It is proposed to take business in the following order: Nos. 1, 4, and in No. 4, Votes 3 and 44, Nos. 5, 6, 7, and 8. If not already reached, it is proposed to interrupt business at 1.30 p.m. to take No. 4— Vote 44—Nos. 5, 6, 7, and 8 and when completed to resume the order. Questions will be taken at 3 p.m.
Order of Business.
Then the Minister for Industry and Commerce is not concluding straight away?
No, at 1.30.
We were told positively by the Minister last night—and he is here to verify it—that he would resume at 10.30 this morning.
That was my intention.
That was also told to me by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach at approximately 11.15 last night.
We were told last night that the Minister would be resuming at 10.30 this morning.
My understanding was that it was the general desire of the Party opposite that the debate on the Taoiseach's Estimate should begin at 10.30 this morning.
There was no such desire on our part and we were not consulted about it. I want to protest very strongly.
The Deputy has no right to protest. The Government fixes the order of the business.
The Minister said last night that he would resume at 10.30 in the morning and the Taoiseach comes in the following morning and tells us that arrangement is upset.
While the fixing of business is primarily a matter for the Government, it is customarily a matter for agreement between the Whips. I understand from my colleague that the arrangement at the latest hour that the Whips could meet last night was that the Minister for Industry and Commerce should resume this morning and dispose of the Avoca Estimate. I put it to the Taoiseach that while ultimately and theoretically fixing of business is the responsibility of the Government, unless the Whips retain mutual confidence, the arrangement of business becomes extremely difficult. I do not see that it matters very much in this case but the members of the Labour Party seem to attach great importance to it.
Appointments were made last night on the basis of what the Minister said.
This arrangement was made on another understanding. I was informed that it was the desire of the chief Opposition Party that the order of business should be as I have now set it out.
That was not so, so far as the Labour Party is concerned.
That was not the case.
We gave assurances and made appointments on the promise of the Minister.
I said I would be resuming in the morning. I assumed that I should be resuming but Deputy Sweetman suggested to me that I might see him in the restaurant afterwards. I sought the Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach and Deputy Sweetman in the restaurant and I found neither of them.
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach and Deputy Sweetman were together at the time but not in the restaurant.
We had been informed that the Minister for Industry and Commerce was concluding this morning and we made our arrangements accordingly. It is very unfair to be chopping and changing.
There arises a question of the time of concluding to-day's sitting. As I understand it, unless we arrange now to adjourn at a particular time, business goes on under Standing Orders until 10.30 to-night and, if not completed, will be resumed at 10.30 tomorrow morning. There is the question of whether any alternative arrangement is desired and, if so, the Government will fall in with any reasonable arrangement.
Most people feel it would be desirable to finish to-night.
Without a time limit?
Yes.
I do not want to be obstructive in any way. We will agree to finish to-night but let us go on into the early hours, if necessary.
That is quite undesirable. It is our experience that it is not in accordance with the status and dignity of the Dáil for a sitting to go on after midnight. If there is no understanding to finish before midnight, I think the alternative of meeting tomorrow and finishing tomorrow would be better.
Do we take it that if any arrangement is reached in the meantime, in the afternoon, that the Dáil will be so informed at a particular hour?
My understanding of the position is that unless we decide otherwise now, the Dáil will continue to meet until 10.30 to-night but that at any time before 8 p.m., an alternative proposal can be submitted to the Dáil and, if approved, will become effective. I suggest that we leave the matter on this basis, that the Whips will meet and see if an alternative arrangement can be reached. If so, the Dáil will be informed.
When?
After Questions. I suggest we announce it after Questions.
In view of the fact that the Minister for Industry and Commerce has almost completed his speech—I think he had got as far as the nitrogenous fertiliser position— could he not be allowed to resume this morning and finish the business?
Arrangements have been made on the alternative basis.
I have not got my papers with me now as I was informed that I would not resume until later.
It might be of assistance if the feeling of the House were sounded. I should imagine that most Deputies would desire to conclude business today, if that is possible. Perhaps the Whips might get together and come to an arrangement that the debate on the Taoiseach's Estimate would conclude to-day and, if necessary, an arrangement might be made that the Taoiseach would be called on to conclude not later than midnight. We are indifferent, although I believe it would be more satisfactory to conclude the debate to-day.
Our small group will not be consulted by the Whips but we do not believe that there should be any curtailment of this debate which is a most important one.
Many of our members are absent but I want to make it clear that this Party will not be a party to any arrangement which would prevent any members from speaking in this debate.