The Estimate has already been discussed fairly fully by the House and there are just a few matters with which I want to deal. Certain speakers have already dealt with three principal aspects of the Estimate—the question of housing, the question of the Minister's responsibility and the proposals which he has circulated in relation to road traffic, and the matter, raised by Deputy Norton in his question to the Minister today, of the deplorably low poll, as I would regard it, in the recent local elections.
So far as housing is concerned, I want to say, and any Deputy on this side of the House is entitled to say, that we are justified in accusing the present Government of having failed dismally. We are entitled to measure up the Government's performance in house building, and particularly in local authority house building, against the campaign carried on by the present Government when they occupied these benches prior to the 1957 general election. I want to refer to this matter simply for the purpose of pointing out to the Minister, and in particular to Deputy Noel Lemass, that it is not good enough, after the Government have been three years in office, to endeavour to escape responsibility for the situation regarding housing over the last few years by the type of excuse put up by Deputy Lemass yesterday evening when he said that the previous Government had been responsible for slowing things down and that it took time to get things going again. That kind of excuse might be all right and might sell itself to the public for six months or 12 months but it is not good enough over a three or four year span.
The housing figures issued by the Minister in reply to Parliamentary Questions over the last few months do show that since the present Government came into office there has been a disastrous fall in the erection of houses both by local authorities and by private concerns. As I say, we are entitled to view that within the framework of the sustained campaign carried on by Fianna Fáil spokesmen, Fianna Fáil Deputies and others, prior to the last General Election and carried on in a particularly active way by members of the Fianna Fáil Party in this House prior to the last general election.
I want to substantiate what I am saying by referring to some quotations from Fianna Fáil sources. I have here a few quotations. I shall not weary the House unduly with them. Fianna Fáil used to publish a pamphlet called Gléas which is in the nature of organisational directions to the Fianna Fáil Party. I do not know whether they still do so or not. For a period of a number of months they used to send me a complimentary copy of Gléas. Since I commenced quoting Gléas in the House they have discontinued sending me the complimentary copy so that I am not in a position to say whether it is still published and in circulation amongst the Deputies opposite or not.
However, I have a copy of Gléas for May, 1955 when the Fianna Fáil Party occupied these Benches. On page 2 of that issue there is a heading: “Plan for Housing”. I shall quote the first two paragraphs. They are not too long. Under the heading, “Plan for Housing” we are told:
Fianna Fáil intends to pursue to completion the housing programme initiated by it in 1932 with the same vigour as in the past so that the national housing needs will be met in the shortest possible time. Fianna Fáil believes that private individuals should be given every encouragement to build their own homes or to have them built for them and to enable them to do this they should be given all the help and facilities they may reasonably need.
Where houses are built by public authorities Fianna Fáil will encourage tenant purchase schemes.
There, in May, 1955, before the campaign to which I have referred had gained impetus, Fianna Fáil were at least declaring their own policy in relation to housing and their belief that private individuals should be given every encouragement to build their own homes.
Little over a year later, in June, 1956, Gléas was circulated again and this time, on page 2, they also dealt with the question of housing and they came out with banner headlines: “Building Trade Faces Disaster”. The article had this to say:
Of all the imcompetent bungling which has been perpetrated by the Coalition Government during the past two years perhaps the most glaring example is the housing position, particularly in Dublin city. In spite of all the building which has taken place in Dublin since Fianna Fáil initiated the housing drive, many thousands still live in appalling conditions. Whole families often have to exist in one small room. To do away with these slum conditions 15,000 new buildings are still required.
I would ask the Minister to bear that figure in mind. In June, 1956, when Fianna Fáil were occupying these Benches, they were prepared to state that 15,000 new dwellings were required in the city of Dublin. There was then none of the talk that we heard subsequently of the need for local authority housing tapering off. That was their figure in June, 1956.
A General Election took place in the year 1957 and Fianna Fáil published their usual propaganda sheet in connection with it. This one dealt with such questions as unemployment, cost of living and also the question of housing. Under the heading of "Homes for Irishmen", they told us:—
One of the most serious problems facing the new Fianna Fáil Government will be the question of the building industry which has been thrown into a state of chaos.
Later in this article they say:—
It will be a first task of Fianna Fáil to see that life and vigour are restored to the building trade and that small dwellings loans once again become available for house purchase.
As a result of that and other propaganda efforts by Fianna Fáil before and during the course of the general election they find themselves in a position where they occupy the Government Benches today and they have the present Minister in charge of Local Government.
Approximately nine months after they took over they were faced with a by-election in the north side of Dublin city. Speaking from recollection, it was the by-election which returned Deputy Sherwin to the House. Fianna Fáil issued their usual propaganda in connection with that by-election. They were still in a position where they thought themselves able to blame their predecessors for anything that might be wanting in regard to housing. They published their pamphlet in support of the Fianna Fáil candidate in that by-election, dealing again in part with the question of housing. We were told in that pamphlet, under the heading: "We Are Going Ahead with Housing":—
In Dublin city the number of dwellings in tender on April 1st last was only 222 compared with 815 a year earlier. Private house building was in no better position due to the collapse of the small dwellings loans scheme during 1956. The number of grant houses under consideration fell by almost 2,000. Action has now been taken to deal with this position.
This was in November, 1957. It goes on:
During the year the Fianna Fáil Government is providing sufficient money to initiate at successive stages the whole of the housing schemes which were held up. As well as some schemes at present maturing, a small dwellings loans scheme has been started again. As a result of this Government action there have in recent months been signs of improvement in the housing situation.
It takes time to bring new housing schemes to the point where work actually begins. Plans must be prepared, sites acquired and tenders sought. New schemes are now being prepared which will come to fruition in the months ahead.
We are still talking in terms of November 1957, and Fianna Fáil, facing the electorate on the north side of this city, told them that new schemes were being prepared which would come to fruition in the months ahead. They finished this article by saying:
As construction work gets under way on these new schemes the building trade may expect some relief from the very heavy unemployment problem which arose last year.
I have referred to these quotations for the purpose of substantiating my statement that prior to and during the last general election there was a very active and vigorous campaign fought against the last Government on the question of housing. The leadership of that campaign so far as the city of Dublin is concerned can undoubtedly be claimed by Deputy Briscoe. That campaign had its effects in Dublin and elsewhere. When Fianna Fáil got back to office in 1957 they claimed that, whatever about the past, whatever about what they chose to describe as the bungling of the inter-Party Government that preceded them, now that they were back in office they had plans, that they were implementing those plans and in the months that lay ahead there was going to be a significant change in regard to housing in the city of Dublin and elsewhere.
What is the result after three years of Fianna Fáil effort? Are Deputy Briscoe and any other Deputies in that Party, particularly those who campaigned so actively against the last Government and the predecessor of the present Minister for Local Government, happy about the results which have been achieved by them and their Government? Are any of them happy in the knowledge that they got into this House with a majority over every other Party, that they got themselves put into the position by the electorate where no Party or groupings of Parties in this House could even halt any of the plans or schemes they wanted to operate? What plans or schemes have they operated in regard to housing?
On the 22nd March last Deputy Norton asked the Minister for Local Government to state the average number of houses under construction by the Dublin Corporation and by all other local authorities for each of the half years July to December, 1956 to 1959 and the average number of persons employed on such housing schemes. In view of the campaign by the Deputies opposite and in view of the propaganda in the North Dublin by-election to which I have referred, if any of them expected that there would be anything to cheer about in the Minister's reply they were certainly in for a very great disappointment.
The reply given by the Minister for Local Government on the 22nd March last showed that the average number of houses under construction by the Dublin Corporation during the half year, July to December, 1956, was 2,159—1956, the black year according to Fianna Fáil, the year they felt themselves entitled to thump the table on this side of the House and to scoff and jeer at the previous Government because of their record in connection with housing. In the next half year, July to December, 1957, there were 828 houses under construction by the Dublin Corporation; in July to December, 1958, after Fianna Fáil had been there sufficiently long to implement the plans and the schemes of which they spoke in their propaganda during the North Dublin by-election campaign in 1957, there had been a drop down to 518 houses under construction by the Dublin Corporation. In July to December, 1959, when Fianna Fáil had been there for a further twelve months, when they had been in an unchallengeable position in this House with the voting strength to implement any plans they liked, what was the result? A further drop to the miserable total of 392 houses under construction by the Dublin Corporation.
The numbers in employment on corporation houses in this city fell accordingly and, for the four half years in question, the figures dropped from 1,883 in 1956 to 970 in 1957, to 569 in 1958 and to 482 in 1959. Was the picture any better for areas other than that under the jurisdiction of the Dublin Corporation? The picture is exactly the same: a drop from 3,584 houses under construction in the period July to December, 1956, to 1,843 in 1957 and a further reduction to 1,678 in 1958 and a still further reduction to 1,381 in 1959.
I do not wish to weary the House any longer in relation to this question of housing, but it is time, and it is due to the House, that the Minister, Deputy Briscoe and any others who took part in that campaign some years ago should apologise to the House and to the people for their own miserable failure in relation to housing. I could give figures—but I do not think it is necessary—showing the drop in the amount of money put forward by the Government to support housing schemes by local authorities and others over the last few years which is in contradiction to the hopes for encouraging private individuals to build their own houses which were expressed in the quotations to which I have referred.
I hope, and I think I can speak for other Deputies on this side of the House, that sooner or later the question of house building either by private individuals or local authorities will be taken out and will stay out of the realm of controversial politics That can be done—and I think I can safely give this undertaking on behalf of Deputies on this side of the House —as soon as we get a full and frank apology from the Minister and those behind him for the campaign they indulged in some years ago and an acknowledgment of their failure in relation to housing.
References have been made to the low poll in the recent municipal elections. I was surprised to hear the Minister in reply to a Parliamentary Question today saying that the vote could not be described as extremely low generally. I beg to disagree with him there. It may be that in relation to voting at other local elections the drop was not as much in some areas as in others. The fact that voting in previous local elections was low does not hold out any encouragement because there was an equally low poll in the most recent elections.
I regard the poll in the recent local elections as extremely low and deplorably so. I want to express the hope that the low poll is not to be taken as an indication by some 60 per cent. or 70 per cent. of the electorate that they believe that local councils are not serving any useful purpose and that, as far as they are concerned, they regard local authorities and local council representation as being redundant and consequently open to possible abolition. Every Deputy should, I think, take stock of the position.
Various reasons have been given to account for the low poll. One of the reasons—I believe there is a good deal of weight in it—is that in local elections, unlike Parliamentary elections, the electorate have not the advantage of receiving voting cards from the returning officer notifying them of their number and where they should vote. I believe that plays its part in the low polls in local elections, but I do not believe that it is the whole story.
Another explanation, or part explanation, which, again, I believe is true and does have an effect, is the fact that in local elections as distinct from general elections there is not the same degree of all-over publicity. There is not the same national publicity with a consequent stirring up of interest. I believe that has a fairly significant effect on the lowness of the poll in local elections.
I have heard—I believe every Deputy has heard—the lowness of the poll blamed on the fact that political Parties and Party politicians take part in local elections. I hold a view on that. It is one I have expressed in this House before. I think I expressed it for the first time when I spoke on the Estimate for the Department of Local Government some twelve years back. It is a purely personal view. I should prefer to see local councils constituted in such a way that no member of the Dáil could be a member of them. However, I am sufficient of a realist to recognise the fact that one cannot turn back the hands of the clock. We are not very likely to see that situation.
I am aware that the Taoiseach has expressed the view that it is proper for political Parties to take part in local affairs and to have their representation on local councils. I believe there are a great number of people who accept that view and believe it is the right view. Personally, I think it is unsound basically. As I recollect, the Taoiseach when he was giving expression to that view justified it on the basis that Government policy is implemented through local authorities and it is, therefore, right that a national Party with a national policy should seek to put itself in a position in which its policies will be implemented through local bodies.
As I have said, I believe that view is basically unsound even though it is endorsed by practice not only here but in Great Britain and on the Continent of Europe. It seems to me to be tantamount to saying that because the Government have a policy in relation to health services, for example, because, indeed, the Minister for Health is waging a political war with the Irish Medical Association, it would be proper for the Fianna Fáil Party to endeavour to infiltrate into the Irish Medical Association, to fill key positions there for the purpose of furthering the Minister's policy.
I think one argument is pretty much the same as the other. I do not believe it would be proper for Fianna Fáil to do that. I do not believe they would regard it as proper for them to do that. That, I think, is the fallacy in the Taoiseach's argument. However, as I have said, one cannot put the hands of the clock back. Political Parties in this country, and in others, play their part in local elections. To those who blame that fact for lack of interest on the part of the electorate in local authorities it is true to say that, but for the fact that political Parties and independent politicians have played their part on local bodies and presented themselves as candidates in local elections, the vote would be a very miserable one indeed. If it is as low as 25 per cent., 30 per cent., or 35 per cent. with the efforts of the political Parties thrown in, what would it be if the political Parties were to hold aloof and play no part at all in these elections?
I believe one of the reasons—I think possibly the main reason—for the low poll and the lack of interest in local elections is that, by and large, the ratepayers feel that everyone overlooks the fact that it is they who foot the bill. With the extension of full suffrage some twenty or twenty-five years ago to local elections I believe the heavier ratepayers feel their voice in civic administration has practically gone, and they have lost confidence in the ability of local authorities to do anything effective in relation to rates.
I heard Deputy Sweetman yesterday, and I should like to support his plea, urge the necessity for bringing home to the people the power and the authority that local councils have. It is essential that the people should know that they are not wasting their time when they send people on to local authorities; that there is a definite job of work to be done by the representatives they send there; and that it is no credit to them, and certainly no compliment to the members of local authorities, if they just do not bother voting at local elections.
It is my experience in Dublin—I do not pretend to know the position in the rural areas—that the people who are most likely to remain away from the polls in local elections are those who are the heaviest ratepayers. My impression is that it is those who pay least rates, or none at all, who vote and discharge their duties properly in local elections and it is their votes which, in fact, elect the various local authorities.
Whatever the reasons may be, Deputies must take stock of the fact that people are less interested now in local authorities. The explanation may very well lie, as was suggested by Deputy Dillon yesterday, in the fact that people have come to believe that local authorities have no power, no adequate power, and that consequently there is not much to be gained in taking part in local elections. In this connection I would ask the Minister to examine closely the figures for voting in local elections over the years and to do whatever he can, either on the lines suggested by Questions to him today, or otherwise, to stir up more interest in these elections and endeavour to get people to realise that the local authorities form a very definite part of our democratic machinery.
As a person who is not a member of a local authority but who has been a member, I can say without any personal embarrassment that it is right people should know that members of local authorities do a very great deal of work and get very little thanks for it. Those who work on the Dublin Corporation get nothing by way of expenses or anything else, and they voluntarily give a very great deal of their time in carrying out the administration of the city. I believe there is a great deal of uninformed criticism of members of local authorities and that if there were better recognition of the work done by them people might take a greater interest in local elections.
The only other matter to which I wish to refer, and I shall be brief, is the question of road traffic. This Party thought it proper to respond to the general invitation issued by the Minister to submit views on the White Paper for road traffic legislation which he circulated. By doing that we marked our desire, first to see that this question and the necessity for steps being taken adequately to deal with it, would be removed from any association with Party politics. Had we so wished we could have sought an opportunity to discuss the Minister's White Paper in detail in this House but we thought it better to record, as we have done, our desire that this question should be considered as one of urgency and about which there should be little or no controversy, if controversy can be avoided.
I do not wish to do anything more today than urge the Minister, as have other speakers, to introduce his proposals as quickly as possible so that the new code may come into operation fairly quickly. It is urgently needed and there is no one on this side of the House who will stand in the Minister's way if he will only get moving. I am disappointed that it has taken so long for him and his colleagues to get moving on this question.
