Deputy Seán Brady has given notice of his intention to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of Question No. 19 on today's Order Paper.
Committee on Finance. - Adjournment Debate—Flooding in Dublin Areas.
At the outset, I wish to impress upon the Minister the gravity of the situation which has arisen in the Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown area, as a result of flooding that has occurred frequently, especially during the last 12 months. This flooding has caused serious damage and loss of property to numerous people in the constituency. I am informed that when some of these people sought redress from the local authorities they were told that they had no responsibility, and in some cases their letters did not receive even an acknowledgment.
During the recent very severe flooding I heard it stated that the people who were most seriously affected were told by somebody that nothing could be done for them; that the Minister for Local Government refused to allow the local authorities to spend rates on this work and that the Government refused to make a grant to relieve their distress. I want the Minister to realise that while these officials are apparently concerned to pass on the responsibility to somebody else, the people in these districts are suffering very serious hardship, so serious that it is very difficult for one to describe it.
My own belief, having gone through these areas several times, is that engineers, surveyors and other officials, blundered very seriously when they permitted development on these lands which were known to be subject to flooding. These lands formerly became an extensive lake during winter periods. When houses and roads were constructed naturally an extra strain was placed upon the small rivers and the water could not be carried off quickly enough during heavy rains. It is quite obvious that these rivers should have been attended to before housing development was permitted. Not only was that not done but the rivers were neglected and even fallen trees were not removed. Worse still, the course of the rivers was diverted and in many cases rivers are now running at a right angle. In many instances the river was piped, and in most places that I have examined, the pipes are totally inadequate to take the extra water that flows through these rivers as a result of the building development.
Again, where rivers pass under roads, a most extraordinary thing has been introduced. The river or the open space, was utilised for the service pipes—gas mains and water mains— with the result that these form a grill to catch branches and other obstacles that are carried down by the water, thus adding to the danger of flooding in these places. Again, it is observed that several pipes that are supposed to take the surface water during flood time enter the stream or river at right angles and therefore cause an extra break in the flow of the water. One would have imagined that the engineers would have at least taken the trouble to put bends in those pipes so that the water would enter with the flow of the river.
The fact that most of these houses carried grants, in many cases both Government and local authority grants would lead one to expect that they would have been built under the closest supervision. Instead of that, we find most glaring defects, such as, in some cases, downpipes from a number of houses delivering the drainage off roofs, not into a shore, but on to the ground.
Let me deal now, very briefly, with the actual flooding that took place recently. As I have said, this flooding has occurred several times within the last 12 months. In previous cases it was observed that some rooms were flooded to a depth of nine, or perhaps 12 inches, doing considerable damage to carpets, flooring and furniture. During the recent flooding, however, the damage was of a much more serious nature. Rooms in some cases were flooded to a depth of four feet. The water entered through the bedroom windows at the back, and at the same time, the flood water was entering the front of the house from the roadway. In one case there were seven young children in the house. In the next house there were five. Fortunately the water had disconnected both gas and electricity, or there might have been very serious consequences, particularly from electric shock.
In some cases, the houses were divided into an upper and lower flat, and the people in the lower flats were in grave danger of drowning. In one case, there were four young children; in another case there was an elderly invalid. She was rescued by the people. In the midst of their own distress, they remembered this old lady. In order to rescue her from the floods, they had to burst in a partition and take her out into the upper storey of the house. To add to the plight of the people, this happened during the early hours of the morning and, as I have said, there was no light and, worse still, it was discovered that not only was there flood water in the houses, but that the sewers had delivered sewage widespread around the place.
I hope that in this brief statement I have given the Minister sufficient information to convince him of the necessity of sending a competent person to investigate this whole problem. I am convinced that the major portion at least of this flooding was caused through the negligence of some officials. I urge the Minister to do everything possible to find out who is responsible and to see to it that the matter is remedied as soon as possible. Many people have suffered severe loss; others have lost everything they possessed. I hope the Minister will not rest until he investigates the matter to satisfy himself as to where the responsibility lies.
In the short time available to me, I should like to impress upon the Minister the gravity of the problem raised in the Parliamentary Questions put to him to-day and in the discussion to-night. Unless one saw what happened, it is not possible to believe that such serious flooding could have occurred in what are generally regarded as developed areas. This flooding is peculiar to these areas because of their close proximity to the mountains. The heavy rainfall experienced in the past few months has aggravated a problem already liable to cause not merely loss but suffering, and in fact on this occasion it was providential that there was not a loss of life.
I understand that the Dun Laoghaire Corporation and the county council have submitted a scheme to the Minister's Department. I would urge that the Minister, in collaboration with his own officials and the officials of these local authorities, would endeavour to get a scheme that will provide a remedy. Nobody expects abnormal flooding in certain circumstances not to cause trouble, and, maybe, some damage; but in these areas we have mentioned, this problem is a recurrent one. It is recurrent for a number of reasons. One is the fact I have already mentioned: their close proximity to the mountains. The out-fall flows on to the lower lands in which the whole constituency is situated, coming from the higher range of mountains in proximity to the area.
The other reason is that a number of these areas have been rapidly developed for building. They have been developed from conditions which were formerly rural and they are without the services one normally associates with developed urban areas. As the Minister will understand from what Deputy Brady said, these streams became choked and, in addition, the rainfall and surface water in many cases emptied into the streams, aggravating the existing normal flow of these streams when there is a flood. At the same time, some of the sewage disposal pipes became flooded and the sewage erupted through the pipes and flooded into the gardens and, in some cases, into the houses.
I appreciate the problem of dealing with this matter quickly and understand the many questions that have to be considered, but I strongly urge on the Minister to do, in collaboration with the local authorities concerned, two things: one, to provide whatever speedy remedy is possible by means of cleaning the rivers and removing debris from them, examining, wherever possible, the drainage and sewage pipes and, secondly, the more important thing, to approve, or if necessary, in consultation with the local authorities concerned, to have a scheme provided which will ensure, as far as engineering and technical skill are concerned, a proper system of drainage for this entire area.
The Minister himself saw the new scheme in Dun Laoghaire which deals with part of the area. Within the past ten or 15 years, this whole area has been developed for building at a greater rate than the existing services were able to deal with. This problem is very serious. I need not mention the areas to the Minister any more. He is aware that almost all of the constituency has an area or areas in the places mentioned badly affected by flooding. The people are living in constant fear because of the unprecedented rainfall there which, according to the meteorological office figures, was the heaviest rainfall in the country in recent weeks. I should be glad if the Minister would give the matter his urgent attention.
I should like to associate myself with all Deputy Brady and Deputy Cosgrave have said.
At the outset, I should say I am aware from the Press reports of the great hardship and inconvenience that have been caused in the areas just mentioned, in and around Dún Laoghaire and Rathdown, Dundrum, Churchtown and these other places. I should like to assure the House, the Deputies concerned and the residents of those areas that I am fully alive to the problem that has been facing them and to the hardships they have undergone recently as a result of the flooding which, to no small degree, has been accentuated by the unusually heavy rainfall we experienced last month.
It is true that flooding has been recurring in increased volume and a number of times over the past few years. I take it that this, apart altogether from abnormal rainfall, has been brought about by the rapid development that has taken place and the rapid building up of these areas that has gone on in the past. I should like at this stage to amend what I said in reply to the questions earlier to-day when I stated that we in the Department had not received any proposals to deal with this problem. I should like to amend that and let the House know that to-day, some few hours before I answered that question, plans and proposals were received in my Department. As a result of the receipt of those plans, we are in a position now to initiate discussions which have been in the mind of the Department for some time, between the technical advisers, the consultant, the corporation and our own people in the Department. This discussion we hope to bring about next week, with a view to trying to formulate what may be a proper and a comprehensive plan for the relief of the flooding mentioned here to-night.
I think it should be said that the suggestion made by Deputy Brady—in regard to the Department and the Minister for Local Government being responsible for holding up any scheme to relieve this problem—is entirely untrue. The position has been that, over the years, since first a consultant was appointed, we have been awaiting firm proposals from the consultant or, through the consultant, from the corporation. At no time until now, have we had what we could regard as concrete proposals; and until we got these proposals, there could be no question that the Department should enter into the detailed planning of a job which, in the main, is the responsibility of the local authority.
For some years prior to 1957, the matter was being dealt with, but not in a very expeditious manner. It was not being treated as a very urgent problem. While a consultant was making various suggestions and various reports, the local authorities concerned did not seem—at any rate, as far as the records of my Department are concerned—to get down to the job as if it were a job for them at all. Since they got around to the idea that this is, in the first instance, a job for local authorities, I think much more progress has been made. This progress has culminated in some firm basis of proposals having been received in my Department to-day.
The difficulty of the terrain in this area—Dún Laoghaire—Rathdown, Dundrum and, to a lesser degree, the Churchtown area—in the case of drainage, is well known to the Deputies from the constituency—and indeed I suppose to many others. I think it is fairly plain at this early stage that the remedy will not be of a minor character, that it cannot be such, and that it is more likely to be of a comprehensive drainage nature. That may be rather discouraging, of course, to those who have suffered in the recent past; but, from the point of view of the Department, we will have to look at the proposition with a rather longer term view than would be, possibly, the popular view just now. We must try to get together with the various officials and technicians and consultants, and hammer out a proper, comprehensive scheme which will not only remedy the worst of the flooded areas that we now know of but which will prevent any flooding in other areas in the surrounding neighbourhood.
I can only say that, so far as my Department, my officials and myself are concerned, we shall be only too willing to co-operate in every possible manner to bring about the early initiation of a proper and planned scheme for the relief of this flooding, which has caused all this hardship. To the people who would like to see an immediate remedy, I can only say again that we will bring it to the attention of the local authorities in so far as they can do anything about keeping the existing streams clear. If foundation there is in the allegation that these streams are allowed to become blocked up by fallen trees and other debris, then we will bring that allegation and that complaint to their notice. I am sure they, on their part, will make every effort to make the best use possible of the existing drainage. Then we can look forward to getting a proper scheme going in the not too distant future. I hope it will result in relieving the flooding in this and adjoining areas in the years to come.
We are obliged to the Minister.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.55 p.m. until 10.30 a.m on Thursday, 3rd July, 1958.