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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 9 Jul 1959

Vol. 176 No. 7

Industrial Credit (Amendment) Bill, 1959—Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time. Deputies will, no doubt, recall that on the Second Stage of the Industrial Credit (Amendment) Bill, 1958, I indicated the Government's determination to ensure that the resources of the Industrial Credit Company, Limited, would be ample to meet all reasonable requirements arising out of the financing of industry. On that occasion, I assured industrialists that they could proceed with their plans in the knowledge that no industrial project with worthwhile prospects, particularly export prospects, need be frustrated by lack of capital. The policy of allowing no soundly-based industrial project to fail, or to be prevented from starting, solely through lack of capital, is confirmed further in the Programme for Economic Expansion.

As shown in Appendix II to the White Paper, the Programme envisages the provision by the Industrial Credit Company of credit for industry amounting to £20 million in the years 1959-60 to 1963-64. It is visualised that the company's capital expenditure will be at the rate of £3½ million in each of the years 1959-60 and 1960-61, £4 million per annum in 1961-62 and 1962-63, and as much as £5 million in 1963-64. Thus, the company faces a much enlarged scale of activities over the next five years as compared with its previous level of operations. In 1958-59 its capital expenditure amounted to £2.8 million and this included a funding of existing overdrafts to the extent of £1.4 million.

The enhanced facilities now proposed, apart from assisting in the setting up of new industries, are intended to encourage the replacement of old machinery by up-to-date plant, the installation of additional machinery and, generally, the expansion and modernisation of industry. The company's need for additional capital and borrowing is increased, too, by its decision to provide hire purchase facilities for industrial plant and equipment on attractive terms. It is now prepared to finance up to 75 per cent. of the cost of suitable new plant and machinery in this way.

The implementation of the policy set out in paragraph 98 of the Programme for Economic Expansion now justifies, in the light of the Company's existing financial resources, the introduction of amending legislation to provide it with sufficient funds for the purposes of industrial expansion.

The capital available to the Industrial Credit Company consists of an authorised share capital of £5 million and loan capital that may be raised under guarantee of the Minister for Finance within a statutory limit of £5 million. The company could also raise further loan capital by means of debentures but in practice debentures would, in present circumstances, require to be backed by a State guarantee. Up to the present, £3 million worth of share capital has been issued and paid up and is held almost entirely by the Minister for Finance. In addition, a loan of £1.8 million has been made by the banks under State guarantee. This makes a total of £4.8 million which has already been invested in Irish industry.

A further issue of share capital to the value of £250,000 is in the process of being arranged. These shares will also be taken up by the Minister for Finance and the money issued in payment for them will be used to meet maturing commitments in respect of various projects. The resources remaining available to the company will thus consist of £1.75 million of unissued share capital and the possibility of raising £3.2 million under State guarantee — a total of just under £5 million. Against this, it already has commitments extending over the next five years amounting to more than £7 million. Access to additional capital is, therefore, necessary to enable the Company to play its due part in economic expansion in the coming years.

The main purpose of the Bill is to allow of the enlargement of the company's resources by £15 million. This, with the balance of about £5 million which the company is already free to raise, would make up the total of £20 million forecast for the company in the Programme for Economic Expansion. It is proposed that the enlargement be effected by increasing the authorised share capital from £5 million to £10 million — an increase of £5 million— and by increasing the Company's effective borrowing powers from £5 million to £15 million — an increase of £10 million. The increase in the company's borrowing powers involves enabling the Minister for Finance to guarantee, when necessary, such borrowings up to £15 million instead of up to £5 million as at present.

Further, as loan capital may not always be readily available from banks and other institutions as and when required, it is proposed in the Bill to enable the Minister for Finance to make loans to the Company on such terms and conditions as to interest and repayment as he may stipulate. It is intended, however, that such advances together with any sums borrowed by the company from other sources should not at any time exceed the proposed overall limit of the Company's borrowing powers, namely £15 million.

The new legislation also affords an opportunity to effect some minor improvements in the existing law relating to the administration of the Industrial Credit Company. These are effected in Section 6 (1) and (2) of the Bill.

The Bill is intended to place in the company's hands the means of accelerating future industrial progress. The availability of necessary capital is, of course, only a beginning. The capital must be wisely invested: this requires co-operation, initiative and enterprise from industrial promoters and workers alike. It can then be expected to fructify and yield a continuing return of goods for sale at home and abroad, of jobs for the workers and profits for the promoters.

The latest reports from the Industrial Credit Company indicate that the policy of providing adequate funds for industry is already bearing fruit. This, indeed, may be gathered from the extent of the provision considered necessary for 1959-60 — £3½ million. The company's activities have expanded appreciably and there has been an upsurge in demand for industrial credit. It is clear that the better services being provided are welcomed and appreciated by industrialists, and I feel that we can safely look forward to further expansion. I should, perhaps, say that the facilities provided are available not only for public manufacturing and processing companies but also for private companies, partnerships and individuals engaged, or proposing to engage, in manufacturing activity. Enterprises large and small are, therefore, being catered for.

The Board and staff of the Industrial Credit Company have a heavy task before them. They are in one of the key positions in the drive forward on the industrial front. The expansion of activities which has taken place, and the greater expansion to which we look forward, will necessarily give rise to many difficulties and problems. I am sure Deputies will wish the company every success in its efforts on which so much depends.

The legislation now proposed, if enacted, will take us a step further in the development of our country. I hope the step will prove to be a significant one. The Bill will, I trust, commend itself to the House.

I should like a little more detail as to what was covered before in relation to the existing capital and the finances provided by the Industrial Credit Company. What is envisaged in the future in terms of production projects, in terms of persons employed and in terms, per capita, of employed capital in the the business? Let me say straight away that, in relation to the present Chairman of the Industrial Credit Company, I think the country is fortunate in having his ability, his efficiency and his boundless energy, I think, too, that the company has been considerably strengthened by the accretion to it of Dr. Mill, of Messrs. Guinness, and Mr. Thompson, of Cork. I say that because I want to make it clear that the criticisms I have to make are criticisms of a system rather than criticisms of a personnel.

I am not a bit happy about the manner in which the Minister proposes in future to deal with industrial credit. I do not know of any case in respect of which industrial credit was needed for any worthwhile project and that credit was not forthcoming. With the resources of the Department behind him, can the Minister produce any single instance where a worthwhile project would have got ahead, had finances been made available to it, and in which finance was not made available to it? I agree there may be some necessity for streamlining the method by which industrial financial facilities can be made available, but I am not aware of any project which has not started production because of lack of finance.

Admittedly, there has been a tendency up to this to finance far too many industrial projects by bank loan rather than by equity share capital. That has been the case not merely in relation to initial projects but also in relation to the expansion of existing projects. Whether it was as desirable a method as possible of financing the projects, it was certainly there as a method and I have yet to hear of a soundly based industrial project that did not go ahead because of the lack of finance. I do not think the Minister will find in the records of his Department or in the records of the Industrial Credit Company any such project. While, therefore, it is right and proper that the Minister should make the case that he has made that there will be no such circumstance in future, it is equally right to make it clear that there has been no such case in the past.

This Bill is a sequel to paragraphs 8 and 9 of Chapter 16, which deals generally with industry, of the booklet Economic Development. We see in that that the £1.8 million to which the Minister referred, which was being provided by the commercial banks by way of guaranteed loan stock to the Industrial Credit Company was to be used by the company largely in redeeming existing overdrafts and directly financing liabilities under existing bank guarantees. There is, therefore, nothing involved in that, in any shape, of new financing. It is merely transferring finance that has already been provided in one form to another form and that transference will not, of course, affect in any way existing industrial production, nor will the financing of liabilities under existing bank guarantees involve any new industrial production. It is merely taking out of one pocket of the banks the moneys which they have provided under guarantee and providing it now, not under guarantee of the individual industry, but under the loan stock guarantee of the Industrial Credit Company. If we are to be realistic, therefore, in considering the problem, we can completely disregard the transference of funds in that way.

What really perturbs me, however, is the suggestion that the Industrial Credit Company was going to provide an unlimited, or a virtually unlimited, guarantee in one or two big cases. I do not think it right that the resources of the State should be pledged by the Industrial Credit Company to the extent that they have been pledged. Every effort that has been made to ascertain the extent to which the resources of the State have been pledged in connection with the Verholme Dockyard proposal in Cork has failed to get any light shed on the proposals. We are all anxious to ensure that there would be proposals of that sort put into operation, provided we were satisfied that they were proposals that would fructify to the common good in the long run.

The House and the country are entitled to know the extent to which the resources of the State are being pledged when it comes to an operation of that size. I do not like a system under which the Industrial Credit Company, a State-sponsored company, can give guarantees, be they called guarantees or be they called umbrellas, of a size far and away in excess of the sum that is actually being provided by the Minister for Finance of the day without the Minister for Finance accepting the responsibility for that guarantee.

If there is to be a guarantee given to anybody — and I use "anybody" in the corporate sense of the term — for a matter of somewhere between £3,000,000 and £5,000,000, then I think that, once the negotiations have been concluded in relation to that guarantee, this House and the country are entitled to be told that the national resources have been pledged by a guarantee to that amount. I do not think it right that a State-sponsored body of the sort which we are now discussing can, by a contingent guarantee, not merely pledge its own capital but, in effect, also pledge the Minister of the day to come to its assistance in relation to such a guarantee. Nobody would visualise for one second that if the Industrial Credit Company had given a guarantee which its own funds were unable to fulfil, the resources of the State would not be utilised to ensure that the word of the Industrial Credit Company would be fulfilled. If, therefore, it is to operate by guarantee, it should only so operate by guarantee within specific limits and figures set by the person who will have ultimately to pay the piper if anything goes wrong and that will be whoever is Minister for Finance at the time.

As the law stands at present, the present Taoiseach particularly, the Government and the Minister for Finance, take advantage of every opportunity to stress that the Industrial Credit Company is operating aside and apart from Government decision, that it is that company, and not the Government, that decides what financial support, and the extent of the financial support, will be given to different institutions and projects. There may be some argument for that approach in relation to actual cash advanced or to be advanced out of the existing resources of the company. The Minister for Finance has made available to the company, or has undertaken to make available to the company, certain actual cash resources. In the detailed application of those resources, I can see the case that it is for the company and the directors of the company to allot those resources but, when it comes to a big and wide guarantee over and above and in excess of the amount that has been made available by the Minister for Finance, it seems to me that we are travelling into an entirely different sphere and that the State is being committed without those who are responsible from time to time for guiding the State being consulted and having acceptance of the contingent liability which may be thrown on the State in future.

That principle appears to me to be utterly and entirely wrong, quite indefensible. The matter is one that should be dealt with by guarantee of that sort, being administratively more easy than the system of trade loan guarantee, but at the same time it should be clear that it is being done by the people who will ultimately have to pay the piper, that is to say the State, and not by a board or company which is being deliberately divorced by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance from the State administration. I move the adjournment of the debate.

Debate adjourned.
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