Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 25 Jul 1961

Vol. 191 No. 10

Tourist Traffic Bill, 1961—Second Stage.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. J. Lynch)

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time.

The principal purpose of the Bill is to enable increased funds to be made available to Bord Fáilte Éireann for the development of the tourist traffic industry. At present, the amount of the annual grant is limited to £500,000, from which the Board have to meet the cost of overseas publicity and advertising, as well as other activities such as the financing of hotel staff training schemes, the promotion of conferences and congresses, the improvement of angling and other sporting amenities, the carrying out of improvement works at holiday resorts, road signposting, the provision of access to national monuments and other places of public interest, the development of the native souvenir industry and the payment of grants to meet interest charges on loans for hotel and resort development. The Board have represented that valuable results would be likely to accrue if the rate of expenditure were to be accelerated for a limited period of time. The Bill provides, therefore, that, instead of the present maximum annual grant of £500,000, the Board may receive grants not exceeding in the aggregate £5,000,000. In my view, this global sum should meet the Board's requirements for a minimum period of seven years commencing with the present financial year.

The marked expansion in international travel which developed after the last War has been well maintained. Intra-European traffic is increasing at the rate of about 10 per cent per annum, and American traffic to Europe is expanding at very nearly the same rate. It is estimated that last year more than 800,000 American visitors came to Europe and that by next year the figure will have reached one million. The growing tendency towards longer paid holidays for workers, the increase in individual incomes and the favourable economic conditions which exist in many countries provide grounds for the expectation that the tourist traffic industry will continue to expand for many years to come.

Expenditure by visitors to this country makes a very valuable contribution to our balance of payments. Last year, for example, visitors to Ireland spent £42.4 million, almost 50 per cent. more than in 1953 and 30 per cent. more than in 1957. There is no doubt that this income is capable of being substantially increased. Our share of the American traffic to Europe has increased from six per cent. to 10 per cent. within the past 10 or 12 years, but I am satisfied that, if more advertising and promotion were undertaken in North America, the proportion could be increased to 20 per cent. Our proximity to Britain and the freedom of travel between the two countries place us in a very favourable position to attract more tourists from that source. At present, out of 30,000,000 British people who take a holiday away from their home each year, only about 300,000, or one per cent., come to Ireland. If, instead of one per cent., we could attract two or perhaps three per cent, the effect on our tourist earnings would be electrifying.

Bord Fáilte are satisfied that, if we are to achieve a substantial expansion in tourist traffic, it will be necessary to intensify our overseas promotion and publicity. The increased competition between countries for this traffic and the rising costs of advertising indicate the need to spend more money on promotion, both in the British and the United States market. The Board hope to open new tourist offices in those countries and to engage in more effective promotional activity. This will entail increased expenditure on printed publicity and films and on the sponsoring of visits to Ireland by foreign journalists and writers whose published articles can provide good propaganda for Irish tourism. Good results have already been achieved by Bord Fáilte as a result of promotional efforts undertaken in certain limited fields such as coach tours and angling holidays, and the Board believe that an increase in general tourist promotion and publicity abroad would bring significant results.

Efforts to attract increased tourist traffic must be accompanied by commensurate efforts to improve the standard of amenities for the reception of visitors. As Deputies are aware, generous grants are already being provided towards the cost of the extension and improvement of hotel accommodation and the development of major tourist resorts. There are, however, many other development activities the tempo of which must be increased. These include the provision of schemes for the training of hotel staff, the development of angling and other sporting attractions, the signposting of roads and the provision of easier access to beaches, rivers, lakes, scenic views and other places of special interest to tourists. It is obviously desirable that development schemes of this kind should be carried out as quickly as possible. Because of insufficiency of funds, however, the present rate of progress is too slow. The new arrangements proposed under this Bill for the financing of the Board's activities will enable a faster rate of progress to be achieved.

The Bill contains a number of provisions dealing with the guaranteeing of loans for the expansion and improvement of holiday accommodation and the development of tourist resorts. The power to give guarantees in respect of loans was originally limited by the Tourist Traffic Act, 1952, to a period of 5 years, but this was extended to 10 years by the Act of 1957. The 10-year period will expire in July, 1962, and, as the scheme is operating satisfactorily and constitutes a valuable incentive to private enterprise to undertake hotel and resort development, I am proposing that the power to give guarantees should be extended for a further 5 years, that is, until July, 1967.

The Act of 1952 imposed a limit of £3,000,000 on the aggregate amount of loans which may be guaranteed. The total amount so far guaranteed, or recommended to me by Bord Fáilte for guarantee, is approximately £2,500,000 and as there is a definite possibility that the limit of £3,000,000 may be reached within the next year or two, I am proposing a new limit of £5,000,000.

Grants are payable by Bord Fáilte to meet interest charges on guaranteed loans arising during the first five years of the repayment period. Interest grants are also payable in respect of loans raised otherwise than under Ministerial guarantee for the construction and improvement of holiday accommodation. There is at present a statutory limit of £75,000 on the aggregate amount of such grants which may be paid by Bord Fáilte in any financial year. As a result of the various incentive schemes which have been introduced for hotels in recent years, many new development projects have been put in hands which may involve the Board in interest grant commitments in excess of the statutory limit. I am, accordingly, proposing that the limit be removed.

In promoting this Bill which envisages increased expenditure by Bord Fáilte, I am conscious of the fact that Government expenditure on the promotion of the tourist traffic industry has been running at a rate which is not inconsiderable in relation to our economic resources. I should like to emphasize, however, that I am envisaging under this Bill an increase in expenditure on tourism which will be confined to a limited period of time. The view of Bord Fáilte is that an accelerated rate of promotional and development activity during the next number of years will be likely to result in a substantial expansion of the tourist traffic industry, and the proposals contained in the Bill have been prepared on that basis. I hope that the Bill will make an important contribution to the development of the tourist industry over the next few years, and I recommend it for the approval of the House.

Mr. Cosgrave

I have always held the view that the tourist industry is one of the most valuable which the country possesses and that indeed for a comparatively small expenditure, taken in a national way, the advantages which accrue from it to the country are considerable. It is satisfactory to note that last year the income from visitors to this country increased, that, according to the Minister, it was 50 per cent. more than it was in 1953 and 30 per cent. more than in 1957.

It is, however, well to recall that the OEEC, which compiles reports from the tourist committee, concluded an examination for the years 1955 to 1958. While these figures are not probably strictly comparable in every way, at any rate the OEEC basis of assessment is offered on the understanding that they are to a great extent compiled on a comparable basis for each country. It is significant to note that, of a number of countries that increased tourist income between 1955 and 1958, the figures show that Ireland increased by 12 per cent., Britain by 25 per cent., West Germany by 64 per cent., France by 30 per cent., Switzerland by 5 per cent., Italy by 48 per cent., and Austria by 103 per cent. In the case of Switzerland it seems the obvious explanation for the small increase in income from tourism is that the industry is so highly developed there that the possibility of further increases is not as great as it is elsewhere.

I think it is of significance that during that period, with the exception of Switzerland, the growth in respect of the increase in tourist income for this country is half that of the lowest increase, which was in the case of Britain less than half in the case of France and substantially less than West Germany, Austria and Italy, so that we have very considerable leeway to make up.

While considerable work has been done and, as the Minister remarked, the expenditure on the basis of our resources which Bord Fáilte is able to undertake is considerable, I often wonder if we get adequate value in return. Is any assessment made, or is it possible to make any, of the value secured by the promotional efforts of Bord Fáilte? One would imagine from the figures given that a great many of these tourists would come here in any case, irrespective of what efforts were made either by private concerns or Bord Fáilte or a combination of both. It is remarkable that only 300,000, or one per cent., of the total number of British people who take a holiday come to this country. It is all the more remarkable when we consider that there must be now over 1,000,000 Irish-born people resident in Britain. Five or six years ago, our London Embassy then estimated that there were over 750,000 people of Irish birth resident in Britain. Since then, the number has increased and if we take into account the number of people of Irish extraction in Britain, we have a very considerable potential to exploit. It is a reasonable contention that of the 300,000 visitors from Britain who come here, a high proportion are Irish people coming to visit their families.

On the other hand, we have also the prospect of more tourists from the United States. I hold the view that while this country is known in the United States, it is not known to anything like the extent to which it should be known and the fact that there is now as President of the United States a person with Irish antecedents and entirely of Irish extraction affords an opportunity for exploiting the publicity potential in that regard and we should take full advantage of it.

As regards attracting promotional people here with a view to securing articles by journalists about this country, while nobody can control the type of article these people may write, so far as writers brought here by Bord Fáilte or under other promotional auspices are concerned, we should endeavour to secure that favourable comment will be made on this country. Quite a number of the writers who visit the country afterwards write in a vein in which we are held up as funny people and Ireland as a place where many of the amenities expected in modern tourist resorts are not available. We do not expect that people will write other than what they believe but certainly some articles in tourist magazines and so on have not been objective. We should make it clear that if writers are invited to come here under any auspices, if we play the game with them in bringing them here, we expect them to do likewise with us.

The value of congresses has been discussed before. One of the most useful promotional activities is the encouragement of congresses here. Whether a congress is held in Dublin or in another part of the country, it is valuable. It brings to a particular locality—I have seen this particularly in small places such as my own constituency of Dún Laoghaire—as well as the many visitors who attend, persons of considerable eminence in their own spheres. Consequently, they are interested in the work of the congress and are impressed by the arrangements and facilities for the congress. Invariably, I think, they take back with them from this country a good impression because of the satisfactory arrangements. There is the added advantage that sometimes congresses of world-wide significance are held here and bring to the country persons of great eminence in a profession or trade or whatever is the subject of the conference. In some cases congresses are held in localities other than the capital and also they can be held other than at the peak season and probably in certain cases in the off season or at the end or beginning of the peak holiday season. This is, therefore, a way of extending the holiday season for the resort in question. In that way, we have a direct method of extending the holiday season and at the same time, we have the advantages which flow from the holding of these congresses.

Very important work is being done in many parts of the country in resort development under facilities provided and it has been the subject of favourable comment in many quarters. The development of tourist resorts, building of pier promenades, as well as parks, and the provision of whatever facilities are necessary at such places are of considerable benefit. Similarly, grants for hotel accommodation have been availed of to an increasing extent. I believe sufficient attention is not being paid to the ordinary hotels. In recent times, an emphasis on luxury hotels has crept into the approach to this matter and this conjures up pictures of most elaborate hotels in which only very wealthy people can stay. I believe that unfortunate impression has not been created by the Department or Bord Fáilte but has crept into descriptions because if a thing is big, it generally makes news. On the other hand, the vast majority of visitors coming here are people of average income, just as the great majority of our own holiday-makers, whether they holiday at home or abroad, are persons of average means. They are not attracted by the emphasis on luxury accommodation. The improvement in hotel accommodation over the years has been very remarkable. Not only has the accommodation improved but the standard of catering and amenities generally has also improved.

The scheme for training hotel employees is one which should be encouraged. I am glad to note that under the provisions of the Bill further encouragement by way of financial assistance will be given. The work of the vocational schools in conjunction with the school at Shannon, and elsewhere, has proved of great benefit. Tourists nowadays naturally expect to have proper standards provided. In order to provide such standards trained personnel is essential. It is, therefore, important to ensure that proper training facilities are provided. The scheme in operation is one which merits extension and encouragement because it provides employment ultimately for our people and offers opportunitities to an ever-increasing number of young people of getting employment in their own country in a way of life where training equips them to get the very best they can out of it.

There is one matter which inhibits to some extent further expansion and improvement where hotel accommodation is concerned. If hotels avail of the facilities provided they are liable to have their valuations increased. The tax remission granted is certainly an incentive but the increased valuation is a deterrent. I think this matter should be the subject of serious consideration in any further legislation of this kind. Development of the tourist trade affords an opportunity for considerable expansion. I should be glad to know if the Minister is satisfied that a sufficient return is secured for the expenditure on promotional activities. It is never possible, of course, fully to assess what benefits may flow from particular promotional efforts. Some of the most valuable promotional efforts here have been entirely fortuitous and have come from efforts made by individual undertakings rather than from State or local authority direction.

Mention was made earlier today of the proposed valuable race next year at the Curragh. That has received world-wide publicity. Last weekend we had the Hospitals Trust Golf Competition at Woodbrook. These efforts attract attention on an unprecedented scale as compared with efforts made in the past. They bring to the country sportsmen of international repute. Efforts of this kind deserve the best thanks not only of the House but of the country as a whole for the success which has attended them as well as for the direct and indirect benefits which flow from them to the advantage of the economy as a whole.

Mr. Kyne

As one who has had some difficulty in connection with loans for hoteliers—loans which are so freely spoken about here as being so readily available to those anxious to improve their accommodation to cater for visitors—I would suggest to the Minister that this money is not so readily available as he would give us to understand in his opening statement. I have in mind a hotel in my own constituency which took advantage of the loan and grant given by Bord Fáilte. The proprietors improved the bedroom accommodation considerably. Anticipating expense up to a certain amount, they sought a modest sum. It was given freely by Bord Fáilte. However, as a result of the improved bedroom accommodation, they found in the following season that the diningroom accommodation was inadequate. Regular loan repayments had been made. Despite that, they could not get an additional loan to extend the diningroom accommodation and their last position is now worse than their first.

I understand it is the policy of Bord Fáilte not to make a second loan available until the first loan is fully paid off. Would the Minister say if that is the situation? If it is the situation, would he take steps to have the regulation changed? I presume there is some regulation. The present position is a hindrance because genuine hoteliers are handicapped through not having the necessary capital themselves. They have to work very slowly towards achieving the desired standard—the standard it is the Minister's aim to achieve and the standard, indeed, which it is the aim of the hoteliers to achieve. In the case to which I refer the benefit of the first loan is being largely lost, because of the delay in providing adequate diningroom accommodation. Lack of diningroom accommodation can be a source of annoyance and grievance to tourists.

I endorse everything Deputy Cosgrave has said with regard to de luxe hotels. In the propaganda issued, there is too much emphasis on this type of hotel. The number of Americans who can afford to stay in these de luxe hotels is very limited and the duration of their stay is even more limited. They are really on their way to doing the Grand Tour of Europe and they drop off here to visit the Lakes of Killarney for a few days. I wonder if the emphasis we are placing on these tourists is worth the value we get. The Irish-American tourist is a valuable asset, because he comes to visit his relatives and friends.

The Minister touched on a really important point when he said that 30,000,000 British working people go on holiday annually and we scarcely attract one per cent of them. Indeed, if we subtracted the Irish exiles coming back from work in England to visit their families, and who are accounted as tourists, we would not have .5 per cent. British tourists of the figure the Minister mentioned. An all out effort should be made in that field because I believe Bord Fáilte loans and grants should be directed more towards helping ordinary hoteliers and guest-house owners. They are the people who cater for the biggest volume of tourists, the ordinary workers from Britain who save up their money for the year, come here to enjoy their accumulated savings and return home without a penny unspent.

As a member of the Dáil, of a local authority and of a tourist development body, I have had the utmost difficulty in securing information about the grants and loans available to local bodies and groups for small schemes of tourist development in rural areas. I would ask the Minister to get Bord Fáilte to issue circulars to such bodies in order to provide them with the information required. There are many schemes which could be done by local authorities and small groups as well as by private individuals to develop tourist amenities in their respective areas and I think the information that is now lacking should be made freely available to them.

In connection with our endeavours to attract tourists here from Britain, there are some people who are putting great obstacles in our way in this matter. When we invite tourists in here, we expect them to come as guests. Therefore, we should treat them as guests and there should be no reluctance on our part to fly the flags of all nations. Surely in this country we should be broadminded enough to see that there is no reluctance on our part to honour our guests by flying the flags of the nations to which our visitors belong. Misguided patriotism does no good to the tourist trade and does a lot of harm to us as a nation.

In general terms, I welcome the proposals in the Bill but before concluding would draw the Minister's attention to the serious overcrowding in passenger vessels plying between here and Britain right through the summer months. I can speak particularly for Rosslare. Right through the summer months, on practically every boat that arrives, thousands of people are simply thrown on the decks with no provision whatever for seating. This sort of thing is not going to help our tourist trade and I would urge the Minister to see that something urgent is done to relieve overcrowding on both trains and ships. After all, the Minister is the man responsible for tourist promotion and he should take a serious interest in the conditions in which people coming here, particularly mothers with young children, have to travel.

I welcome the opening of the Cork Airport. I believe it will help considerably in getting more visitors in here, particularly from Britain— people who have refused to come here till now because of the outrageous travel facilities. I hope C.I.E. will lay on an adequate bus service to and from the new airport so that visitors will have little difficulty in travelling to and from their destinations.

I also welcome the scheme for hotel trainees, but we have had complaints from many vocational education committees in the country against the conditions under which this scheme is being carried out. Who supervises these trainees? Who looks after their interests when they are finally trained and put into hotel jobs? Is it true, as has been published in many Sunday and morning papers, that advantage is being taken of these young people when they go to work?

I know the Minister will say the unions should look after them. That is true to a point, but many of these trainees are only probationers and are not under the full protection of the unions till their probationary periods are over. I would urge the Minister to see that some body or group is given responsibility to ensure that these trainees are not taken advantage of, and not used merely as cheap labour under the guise of tourist promotion. I believe the Minister has made a wise move in this Bill and I hope he and Bord Fáilte will succeed in attracting greater numbers of visitors here from abroad.

Mr. Cunningham

The proposals in this Bill are indeed very welcome to everybody throughout the country and particularly the tourist industry. It does mean that the tourist business in the country is now slipping into top gear and that we can begin to take a long-term view. We must have our tourist industry at the optimum point as soon as possible. Other countries are spending very much larger sums than we are and it is only by going as far as possible in as short a time as possible that we can be prepared for the world tourist business which is increasing year by year as more leisure and longer holidays with pay are made available. All these benefits to the wage earning class mean holidays and to many of them in the better-off countries it means holidays abroad.

According to the Minister we are concentrating on America and Britain. That is very wise indeed because the potential there is very great. If we can get a fair share of that we shall benefit very much. To get a fair share of it we must make preparations; we must improve our hotels; we must improve our transport to the country and in the country.

In connection with transport we find that in recent years groups from England, Scotland and Wales are being given facilities to bring buses across and to make round trips here. That is a very good development. The Minister should ensure that facilities for shipping these vehicles and also for shipping private cars to this country, ferry services, and so on, are improved. We do know that Bord Fáilte have co-operated in ensuring that the customs authorities at the various points along the Border do everything possible to make it easier for day trippers and other classes of tourists to come across the Border. They have asked the customs authorities to have as short a delay as possible at the various frontier posts. A speed-up in cross-Border travel has resulted from the efforts of the different development committees and from the representations by Bord Fáilte to the customs authorities.

I am glad to see that further moneys are made available for the expansion of our hotels and guest houses. The number of hotel bedrooms available is very much under the number we require and, while I agree with the previous speaker that more ordinary, homely accommodation in the smaller hotels is required, still in addition we must have the other type of hotel which has bedrooms with bath and hot and cold water.

I wish to refer to the tourist guide for America issued by Bord Fáilte. The first few pages have not changed for a number of years because in regard to the grading of hotels, the definition given to our grade B hotels is that some of them have hot and cold water in the bedrooms. It is not right to send out a special guide for America which indicates that in regard to our second class hotels, in other words the next to the top grade, Americans can expect to find bedrooms which have neither hot nor cold water. That is not the position. Most of our grade B hotels, as a matter of fact, our grade B and C hotels, have hot and cold water in all bedrooms; at least those which have not this facility would be a very small minority. Therefore that guide should be revised and brought up to date.

In Donegal, which is one of our finest tourist counties, we hear complaints that a fair proportion of the flow of tourists to the country is not directed to Donegal. That may be an exaggeration but it is a comment amongst people in Donegal in the hotel trade that when tourist organisations are brought here they are shown the South of Ireland. The first trip is to Killarney, the next to kiss the Blarney Stone, and the itinerary of many of these organised tours does not include Donegal. There is good ground for at least some of that criticism. The North should not be neglected in that respect seeing that we have excellent hotels, beautiful scenery, and so on, to show our visitors in Donegal.

Air travel is a great assistance to the tourist industry. Dublin and the south of Ireland are well catered for by air travel. The Minister might consider the possibility of having an airport in the north-west as well. The emphasis on the south is due in large measure to the fact that airports and good air services are available there.

This further encouragement by the Minister and the Government to the hotel industry is to be welcomed and will be very beneficial. It is true to say that the people in the industry are becoming very wide awake to the benefits they individually and the country in general can gain and are gaining from the tourist industry. We have a tourist-conscious people in the hotel industry who perhaps in the past did not put all they had into it but who now are very keen, very active and working very hard indeed towards the development of a better tourist industry. It is only when the people in the industry and the Department of Industry and Commerce co-operate that we can expect the doubling of our tourist trade and the income therefrom to which I look forward in the very near future.

Sir Anthony Esmonde

Everyone in the House will welcome this Bill which enables a greater sum of money to be placed at the disposal of Bord Fáilte. The House is grateful to the Minister for bringing in the Bill even at this late stage and even though he may be bringing it in for his successor. I notice that the Bill extends over a period of seven years, so I am sure the Minister's successor will appreciate it.

Mr. J. Lynch

Or successors—the plural.

Sir Anthony Esmonde

Tourism is one of our great untapped resources. One attractive tourist feature of Ireland which very few countries have to offer is the fact that one can go long distances without having to contend with enormous crowds. I heard this country described recently by a European as one great park. Perhaps that is one of our greatest tourist assets. With the exception of Scotland and remote countries, the same cannot be said of other countries. We should concentrate more on endeavouring to bring tourists to the more remote parts of Ireland.

There is to be a congress of international surgeons in this country which about 1,200 people will attend. It is suggested that there will be difficulty in accommodating them. That is understandable in view of the fact that the congress is to be held in Dublin. Practically every congress held in this country is drafted into Dublin. Many foreigners do not know that there is any place in Ireland other than Dublin. The majority of tourists to this country tend to come to Dublin. In a great many cases, they are directed by Bord Fáilte to Dublin. Posters displayed in foreign countries to encourage people to come to Ireland invariably invite people to "Fly Aer Lingus to Dublin direct" or to "travel via Holyhead-Dún Laoghaire to Dublin."

If we want tourists to go further afield than Dublin, we will have to advertise accordingly. Advertisements published by Spain, Norway, Scandinavia and other countries do not invite people to come only to the capital cities. That is an error Bord Fáilte has fallen into. It may be that they have these posters on hands and find it more economical to use them but I submit that people should be encouraged to visit parts of Ireland other than Dublin so that the tourist industry may be extended.

The major part of the tourist traffic to this country comes from the United Kingdom and it is the most beneficial kind of tourist traffic. A very large number of working-class people come here. They have a certain amount of money to spend and they spend it. In the majority of cases, they find their way to Dublin. Would it not be possible for Bord Fáilte to route people who come from districts south of a certain line in the United Kingdom through Rosslare Harbour or Cork instead of Holyhead-Dún Laoghaire to Dublin? I draw the attention of Bord Fáilte to that suggestion.

Mr. Russell

They could route them through Shannon.

Sir Anthony Esmonde

Shannon is in a particularly privileged position. Bills have been passed here to make sure that there are funds available at Shannon that are not available on the east coast. I agree that there are enormous possibilities in routing people through Shannon. Bord Fáilte would be far better occupied in encouraging tourists to come in through Shannon than in encouraging people to establish factories. The Chair may rule me out of order if I continue on this line but Deputy Russell interrupted me and disturbed the trend of my thought.

We have concentrated rather more on the very wealthy type of tourist than on working-class people. It may be desirable to get wealthy tourists here and to have first-class hotels, as we have in Dublin and other centres, but, in the main, we ought to devote a great deal of the money voted for tourism to encouraging working-class people to come here, in providing good accommodation for them and in advertising that accommodation.

Other tourists who are beneficial to us are family parties. Family parties spend more money than anybody else. They buy more. They buy knick-knacks for the children. They can buy many things here much cheaper than elsewhere. Notwithstanding the fact that they have not received any assistance from the State or semi-State bodies and the fact that they lack many facilities, such as good water supplies and sewerage, there are places in this country where the people, by their own efforts, have built up a small tourist trade to which families come on holidays year after year.

One example is Duncannon, one of the most beautiful spots in Ireland, just as beautiful as Kerry, Donegal, Connemara or any of the other places that are continually advertised. There is a magnificent bathing beach there where it is almost impossible for a child of three to drown. Duncannon has managed to build up a limited tourist traffic of its own and families go there year after year. There are innumerable such places entirely overlooked by Bord Fáilte. Bord Fáilte should send their officials around more to study the tourist potential in these places.

That poses another question. The previous speaker is a Deputy from Donegal and complained that Donegal is being neglected in the matter of tourism. I know that Bord Fáilte have nothing to do with tourist road grants, but at the same time, they must be in a position to advise as to where tourism is good and likely to be productive. The tourist road grants are directed to two or three counties which definitely proves to me that Bord Fáilte are still thinking on those lines. I do not say that in any spirit of hostile criticism. It simply is a fact.

The slow rate of increase in tourism is evident in what Deputy Cosgrave quoted here this evening. The rate of development is slower than in any other country in Europe, although we have more to offer. Therefore, we must do a little rational thinking. We must see why we are not making the progress other countries are making. Bord Fáilte should look into the question of the lesser known areas and see if they can encourage people to build guest-houses in those areas, or expand the existing guest-houses, and go in for the type of modern tourism, with all the labour-saving devices and so on which will give the best possible service to tourists.

To encourage tourists, we must have adequate amenities and facilities. The tourist development associations that are being formed in various counties, and seaside districts throughout the country, are worthy of more consideration from the Board. Many representations are made to me in my own county asking me to go to the Board and see if I can do anything with regard to securing these amenities. People are looking for simple things—perhaps a small job of reconstruction on a beach, the provision of a few bathing boxes or some such work. I always hear the same story about the heavy demand on the funds of the Board, but they have no time for the forgotten people in the backwaters.

The case I am trying to make is that there is an enormous potential for expansion. That expansion lies not in Dublin city, or even in Cork city, but in the hinterland where there are beautiful beaches and wonderful scenery. I know from my experience of going to Europe and mixing with Europeans that they cannot believe what we have to offer. They cannot believe that we have not exploited what we have to offer. For that reason, I welcome the provision of this money. I sincerely hope it will be directed to publicising the lesser known places. This country could be a tourist paradise. There are many people seeking peace and quiet today; they want to get away from the crowds. We should make this country a haven for them where they can spend a holiday with their friends. If we start a snowball like that, there will be no end to the tourism that will follow and tourism would then be what it should be, our second major industry.

Mr. Russell

I should like to join with other Deputies in saying that I welcome any effort by Bord Fáilte to increase our present substantial tourist trade. In a country like ours, with a deficit in our trading account somewhere in the region of £70,000,000 to £90,000,000, a sum of £42,000,000 is a very significant figure. I am quite certain that with more aggressive salemanship, particularly in Great Britain and on the Continent, that figure could be substantially increased, and tourism could play an even more important part in reducing our trade deficit.

As the Minister pointed out, this Bill seeks to do three things. Instead of paying to Bord Fáilte £500,000 a year, as has been the practice up to now, they will be paid an aggregate of £5,000,000, which the Minister estimates will last a minimum of seven years. Personally, I am rather reluctant to depart from established procedure. I do not see why Bord Fáilte could not have their annual grant increased from £500,000 a year to £700,000, which the Minister estimates to be the average figure for the next seven years. However, there may be good reasons for that.

The second purpose of the Bill is to increase from £3,000,000 to £5,000,000 the aggregate amount of loans which may be guaranteed. The Minister also proposes to eliminate the ceiling of £75,000 in respect of interest grants. Apart from commenting on the question of giving Bord Fáilte a round sum of £5,000,000 rather than an annual sum of £700,000, I have no comment to make.

However, I have comments to make on the efforts being made to attract tourism to this country. I find myself substantially in agreement with those who said our most valuable market for tourism is Great Britain and Northern Ireland. According to the Minister's statement, we have increased our share of the United States market over the past ten years from six per cent. to ten per cent., but still, ten per cent. of 800,000 American tourists is only 80,000 persons, whereas of the 30,000,000 British people who take their holidays away from home each year, 300,000 persons come here, or almost four times the number who come to us from the United States.

Even if the Minister's optimistic forecast that we can increase our share of the North American traffic to 20 per cent. is realised, it would still be substantially lower than the market which lies only a few miles from our shores. I believe that a great concentration on the British market, and particularly on the middle and working-class tourist, would pay far greater dividends to the country as a whole than a concentration on the American market, which, of necessity, must be a very expensive one.

We have had some experience of the cost of trying to get a share of the American market for our whiskey exports. Those efforts have been a sad failure, unfortunately. It now seems that instead of the tens of thousands we have been spending, we require to spend sums in the region of £500,0000 or £1,000,000 per annum on advertising before we can hope to get anything like a reasonable share of the American market for our whiskey. To some extent, that is the case in regard to this vast tourist market of 170,000,000 or 180,000,000 people. It is a market which is ringed about with cartels, agents and middlemen of all kinds, all of whom must either be paid or bought off in one way or another. With the contacts we have built up in England through those who have emigrated over the past 35 or 40 years, we can expect a far greater share of their tourist trade than we have at the present time.

There is a third market which has not been mentioned, the Continental market. I do not know what efforts Bord Fáilte are making to induce tourists from the Continent to come to Ireland. I believe there is a very substantial market to be tapped there. I should like the Minister to tell me what offices Bord Fáilte have opened on the Continent, and what success has attended the opening of such offices, if any. With the development of the European Economic Community, it is almost certain that we will come in closer contact with the Continental countries and now is the time to prepare for an expansion of the tourist trade from Western Germany, France and elsewhere on the Continent. One way of achieving what Deputy Esmonde spoke about, inducing tourists to come to the southern and western parts of Ireland, the less populated parts, would be to fly them in direct to Shannon, or Cork, or possibly Galway, if a flying field were established there.

In general, many of the facilities we can offer do not cost anything. There is no annual grant required in respect of matters like cleanliness, courtesy, or friendliness. We have a superabundance of friendliness in this country and plenty of courtesy. We are a friendly courteous people, attributes which cost nothing at all and from my experience of tourists, they count for far more than luxury hotels and all the flashy things you see in some of these new hotels going up throughout the country. Not that I wish to belittle those because I think there is a trade for the wealthier type of tourist, particularly from America, and it is up to us to get a share of that type of business.

Basically, we should concentrate on the more modest tourist who comes with his wife and perhaps his family and as one Deputy said, spends everything in his pocket and goes home "broke" but happy. Generally speaking, the wealthy tourist does not go into the shops and buy the small requisites on sale there. He generally goes to his hotel and stays there but perhaps buys a work of art costing 100 or 150 dollars and takes it home with him. As some Deputies pointed out, we have other natural amenities that cost nothing, such as roads that are largely free of traffic and magnificent scenery, much of which, unfortunately, is still blanked off by high hedges.

I do not think it would cost a lot to make available, possibly to the local authorities, some type of hedge cutter to cut down these hedges and let the tourists see more of our beautiful scenery. These things do not cost a lot of money but they make a big difference to people travelling through the country. The number of people coming in in coaches is increasing and these people like to see the country and are disappointed when they find high hedges adorning, if I might use the word, a great number of our roads. Another point is that the tourist coming here requires to travel in comfort and at a reasonable speed and I think there is still a lot of well-founded complaint with regard to travelling by steamer from England to this country. We might also be more generous in our terms to people coming here with cars. In certain Continental countries, when there is a minimum of four passengers travelling with a car the car is carried free of charge. We should also investigate the possibility of establishing air ferries for cars and also steamer car ferries. Anything that makes the tourist's journey from England or the Continent to this country quicker or more comfortable should be put into effect.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

These would be matters for the Minister for Transport and Power.

Mr. Russell

I should like to pay tribute to the producers of the monthly magazine Ireland of the Welcomes. It is very well produced. I do not know what its circulation is or to whom it is circulated, but I feel that if it were in wider circulation, it would have very beneficial effects on the tourist trade.

I should like the Minister to indicate what success has attended the establishment of a native souvenir industry. We have all had experience of the frightful so-called Irish souvenirs manufactured anywhere but in Ireland. We would all like to see that pseudo-Irish trade done away with as quickly as possible and well made souvenirs manufactured in this country.

Another recent and justified expenditure has been the renovation of Bunratty Castle. I know that, strictly speaking, it does not come within the Minister's province but is a matter for the Minister for Transport and Power, but the reason I mention it is its tremendous success last year when thousands of people visited it. In Limerick city, there is another monument of that type, King John's Castle, a twelfth century castle that would well repay renovation. I should like to see that carried out by Bord Fáilte and possibly if it were floodlit by night, it would be a very good tourist attraction.

I do not think we should allow this Bill to pass without commending the various tourist agencies for the energy and enterprise they have shown, particularly over recent years. Although they do not come within the ambit of this Bill, they have contributed to the success of the industry in no small way.

One Deputy suggested that these grants from Bord Fáilte should be available to local parish councils or development associations. If I recall rightly, the 1952 Act contained a provision whereby local development associations could receive loans or possibly grants. I wonder if any of those were ever given, or if that part of the Act has fallen into disuse. It would be a good idea to encourage local initiative and it might be a cheaper way of doing things, particularly in small areas not worthy of a major development scheme by Bord Fáilte.

Mr. Rooney

This is mainly an enabling Bill which increases the amount of grants which may be made to Bord Fáilte from £3,000,000 to £5,000,000 for the period ending in 1967. It gives us an opportunity to review the work of Bord Fáilte Éireann and those concerned with the development of the tourist trade. Considering the amount of loans and grants available in agriculture, which is our largest industry, the demands of this second largest industry are not very great. We should take this opportunity to express a special word of praise to Bord Fáilte for the very excellent report for 1960 which they made available to Deputies showing the achievements of the Board and the work carried out during the past 12 months. That report enables Deputies, with their local knowledge and experience, to pinpoint some of the needs in their districts, which will enable Bord Fáilte to go ahead with some improvements.

It is a remarkable fact that our air traffic facilities seem to be much better than our boat traffic facilities. The lack of adequate facilities at peak travelling time causes agitation almost every holiday season.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It would seem to be a matter for the Minister for Transport and Power.

Mr. Rooney

Apart from the work done by the Board in an organised way, there is still a lot to be done to cater for tourism in this country. Also, we must try to cater for Irish people who wish to spend their holidays at home. When it comes to the provision of facilities and amenities, most of the publicity refers to luxury hotels and huge schemes of accommodation for visitors. Although publicity is being given to these schemes, quite an amount of work is being done in the smaller hotels. We should cater for the middle class visitors rather than the very wealthy ones.

Somebody mentioned that the middle class people spend their money and go home "broke." When they are spending their money, we should ensure that there will be amenities for them. The emphasis should be on catering facilities for middle class husbands coming here with their wives and families for a limited holiday. If we examine any organised effort in that respect, we immediately think, for instance, of Butlin's Holiday Camp. An organised unit caters for people desiring the facilities made available there. We have also two places in Skerries where organised holidays are provided for English people, English wage-earners who come into this country. There are not many such places in Ireland which are designed to provide that type of holiday for English wage-earners.

It seems we ought, as far as possible, to go further in encouraging the establishment of more centres where English people can enjoy that type of holiday. The accommodation is not here. Great credit is due to Butlin's, Red Island, and so on, who organise these holidays during the winter. They plan the holiday for these people over there, who contribute to the holiday fund weekly and then come here to enjoy it. I mention those places to show that they are concentrating on providing holidays for people in England who come over here to Ireland.

It has been mentioned that 30,000,000 people go on holidays every year from England and that only one per cent. of that number, 30,000, come to Ireland. I feel we do not provide sufficient facilities to attract them here and that we could. For example, what beach facilities do we provide here, on the average, or have we attempted to provide here, compared with the beach facilities available at many of the well-known Mediterranean resorts? Of course, they are super places. I believe we could make an effort. We could select some places and provide organised amenities at some of the beaches.

I do not want to be taken as saying nothing has been done: it has. Several seaside resorts have been improved to a very great extent but if we compare any of them with the super beaches, where so many facilities are available, at many of the tourist resorts on the Continent, we realise that we have a long way to go. Have we any heated indoor swimming baths near any of our holiday centres? Messrs. Butlin's Holiday Camp provided one this year at considerable expense and it is proving a very attractive amenity. People who have visited that camp say it was money very well spent. That is one of the very many amenities we could attempt to provide at some of the more popular seaside resorts— places where people can swim, whether it is rainy or stormy outside. Instead of sitting indoors looking out at inclement weather and being denied the enjoyment to be expected at a seaside resort, people who have come here for a limited time to relax and to have a holiday would appreciate such amenities.

Bord Fáilte keep a careful eye on the charges and we should be very careful about them. Tourists should not be overcharged. Overcharging gives a bad impression and people may say it is far more expensive to have a holiday in Ireland than on the Continent. It is very bad propaganda from our point of view. Some steps should be taken to ensure that people who come here for a holiday will be given reasonable value for their money.

The angling aspect of our tourism seems to be developing rapidly. We have become aware of our great variety of fishing facilities. Apparently we are attracting, off-season, quite a number of people interested in angling. Even in England it is a very popular sport. It could be popularised to a much greater extent here. I consider that Bord Fáilte are doing a good job. Even if statistics show that progress is not as rapid as in other countries, at least they have made a bold start. They have shown enterprise.

When looking through the Report of Bord Fáilte Éireann, I noticed that very little was provided for the coast of County Dublin, stretching from Gormanston to Killiney. The provision of a boat slip at Malahide was mentioned. Unfortunately, although it has been provided, it is considered not as satisfactory as it might be. I hope Bord Fáilte are not finished with the boat slip at Malahide and that they will consult the local people about it so that it will be constructed and completed satisfactorily.

We have Skerries and Portmarnock and all these places along the east coast to which thousands of people travel on Sunday. It is difficult for people outside County Dublin to realise it but it is a fact that 20,000 people move out every Sunday from Dublin city along the coast as far as Gormanston.

Debate adjourned.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 12 noon on Wednesday, 26th July, 1961.