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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 15 Mar 1962

Vol. 193 No. 11

Committee on Finance. - Vote No. 45—Transport and Power.

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That a supplementary sum not exceeding £10,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1962, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Transport and Power, including certain Services administered by that Office, and for payment of sundry Grants-in-Aid—(Minister for Transport and Power.)

When I reported progress yesterday, I was making the point that we could not compete with the Continent or the Mediterranean as far as seaside weather is concerned but that we have other things they have not got, largely related to sporting activities. I was saying a great advance had been made over the past number of years in this direction. I mentioned coarse fishing and I expressed the view that most people here would not bother with it and I think somebody then said they certainly would.

There is another kind of coarse fishing to which I would refer, deep-sea fishing, which has over the past number of years, by reason of various angling festivals, attracted visitors from France, England and from every part of the Continent to points along the west, east and south coast. This sort of activity is good because it brings a large number of people at a particular time when the town and the hoteliers know they are coming and can look forward to them with certainly. Indeed, during these festivals, I understand that private people in towns and villages have provided extra accommodation for travellers. If the Minister can encourage that sort of thing as a direct contrast to advertising, it will attract more people and spread out the tourist season as far as possible.

There have been sorry financial stories in connection with hotels which for two months of the year got fair business but were closed for the other ten. That used to be a profitable business but, having regard to the general overheads at the moment, it appears that it will start to become unprofitable unless a very high figure is charged for accommodation during those two months. Perhaps, hoteliers do charge a high figure. As it is, with the general overheads, they will soon have to charge a higher figure.

There are opportunities in regard to hunting. Many people will pay a very considerable sum of money to get out for a hunt. There are pockets in the country where people can with certainty hire a horse which will be a sound animal and take them across the country to enjoy a hunt such as they cannot have anywhere else in the world. In England, with certain individual exceptions, they never see a good ditch. On the Continent fox-hunting, so far as I know, is practically extinct, except in parts.

And no harm.

In Paris, they hunt in parks. In fact, there is nothing to compare with what is available in Ireland. There are places here where horses can be hired. In last month's issue of Fáilte there is an article about the Galway Blazers and about a family who do this business well. People have come from America to Shannon. Before they arrive, arrangements are made whereby they can have this sport during the period of their stay.

How many sheep and lambs do they kill?

I think that is good. It certainly expands our tourist trade. It is the sort of thing we can do not-withstanding the weather. The Minister might consider trying to co-operate with travel agents to see if in places where there are recognised packs it would be possible to get farmers' sons interested in keeping a horse for hire or even hiring out their own horses. The snag about doing this in a commercial way—I have tried to do it myself—is the old problem of supply and demand. At Christmas, if one attempts to do this sort of thing, one has ten customers for the animal being rented out. At other times, the horse is kicking his heels in the stall. Efforts should be made to have the sort of packet holiday which, apparently, has been organised through some travel agents in the vicinity of Shannon and in the country of the Galway Blazers. The whole thing could redound to the profit of the farmers and the farmers' sons who might like a bit of sport themselves. It would also contribute to the expansion of the tourist industry.

The highly prized Irish Derby to be run next year at the Curragh was also mentioned in this debate. One has only to refer to the present situation in relation to the National Hunt Festival at Cheltenham to realise the attraction that can be to people. There are many Irish people at the moment in Cheltenham or on their way back from Cheltenham who are taking their annual holiday. We could establish a much better spectacle if we got down to it. It appears as if some philanthropic agency has to face up to it. I should hate to think that our votes here would be made philanthropic agencies. As a result of the activities of the Hospitals' Trust, the Irish Derby will be a wonderful spectacle this year and will attract people and horses from all over the world. These people will bring with them thousands of other people. In this regard, the Minister has a fertile field in which to extend the tourist season and bring profit to the country and the tourist industry generally.

Notwithstanding the statistics supplied, I do not know what are the earnings from tourism. It is a very difficult figure to get. One has to take into account the numbers of people coming from across the Border and, in addition, the physical figure for what they spend and consume while in the country. We just cannot pin the figure down. It annoys me to hear people saying there are agriculture, industry and tourism. By and large, if you go into a lot of detail, you can get the net earnings from industry. If you go into less detail, you can get the figure for agriculture but when it comes to tourism you get to the point where it is lies, damn lies and statistics. I do not suggest that the figures indicate a bigger amount than is earned but they are not clinically accurate. They are figures that are adjustable but are open even to the opinion of the good people in the Statistics Office. For that reason——

The Deputy has no evidence of that whatever. He is charging the Statistics Office with issuing a fraudulent statement.

The Minister should not boil up. I did not interrupt the Minister. If the people in the Statistics Office read what I have said, they will find that I did not charge them. I said they were of necessity in the position that they had to relate the figures for tourism to what is spent. What they base that opinion on I do not know. I should be interested to know how they can estimate what the average tourist spends here on consumer goods, food, drink and tobacco and travel which is related to him and not to the citizens of the country. That must be charged to the credit side of the ledger when related to tourism. Much of it has to be a matter of opinion. That is not criticism of the people in the Statistics Office. In fact, it is sympathy extended to them in their dilemma. Before I was interrupted by the Minister, I was not saying that tourism earned less than the official figure indicated. I indicated that I did not rely on the figures, not because of any shortcomings in the people in the Statistics Office, but because of the fact that they were working in a most difficult medium.

Finally, I would say that tourism is one of the enterprises with which we should press ahead. If we do press ahead with it, we have got to have individual and new ideas related to sporting events and to the wonderful spectacles we have here; related also to our way of life and when we say way of life, it is no good going up the blind alley of what we think is good or cultural or educational or pleasant. It is a question of what we find the Frenchman or the Englishman wants. If we can do that and so extend the period of our tourist trade from these two months in summer, which I believe in the future just will not produce profit, we will expand and achieve a greater contribution from this industry towards our national wealth than we get at the moment.

Usually when comment is made on the tourist industry, one gets something like a mutual admiration society. Everybody agrees that everybody else is doing wonderful things for tourism. The general impression is given that everything that possibly could be done to encourage tourists is being done, and as a matter of fact, has been done for a number of years, and that for that reason, there is no doubt that the tourist industry has been firmly established with the assistance of State bodies. Further, the impression is given that therefore there is not very much more that need be done.

Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. I agree with the last speaker when he queries how the figures, not only for tourists but for the amount of money spent by tourists, are compiled. I feel it is out of a spirit of optimism that the people who compile the figures feel that everything is grand. They are doing so well there must have been that amount of money spent and there must have been those numbers of people as tourists over the years. I understand there is some type of card system used as a check at seaports and airports and from the figures thus acquired—whether they are right or wrong—they proceed to compile a set of figures which are then handed out as being the nearest thing to gospel we can get.

Everybody who goes to the trouble of thinking about it will realise that the vast majority of people who come in here annually, during the summer period, at Christmas, or Easter, or any other time, are people who, having left this country, are returning for holidays. There can be no doubt about that. If some people like to regard those people as tourists, they are entitled to do so, but most of us welcome them back as brothers, sisters, uncles and friends coming to enjoy a short holiday with the money they earned abroad. It is very unfair that anybody should try to class that type of person as a tourist. I know these people themselves feel very strongly about it. They feel that when they have dropped into the tourist class, they cease to be Irish people and are just people coming to a strange country for a holiday.

There are a number of firms, organisations and individuals doing a lot for tourism in proportion to what is being spent by the Tourist Board. There is one industry—let us call it an industry because of the employment it gives—to which I shall refer, that is, a holiday camp in my constituency. Up to last year, they had a proportion of beds representing one-sixth of the entire bed accommodation in the whole country. They are increasing their availability of beds this year by, I think, 25 per cent. Those people have been encouraging tourists and attracting many people to this country on holidays and they do not get any money at all from the State or any tourist body for that purpose. They have got a grant for some of the amenities they provide in the camp.

As far as their publicity is concerned, they have a system which could very well be copied by the Tourist Board. They do not try to encourage millionaires to come here. It is notorious that when millionaires or very well-to-do people come here for holidays, they come on what is known as package deals and spend very little of their money, no matter how much they may have, in the locality in which they spend their holidays.

The firm to which I am referring send to England, to the towns and to the factories, and encourage ordinary working-class people to come here, people who will come to spend what they saved as their holiday fund. They are coming here every year in increasing numbers. If other people made the same effort, the number of genuine tourists coming here would increase enormously. I know an individual who has a small amount of accommodation for boys and girls coming in parties of 40, 50 or 60. That man has had inquiries from England and if he could accommodate all the people who sought accommodation, the figures would run very close to 1,000 this year. He cannot do it. The main reason he cannot is that he has been negotiating for the past six or seven years for a grant and so many strings are attached to it that by the time he gets it, if he ever does, he will be a very old man with no further interest in tourism.

I believe that if the Tourist Board were sincere in their efforts to attract genuine tourists, they would endeavour, without long drawn out and protracted negotiations, to assist the small hoteliers, particularly in the country towns and seaside villages and towns, who are so anxious to build up accommodation, first of all, to make a living for themselves and secondly, in doing so, to accommodate tourists who are anxious to come here. My main point in speaking on this Supplementary Estimate is to point out that if those people to whom I have referred can find it possible in their limited way to contact not tens or hundreds but thousands of people anxious to come as tourists, then surely a body such as Bord Fáilte should be able to do very much more.

There are a number of grants available for amenities at seaside resorts and I should like to ask the Minister to explain what system is adopted in the selection of the seaside resorts to which the grants are to be allocated. We all know there are seaside resorts throughout the country—I make particular reference to my own constituency where we have the East Meath coast, one of the safest in the country—in respect of which it is apparently impossible to get amenity grants of any kind. Perhaps there is a key of access to such grants and perhaps the Minister will let us into the secret when he is replying of how some of the large amounts of money being spent in this way could be channelled into areas such as those to which I have referred.

There is a great shortage of the small type of hotels catering for the ordinary type of tourist. The accent seems to be on the bigger, plush hotel, the one that can supply everything for very high charges. We seem to forget that the vast majority of the tourists who come here are working-class people and we would be less than honest if we suggested that those people in their own homes were used to the amenities supplied by those plush hotels. What those people need are clean, comfortable hotels at cheaper rates. I think it is time Bord Fáilte realised that and made available to the smaller hotels throughout the country some assistance to help them to improve their accommodation.

I remember a few years ago a hotelier in an English town succeeded in getting a very large number of people interested in coming across to Dublin to be accommodated in the same type of hotel as he was running —one of the moderate hotels where, perhaps, certain people would not like to dine. It was a very nice little place where comfortable accommodation was provided at a reasonable charge. Bord Fáilte were asked if they would be prepared to assist in the promotion of such hotels and one of the senior officials of the board was asked to meet this gentleman in this hotel. He did not turn up. This man came all the way from England but there was nobody there to meet him and a phone call elicited that the board were not interested.

It is too bad that Bord Fáilte, or any other State-aided body, should have so little regard for the plain people—for the person who is prepared to spend £50 or £100 on his holiday and who wants to get good value for that money. I submit to the Minister that such people should be catered for, because, after all, they form the backbone of our tourist industry.

Throughout the country during the tourist season, and occasionally during the off season, we find certain hoteliers increasing their charges. I know Bord Fáilte do everything they can to remedy that. To be fair to Bord Fáilte, they have made attempts to straighten this out but there are still people in cafés, hotels and souvenir shops who make every effort to extract the last halfpenny possible from the unfortunate people who have to depend on them for service. It was said here recently that people mulcted in this way are not likely to come again after the treatment they get. While saying this, I should like to emphasise that there are very many establishments who go out of their way and bend backwards to be decent to tourists. However, it is the duty of somebody —of the Minister and the people he controls — to make a big effort to remove these blots, to deal with the people who do such a lot of harm to the tourist industry.

In most of the tourist guides one picks up nowadays, one finds all the information required about such things as the all-Ireland final, or an international match at Dalymount Park, but very little about the local events which really are representative of the Irish way of life. I have travelled a bit and when I go into a foreign country, I do not immediately rush to the capital: I am more interested in seeing how the people of the area I intend to visit live, enjoy themselves, and what national sports they participate in. I suggest that much more publicity should be given to events at local level here. There is not a Sunday afternoon when there is not a Gaelic match, soccer game, golf tournament or tennis match in any part of this country, but very little information about these events is given to tourists. That situation should be remedied.

The question of the type of tourist who comes here is a matter which must be fully analysed. If the Minister goes to the trouble of finding out the types of persons who come here and catering for their tastes rather than for the tastes of those he would like to come, he will be doing a good job. In this respect, I should like to refer briefly to the monthly magazine issued by Bord Fáilte. A good improvement has been made in it recently and I should like to compliment those responsible. At one time, they seemed to be under the impression that Ireland consisted of a narrow strip from Killarney, missing the country around it, and coming down at Achill and then up to Donegal.

That attitude has been changed and we now find in this magazine quite good pen pictures of places of interest in all parts of the country. Those responsible for that magazine are doing very well. I hope they will keep it up and see that the tourist literature generally, apart altogether from that magazine, is improved. There should be available to prospective travellers in this country maps showing not only Killarney and the other better known places but some of the lesser known places like Tramore——

And Avoca?

——or the Boyne Valley. The Boyne Valley has been neglected by the Tourist Board. One of the most historic towns in this country is Trim but it seems to be completely neglected by everybody, including C.I.E. I suggest it is worthy of greater consideration, particularly in view of the number of ancient monuments there on which very large amounts money have been spent over the years. It would be a very good idea if detailed information were made available about such places to people visiting them for the first time. I include in this, course, Navan and Kells. If people came here once, I have no doubt they would come back again.

The Boyne Valley is beautiful, and much more attention should be given to it in the publications issued by the Tourist Board. I know that people here and elsewhere will produce a single document showing a reference to Trim or Tramore and say: "There is the evidence that we are giving publicity to those places." It is a fact that in a great number of the documents that are issued places like that are not completely ignored. As a matter of fact a document was issued to a travel agency some years ago by the Tourist Board in which there was some extraordinary geography. Towns and villages were moved around and some places which we in the country districts are very proud of were completely ignored. I understand that document has been changed since but I am amazed at that type of document in which so many of the places which are available to the Tourist Board are completely ignored. They moved towns like Mornington and Laytown into Louth, and other towns were moved into the neighbourhood of Dublin. I know those are small matters but they are details which should not be allowed to pass, and whoever is responsible for editing those documents should at least ensure that they are correct. I understand that one of them listed a ball-room which had been closed for about 20 years. I wonder what a traveller who came 10 or 15 miles to attend a function there would say when he found that it had been turned into a fisherman's hut.

I do not want to hold up the House unduly. The Minister should remember that (a) the majority of the people who come to this country annually are returning home on holiday and would come here anyway, and that therefore it is unfair to classify them as tourists and try to take the credit for bringing them here; and (b) the best spenders in the tourist industry are the people who have earned their money the hard way and are coming for a few weeks holidays. Those are the two points that should be remembered, and they are the people for whom we should cater.

All sides of the House will agree that one of the greatest potentials for expanding our economy is the tourist trade. That is very evident from the fact that there is increasing demographic pressure in all countries at the moment. The great advantage Ireland has to offer to a tourist is that he can have a holiday during which, if he brings his motor car, he will not be driving bumper to bumper along the main roads, as happens in other countries. He can get out into the open spaces away from the crowds and enjoy himself, and have a leisurely and restful holiday here. That is a point that should be repeated and stressed not only at home but everywhere abroad.

I do not think due attention is paid to the question of advertisements abroad. If you go into any railway station in this country you will see advertisements for practically every European country stuck up here and there. Even countries as far away as Scandinavia and Holland have their amenities advertised on posters in every station. It is my experience, from travelling quite a good deal abroad and in the United Kingdom, that there is not sufficient advertising of the beauty spots of Ireland. Admittedly, one sees advertisements for Killarney and Donegal, and sometimes there is a passing reference to Connemara, but those places are well known to tourists, and have been known for a number of years, and some of those advertisements have been in existence for the past 30 or 40 years.

We have something to offer to the world today that everyone is looking for, that is, a place to which they can get away to lead a peaceful life or have a restful holiday. That is a point that should be stressed in our advertisements. We should also have more advertisements abroad. A bigger sum of money should be voted in this House to ensure that our tourist facilities are made known to the outside world.

As the previous speaker said, we should cater for all sections. We must cater for the better-off type of tourist who brings quite a lot of money here. We must have more hotels with bathroom facilities such as they have in other countries, because that is what the better-off type of tourist is looking for. He is prepared to bring his family and spend money here, and he is looking for the more exotic type of facility: for hunting, race meetings and the better type of fishing available on our rivers, such as salmon fishing, apart from coarse fishing.

We must also be mindful of the middle-class tourist who has not a tremendous amount of money, but has a certain amount which he is prepared to spend. We must have good hotel accommodation available for them not only in Kerry, Donegal and Connemara and a few places like that, but everywhere. We must cater for that type of person with guest houses. There are guest houses all over Ireland, on the west coast, the south coast and the east coast and in some of the more attractive inland places. There are even a few in the Boyne Valley, in the Slaney Valley, and in Wexford. The middle-class tourist should be catered for and encouraged to come here.

As the previous speaker also mentioned, the working-class person is also a potential tourist and a very good spender. The working-class tourist comes here from the United Kingdom. In fact, the bulk of our tourist traffic comes from there. The United Kingdom is close to us and we have a common language. Working-class tourists want to know where to go and to be advised where to go. They must be informed that there is hotel accommodation available for them in Kerry, and in the less well-known places. When that type of person decides to go on a holiday he works out his plan of campaign beforehand. Bord Fáilte could advise him by having data available showing where he could have a holiday which would meet his particular requirements.

When I am travelling I always look in hotels for literature about Ireland and I find it very difficult to get it. When I go into a hotel I see on a table a huge accumulation of literature dealing with the tourist potential in many parts of Europe but I have never seen in a European hotel any literature dealing with Ireland. We now have a tourist development agency in Wexford which was opened by the Director of Bord Fáilte. The last time I was going abroad, I got some literature there and dumped it everywhere I could. I dumped it in a hotel in Strasbourg, in a hotel in Paris, and in a hotel in Rome. I left it in railway stations and depots frequented by travellers. I had the opportunity of returning to the hotels in Strasbourg and Paris and I found that although I had given them a sizeable amount of material, it was all gone.

Therefore—the idea of Germany occurs to my mind—would it not be to the advantage of Bord Fáilte to send an agent abroad, not to post up notices, but to dump literature about Irish tourism in the numerous hotels? Ireland has been on the map to a considerable extent in recent years, as we have been participating in international events and councils and the major return from that, apart from national prestige, should appear in tourism. Therefore, it is worthwhile for the Minister to consider having an official or agent, or establishing agents, in foreign countries, paying them nominal fees, to try to put out literature about Irish tourism in hotels abroad.

I think Irish Travel is a very well-produced journal which is improving as time goes on. I do not know its circulation: the Minister might be able to indicate it, when replying. It seems there is an enormous potential for circulating that journal in every possible country. If we had agents doing that work, it would be of great advantage. I do not think Irish Travel is sold—Deputies get a free copy of it— but even if it is, if there were agents to dispose of it, without remuneration to the producers, the resultant dissemination of knowledge about Ireland would be great incentive to tourists to come here.

While the Minister may not be able to do anything about the difficulties of travel agencies, I want to mention a recent case where a person asked me about the prospects of setting up a travel agency in a part of the country where I felt it would be very desirable. I endeavoured to find out for him the means by which he could become a travel agent, with an agency for one of the airlines, such as Aer Lingus, or for shipping companies trading to this country. I found would-be agents had to surmount almost insuperable difficulties and that, in fact, it is not possible to get an agency unless one is already established as a tourist agent. Perhaps Bord Fáilte could come to the rescue. If Deputies or others likely to hear of people seeking agencies were to get in touch with Bord Fáilte, does the Minister feel that would help people to get agencies in different areas? That would mean more package deals. These new-founded agencies, I understand, are now free to do package deals for people going out from here and perhaps what I suggest would mean that people could come in under package deals also. Perhaps the Minister would consider these matters.

The first duty of every Deputy after his duty to the National Parliament is to his constituency. In my constituency there are extremely beautiful places which are not advertised. People must know of them but the world generally, and intending tourists, do not. Coming out of New Ross along the River Barrow, which is a well-wooded expansive river, there is perhaps one of the most beautiful parts of Ireland. I suggest to the Minister that, so far as he has a right of direction in the matter, he should ask Irish Travel when producing their next issue to include a few photographs of this area. I was amazed some years ago to discover what a beautiful place it is. The river is entirely navigable and it occurred to me that such places as that are completely over-developed for tourism in every other country. It would be quite possible to have a considerable tourist development of our inland waterways. Admittedly, there has been some attempt at development and I understand that on the lake which connects with the Shannon at both ends, Lough Derg, there is already a certain amount of traffic, but a big drive should be made for these waterways generally. They offer a very relaxing holiday, providing an alternative to anxious driving of cars. The areas I have mentioned should be given favourable consideration.

There are many other beauty spots in the South of Ireland which are practically unmentioned in any publicity. Sometimes they receive casual notice as, for instance, in connection with the Wexford Festival. That festival has a tourist potential but not in the same sense as scenery that could retain its appeal throughout the tourist season.

The value of the stakes for the Irish Derby this year has been mentioned as a tourist attraction. I fully agree but I should like to put this to the Minister: we have the best steeple-chasers in the world. Every famous steeplechaser was bred in Ireland and practically every steeplechaser had his nursery training in chasing on the point-to-point field. I suggest it would be of advantage to Bord Fáilte to sponsor a steeplechase for horses that have run in point-to-points, not necessarily in Ireland, but anywhere. I think there is a big opening for that.

I have tried to convey that I am happy about any efforts that have been made by Bord Fáilte. Perhaps the Minister would consider the points I have put to him. By doing what I have suggested, the advantages of tourism will be more widely disseminated. That is what we want to see. We want every area to get its share because every area has a tourist potential. Through the Minister, I ask the Bord Fáilte officials to concentrate as much as possible on the development of small areas because the time will come, and it is not too far off, when people everywhere will become more travel-minded and we shall have opportunities of dealing with these people and we must have accommodation to offer. The accommodation in the big centres will not be sufficient. It will be needed all over the country.

Bá mhaith liom cúpla fochal a rá maidir leis an Meastachán seo. It is gratifying to notice the very deep interest being taken on all sides of the House in tourism. It is encouraging because tourism is a very important arm of our economy. It is not so long since An Tostal was founded but it did not get the reception I thought it should have got at the time. Since then things have changed a great deal and people have come to realise that tourism is a very important money-spinner. There is a lack of knowledge abroad about the facilities available for people who visit this country. Many of the maps supplied to tourists are out of date. Railways are shown on them that do not now exist and these maps should be brought up to date as quickly as possible.

Something should be done to induce more of our own people, our exiles, to return. They may wish to come here but they fear that if they do, there will be no accommodation for them. We should cater more for the ordinary type of person and provide the accommodation they need. My experience of visiting hotels is that there are too many porters and pages and too much swank in them. Unless a person is armed with a bagful of golf clubs, he does not get the attention that is often provided for snobbish foreigners who come here to sneer at our way of life.

I am not saying that we should not extend all the courtesy we can to the wealthy people who come to our shores but it would be wrong for us to ignore the plain people. There should be accommodation and a welcome for the plain people, and particularly for our own exiles. They should be met with friendliness and with courtesy and we should have for them the ordinary accommodation they require. There is no need for so much lavishness but we should try to bring it home to our own exiles that we have progressed considerably in the past 40 years, that we have fairly decent houses, guest houses and small hotels and that we can provide adequate accommodation for them. If we did that, we would add considerably to the number of people coming into the country.

The first thing any tourist will look to is the food. If he is satisfied with the food given, he may afterwards, by way of relaxation, go out to look at the scenery; but if he is not satisfied with the food and the cooking, it would take a great deal of scenery to convince him that this country is a paradise for tourists. I do not think there is any great necessity to have menus in French. Not all the plain people can afford to spend a fortnight or a month in France and not all of them have the advantage of a secondary school education to make themselves proficient in French. Our approach to the matter should be to have our menus in our own language and, if there is need for a second language, in English.

A very old established firm in this country, Messrs. Guinness, are not ashamed or afraid to advertise their products in the national language. They deserve every encouragement for doing so. I know that horse racing, tennis and golf have an attraction for a certain type of person, but quite a number of our people who had to go to England or America to earn a livelihood had not much practice at horse racing or tennis or golf. It is our Irish Ceilidhes, our Irish concerts and feiseanna that we should publicise for these people. More publicity should also be given to the new tourist resorts. People who are used to seeing the old hackneyed seaside names should be made aware that there are inland places where they can get reasonable accommodation for holidays.

It would not be a bad idea if, when the housing programme is nearly completed, some attention could be given to the building of an additional room to farmers' houses in the coarse fishing areas so that people interested in that sport could come there and bring their families with them. Development associations have done quite a lot in recent years but there seems to be duplication in the brochure material. Very often, the brochures issued for Donegal or Galway, showing a man catching a fish, show the same man catching a fish in Kerry or elsewhere in the south. Tourists catch on to these things so a national brochure should be published.

It is very important for us to get home to the ordinary people that we have made advances, that our standards of living have improved, that our accommodation has increased and that we welcome people who are willing to come amongst us and spend their money. We should let it be known that we will do everything we can to help them enjoy their holidays. There is too much moaning and groaning about the Irish weather from everybody we meet in town and countryside. People are too often inclined to give the impression to the foreigner that it is always raining in this country and that when it is not raining, it is snowing. Our climate is nice and suitable and it is a pity that some of the people who talk like that have not travelled more extensively abroad so that they could see what the weather in foreign places is like.

My own ideas on tourism were shattered recently. I happened to be in Achill in the summer time and saw a tremendous number of people there, so I thought the hoteliers in Achill must be doing rather well. I was there much more recently at a meeting and we were assured that the people are not doing so well at all. We were informed that the smaller hoteliers in Achill could not avail themselves of the loans and grants being made available by Bord Fáilte and that they were not being treated at all reasonably, with the result that the accommodation which was so necessary could not be provided. They also said that any scheme sponsored by Bord Fáilte in that area, or about to be sponsored, was designed in a way which did not suit the local people or meet the ideas of the people there who were trying to develop tourism.

Bord Fáilte, like Telefís Éireann, are trying to face in two directions. As far as their activities in the west are concerned they do not seem to know what way they are going. They seem to be set on a course to meet the requirements of millionaires. Even though there may be a great many millionaires in the world they are still in a minority. I would point out to the Minister and to Bord Fáilte that millionaires are millionaires simply because they save their money, not because they spend it. There would be a great many more millionaires if more people saved their money in the way some of these people do who come here for a cheap holiday. They do not come here to spend. The person who comes here to spend money is the person who has family ties with this country. These are the people we should cater for and instead of building colossal hotels in Dublin, Limerick, Cork and elsewhere we should make reasonable facilities available in the rural areas and along the west coast where people would go if hotel accommodation were available. No matter what type of advertising we do, it is no use our hoodwinking ourselves that we are bringing in large numbers of non-nationals. Even though Bord Fáilte seem to be anxious to give money to big hotels, I can assure them there are many "religious" cooks in these hotels and a lot of what they produce is either a sacrifice or a burnt offering. If they were not as anxious about sending out inspectors and were more practical they would achieve better results. They will send down to the west some damsel with a painted face, perhaps with her stockings on inside out, to dictate to the ordinary man in the country who knows his business far better than she does. Most of these inspectors have no experience of human beings at all. The ordinary person coming to the country for a holiday does not carry a bag of golf clubs or some other status symbol. However, he has one symbol which is of importance to the hoteliers and the business people of this country, that is the dollar bill or the pound note.

I find it difficult to understand how Bord Fáilte or anyone else, in computing returns for tourist traffic, can discriminate between money spent by tourists and money which represents emigrants' remittances. It is impossible to do it. I believe the two have just been mixed together and that the figures are being used to reduce the figure for emigrants' remittances and to boost the figure for the amount allegedly coming from tourism. I do not believe the number alleged to come here come at all. Apparently the weather does not matter because the worse the weather the more tourists we get. No reduction is ever shown. Some proper method of computing the exact expenditure of tourists should be devised. Bord Fáilte should turn their minds to the ordinary person who comes here on holidays rather than build luxury hotels which may be fine white elephants in a small number of years.

Bord Fáilte does very little to develop sea fishing. Sea fishing along the west coast can be a terrific attraction because we have the finest fishing grounds in Europe. There are people down there who could throw a line from their beds and catch fish. There is a dance hall where you can fish from the balcony. No effort is being made to advertise fishing facilities or to provide further facilities for fishing. If we in the West apply for a grant or loan to Bord Fáilte we are circumvented by red tape: we must employ certain architects and contractors; we must do everything according to the book. One would think it was the Bible we had to follow or that Bord Fáilte were infallible. If they send any broadminded sane person down to the west of Ireland he will very soon find that their standing is not very high. I would ask them before they do more harm in that part of the country to make every effort to discover the real requirements of the people of the West and help the people to meet those requirements.

Many Deputies have mentioned the Irish weather and that is the reason I am on my feet. I would take the Minister to task about the advertising of Bord Fáilte in regard to my constituency and the south-east of the country generally. Day in and day out we are told that the West has the best of everything. Just now we were told they have the best fishing. We have some claim in that regard. There was more fish caught in Dunmore in the last five years than was caught in all the other ports in Ireland together. There is better deep sea and game fishing off the south coast than in any other part of Ireland. As far as salmon fishing is concerned, we have the famous Blackwater, the Suir, the Barrow and the Nore, four great rivers in the south-east of Ireland. There is not enough advertising of these.

As far as the weather is concerned, the records of the Meteorological Office show beyond doubt that for years and years the south east of Ireland has the lowest rainfall and the greatest numbers of hours of sunshine in this country. The ancient people of Ireland knew that because the first name the estuary of Waterford had from them was "the harbour of the sun." These are the things that should be advertised and stressed. I am getting a little tired even of the songs about the Hills of Donegal, the Kerry Dancers, Galway Bay, Moonlight in Mayo.

What about the Rose of Mooncoin?

Mooncoin is not so bad at all, where they have good hurlers, good men and good dogs. These are the things that should be mentioned. A good deal has been said about fishing. A great number of people have been attracted to fishing because of something with which the Tourist Board had nothing to do, the Inland Fisheries Trust, that was established by the Leader of my Party, Deputy Dillon. That has brought us and will continue to bring us many tourists.

I should like to stress the value of coarse fishing. Every Deputy who has spoken agreed that it is the ordinary working man who comes from Great Britain who is our biggest tourist potential. These men have no big cartons of trout or salmon fly. They would love to fish. Some of them never did very much fishing and some of them never did anything in the way of fishing beyond throwing a line into the canals full of tin cans and old beds. They would love to come here for coarse fishing if they knew where to go. There is great coarse fishing to be had all along the Irish coast. In the vicinity of Tramore and the Waterford estuary there is wonderful fishing. There are wonderful fishing opportunities at Woodstown. That never appears in a folder. I would draw the Minister's attention to that.

I commend the Minister and the Tourist Board for saying that we should have great hotels. They should have everything that the great international hotels of the world have. It is good for the prestige of the country to have these hotels. I never felt that more than when I was in exile and met a man who had left Ireland. This man went to a great American city and became a very great man. When he came home to Ireland, I brought him to a hotel and he said: "Thanks be to God, the hotels here are as good as any." These things count. Even though not many people go to these hotels, they add to the prestige of the country.

Let me speak of the ordinary boarding house keepers. Many of these people, without the aid of any grants, have done up their houses. They might have only two or three rooms. They put on hot and cold water. They installed new bathrooms. I know several such houses to which the people come back again. They like to stay at these places. Even wealthy people come to stay at these places, not because they want a cheap holiday, but because they can enjoy the Irish way of life. For a tourist the best way he can get it is to stay at an ordinary good boarding house where he will have up-to-date accommodation and reasonably good cooking based on Irish dishes which are traditional in the area.

These small boarding houses find it hard to get on the register of Bord Fáilte. It would be reasonable to add another section to the register outside the ordinary guesthouses. I would appeal to the Minister and the officers of Bord Fáilte to include ordinary boarding houses. These people know their business and they are open to any kind of inspection. I would make a special point of asking the Minister and the officers of Bord Fáilte to make a note of that.

Deputy Donegan spoke about hunting in Ireland and bringing people to this country to hunt. I had some experience of that. You do not bring many people by that means but I suppose it is good for prestige. These people would come anyway. We have an idea that there is no hunting like our hunting. The Deputy mentioned the Galway Blazers and other packs. I brought a very good hunting man to another part of the country and I asked him what did he think of it. He said he could ride over it on a bicycle. In the south-east of the country we have great packs and great hunting. We have the Kilkenny hounds, the Waterford hounds, the Wexford and Tipperary hounds. I would stand these packs up against any pack in the world. They ride over every kind of obstacle and that is what the Englishman wants. In his own country the terrain tends to become monotonous. In Ireland, on the other hand, there are all classes of obstacles—stonefaced fences, single fences, brook banks, double banks, single banks and, sometimes, gaps. There are plenty of sceachs thrown in which will test the hearts of both horses and huntsmen. These are the things they come to Ireland for. Before I sit down, let me say it is good to have Deputies saying that we want to bring English people here in view of the fact that only a few short years ago I heard people sitting in the front benches of Fianna Fáil saying that we were selling our steaks for paper. I shall mention their names if the House wishes.

I do not think the matter arises.

People come here to spend dollars and pounds. They are welcome to spend them here now but a few short years ago they were not welcomed by members of Fianna Fáil.

They have always been welcome to spend their money here.

They were not welcome twelve years ago.

We never felt under any compliment to them. We felt that we were giving good value.

The Tourist Board was started by us in 1938.

It took an awful long time to get going.

At least we started it.

It took an awful long time to get going. I do not see much advertising in relation to the constituency from which I come. The people there have done commendable things. A small group of people got together in Waterford and started the Waterford festival. There was an opera festival in Wexford and another in Cork. I believe there is a festival in Dublin. The Waterford festival attracted more tourists than the whole lot of them put together. The Tourist Board admits that. The Tourist Board helped them. That is good but I want to draw the attention of the Board to my constituency and the city of Waterford. When they are running something, they run it in a commendable way. It is not merely a matter of coming to look at the handfuls of money, with no chance of getting the money back.

The Tourist Board gave the Waterford Light Opera Festival a very small amount of money. When officers of the Department came to Waterford during the festival, they found the streets of Waterford full of people from Wales and England who had come to follow the fortunes of the various amateur light opera companies in the festival. Not only did they stay there but they came back for their holidays. Many of them stayed in the small boarding houses in the neighbourhood in Tramore and Dunmore.

As far as scenery is concerned, it would appear from the advertising that if one wants to see scenery in Ireland, one must go to the West. I would say to the people to come to the south-east. I mentioned this before, that if one is going to the West, one has the Shannon. There is a boat going up and down the Shannon, which is very commendable. It is a very nice run, but when you have had it once, you have had it for always. In Waterford, there are the Suir, Nore and Barrow, all joined together. There could be no public conveyance put on that stretch but I remember when there was one and the boat was taken away during the 1914-18 war and sunk and it was never replaced.

I feel the question of transport would arise on the main Estimate.

It is no harm to mention it. In the south, we have the wonderful scenery of the Blackwater; we have the wonderful antiquities of Ardmore, the wonderful antiquities of Waterford, Kilkenny and Cashel; we have all the historical places in Wexford, the marvellous trip from Waterford, through New Ross along this island-studded drive across to Inistioge and on to Jerpoint. Everywhere you get history, tradition and beauty. As far as folders are concerned, I agree with Deputy Esmonde that they are very good but a greater subvention should be given to the people turning them out so that they can turn out more of them and place them in cities abroad.

The Board has been criticised from time to time in regard to the money they gave for Bunratty. I commend them for that. They have got publicity, and good publicity, for Ireland and Irish tourism because of it. I suppose they have got thousands of pounds worth more in publicity than the actual amount they spent on it. I would urge the Board to keep doing things like that which draw attention to Ireland from all over the world. I hope that because of these moneys Waterford and the south-east, Tramore, Kilkenny and Wexford, will appear more often in the folders of the Tourist Board.

I should like to compliment the Minister and his Department on the development work and the work generally which they have been doing for the airports and for tourism. I am pleased that it is a man like the Minister, who has such wide experience and great vision and imagination as to the potentialities of these two specific items who is in charge of this Department. We can be proud of the efforts made up to now on the development of our airports. We have been spending considerable sums at Shannon recently to keep it up to international standards and this money has been spent on runways, administrative buildings and other improvements. I hope that this programme of expansion will carry us on for quite a number of years. I know how difficult it is to plan adequately for an ever-developing traffic and this appears to have been the experience of our airways and airports during the past 20 years.

Anybody looking at the records would be hard put to imagine that when they started, they would have developed so rapidly and so successfully. For that, all concerned merit the nation's congratulations and support. A recent airport built and developed is Cork. It was long overdue and was very necessary. Cork is a very important gateway to Ireland and the Airport there should develop the outlook of the people of Cork. It is the second city in the country and is fast developing both industrially and in many other ways. Considerable sums of money have also been spent on Dublin Airport and continue to be spent. This Airport must now compare favourably with any of its size in Europe.

I hope that planned expansion is coming to an end and that we shall have an opportunity of seeing that the money spent on these Airports has been well spent. These Airports are the first places in Ireland which visitors see; they are the first points which returning emigrants see; and it is encouraging for them when they return from abroad to be shown a well-designed, well-serviced and well-organised airport. This shows the people who have left the country that there is something more in Ireland than they thought.

I have spoken to many young boys and girls from my own part of the country and I was appalled when they told me, after being away for 15 or 16 years, they had never seen Ireland at all. All they had done was take a train to Dublin and Dún Laoghaire. All they saw of the countryside was the inside of the railway station at home and of the Dún Laoghaire station before they carried their bags on to the boat. Coming back after a few years, with the confidence and sophistication gained abroad, they have expressed surprise at the development that has taken place since they went away, and indeed before they left. For that reason alone, I would advocate good design and brighter buildings, good administration and service.

In the matter of our airport development, I agree with the Minister that he has probably gone as far as present circumstances and needs permit. However, if one looks at a map of Ireland, one will see the need, sometime in the future, for a further airport. I draw attention particularly to the north-west, and I think probably somewhere near Sligo would suit. This would serve all the north-west, including Donegal, and I know the Minister will bear that in mind when it comes up.

Air traffic and airports are peculiarly associated with tourism. It has been emphasised in this House, and I hope I will be forgiven if I re-emphasise it, that tourism is looked upon by every Deputy as one of our leading industries. Moving as we are into the European field of operation and competition, and matching our best against their best, there is one field where our people can really excel—the traditional hospitality and welcome they accord to anybody from any country in the world. They encourage people to come to this country, to consume what we produce here. This trend should be followed up with the utmost vigour.

Great steps have been taken in the promotion of tourism and Bord Fáilte are, I feel sure, extending their finances and initiative to this end. However, they must continue to pursue new avenues and new methods of encouragement of tourists. Not the least among those are our returned exiles and their children. We want to see them coming back; we want to see coming here now not only those who have left, but the first, second and third generations. From my experience of meeting sons and daughters of emigrants, I find that the second generation are probably the most tolerant of our ways and means, of our customs. Our own emigrants deserve the best encouragement that can be given them to come back. I know that is not being overlooked by those in charge of the Tourist Board.

There is one part of Ireland particularly attractive to people coming in from abroad, that is, the western seaboard and I should like the Minister to pay special attention to that area. It is poor in many ways but rich in scenery, rivers, lakes and the traditional hospitality of the people. If these can be encouraged—and I know from going among the people there that it is easy to spark off some initiative—and if the lead can be given, it would mean a great fillip to the tourist trade. Coming down to a specific area and dealing with my own constituency, there are along the coast of Sligo many rivers and lakes which could be developed. Nobody is unaware of such places as Enniscrone, Strandhill, Rosses Point, Mullaghmore, Lough Gill, Lough Melvin, Lough Allen, Lough Key and Lough Gara. All of these areas are admirably suited to the English tourist, be he the hunting type or the working-class type. They are all welcome in this country.

I would ask the Minister, because of the peculiar location, because of the special tourist attraction, to give some particular attention to that area. I would ask him also to endeavour to co-ordinate the work of the different Departments in this respect. Forestry, well handled, can help tourism; so can the amenities provided by local authorities.

I am pleased to be able to congratulate the Minister's Department in the matter of hotels. We are fast approaching a high standard of good quality hotel. Perhaps we still lack a sufficient quota of first-class accommodation, but present estimates suggest that this will be attained in the very near future.

Reverting to inland fishing and to the lakes in the west of Ireland and in other parts of the country, I think that at a comparatively small cost, unpretentious amenities such as little jetties whereby people can pull in and from which they can get easily and conveniently into their boats could be provided. Another point I would make is that we have in Connemara the Gaeltacht grants. I think something similar could be offered to the people who have a tradition of catering for visitors from abroad during the tourist season, to those who provide for the people from the North of England and elsewhere who come here to fish. The work these people have been doing is self-evident in Cavan and other places and I think that without involving ourselves in a huge scheme, some grants could be provided in this respect.

(South Tipperary): On a point of information, I should like to know exactly what are the functions of the Minister with regard to this Vote, and Bord Fáilte. Does he follow the expenditure of this money in great detail or is he here merely in the capacity of Daddy Christmas, to get so much money from the House and hand it over to the Tourist Board to spend exactly, or mainly, as they think fit? I ask that question because when Questions are put down in the House with regard to State or semi-State bodies, quite frequently the Minister refers the questioner back to the particular body concerned. He follows Pontius Pilate and says he has no authority or responsibility for it. Perhaps the Minister would tell us exactly what the position is with regard to the Tourist Board, for my information and perhaps for the information of other Deputies who may be in the same dilemma.

I do not like being classified with Pontius Pilate, anyway.

(South Tipperary): The Minister does not?

The Deputy may choose to do so but he will get short shrift from me.

(South Tipperary): It is a classification that is often used.

It should not be used in this House.

(South Tipperary): The classification has often been used in this House.

It should not be used.

(South Tipperary): That is the Minister's point of view and his judgment. He mentioned that the Tourist Board began in 1947, I think it was——

About 1938.

(South Tipperary): At that time, the General Secretary of the Irish Tourist Association was transferred from the Irish Tourist Association and Bord Fáilte was established. I do not know, but I think that probably if the Irish Tourist Association had been given the same amount of money as was poured into Bord Fáilte, it would have done the job equally well. At least, it was a step towards State control, and there has been evidence of that in our administration all through the years.

The Statistics Office was mentioned and the Minister got very shirty and hot under the collar and tried to put words into Deputy Donegan's mouth. I was listening and the Deputy merely adverted to the fact that he did not accept the returns made here with regard to the income from tourism. Neither do I. I do not think anyone living could compute or estimate what tourism brings to the country. It is only a rough guess. I have seen a summary of how it could be computed but to me, as a non-statistician, an ordinary person, it seemed quite obvious that it is little more than a guess. It may be approximately true, but as a firm figure of any sort, it cannot be accepted.

It is quite true that a number of tourists are merely returned Yanks and there is no point in the Government, the Tourist Board, or anyone else, trying to pretend they are responsible for the money those people spend here on tourism. They come here by virtue of the fact that they are Irish emigrants coming back to see their own people.

There is one form of activity carried on by Bord Fáilte which I doubt is worth the money spent on it. I refer to the "tidy towns competition". Anyone who knows the countryside, and can cast his mind back over a number of years, will appreciate the change in the countryside. I can remember that when I was young we had very bad roads and very bad villages; now we have very good roads but we still have very bad villages. Why is it that our roads have been improved to such an extent and our towns and villages have not? That is a fair indication of the way spending has gone. Most of the money has been put into the public spending sector and too little left for spending by the people. In our towns and villages, the position is that if people do anything to improve their little houses, say, put in a new window, immediately the valuation officer comes down and the valuation is raised.

The Minister for Transport and Power has no responsibility for valuations.

It does not help tourism, does it?

(South Tipperary): If instead of spending money on tidy towns competitions, the people were allowed to keep their money in their own pockets, they would do many of the things the tidy towns competition people are telling them to do.

There is a remission of rates for a period on reconstructed houses.

(South Tipperary): I agree with some of the previous speakers that probably too much money goes on helping to build luxury hotels. In a town in my constituency, a hotel was burned down. The hotelier went to Bord Fáilte and the story he told me afterwards was that they would help him if he was prepared to proceed and build a much more elaborate structure than he felt would be economic and suitable for him. His trade was simply the local people and commercial travellers coming into his hotel for meals and drinks and he had that trade all the year around. He felt that if he embarked on building a more expensive and extensive type of building he might enmesh himself in financial circumstances he might be unable to get out of. For that reason, he abandoned his hotel business entirely and, at the moment, in that town there are poor facilities for the ordinary middle-class person, the commercial traveller or otherwise.

More help should be given in the holiday resorts for what I might call private hotels, something like the pensions we all have experience of on the Continent, where the lower middle-class type of person could get accommodation at reasonable prices.

It took us a long time to realise that it was important to allow bus tours from Britain and elsewhere to come in here. Those tours are initiated there and carried through here. I understand that what happened was that they had to disembark here and take an Irish bus. Presumably, that was calculated to help C.I.E., but, at the same time, what was happening was that the ordinary private associations in Britain, clubs and so on, liked to remain together when they had already booked a bus, and although the original intention was to come here, they changed their minds and went to the Continent.

I have had complaints also that when these State bus tours were going around the country, they were organised on the basis of going from one State hotel to another, in effect, by-passing the private hotels. One hotelier complained to me that all he ever saw of them going through was when they called to his hotel to use his toilet accommodation. What truth there may be in that, I cannot say, but at least complaints were made to me.

I suppose it is repetition to advert to the seaside resorts and the impact which the licensing laws have had and will have in the coming years. One of the attractions we had was a certain ease or a lack of rigid control in our seaside resorts. For cross-Channel tourists, it is very nice to have a drink at hours to which they are not accustomed in their own country.

I am afraid the Deputy may not discuss the licensing laws on this Estimate.

(South Tipperary): But they affect tourism.

Yes, but the Minister for Transport and Power has no responsibility for them.

(South Tipperary): Deputy Esmonde adverted to publicity abroad and suggested we should have more agents but perhaps some kind of mailing system and the establishment of reciprocal arrangements with foreign agents would meet the situation rather than embark on an expensive agency programme.

Wexford has been mentioned ; Deputy Lynch has expounded the virtues of Waterford ; the West was always to the fore in looking for tourist help. We are not without attraction in Tipperary. It is very good hunting country. We have the North Tipperary Hounds, the Black and Tans, and these are an attraction which the Tourist Board should publicise as much as possible. We have good racing facilities in South Tipperary and a couple of equitation schools. Beagle-hunting is becoming quite fashionable. All these things, if publicised, might help to encourage tourists to come here.

One area which might be developed is Mitchelstown Caves on the Tipperary-Cork border. There is also the Glen of Aherlow and the Vee. I understand some consultation has taken place regarding the Vee and that Bord Fáilte met some official from South Tipperary county council. That type of consultation would be better if it were between Bord Fáilte and some of the local bodies rather than an official. It would produce more enthusiasm if it were done through some local development body such as Muintir na Tíre rather than start off by having it announced in the paper that one official met another and they had a consultation.

I want to make a few observations within the terms of reference of this Supplementary Estimate. Considerable progress has been made in recent years in the promotion of tourism and, speaking as one with some experience in that line, I should like to pay tribute to the officials of Bord Fáilte with many of whom I have had a good deal of contact in the past few years. I have always found them most courteous, obliging and helpful. While good progress has been made we must also realise that there is a vast potential awaiting exploitation. As I see it, there are two main factors involved. First, we must induce tourists to come here and, secondly, we must provide accommodation for them. It is not too difficult to induce them to come because we have quite a lot to offer. As regards accommodation, I should like to give just one example of some experiences I have had in that connection.

For the past twelve months, with the co-operation of the local development association in my home town, Bruff, County Limerick, I have been trying to develop an angling centre. On the advice of Bord Fáilte we undertook an accommodation survey of the town and district. We found that the aid available for the ordinary type of accommodation such as small guesthouses and private accommodation is practically nil. Grants and loans are available from Bord Fáilte, but there is a requirement of a minimum of ten bedrooms for a hotel and five for a guesthouse. If we are to make further progress, especially in developing the angling side of tourism, these regulations must be revised. It should be possible for persons who would provide even two bedrooms in private houses to get some type of assistance, not necessarily grants but, say, the loans operated by Bord Fáilte.

Ten days ago I went to Bord Fáilte headquarters with a constituent who lives in a very good fishing centre and has a licensed premises. Occasionally for the past year or two he had a fisherman staying with him. I was quite satisfied there was a useful potential there but we found that before he could get any assistance from Bord Fáilte he would have to provide a minimum of five bedrooms. While the potential existed, the person concerned was afraid to take that risk. It was doubtful if it would be worth going to the extent of providing five bedrooms. I suggest to the Minister that assistance should be made available for a minimum of two bedrooms.

There are a few points I should like to mention regarding tourism, which has great potentialities. Lest I be misunderstood, may I say that I am not against the large hotels which are being built? We should have the best accommodation for our visitors. I am not sure what grants are available for what I would term the family hotel. Many who come here on holiday are not in a position to pay for accommodation in the larger hotels. The smaller hotels should be encouraged by grants or loans. As another Deputy has mentioned, I also have met people who are slow to tie themselves to providing a certain number of rooms simply because they feel they may be biting off more than they can chew. The Minister should give some extra consideration to the question of grants for small hotels.

Another matter I should like to mention is coarse fishing. In my constituency of Carlow-Kilkenny, we have coarse fishing on the Barrow and we have found that, through the efforts of the local chamber of commerce in getting out a brochure and in advertising, a number of tourists came to Carlow for the coarse fishing and have returned year after year. There is a great potential in this, if we advertise it properly.

At the same time, I should like to compliment Bord Fáilte and its officials on the good work they are doing. My colleague, Deputy Lynch, mentioned the attractions in Waterford and Wexford and all around, except Carlow. In Carlow, we have everything for the tourist, hunting, shooting and fishing. We have the best inland golf club in Ireland and many prizes are made available during the year.

Progress reported ; Committee to sit again.
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