Vol. 181 No. 11
I move:—
That a sum not exceeding £500 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1961, for Salaries and other Expenses in connection with Wireless Broadcasting (No. 45 of 1926), including Public Concerts.
Is the arrangement that in the special problem confronting us in this matter it has been agreed, as quite an exceptional step, that we shall take the Supplementary Estimate in conjunction with the main Estimate?
That is correct. I propose to take both Vote 50 and the Supplementary Estimate for Vote 49 together. I should like to say that I fully appreciate the co-operation given by the other side of the House in this unprecedented step.
Does the Minister anticipate it will take very long?
We should finish before 10.30.
I propose to take the token Vote for Wireless Broadcasting and the Supplementary Vote for Posts and Telegraphs together. Wireless Broadcasting, as a Government service, is, as Deputies are aware, coming to an end and a new Authority, Radio Éireann, will, in accordance with the Broadcasting Authority Act, 1960, be established for the purpose of providing a national television and sound broadcasting service.
The separate Vote for Wireless Broadcasting will disappear. The grants-in-aid payable to the new Authority will be borne on the Vote for Posts and Telegraphs: the general practice is to include such grants-in-aid in the vote of the paying Department.
The Estimate for Wireless Broadcasting in the printed volume of Estimates provided for approximately four months' expenditure, and amounted to one third of last year's provision. The intention was to ensure that the service could be carried on until such time as the Oireachtas had taken a decision on the Broadcasting Authority Bill. The amount sought, except for £500, was granted in the Vote on Account.
A vote of £500 is now being taken to enable Deputies to discuss matters connected with the Wireless Broadcasting service as at present constituted. If the new Authority is established on the 1st June, as at present intended. there will be a surrender back to the Exchequer in respect of two of the four months covered by the Vote on Account. In settling the grants-in-aid for the new Authority and the additional provision made for Radio Éireann in the Budget, allowance was made for such a saving.
The Supplementary Estimate of £479,000 for the Department of Posts and Telegraphs is to provide for grants-in-aid to Radio Éireann under the Broadcasting Authority Act, 1960, and for certain other expenditure arising out of the arrangements being made under that Act or related to them.
It is intended that Radio Éireann will be established as the broadcasting authority on the 1st June next. The grants in these subheads are in aid of the expenses of sound broadcasting for the remainder of the year. It is not expected that any appreciable expenditure, other than capital, including working capital, expenditure will arise on television this year.
Deputies will remember that in the Broadcasting Authority Act, it was provided that the Authority might be paid in respect of each of the five consecutive financial years beginning with that in which the Authority was established—
(a)a grant equal to the total of the receipts in that year from broadcasting licence fees, less the expenses incurred in collecting those fees or in preventing interference with reception: and
(b)a further grant, subject to a limit of £500,000 for the five years.
Under Subhead P.I. a grant of £270,000 equivalent to the estimated net receipts from broadcasting licence fees for ten months is proposed. Under Subhead P.2 an additional grant of £145,000 is proposed. This latter amount is greater than a strictly proportional division of the total of £500,000 mentioned in the Act would warrant, but we believe that the amount of the grant can be progressively decreased. The present intention is that, on balance, the same amount will be made available for sound broadcasting this year as in the last two years. Costs of broadcasting have, however, been rising and it will be necessary for the new Authority to examine its financial position at an early date.
The Authority will, of course, be under statutory obligation to conduct its affairs so that its services will become self-supporting as soon as possible, and to this end it will be required to submit accounts in a form which will show clearly its total revenue and expenditure for each year. This will involve taking account of such charges as interest on capital and depreciation which have not appeared in the accounts of Radio Éireann hitherto. When the Authority has had time to examine its finances—present and prospective—on this commercial account basis, the questions of increasing the sound licence fee of 17s. 6d. and of introducing a television licence fee will be dealt with. As I have pointed out elsewhere, the 17s. 6d. fee which has been in operation since 1953 is one of the lowest of its kind in Europe and it will have to be increased if the considerable element of subsidy in the present Estimates is to be reduced and eventually eliminated. Any extra revenue from increased licence fees would not of course be made available to the Authority except by Vote.
As Deputies can see from the footnote the accounts of the Authority will be audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General and laid before the Oireachtas.
Although Radio Éireann will on the establishment day take over the operation of the sound broadcasting system and the control of the staff engaged on it, it will not be possible to arrange for the definitive transfer of all the staff for quite some time afterwards. Many of them, particularly on the administrative and engineering sides, are established civil servants. They will have to be given an opportunity to decide whether they wish to remain with the new Authority and, similarly, the Authority will have to have an opportunity to decide whether it wishes to retain them. In order to safeguard their present Civil Service status and, particularly, any superannuation benefits they might be eligible for, it is essential that they should continue to be paid out of voted moneys until they are formally transferred. Accordingly, it is proposed to bear their salaries and wages on the Vote for Posts and Telegraphs during the interim period and to regard them as on loan from my Department to the new Authority.
It is assumed that it may take up to ten months to complete the transfer. The provision under P.3 is to cover those salaries and allowances. The amount paid will, however, be recovered from the Authority, together with superannuation contributions in the case of established staff. The amounts recovered will be brought to account as an appropriation-in-aid under Subhead T.15. P.3 and T.15 are therefore largely self-balancing entries but the arrangement is of importance to the staff.
As I explained to Deputies in March in connection with another Supplementary Estimate, I set up a small advisory committee in September last to advise and to assist me in the preliminary arrangements for the introduction of television. It had originally been hoped that the new Authority would be in a position to take over from the committee at the beginning of this year and accordingly no provision was made for its expenses in the main Estimate. As there is doubt whether expenditure on the committee would come within the ambit of the main Vote, the matter is being specifically dealt with in this Supplementary Estimate. The committee will continue in existence up to the 1st June. Its members do not receive remuneration for their work but are paid travelling and subsistence expenses. The provision is also to cover miscellaneous expenditure on technical advice, occasional entertainment, etc., arising out of the work of the committee.
In Part II of the Third Schedule to the Broadcasting Authority Act, it was provided that advisory committees might be appointed in connection with the making of regulations about interference with wireless telegraphy receiption and related matters. It is proposed to appoint such committees during the year—no details have been decided on yet—and as again there is doubt whether expenditure on the committees would come within the ambit of the main Vote, the matter is being specifically covered.
This is, in effect, an accounting matter. When the main Estimate was being prepared, the intention then was to deduct from the receipts from broadcasting licence fees the expenses my Department will incur on the collection of the revenue and on the prevention of interference, etc., and to bring the amount to the credit of the Vote as an appropriation-in-aid. It has since been decided that the entire receipts should be paid in to the Exchequer. Accordingly, the amount of the appropriations-in-aid in the main Estimate has to be reduced by a deduction in this Supplementary Estimate.
I do not think that it is necessary for me to give an account to the House of the operations of broadcasting last year. During the course of the Broadcasting Authority Bill through the Oireachtas, the members of both Houses had an opportunity of discussing broadcasting in all its aspects, and the existing sound broadcasting service was, in fact, very fully discussed. As you know, the Irish broadcasting service was set up as a direct State responsibility in 1926 and has been operated as a State service since then. That phase is now coming to an end and we are about to hand over the service to a statutory body, the membership of which has been recently announced.
The time is therefore opportune for me to say that the new Broadcasting Authority will take over an organisation in good working shape which by and large has served the nation well. It has been criticised from time to time for not doing things which it could not have done because of lack of finance or for some other good reason. It has also been criticised for maintaining cultural standards, for not concentrating on the kind of programme that appeal to teenagers and mass audiences and for carrying out its responsibility in connection with the national language policy of the State. In surrendering my direct responsibility for programme policy, I feel that I should endorse the stand taken by Radio Éireann in these matters. I might also say that Radio Éireann has never had to be accused of deviating from strict standards of morality and good taste. That is an achievement of which the service can be proud.
The Authority's most urgent task will be to start and extend the proposed television service. As I have mentioned before, certain preliminary steps have been taken with the advice of the Television Advisory Committee towards shortening the delay which would otherwise occur in starting the service. The contract for the transmitter installations at Kippure has been placed; a certain amount of work has been done on the planning of the Dublin studio centre and the acquisition of sites for the four other main transmitting stations is in hand by the Commissioners of Public Works. It will now rest with the Authority to carry on from there. The funds for this work, which is work of a capital nature, are not provided for in the Estimate now before the House. They will be met from advances for capital purposes provided for in Section 23 of the Broadcasting Authority Act, 1960. I am sure that the House will appreciate that the Authority faces a formidable task and in the initial years it will have the sympathetic understanding of the House and of the country in carrying it out. It will have to build up from the ground not alone the physical assets of a television service but an organisation of staff and talent where none exists at present. It will have to put out a service of programmes in the face of intense competition over a large part of the country from two of the most powerful television and broadcasting organisations in the world. If too much is not expected at once I have every confidence that within a few years, the Authority will provide a national service which will have achieved a considerable degree of success. I offer the Authority personally, and I am confident I can do so on behalf of this House, every good wish in its heavy task.
I would join with the Minister in wishing the new Authority every success in the difficult task before them. As the Estimate has come before us at short notice, I am not able to deal with it as minutely as I would wish. Although wireless broadcasting in this country has been successful to a great extent, we get various complaints from time to time. I suppose, no matter how good the service is, one will always get complaints. The Minister pointed out that Radio Éireann had never been accused of deviating from strict standards of morality and good taste. Despite any grievances the public may have, I think that is the best tribute that could be paid to it. Let us hope that in the course of the years to come the same tribute can be paid to the new Television Authority.
I am no great radio fan myself but I like to turn on Radio Éireann for the news and any special programmes I see announced. In my area, however, we have a real grievance. Whatever the trouble is, it is extremely difficult to receive Radio Éireann in West Cork and South Kerry. I am sure it is not the fault of the broadcasting authorities, but if television ever comes to the area I hope reception will be good. I think the Minister stated a few months ago that the matter was being dealt with. We all realise that in various areas of the country it will be too difficult and expensive to provide a television service, and the people in such areas will have to depend on sound broadcasting. The Minister should ensure that they get good reception without interference. I am sure we could transmit on sufficient power to enable Radio Éireann to be heard as distinctly as other stations, but perhaps because of the expense we are unable to give the good service our people demand. They do not realise perhaps that if they want the best possible service they must pay for it. When the Minister for Finance begins to cheesepare he turns naturally to what might be termed the luxury services, although broadcasting should not now be regarded as a luxury because the people demand the best service possible.
I think I can say on behalf of my Party that this Estimate will have to be met and that we must make provision for the new services that have been arranged although it is a pity the Minister has to look for this supplementary sum so soon. I do not know what the Minister can do about the complaint I have made in connection with broadcasting reception in South Kerry and West Cork. I suppose the same position obtains in other parts of the country as well. If we could get good reception we would always turn on to Radio Éireann. I never turn on to any other station. While many people complain about the service, I think it as good as the country can afford.
We have already dealt with the question of the television service and the new Authority. While many people say we should not go to the extent of having a television service here, smaller countries than ours have had such a service for very many years so we must, even in our financial position, although the Minister would not admit that we are at present in any such difficulty, make provision. Whatever provision we make is only a small item when compared with all the other millions of pounds spent by the other Departments. The only trouble about this service—I am not sure if I can advert to this at all and perhaps I should confine myself to the general estimate——
The Deputy is in order in referring to both the Estimates before the House.
What the people say is that we are voting so many millions of pounds now to set up this television service and we say that after five years it will be self-supporting. Because of the experience of other services like Coras Iompair Éireann people say that once money is voted in that manner it will have to continue to be voted, perhaps for all time, and that there will always be a loss. It is not only Coras Iompair Éireann that is concerned. There are other State bodies set up in the same manner and they are always looking for extra money.
If the television service, after two, three, four or five years is self-supporting, I shall say that it was well it was introduced and I suppose the whole position will depend solely on the Authority selected. I do not know any member of the Authority except that I have heard so much about the chairman. I suppose that the success of the service will depend upon the chairman. It does not matter what body we take, even if it is only a Fianna Fáil club or a Fine Gael club, a great deal depends upon the type of chairman you select. It is the same with any business or company; success will depend a great deal upon the chairman and, to a lesser extent, upon the secretary. We hope that the chairman selected and the Authority appointed, are the best that could be obtained.
I remember that, when speaking on this matter of the television service on a former occasion, I mentioned to the Minister that he should select the members of the Authority without any reference to their political affiliations, that he should select the best men or women he could get, to carry out the service to the full satisfaction of the people of this country and even of those outside it.
Having spoken of the radio and the television services I should like to put some questions to the Minister which, perhaps, he would answer. I have drafted them out here as we have not had much time to consider this matter. He mentioned in a general way what it is proposed to do with the television service. I would like to ask if there is any real possibility of the television service becoming self-supporting. I have referred to that already but, as I have said, not only myself and the members of my Party but the people in the country feel that once you subsidise any service like Coras Iompair Éireann there is always the danger that you will have to continue to do that. Let us hope that it will not be that way with the television service.
If the service is not self-supporting what is likely to be the annual charge on the Exchequer? I mean what would the charge likely to be after the period for which we have engaged to subsidise it? Has the Minister yet appointed a director of the service? If he has not appointed a director of the service could he tell us, before this Estimate goes through, who the director will be?
Furthermore, we have adopted a certain line in accordance with the Bill that has been passed by this House. Are we satisfied that we have adopted the right line, one which will give us the best pictures? We have seen quite recently that in Great Britain they propose to change over to the 600 line system. If that is so, and if there is any danger in that respect, it will be a very serious matter. We shall have incurred a great deal of expense in the setting up of the line and in voting money for such a service we should be very careful that there is no danger that in the near or distant future we shall discover that we have made a mistake and that we have voted money for the setting up of a system on a certain line that is to become obsolete.
