asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he is aware that Irish citizens who are in receipt of retirement pensions and who take up residence here are not paid their full retirement pension by the British Government; and, if so, if he will augment such pensions to ensure that these pensioners suffer no loss by transfer of residence, or, alternatively, if he will make representations to the British Government to pay the full pension on transfer of residence.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Payment of Retirement Pensions by British Government.
5.
I understand that a British retirement pension payable to a person who leaves Great Britain continues to be paid at the rate which obtained at the date of his departure from Great Britain and that any subsequent increase in the rate of such pension is not paid unless the person returns to Great Britain. This provision is not confined to persons coming to reside here. Representations on this matter have been made in the past without success.
The suggestion in the question is that residents here who are receiving British pensions at a rate lower than the rate currently payable in Great Britain, should have their pensions increased to that rate at the expense of the Irish taxpayer. The current British rate of retirement pension (at age 65) is 57/6 a week to which may be added 35/- a week for a dependent wife. The corresponding Irish rates (at age 70) are 40/- and 30/- (as from 1st August next) respectively. No reason is seen why persons who must have spent a large portion of their working lives elsewhere and who, as a result of contributions made there, have qualified for pensions, should after retirement to this country have those pensions increased at the expense of the Irish taxpayer to rates in excess of those paid to persons who qualify for the contributory pension in this country.
As I stated in reply to a question by Deputy Gogan on the 11th April, 1961, I propose in due course to explore the possibility of making reciprocal arrangements with Great Britain in regard to old age (contributory) pensions, and the granting of increases in British pensions to persons resident in this country will naturally be included in the discussions.
While these pensioners paid contributions towards their pensions in Great Britain, it was through no fault of their own in the majority of cases that they had to emigrate or to migrate to Britain, and in view of the fact that they are being penalised by the British Government because they return to their native country and spend their pensions here, would he not consider entering into a reciprocal agreement, as Deputy Norton did when he was Minister?
I do not wish to deprecate what Deputy Norton did when he was Minister for Social Welfare but I think we now have reciprocal arrangements, very much——
He set a headline.
We have gone further. The real point is this. First of all, I do not accept the implication that people emigrate through no fault of their own. Very many people emigrate from this country who are not compelled to emigrate. They wish to see what the world is like elsewhere.
Would there be any chance of the Tánaiste doing that?
If I were as young as the Deputy, I would do that.
He is an emigrant too.
What I was about to say is that these people are getting the pension to which they contributed to the British Exchequer. Why should we, having received no contribution from them either in the form of economic production or monetary contribution, be compelled to increase the pensions which are due to them by the British Government?