensions) Schemes are made under the authority of the Defence Forces (Pensions) Acts, 1932 to 1957, and deal essentially with service pensions for members of the Army, the Army Nursing Service and the Chaplaincy Service. Section 4 of the Act of 1932 provides that no scheme shall come into force unless and until it has been laid before each House of the Oireachtas and has been confirmed by a resolution of each such House. It is in pursuance of the obligation imposed by that section that the amending scheme is now before the House for confirmation.

The scheme, as Deputies will see, is primarily devoted to granting increases in service pensions of members of the Army, the Army Nursing Service and the Chaplaincy Service, whose services terminated prior to the 1st November, 1952. An Army pay increase took effect as from that date and, in the case of anyone serving at that time who later went on pension, the benefit of that pay increase was passed on to the pension by the Defence Forces (Pensions) (Amendment) Scheme of 1956. The increases in this scheme are confined to persons who went on pension prior to November, 1952. They are being given on the same basis as the increases already provided for in the Pensions (Increase) Act of 1956, and in the Army Pensions Act, 1957, which became law in July last. The increases consist of whichever is the lesser of (a) the appropriate sum as defined in Articles 4 and 6, or (b) the amount which would be payable if the last day of service were the 1st November, 1952, and the rank and service, etc., were the same as on the actual date of discharge.

This scale is the same as that laid down in the Army Pensions Act, 1957, in relation to Army disablement pensions and in the Pensions (Increase) Act, 1956, in relation to other classes of State pensions. The commencing date of the increases is the 1st August, 1956, and they are in fact being paid since that date under the authority of a Supplementary Estimate for pensions passed in this House on the 25th July, 1956. The appropriate sum, I should mention, applies to the rate of pension payable as on the 31st July, 1956, that is, it applies to the full pension where that consists of an earlier rate as later increased.

I should mention also that up to this, a service pension which when taken alone or when aggregated with a disablement pension came to £450 or more did not participate in a cost-of-living increase, such as this is, and, moreover, in the case of a pension or aggregation of pensions so near to £450 that the grant of the appropriate increase would bring them above that figure, the increase was limited to such amount as would bring the total to £450 and no more. That restriction is being departed from now and a person with a pension or aggregation of pensions of £450 or more will get an increase of either 6 per cent. or the amount which would be payable if the date of retirement were 2nd November, 1952, and the rank and service in that rank were the same as on the date of actual discharge. Pensions to be increased, however, are taken as they existed on 31st July, 1956, so that the effect of the previous ceiling of £450 must be taken into account before the rates of increases now authorised are applied.

The increases apply as well to pensions payable to widows and children of deceased officers and the rates of increases are arrived at by the application of the appropriate sum. The increases which I have mentioned are encompassed in Articles 5, 6, 10, 13, 14, 15, 20, 21 and 22. Perhaps what I have said, taken in conjunction with the explanatory memorandum circulated with the scheme, will be sufficient for an understanding of them so I shall now turn to the general matters included in the scheme.

Articles 7, 8, 9 and 18 concern certain officers of the Naval Service who were commissioned on a temporary basis and of whom some have had service since the days of the emergency when what is now the Naval Service was called the Marine Service. In November, 1946, some of the Marine Service officers retired and were paid gratuities under the normal provisions of the schemes in respect of their service up to then. They were then immediately reappointed to commissions in the Naval Service on a temporary basis in order to maintain the officer strength of the service until such time as young officers could be recruited and trained.

Provision to pay these former Marine Service officers gratuities related to the period in which each rank was held but not tied to any specified period of service—as is the case for normal gratuities—was then made in Article 12B of the scheme. Some of these officers have had their service extended from time to time in the interests of the service and are still serving with the result that when they come to retire on age grounds or on the expiry of their present engagements they will have over 12 years' service since 1946. This is the minimum period of service required of a regular officer before he may retire on retired pay, so it has been decided, instead of giving the Naval Service officers in question a gratuity under Article 12B, to make them eligible for an award of retired pay and, if married, a married officer's gratuity in respect of their service since 1946, on the same basis as that applicable to the voluntary retirement of a regular officer. Articles 7, 9 and 18 achieve this.

Apart from these officers, there were others who were commissioned on a temporary basis subsequent to 1946 and who had not served in the Marine Service. They are not entitled to any gratuity under the present terms of Article 12B and Article 8 of the present scheme deals with the matter by bringing them within the terms of Article 12B. It is necessary to make the amendment retrospective to 28th February last in order to cover the case of an officer who retired as from that date. The articles also provides an increased rate of gratuity in respect of service in the rank of Lieutenant-Commander and rates for the first time for the ranks of Ensign and Commander.

Article 12 is a technical measure amending sub-article (6) of Article 20 of the scheme to make clear that the widow of an officer who retired on age grounds with at least 12 years' pensionable service is entitled to a pension under the article. The article has always been construed on this basis but, in order to place the matter beyond question, it is considered desirable to clarify the position by an explicit reference to retirement on age grounds. The article is deemed to operate as from the commencement date of the original scheme.

Article 16 amends the provision governing the method of payment of pensions in order to simplify the calculations.

Article 17 is another technical amendment. The scheme as at present was found not to cover certain service of officers who during the emergency period had continuous service but in varying capacities, such as enlisted soldiers, cadets and Reserve officers. The principle that continuous service in such cases should count as pensionable service is not in question and all this amendment does is to write that principle clearly into the relevant schedule. The amendment is retrospective to cover past cases.

Article 19 makes one change in the Fifth Schedule to the principal scheme which governs the rank by which married officers' gratuities are to be calculated by providing that, where an officer holding the appointment of Chief of Staff, Adjutant-General or Quartermaster-General is compulsorily retired, or an officer holding the appointment of Chief of Staff retires in circumstances to which Article 6 of the prinicpal scheme applies, a married officer's gratuity, if payable, shall be calculated by reference to the rank actually held by him at the date of retirement. At present, by reason of the terms of the Fifth Schedule, the possibility exists that an officer retiring in the circumstances mentioned would have his retired pay calculated on his actual retiring rank and his married officer's gratuity on a lower rank held by him 12 months earlier. This amendment will apply the same rank in the calculation of both retired pay and gratuity.

I now come to the last article— No. 23—which effects an important change in the process of making awards under the scheme. Up to this, the consent of the Minister for Finance has been necessary to each grant made under the scheme. Now, however, that the Defence Forces (Pensions) Act, 1957, has taken this requirement out of the Acts it is possible to follow suit in the schemes and this article in effect will remove the Minister for Finance from the granting machinery and enable grants to be made by me without reference to that Minister. Needless to say this will eliminate the administrative procedures involved in referring each case to the Minister for Finance and will, I am confident, improve the administration in my Department and enable awards to be made more expeditiously to those qualifying under the schemes.

That brings me to the end of my statement on this amending scheme which I commend to the House. If there are any points on which further explanation is required I shall be pleased to deal with them when I am concluding.

I have very few words to say with regard to this scheme except to welcome it as something that is necessary. I want also to congratulate the Minister and his Department upon being able to get approval for the principle that when the Minister for Defence decides that a pension is payable it is paid without reference to the Department of Finance. That is a distinct advantage and will make for easier and better administration. As the Minister pointed out, a great number of the payments are being made already. Therefore, there is no comment that I have to make except that it is an improvement upon existing regulations.

I hope the Minister at some early stage will try to do something to include N.C.O.s and men in a similar scheme. There is a question of gratuities for officers but none whatever for N.C.O.s and men. The time has come when the Minister and the Government should take steps to rectify that position and to see that some gratuity will be given to long-service N.C.O.s and men, who have to obtain homes for themselves on leaving the Army.

I cannot agree with the former Minister for Defence in welcoming this motion at this stage. It is not the point that some of these gratuities or payments have already been made. We must realise that, at a time when it was found essential to reduce food subsidies, to ask the general public to tighten their belts, when we were told we were passing through a crisis as far as finance is concerned, the Minister for Defence blandly comes into this House and tells us that, in regard to the question of pensions, he no longer need go through the agonising performance that he had to go through in the past with the Minister for Finance in order to loosen the purse strings. Deputy MacEoin congratulates the Minister on what he describes as a great achievement.

As an improvement.

Do deputies realise what it is improving? It is allowing officer personnel of the Army to ensure through pressure that they will get what they want. I wonder are similar facilities made available for the Department of Education when it comes to increasing the pensions or improving the conditions of teachers? Is it left to the Minister for Education to decide these matters without consulting the Minister for Finance, who holds the purse strings? When it comes to the Army, or what passes for an Army, the Minister for Defence has full sway.

I should like this question of gratuities and pensions to be postponed until such time as the motion on this Order Paper dealing with defence and all its aspects has been dealt with. The time is overdue for a complete reassessment of defence policy. As we know, out of defence policy will flow various matters, some of which are included for discussion to-day. The great nations of the world at the moment are reducing their defence manpower. Every nation is reducing expenditure on normal weapons of attack and defence. Every nation is directing its manpower into useful production. As far as we are concerned, this Minister for Defence is prepared blandly to move along the old lines, making no effort whatever to reorganise the Defence Forces drastically with a view to reducing State expenditure at a time when the State can ill afford luxuries.

I am absolutely shocked at the idea of an increase in Army pensions at this stage and even at the idea that the matter should be discussed. Deputy MacEoin rightly pointed out that it is rather extraordinary that there should be this emphasis at the moment on ensuring the welfare of the officers, no mention whatever being made of the backbone of the Army, the N.C.O. and private personnel. I can assure the Minister that the rank and file, the N.C.O. and private personnel, are seething with dissatisfaction at the present time at what they consider the glaring injustice that is being done to them due to the fact that they have nobody to represent them. There was the previous experience in this House, when certain provision was made to increase Army pay, instead of that money being distributed fairly and squarely and in justice to all sections of the Army, the senior elements dug into the money up to their elbows and fixed themselves up first.

Now we have another quiet Minister prepared to accept the recommendations of the officer personnel or their representatives. We have not seen any attempt made by this Minister to see that the conditions of the rank and file or the N.C.O.s are improved. At present, as far as I can gather, we have a luxury army in which the officer personnel are prepared to regard the army as a part-time job and engage in outside activities as directors of car sales companies and everything else.

On yesterday's paper there was a photograph of 14 young men receiving degrees, having been trained as radar and signal experts. It took six senior officers from the rank of lieutenant-colonel upwards to confer the appropriate degrees of proficiency on these 14 young men. Is any consideration given to the expense involved in all this bluff and ceremonial parade that is going on in connection with these matters? There was a photograph of six senior officers on yesterday's paper, smiling benignly on 14 young men who had passed their radar tests.

Should they have been vexed with them?

Of course, there was no indication of the number of junior officers present. I am sure it was impossible to publish the photographs of all the junior officers who were present at this ceremony that was held to show the wonderful advance that was made. I am not vexed with the men. I hope that while this Army is functioning, at least, these young men will get a chance of technical training. I am all in favour of that but I do not like the present position, that, when the rate of emigration is greater than it was ever before, when the unemployment figures are higher than they were last year—and God knows they were high enough then—when the poorer sections of the community are finding it impossible to make ends meet and to get a decent meal, a Minister of this Government can blandly walk into this House and propose gratuities and pensions for a luxury defence community.

Just let us look at what it amounts to, so far as the Army personnel is concerned. A major-general with up to 32 years' service has a salary of £1,800 per annum, to say nothing of allowances. He will get a gratuity on retirement of over £1,500 and his pension on discharge at the same time will be over £945. That is for a major-general. If an N.C.O. with 30 years' service is discharged——

That has nothing to do with this scheme, a Cheann Comhairle.

The Ceann Comhairle will decide what is out of order, not the Minister. I am entitled, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, to point out what is missing. If it is possible to give a gratuity of £1,500 and a pension of £945 per annum to a major-general, how is it found impossible to give an N.C.O., a sergeant, a corporal or a sergeant-major even a £10 gratuity after 30 years' service? Do they not do the same job—or is it because we want to keep up this snobocracy which has come into the Army that the private soldier or the N.C.O. is pure dirt? Is he not entitled, when he goes out, to a gratuity which will help his family on in the world outside, just the same as the major-general?

I want to make it quite clear to the House that the highest ranking N.C.O. on his retirement will get a pension which is less than one-third what the lowest ranking officer will get when he retires. The lowest ranking officer will get a minimum gratuity of £590 on going out; but the highest ranking N.C.O.—or the lowest ranking N.C.O., whichever way one may put it—will not get a penny. Yet this Minister comes in and tells us he has the interest of the Army at heart. He has the interest of certain sections of the Army at heart. It is a very significant matter that this Minister is at present courting the officers personnel, for some purpose of his own, while the N.C.O. or the private element is being neglected.

I gave figures in this House before to show that at the moment, with the officer and N.C.O. personnel, there is one to every one and a half men. Surely it is time to changes that state of affairs. I ask the Minister, if he intends to go ahead with this scheme as he has outlined it here, to bring in forthwith one which will give equal facilities to the N.C.O. If he is not prepared to do that, I ask him——

It does give it to the N.C.O.

——to postpone all this until the whole question of defence and all pertaining to it is discussed and thrashed out by a Select Committee of this House.

I pointed out in my opening remarks that this scheme was merely to apply increases which were given to other classes of State pensioner in 1956 to the officers, N.C.O.s and men of the Army. I cannot help it if Deputy McQuillan will not take the trouble to read these documents when they are circulated to him. The fact of the matter is that this scheme applies these increases to N.C.O.s and private soldiers who were discharged before the 1st November, 1952, just the same as it does to officers.

What gratuities are the private soldier and N.C.O. given?

The scheme which is under consideration at the moment is, as I have said, merely one which applies these cost-of-living increases which were given to all classes of State pensioner last year. It does not deal with gratuities at all. It is merely an increase which was given to pensioners to meet the cost of living and it applies to all classes of Army pensioners who were discharged before the 1st November, 1952. There is no question—as Deputy McQuillan seems to think—of any new increases being granted at this stage.

With regard to the question raised by both Deputy MacEoin and Deputy McQuillan, of improving the pensions to former N.C.O.s and privates, that matter is under consideration. I have every sympathy with the view that the present rates are too low, but Deputies will understand, of course, that that is not quite enough—I have to go into it and see what can be done. At the moment the matter is under review. I hope to be in a position before long to announce a decision one way or the other on the claims made on behalf of those pensioners. Since it is still under review, there is nothing further that I can say about that matter at the moment.

Deputy McQuillan also objected to the delegation of the powers of the Minister for Finance, in respect of these matters, to the Minister for Defence. I am still bound by the regulations, so there is no question of it being left to me to decide "off my own bat" as to what amount shall be paid. I am still bound by the same regulations. This merely means that in the case of individual awards I do not have to go to the Minister for Finance with them. It is merely a way of simplifying the administrative process in this respect. On these grounds, I would ask the House to pass this scheme.

Question put and agreed to.
Top
Share