I shall be constrained to have Deputy McQuillan named in accordance with Standing Orders.
An Ceann Comhairle took the Chair.
Suspension of Members.
I have to inform you that Deputy McQuillan has refused to obey the Chair.
I move:
That Deputy McQuillan be suspended from the service of the Dáil.
I am accepting the motion of the Taoiseach and putting it to the House. The motion is that Deputy McQuillan be suspended from the service of the House.
Question put and declared carried.
Vótáil.
Will the Deputies asking for a Division please rise in their places?
Several Deputies rose.
Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 81; Níl, 15.
Tá
- Bartley, Gerald.
- Belton, Jack.
- Blaney, Neil T.
- Boland, Kevin.
- Booth, Lionel.
- Brady, Philip A.
- Brady, Seán.
- Brennan, Joseph.
- Brennan, Paudge.
- Breslin, Cormac.
- Burke, Patrick J.
- Calleary, Phelim A.
- Carter, Frank.
- Carty, Michael.
- Clinton, Mark A.
- Clohessy, Patrick.
- Colley, George.
- Collins, James J.
- Connor, Patrick.
- Corry, Martin J.
- Cotter, Edward.
- Crinion, Brendan.
- Crotty, Patrick J.
- Crowley, Honor M.
- Cummins, Patrick J.
- Cunningham, Liam.
- Dillon, James M.
- Dockrell, Maurice E.
- Dolan, Séamus.
- Donegan, Patrick S.
- Dooley, Patrick.
- Dunne, Thomas.
- Egan, Kieran P.
- Egan, Nicholas.
- Faulkner, Pádraig.
- O'Donnell, Thomas G.
- O'Higgins, Michael J.
- O'Higgins, Thomas F. K.
- O'Keeffe, James.
- O'Malley, Donogh.
- Ormonde, John.
- Flanagan, Oliver J.
- Flanagan, Seán.
- Gallagher, James.
- Galvin, John.
- Geoghegan, John.
- Gibbons, James M.
- Gilbride, Eugene.
- Gilhawley, Eugene.
- Gogan, Richard P.
- Governey, Desmond.
- Haughey, Charles.
- Hillery, Patrick.
- Hilliard, Michael.
- Hogan Patrick (South Tipperary).
- Jones, Denis F.
- Kennedy, Michael J.
- Lalor, Patrick J.
- Lemass, Noel T.
- Lemass, Seán.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Lynch, Celia.
- Lynch, Jack.
- MacCarthy, Seán.
- McEllistrim, Thomas.
- MacEntee, Seán.
- MacEoin, Seán.
- Meaney, Con.
- Medlar, Martin.
- Millar, Anthony G.
- Moher, John W.
- Mooney, Patrick.
- Moran, Michael.
- Ó Briain, Donnchadh.
- Ó Ceallaigh, Seán.
- O'Connor, Timothy.
- Rooney, Eamonn.
- Ryan, James.
- Smith, Patrick.
- Sweetman, Gerard.
- Timmons, Eugene.
Níl
- Browne, Noel C.
- Casey, Seán.
- Corish, Brendan.
- Coughlan, Stephen.
- Desmond, Dan.
- Donnellan, Michael.
- McAuliffe, Patrick.
- McQuillan, John.
- Murphy, Michael P.
- Norton, William.
- Pattison, Séamus.
- Spring, Dan.
- Tierney, Patrick.
- Treacy, Seán.
- Tully, James.
Tellers:—Tá: Deputies J. Brennan and Geoghegan; Níl: Deputies Dr. Browne and McAuliffe.
Question declared carried.
Deputy McQuillan is suspended from the service of the Dáil. Deputy McQuillan will please leave the Chamber.
I wonder do the members of this House realise——
The Deputy is not entitled to speak.
——that for the last 24 hours we have been sending out hundreds of our soldiers at a time when our key men are leaving the Congo.
I shall call on the Captain of the Guard——
Dr. Cruise O'Brien and the Commander-in-Chief have exposed the position in the Congo and have decided they will have no further hand, act or part in what is taking place there.
The Deputy must leave the House. I shall call on the Captain of the Guard——
Do you realise the position? Do you realise that we are sending our——
Deputies
Chair!
We are refusing to allow a discussion in this so-called Parliament.
I am not leaving this House until I get a guarantee from the Government that we shall get an opportunity of discussing the position of our troops. As an elected representative of this House, I shall not stand for allowing our troops out, in spite of the evidence given by Dr. Conor Cruise O'Brien and the Chief of Staff in the Congo. I am not prepared to accept that situation.
The Captain of the Guard approached Deputy McQuillan who refused to leave his seat.
By virtue of the power vested in me under Standing Orders, I suspend the sitting for a quarter of an hour.
Business suspended at 5.30 p.m. and resumed at 5.45 p.m.
I want to draw your attention, a Cheann Comhairle, to the fact that before you came in, we had a motion down asking for the suspension of the Standing Orders of the House in order to discuss——
That motion has been decided. The Deputy will resume his seat.
It was ruled out of order most unjustly——
The Deputy will resume his seat.
We believe that motion raises a most important issue——
It seems that the Deputy will not resume his seat. I shall have to name him.
(Interruptions.)
I move:
That Deputy Dr. Browne be suspended from the service of the House.
Question put and declared carried.
It has now been made clear our troops are being sent to the Congo——
(Interruptions.)
I have to call on the Captain of the Guard to remove Deputy Browne from the House.
We are now continuing to send our troops out to the Congo——
The Captain of the Guard approached Deputy Dr. Browne who refused to leave his seat.
By virtue of the power vested in me under Standing Orders, I suspend the sitting for a quarter of an hour.
Sitting suspended at 5.50 p.m. until 6 p.m.
A Cheann Comhairle, when you asked the Captain of the Guard to remove Deputy Dr. Browne from the House, I wonder was it necessary that a vote of the House should have been taken at that particular time?
I put the motion to the House. The House said "Tá" to the motion. There was no voice raised against the motion when I put it. I declared the motion carried. There was no objection raised.
I hold that the motion was not put to the House.
The motion was certainly put to the House. I put the motion to the House and I asked Deputies in favour of the motion to say "Tá". There was a cry of "Tá". Would the Deputy please resume his seat while I am speaking?
I consider it was a scandalous thing to have——
Would the Deputy please resume his seat?
I consider it was a scandalous thing to have Deputy Dr. Browne, a member of this House, removed from this House by force.
Would the Deputy please resume his seat?
I am quite entitled to protest here as far as the removal of Deputy Dr. Browne is concerned because I believe he was unfairly removed; he got no opportunity to defend himself.
I regret I must have the Deputy named for refusing to obey the Chair.
I move:
That Deputy McAuliffe be suspended from the service of the Dáil.
Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 84; Níl, 10.
Tá
- Bartley, Gerald.
- Blaney, Neil T.
- Boland, Kevin.
- Booth, Lionel.
- Brady, Philip A.
- Brady, Seán.
- Brennan, Joseph.
- Breslin, Cormac.
- Burke, Patrick J.
- Byrne, Patrick.
- Calleary, Phelim A.
- Crotty, Patrick J.
- Crowley, Honor M.
- Cummins, Patrick J.
- Cunningham, Liam.
- Dillon, James M.
- Dockrell, Henry P.
- Dockrell, Maurice E.
- Dolan, Séamus.
- Donegan, Patrick S.
- Dooley, Patrick.
- Egan, Kieran P.
- Egan, Nicholas.
- Esmonde, Sir Anthony C.
- Fanning, John.
- Faulkner, Pádraig.
- Flanagan, Seán.
- Gallagher, James.
- Galvin, John.
- Geoghegan, John.
- Gibbons, James M.
- Gilbride, Eugene.
- Gilhawley, Eugene.
- Gogan, Richard P.
- Governey, Desmond.
- Harte, Patrick D.
- Haughey, Charles.
- Hillery, Patrick.
- Hilliard, Michael.
- Hogan, Patrick (South Tipperary).
- Jones, Denis F.
- Kennedy, Michael J.
- Casey, Seán.
- Corish, Brendan.
- Coughlan, Dan.
- Desmond, Dan.
- Donnellan, Michael.
- Carter, Frank.
- Carty, Michael.
- Childers, Erskine.
- Clinton, Mark A.
- Clohessy, Patrick.
- Colley, George.
- Collins, James J.
- Corry, Martin J.
- Costello, Declan D.
- Cotter, Edward.
- Crinion, Brendan.
- Lalor, Patrick J.
- Lemass, Noel T.
- Lemass, Seán.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Lynch, Celia.
- Lynch, Jack.
- Lynch, Thaddeus.
- MacCarthy, Seán.
- McEllistrim, Thomas.
- MacEntee, Seán.
- MacEoin, Seán.
- Meaney, Con.
- Medlar, Martin.
- Millar, Anthony G.
- Moher, John W.
- Mooney, Patrick.
- Moran, Michael.
- Ó Briain, Donnchadh.
- Ó Ceallaigh, Seán.
- O'Connor, Timothy.
- O'Donnell, Thomas G.
- O'Higgins, Michael J.
- O'Higgins, Thomas F.K.
- O'Keeffe, James.
- O'Malley, Donogh.
- Ormonde, John.
- O'Sullivan, Denis J.
- Ryan, James.
- Smith, Patrick.
- Sweetman, Gerard.
- Timmons, Eugene.
- Murphy, Michael P.
- Spring, Dan.
- Tierney, Patrick.
- Treacy, Seán.
- Tully, James.
Tellers:—Tá: Deputies Brennan and Geoghegan; Níl: Deputies Tully and Casey.
Question declared carried.
Deputy McAuliffe is suspended from the service of the House. Deputy McAuliffe will please leave the Chamber.
May I suggest, Sir, that what is involved here is the prestige of the National Parliament. That is being brought into disrepute by all these proceedings. If we cannot get respect for the rulings of the Chair the House will be turned into a bear garden.
What is in dispute here is the question of the boys who have been sent out to the Congo, in whom everyone is interested.
The only question is whether the rulings of the Chair will be obeyed. If we cannot get respect for the rulings of the Chair, all our proceedings will end in confusion and disorder. I would urge upon everybody who has respect for the National Parliament to accept the rulings of the Chair, whether he agrees with them or not. If we do not work in this way, we just cannot work at all.
I want, without departing from the merits of the issues involved, to endorse most emphatically what the Taoiseach has just said. I take the gravest possible view of the proceedings at present in progress in this House. There is a simple issue involved here. It is a simple, net issue and nothing need be added to it. Are we in this Parliament prepared to support the authority of the Chair? The day we cease to do that, Parliament ceases to function.
We are concerned for no other matter than to ensure that democratic Parliamentary institutions will survive and will in our society prove themselves equal to any emergency or any problem with which our people happen at any time to be confronted. The indispensable sine qua non of that is, whether any one of us or any group of us agree or disagree with the ruling of the Chair, we should accept it. We have the Committee on Procedure and Privileges of this House to turn to if we wish to have those rulings reviewed or we can put down a motion and have any ruling of the Ceann Comhairle reviewed in an orderly way.
I endorse emphatically what the Taoiseach has said. I appeal to all Deputies on whatever side to accept the view which he has expressed, and which I now support, and preserve Parliament and keep freely within our hands the right to administer the affairs of our people.
We tried on our side to make an effective protest against what we considered to be an unfair attitude of the Chair when permission was sought from the Chair to discuss what we regarded as a matter of grave public importance. When that motion was submitted to the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I was not allowed to support the proposal that the House do adjourn to consider what we in turn considered to be a matter of grave national importance. There will be no real opportunity to discuss this matter up to, I suppose, 14th February. Any action which the Labour Party has taken is not so much a gesture against the ruling of the Chair as against what seemed to be the decision of the Government not to allow time to discuss this matter. We have as much respect for the Chair, whether the Ceann Comhairle or the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, as any other Party in this House.
May I intervene to say that I received no request from anybody for time to discuss this matter and I was not aware that the matter was going to be raised until Deputy Dr. Browne spoke?
I am not saying that the Taoiseach was asked directly. The Taoiseach was present here when that motion was put to the Chair. We have heard from both sides of the House a plea for law and order. I remember an occasion in this House when Fianna Fáil in their entirety supported Deputy Patrick Smith as he then was, when he refused to leave the House.
Is this the place for recrimination?
Let that be the end of it.
We hope that the protests that have been made will indicate to the Chair the desire of a large section of Deputies to discuss the matter we have endeavoured to discuss.
It is not a question of what Deputies desire. There is an orderly way of doing everything. Deputies wished to do it in a particular way which the Chair ruled was not permissible. There are other procedures open to Deputies.
Mr. Donnellan
When I heard the Taoiseach asking for support of the Chair, I remembered him and his Party walking into the Lobby against the ruling of the Chair.
The Chair exercises only delegated authority, that is, the delegated authority of the House. If any Deputy flouts the authority of the Chair, he is flouting the authority of the House. The Chair exercised that authority this afternoon in saying that a certain matter was not permissible for discussion. That authority was exercised after very careful and long consideration. It had no prejudice in any way. It endeavoured to consider the merits and demerits of the matter. It had very little notice that the matter was to be raised. The matter was discussed in a rather protracted way previously and the ruling was based upon those considerations. If Deputies think it would help matters, I suggest that we adjourn for 15 minutes, I must ask Deputy McAuliffe, who is still here, to leave the Chamber.
I move that the House adjourn for 15 minutes to consider the situation.
I will not accept that motion. Deputy McAuliffe must leave the House.
It might solve the situation, with all respect.
Is the Deputy the Leader of the House?
I am prepared to accept that motion if, as I assume I may gather from Deputy Casey, it means there will be no further disorder.
Does the Leader of the House so move?
I move:
That the sitting be suspended until 6.45 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 6.25 p.m. until 6.45 p.m.
Sitting resumed at 6.45 p.m.
Deputy McAuliffe had withdrawn.