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Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 12 Dec 1958

Vol. 171 No. 15

Private Members' Business. - Personal Explanation by Minister.

Last night, after my speech on the Bill before the House, a statement of mine was challenged by Deputy Mulcahy. I quote from today's report in the Irish Independent. In fact, a Cheann Comhairle, I intend to stick to quotations from the Irish Independent, which might be more acceptable to the Deputies on the opposite benches. Deputy General Mulcahy is reported as having said:—

"...that a matter personal to him had been introduced by Mr. Moran. He (General Mulcahy) had never quibbled on important matters regarding the economy or security of the country and the importance of British military strength, but the Minister, for some obscure purpose, had put words into his mouth that he had proposed an offensive or defensive alliance——"

Offensive and defensive.

I am quoting the Deputy's own paper. The quotation goes on:—

"——between this country and Britain.

"‘I deny,' said General Mulcahy, ‘that any such statement was ever made by me. The Minister has indicated that on some suitable occasion he will produce the reference. I now ask him when he proposes to produce it.'"

I replied, Sir, that I proposed to produce it today. I want to quote again from a paper I assume is acceptable to Deputy General Mulcahy and his colleagues, the Irish Independent. In banner headlines in this paper there is——

November 22nd, 1944. The headlines are "Defence Pact with Britain After War: Essential to Security—General Mulcahy." The quotation is as follows:—

"The advisability of entering into a defensive military agreement with Britain was stressed by General Mulcahy, T.D., Leader of the Party, at the Fine Gael Árd-Fheis, which opened at the Mansion House, Dublin, yesterday. He asked the Party to consider, in the months that lay immediately ahead, whether such a step was not the key to national security, unity and prosperity. The question, he added, must be approached from the point of view of leading the national thought of all Parties along the road which the nation must travel if they were to be true to their tradition in a world which might have to struggle for freedom, or if, in a dangerous world, the Irish people were to become strong and happy."

Further down in the same paper, General Mulcahy is reported as having said:—

"A necessary preliminary to entry into any world combination for military security should be discussions and decisions with Britain for mutual defence."

General Mulcahy, again speaking at a Fine Gael Árd-Fheis, is reported in the Irish Independent of Wednesday, 6th February, 1946, as expressing these views:—

"Experience must convince them, General Mulcahy said, that Ireland's political liberties, military security and hope of ending Partition were firmly bound up with membership of the British Commonwealth."

Those are the references to which I referred last night. Those statements have been published in the Irish Independent. The Deputy's memory must be very much in error because in 1944 the Fine Gael Party got out a special pamphlet on the same issue of mutual security pacts——

This is a quotation——

(Interruptions.)

I am anxious to hear the Minister in full on this. What the Minister has quoted here from the Irish Independent will stand examination and will stand on its own merits. The Minister says he is quoting from my paper. Unfortunately, I am not able to quote from his. But I shall quote from the Irish Times and Irish Independent—they are both of the one word. This is the report of the Minister's speech in the Irish Times and the Irish Independent of to-day:—

"He (Mr. Moran) remembered hearing General Mulcahy before the war advocating in the House that we should have an offensive and defensive alliance with Britain.

General Mulcahy (Fine Gael): You never heard anything of the sort. Produce the quotation."

The question I raised yesterday, and the question I raise today, is the statement the Minister made here yesterday that he remembered hearing Deputy Mulcahy before the war advocating in this House that we should have an offensive and defensive alliance with Britain.

The Deputy alleged——

A Deputy

Sit down.

(Interruptions.)

What does the Deputy mean——

(Interruptions.)

Sir, I have nothing more to say at the moment and I shall gladly and patiently listen to anything more that the Minister has to say.

The incident is closed, as far as the Chair is concerned.

He was caught out.

Withdraw.

(Interruptions.)

You have travelled a long way from the Commonwealth Party.

Bring the battering ram to Bohola.

(Interruptions.)

Will Deputies please allow the business of th House to go on? I am calling the ne item.

The Minister for External Affairs said he saw the extract. Has the Minister for External Affairs anything to say now before the incident is closed?

You cannot bluff your way out.

Surely the Minister should withdraw.

The incident is closed.

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