Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 20 Jul 1961

Vol. 191 No. 9

Committee on Finance - Vote 20—Stationery Office.

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £347,500 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1962, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Stationery Office; for Printing and Binding, and the provision of Stationery, Paper, Books, Office Machinery and other Office Supplies for the Public Services; and for sundry Miscellaneous Purposes, including the publication and sale of Reports of Oireachtas Debates, Bills, Acts and Other Government Publications.

Does this mean that the cost of printing has gone up very substantially?

That will be very bad for all of us in the next couple of months.

Whether it is gone up or not, the printers will jack it up.

Mr. Ryan

I think it is about time a voice was raised in this House to complain about the delay in the publication of some of the annual reports of Government Departments and various other recurring documents for which the Stationery Office are responsible. The fact is that if these reports were issued by ordinary private companies they would have to be available within a matter of weeks in relation to the termination of a particular year. This is not the fault of the members of the House. It is utterly deplorable that these delays should take place. It may be due to some extent to the fact that the Stationery Office is not getting reports in time from the Departments. If that is so, it is about time that the Departments speeded up their end of the work.

We know that long delays arise quite frequently subsequent to the sending of draft reports and that kind of thing to the Stationery Office and by them, to the printers. Something will have to be done, if Parliamentary democracy is to mean anything and if our discussions are to mean anything, to speed up the publication of these annual reports.

Another serious delay which is causing grave inconvenience to members of the House and to the public in general is the delay which elapses between the passing of Bills into Acts and the publication of these Acts. It is not good enough for some so-called estimater in the Stationery Office to estimate the public demand which is likely to arise in relation to a particular Act. Acts should be available within a matter of weeks of their being passed by this House. They should be available in both texts. Again, something might have to be done there in relation to the Translation Office. The Stationery Office will have to do something about speeding up their machinery.

Another matter which is causing serious inconvenience to the public and to professional and cultural interests in this city and country is the inadequacy of the stocks held by the Government Publications Office at the Arcade near the G.P.O. It may sometimes take a person a week or a fortnight to get some document which is supposed to be available. We still maintain the theory that ignorance of the law is inexcusable. Yet any person who attends at the Government Publications Office for the purpose of ascertaining the law by purchasing a copy of it cannot get it in many cases.

The Government Publications Office is supposed to have a stock of maps. It is not an infrequent occurence for people going to the Government Publications Office to procure an ordnance survey map to be told that it will take four days to get a copy from the Phoenix Park. The President's car coming down empty, as it does on some occasions, could bring down enough maps to stock the office for a year. Members of the public and tourists have been told in the Government Publications Office that it would take four days to produce the map; that they would have to go to the far end of the Phoenix Park to get a map.

When complaints are made, there is the usual shrug of the Civil Service shoulder and the reply "That is the best we can do." That is not good enough. The Government Publications Sales Office is quite a joke for people going to it. It may be that the other booksellers are not disturbed by this, because many of them can get a book quicker than the Government Publications Sales Office. But if we want to maintain a Sales Office at public expense in the centre of the city, it is about time some reasonably efficient service were provided.

I would be happy about voting more money under this head if it meant we would have a speeding-up of the printing of Acts of the Oireachtas and of the recurring reports from Government Departments and semi-Government bodies, for which the Stationery Office is responsible, and if it meant that the Government Publications Sales Office would carry an adequate stock of goods or, if they had not got the required goods in stock, that they would, at least, make them available to members of the general public within 24 hours and not take four days to get from O'Connell Street to the Phoenix Park and back again.

I should like to direct the attention of the Minister to the fact that numerous inquiries have been made to the Government Publications Sales Office concerning the complete volume of the Debate on the Treaty and the records of the First and Second Dáil. I understand such volumes were out of print some time ago. In view of the historic interest in the proceedings of the First and Second Dáil and particularly the interest the public display in having available an accurate record in the form of the complete verbatim report of the debate on the Treaty, I feel these volumes should be available for members of the public who require them. I would ask the Minister to ensure that a certain number of copies would be available for the public. They are of great historical value and should not be allowed go out of print. While the demand may not be very heavy for them, certain people may require them for historical purposes. The Government Publications Sales Office should have supplies available for such people.

First, I do not think the Stationery Office should be blamed entirely for the delay in reports from the various Government Departments because the Stationery Office may not have received these reports for printing for a long time after they were due.

With regard to the publication of Acts, I gave the Deputy all the information I could in response to a Parliamentary Question a few days ago. I do not know whether it would be considered reasonable or not by the legal profession generally, but, so far as I know, there has been no general complaint——

——on that particular issue.

Strings of them, year after year after year.

They have not reached me yet.

The Minister might read some of the files in his Department, so.

The Minister has made a very revealing observation.

The Deputy's third point about the sending for supplies to the Phoenix Park is entirely unjustified. The Deputy made a specific complaint here some time ago on that point. It was revealed to me, and afterwards to the Deputy, that he was promised a supply at the Phoenix Park at 11 o'clock the next morning from the day he made the inquiry. They were available the next morning. It was not the Stationery Office's fault if the Deputy did not collect them.

Mr. Ryan

After a big blow up.

They were available at 11 o'clock the next morning. If the Deputy has any sense of fair play, which, of course, we would not expect, and if he walks into the Sales Office and asks for 45 copies of a certain Act, he should know it is more than likely they will not have the 45 copies to hand out. The order he gave was a very big and exceptional order. They were not able to fulfil it, but they told him they would have the remainder for him at 11 o'clock the next morning.

Mr. Ryan

The Minister has been misinformed.

With regard to the volume of the debates of the First and Second Dáil, again I do not know how many are available. I think they are generally available in the libraries around this House.

Was there not a reprint in the last couple of years?

There was a reprint of the Treaty Debates.

I think that has gone out of print again.

We can look into that matter.

I am astonished that the Minister for Finance has not heard complaints about the delay in printing the Acts of the Oireachtas. I think the problem is one associated with the labour of translation. In any case, I want to suggest to the Minister that he might consider a way out of the dilemma.

The Act is printed and circulated to Deputies on green paper as the Bill passed by the Dáil and Seanad. That green paper has the advantage of having on its face the marginal notes, which very often do not appear on the white Act in permanent form. I am sure the courts would not be prepared to take judicial notice of the green paper, but it would be of great assistance to practitioners who had to plead the Statute Law in the period between the passage of the Act and the publication of the white version, of which the courts will take judicial notice.

Perhaps the Minister would inquire into the feasibility of printing an additional 100 or 200 copies of the Bill as passed by Oireachtas Éireann so that it would be available to practitioners?

I understand they do that where they think there will be a demand for a particular Act.

Vote put and agreed to.
Top
Share