asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce whether, prior to making a decision as to this country's membership of a Free Trade Area, the Government will issue a White Paper for the information of the public.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Free Trade Area.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will make a statement on the present stage of the negotiations for the creation of a Free Trade Area, and, in particular, on the result of the recent meetings in Paris of Ministers at the O.E.E.C.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will state whether the British Government has indicated that, in the event of the creation of a Free Trade Area, the Anglo-Irish Trade Agreements may have to be terminated or revised; and, if not, whether he considers that the termination or revision of the agreements may be necessary as a result of the creation of a Free Trade Area.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will state (a) the number of persons likely to lose employment as a result of the establishment of a Free Trade Area, and (b) the number of persons likely to obtain employment as a result of its establishment.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce whether his Department has carried out any survey of the likely effects on (a) Irish industry, and (b) industrial employment of the establishment of a Free Trade Area, and, if so, if he will make the result of such survey available to members of the Houses of the Oireachtas.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will make a statement on the purpose and outcome of the recent talks between members of the Irish and British Governments.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 together.
The Inter-Governmental Committee which was established by the Council of the O.E.E.C. on 17th October, 1957, to pursue negotiations towards the creation of a European Free Trade Area met in Paris on 14th, 15th and 16th November. A variety of matters pertaining to the Free Trade Area project were discussed by the committee and arrangements were made for further meetings before the end of the month.
The discussions in the committee and in the various subsidiary committees set up by the O.E.E.C. have not yet reached the stage at which it would be possible to indicate precisely the form which the convention establishing the area will take. The recent meetings in Paris have confirmed that there is a general desire on the part of all member countries of the O.E.E.C. to bring to realisation the concept of a Free Trade Area in Europe and to find workable and acceptable solutions of the not inconsiderable problems which have to be solved before this objective can be achieved. Some of these problems have been referred to working parties and groups of experts and the reports of these various bodies will be considered by the Inter-Governmental Committee in due course.
Ireland is represented on the Inter-Governmental Committee and on all the groups which are examining aspects of the Free Trade Area proposals which may affect the country's interest.
As I have already informed the Dáil, the Government intend to continue the practice of circulating memoranda on developments in relation to the Free Trade Area proposals as occasion arises.
As the Deputy will appreciate, it would not be possible to make a realistic assessment of the consequences which the setting up of the area may have for industry and employment, until the nature of the obligations which the country would have to assume on joining the area is known.
When full information on the terms attaching to our membership of the Free Trade Area is available, the House and the country will be fully informed.
The meetings with members of the British Government which were held on 12th and 13th November were arranged for the purpose of discussing the implication for trade between the two countries of the position which had been reached in the negotiations for a Free Trade Area. At those meetings arrangements were made for future consultations on developments in the Free Trade Area negotiations which might have any bearing on the trading relations between this country and Britain. It is not possible to say at this stage whether amendments to the Anglo-Irish Trade Agreements will be involved.
Was any special significance to be attached to the Minister's statement on his return from Paris that it now appears that agricultural commodities will be included in the Free Trade arrangement? Does that indicate a change?
Yes. I expressed what was a personal judgment, having listened to the discussions on that subject at Paris, that agricultural products will be included in the area on the basis of some special régime, that is, on a different basis from industrial products. I think that judgment will prove to be correct, but, of course, the matter is only at the very beginning of the negotiation process.
Are we to take from that that it is the Minister's opinion that the whole concept of the Free Trade Area as distinct from the common market will disappear and that there will be then a common market which will include not only the six senior powers but all the other members of the Free Trade Area as well?
I could not express an opinion on that. The position is that tentative proposals to form a basis for discussion in relation to the possible inclusion of agriculture within the scope of the agreement will be submitted to the committee at some time. The indications are that they are not likely to be submitted before January next.
Will there be any opportunity of discussing this question between the time the Government will find itself required to negotiate and the time of making a decision? Will the Dáil have any opportunity of discussing the general question before that?
We had a discussion here during which I indicated the difficulty of arranging for a Dáil discussion until we had some definite proposition to consider. We are, of course, keeping in close consultation with the representatives of the various economic interests in the country, who are also being kept informed of the progress of negotiations. As soon as even tentative proposals relating to agricultural products are available there will be consultations regarding those also, although I expressed the view that we are still quite a long way from the drafting of an agreement. I see no difficulty in keeping the House informed regarding these proposals when they reach the stage at which they can be regarded as definitive and, of course, if at any time there should be a desire to discuss them here, arrangements will be made for such discussion.
Perhaps the Government will circulate a memorandum relating to the situation.
I understood the Minister to say that the Government would circulate memoranda from time to time.
That is right.
Would the Minister say to whom such memoranda will be circulated and will it be possible for the House to obtain copies?
Yes. The Deputy will understand that a mere factual memorandum would not give a great deal of information. It is only possible at the present time to give fuller information on the basis of some personal judgment as to the significance of events. The circulation of factual memoranda indicating what has happened or what further arrangements for negotiations have been made is no problem at all. I would like to consider more fully what can be circulated arising out of the present meeting when that meeting is concluded. The meeting has only adjourned for the time being. The agenda set for it was not completed and the committee will meet again next week to complete the agenda. At that stage it should be possible to give a statement of the position reached in the course of the negotiations, which will be in complete accordance with the facts, even though I would hesitate at this stage to express a personal judgment on the significance of the events.
Would the Minister arrange then for that factual statement to be circulated at least to Deputies who are interested?
Certainly.
Would the Minister consider if it would be possible to circulate, at least to leaders of Parties, a record of the discussions which have taken place?
There is no record. Discussions are completely informal and without any records being made.
The Minister realises that his announcement that agriculture is likely to be included marks quite a revolutionary development in the whole situation, a development of which we have no information at all. I fully appreciate the difficulty of providing specific information while negotiations are proceeding, but would the Minister consider some means of giving us some information, subject to all the reservations he has mentioned, as to why or how he came to the conclusion that this revolutionary new departure is highly probable.
It was certainly decided to consider the inclusion of agricultural products within the scope of the agreement. There were many reservations as to how that should be done. The position is that the Secretariat of the Organisation is to prepare a series of proposals for consideration at some stage by the Ministerial Committee. The indication was that those proposals would not be available for consideration before January. When these proposals are available, provided people are prepared to accept them solely as proposals prepared as a basis for discussion, it may be that they can be made available to interested Deputies. I make that statement with certain reservations because sometimes the documentation coming from O.E.E.C. is indicated to be of a confidential nature; but, to the extent that we are at liberty to disclose the nature of the proposals, we shall do so.
The Minister, of course, appreciates that we are the only nation in Europe with a trade agreement of a very particular character with the British Government and that our position, therefore, in that respect is unique in Europe and we would want to be mighty circumspect before we identify ourselves with other countries which have not got the same type of agreement and very much resent the fact that they have not got it and would like us to lose it.
I am very conscious of that fact and I hope I shall be circumspect.
In view of the Minister's difficulty and the probable delay and also in view of the size of the lettering with which the Irish Press announced over his statement that this would mean more Government trading, would the Minister be able at this particular moment to throw some light on what is meant by the suggestion that “this will mean more Government trading”?
Again, as the Deputy will have noted, I was expressing a personal opinion that in so far as the likelihood appears to be——
But the Minister is not an inter-Party Government!
I was expressing a pensonal opinion of what was happening at Paris, not in the Government. I was expressing the view that in so far as the idea seems to be developing of having a controlled market in agricultural products rather than free trade, it was likely that that would involve some extension of Government trading.
Did the Minister's personal opinion include more Government trading by the Irish Government as well as other Governments?
Oh, no. We have taken no final decision at all upon our attitude either to the main proposal or to any specific proposal relating to agricultural products. When we receive proposals we will consider them and decide whether we should support, oppose or seek to amend them. Certainly no decision has been taken, as far as we are concerned, upon the form of agreement in relation to agricultural products that we would accept. We have not even got the tentative proposals.