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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 9 May 1961

Vol. 189 No. 1

Adjournment Debate. - Mountmellick County Home.

At Question Time today, the Minister for Health was asked by Deputy O.J. Flanagan when work will commence on the reconstruction and improvement of the county home at Mountmellick and what is the cause of the delay. The Minister read out, as his reply, from a document which I assume was prepared for him. He said in his reply:

The scheme for the reconstruction and improvement of the county home in Mountmellick is a major undertaking involving heavy capital expenditure. It provides inter alia for the internal reconstruction and renovation of the existing old workhouse buildings, additional accommodation for patients including a new infirmary block, central heating and improved sanitary accommodation.

His reply goes on:

By reason of the nature and scope of the scheme, formulation of the local authority's planning proposals and their detailed examination in my Department have necessarily taken some time but I am glad to say that planning is now in its final stage and that the local authority should be in a position in the near future to invite tenders for the carrying out of the approved works.

I describe that reply as nothing but utter rubbish. Further, I want to say that the Minister had the most astounding audacity to come to the House to read out such rubbish.

He says that this is a major undertaking involving heavy capital expenditure. I accept that it is. I want the House to ask itself this question: How much more will this work cost when it is done eventually than it would have cost had it been done when I ordered it to be done in 1957? The increase in cost which is necessarily involved is the result of the decision which I shall refer to in a few minutes.

The Minister's reply goes on to say that "by reason of the nature and scope of the scheme, formulation of the local authority's planning proposals and their detailed examination in my Department have necessarily taken some time." I am sure they did, but I was there as Minister for Health to watch the time that was consumed and I assert here that the planning by the local authority was completed and approved by the Department in 1956. My then advisers, whose advice is still available to the Minister, advised me that I could authorise the local authority—as I did—in 1956 to proceed, as a matter of urgency, with this work.

The Minister goes on in his reply to say:

I am glad to say that planning is now in its final stage and that the local authority should be in a position in the near future to invite tenders for the carrying-out of the approved works.

I should like to know what happened to the instruction I gave as Minister for Health to the Laois health authority some five years ago to proceed with the construction of the county home in Mountmellick. What dead hand lay upon that work? Why was my instruction countermanded and on what basis does the Minister now, five years later, come into the House which he assumes knows nothing about it, to say blandly that the local authority should be in a position in the near future to proceed with that work? I should like to assert that the reconstruction of Mountmellick County Home should have been completed certainly by 1958 and it would have been completed, had not the Government changed in 1957 and the present Government come into office.

There is no reason why the work should not proceed. The money was there, earmarked and carefully put aside for this and other proposals. The Minister chided me at Question Time today that in order to finance this and other schemes, I had mortgaged the Hospitals Trust Fund. If the Minister chooses to use those terms to describe the policy I initiated, I am quite willing to accept them. I assert to the House that after careful consideration, after availing of the advice which was available to me in 1956, I drew up a new hospital programme consisting of certain matters which I regarded as having urgency throughout the country. I decided that the programme would be financed on the basis that the Hospitals Trust Fund would continue and that in the three, four, or five years that programme would need for completion, the income into the fund would continue at not less than something around £1½ million a year.

I cannot be exact about the figures as I am talking merely from recollection. The programme I drew was drawn up on the basis of that faith and I should like to know from the Minister whether the faith I expressed in 1956 was ill-founded? Is it correct to say that nothing has happened since to make my estimate and that of my advisers appear in the slightest degree inaccurate. Certainly the income of the Hospitals Trust Fund over the years since has in fact exceeded the estimate upon which this programme was based. The result has been that into the Hospitals Trust Fund each year since the Minister assumed office has gone at least £2 million. It has not been spent as it should have been on building hospitals for poor, old people, providing the people of Mountmellick with the necessary sanitary services and new infirmary blocks which they urgently needed five years ago. It has not been put to projects of that kind; instead, it has been invested in stocks and shares by the Minister for Health and it has in itself been earning income.

That may be prudent finance; it may be the kind of conservative approach the Minister believes in; but I have little doubt that the people outside the House will agree that it has been very bad from the point of view of the country. All the hospital programme that was available—it was on the Minister's desk when he succeeded me—has been scrapped from beginning to end. No worthwhile project has continued or gone into operation and most of our county homes that were in an appalling condition when I visited them—as I did in many cases as Minister—remain in the same condition. Poor, old people in the county home in Mountmellick have continued to suffer under conditions which are primitive in the extreme.

On the other side of the ledger, because of the kind of mentality displayed by the Minister in the decision he took, we know what has happened in the building trade and other trades in the last four or five years. It is because of that mentality that some 30,000 to 40,000 of our people have emigrated each year.

What has this to do with Mountmellick?

The Minister is anxious to get away from Mountmellick. I shall bring him back to Mountmellick. It is because of the policy enshrined in the Minister's decision in relation to Mountmellick that emigration has climbed to the heights it has over the last four or five years. Even in Mountmellick—the Minister is anxious I should get back to it— over the last four or five years 500 working people have emigrated.

I do not want it to be suggested that I was anxious to reconstruct the county home in Mountmellick merely to provide employment. I should be glad though, if in doing some socially necessary work, employment would be created. I have little doubt that, if this scheme had proceeded as I had given directions that it should proceed, emigration from that small town would not have been so high as it has proved to be in the last four or five years.

It is possible that on occasions a Minister may read a reply to a question that he would not read, perhaps, had he studied the matter. Whoever gave that paper to the Minister for Health just had not read the file. That is bad enough, but for the Minister to seek to present it——

On a point of order, the implication of the Deputy's statement is that I have been misinformed. That is an attack upon my advisers and I do not think, Sir, you should allow the Deputy to proceed on that basis.

The Minister is, of course, responsible.

May I recall for you, Sir, what the Deputy said: "Whoever gave that paper to the Minister to read?"

And, if that is a criticism, I repeat it. Whoever gave this paper to the Minister had not read the file and the only person responsible in this House for reading the file is the Minister for Health.

The Minister is responsible to this House for whatever was in the paper. No reference should be made to anybody else who, it is alleged, prepared the paper for the Minister.

I respectfully agree and any such reference is unreservedly withdrawn. I may attack only the Minister here. I am quite content to do so. The Minister gave this reply to the House. I must assume, under the rules of the House, that the Minister read the file. Assuming that, I can only describe the Minister's reply here as dissimilar from what the reply would have been had there been a proper reading of the file in relation to Mountmellick County Home. For the Minister to come in here and expressly state that the local authority's planning proposals and their detailed examination in his Department had taken some time is not in accordance with fact.

I can well appreciate that any Minister for Health, or any other Minister for that matter, who desires to delay a local authority project, might easily do so through the recognised channels, by indulging in the recognised gimmicks, but, in relation to this particular project, everything had been cleared. The detail had been gone through. The green light had been given to the local authority before the Minister took office. If the case were that the building scheme, which I sanctioned, had been scrapped because it was found inadequate or unsuitable, I could understand then a contrary decision. But if that were the position, I should expect the Minister to state publicly it was the position in reply to a question here. There has been no such suggestion. It is apparently the same scheme, the scheme which was examined in detail when I was Minister for Health, the scheme which I sanctioned. The local authority were told that the money was available to enable the scheme to be carried out. That is the scheme my successor stopped when he became Minister for Health and I cannot understand why he did not come in here and admit that the scheme was there, saying that he decided to postpone it, to change it, or to alter it. Had he done that, I should have said he was entitled to his view. I cannot understand his coming in here, talking about delays in planning, and all the rest of it; these are reasons which, like the flowers in Spring, have nothing to do with the case.

I do not know what prompted Deputy O'Higgins to raise this matter on the Adjournment because it is one which does not do him very much credit. The Deputy has referred to the fact that he directed that the Mountmellick scheme should proceed. When? Sketch plans for that proposal had been received in the Department in August, 1956. Nothing was done about them, though the Department was then under the control of Deputy O'Higgins as Minister for Health. The sketch plans were not even looked at. Why? Because a directive had issued from his colleague, the Minister for Finance, that no more expenditure was to be incurred from the Local Loans Fund, through which the reconstruction of the county home would have to be financed. In fact, the directive was that no more than £700,000 would be available from the Local Loans Fund for any health project in the years 1956, 1957 and 1958.

It is quite true that in February, 1957, the Deputy, as Minister for Health, issued to his officials a direction that the Mountmellick scheme was to be proceeded with. When did he do that? Why did he do it? He did it when the general election of 1957 was in course. Having regard to the statements which he has made here this evening, I feel now that he did it merely as an election stunt. It was one of 34 schemes that had been included in a programme, a programme which had been put to one side, shelved in fact.

The only scheme of the whole 34 about which Deputy O'Higgins, then in the last stages of his term of office as Minister for Health, was concerned was the Mountmellick scheme. We have heard a great deal about the fact that he was anxious to provide employment, anxious about the aged poor, very anxious that they should be succoured in their infirmity, but were there old people only in the constituency of Laois-Offaly? Were there no other county homes in equally urgent need of reconstruction as well as Mountmellick?

It was easily the worst.

Oh, no, not easily the worst, but the only one in which Deputy O'Higgins had a political interest.

I did more than the Minister. The Minister has not been in a county home since he became Minister.

Let us see what the situation was. I have told how the Hospitals Trust Fund was mortgaged up to the hilt, so mortgaged that in fact almost before the race was run the proceeds of the Grand National, 1957, had already been hypothecated. When they were paid out in April, 1957, there was not a penny left in the fund. What was the consequence of that? Any person who takes a bus ride to Dún Laoghaire from Dublin will see a standing memorial to the financial policy of my predecessor; he will see in part of the rusting superstructure of St. Vincent's Hospital a monument to my predecessor's policy, in the rusting re-inforcement for a building which was begun by him but which, because he left no funds, has not been built; but for which I have been able to find money, so that the hospital is now going ahead.

The hospital should have been open.

The construction of that hospital——

It should have had patients in it four years ago.

The construction of the hospital when it is re-started will not be suspended again. Now that it is being re-planned and will soon, we hope, be out to tender it will go ahead until completed.

It should have been finished in 1959.

The patients about whom Deputy O'Higgins talked will not have to go walking around the forest of reinforced steel which is to be seen in Elm Park, steel which he could not find concrete to cover because of the manner in which the resources of the Hospitals Fund had been squandered when he was in office.

Squandered? That is interesting. Does the Minister blush at that?

There is a new maternity hospital to be built in Cork. That was a commitment entered into in 1934 but, of course, my predecessor in 1957 had not a very keen interest in nor was he associated with Cork——

I postponed it.

——but that hospital is going ahead and the money is there for it. When the Hospital Board starts to build that hospital they know they will be able to carry it through to completion. The Deputy when he was Minister for Health could not find money to build the Coombe Hospital, a hospital——

——badly wanted for the poor of Dublin——

And the Coombe Hospital would have been built if——

——and there was not a penny available——

That is not so.

——to construct the hospital. Not one penny.

Is there to be some limitation on this, Sir? The Minister is telling a number of untruths.

I am concerned only with order.

The Coombe Hospital——.

The Deputy when he was Minister for Health suspended all work upon the Coombe Hospital, even the planning——

That is an untruth.

I assert with deliberation that the Minister is telling an untruth and knows it.

I am not asking Deputy O'Higgins——

I gave a direction that the Coombe Hospital would be proceeded with forthwith.

Another direction without any cash to back it.

Will the Minister accept from me that he is telling something which I am sure——

I will not accept it because——

The Deputy should allow the Minister to make his statement.

It is quite obvious that the Deputy has only one purpose in mind; we can see his tactics. The Deputy wishes to be expelled from the House so that this debate will conclude before I have an opportunity of exposing him.

The Minister must know that I provided money for the Coombe Hospital.

We shall come back to Mountmellick.

The Deputy may not say the Minister is telling an untruth and that he knows it. That is charging him with telling a lie.

I appreciate that I should not say it. I regret that the Minister stated that I stopped the Coombe Hospital and provoked that remark from me. I provided that the Coombe Hospital should proceed.

The Deputy should withdraw the remark.

The Deputy suspended the Coombe, the same as the remainder of the schemes except Mountmellick.

The Minister may act the buffoon but he is——

I want to make it clear that Deputy O'Higgins should not have said that the Minister is telling an untruth and that he knows it. That is a remark that should not have been made.

I regret that that remark was forced from me.

I accept the Deputy's withdrawal. I do not want to make capital out of it.

I think I am entitled to say that I directed that the Coombe Hospital should have priority——

The Deputy should allow the Minister to continue.

Allow me to come back to Mountmellick. The point is this: as I said, sketch plans were received in the Department in August 1956. Nothing was done about those sketch plans for the very good reason that an estoppel had been put on all hospital construction by the Minister for Finance. That is well known. The parlous condition of the Government finances at that time is public knowledge. In due course when money became available in the Local Loans Fund in January, 1959, I directed that one of the first projects that should proceed was the reconstruction of the Mountmellick County Home. I directed that in January, 1959. We received working drawings for engineering and other services in 1960, but it was only in February of this year that the structural drawings came in. We are hoping that the home will go to tender some time in August or September of this year. It has only been possible to proceed with the reconstruction of the home because of the fact that the finances of the State have now been put in order and the Minister for Finance is prepared to sanction loans from the Local Loans Fund for the construction of this and other projects which, as I have said, are now going ahead, with this very important condition that those who are responsible for initiating the building of these projects will have the certainty that the money will be there to finance them until they are completed.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 10th May, 1960.

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