andMr. McQuillan asked the Taoiseach whether in his discussions with Dr. Adenauer he was asked for, or volunteered, or conceded, defence commitments on Ireland's behalf involving membership of NATO or any other similar defence pact as a condition precedent to getting West Germany to support Ireland's application for full membership of EEC.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - EEC Defence Commitments.
14.
The answer is in the negative.
Is it a fact that the Taoiseach did volunteer information in West Germany that Ireland would take full responsibility as far as any defence and political commitments would arise in relation to the Bonn Declaration? Did he not further volunteer information in this regard?
No.
May we take it that in the Taoiseach's discussions in the very bracing fresh air of West Germany, he was able to obtain the support of the West German Government for helping Ireland's case for admission solely on the grounds that we would provide here an alternative training ground for the German army and air force? Is that a fact?
The Deputy's imagination is working overtime today.
When the Taoiseach made the statement in Bonn and New York that we would accept, without any reservations at all, the defence commitments of EEC, did the Taoiseach at that time know what these defence commitments would be? Secondly, did the Taoiseach envisage, and accept, the placing or positioning of missile bases here as part of these defence commitments? This is not a laughing matter.
It is a laughing matter and we are entitled to laugh.
Last Tuesday, the world came very near to being destroyed on foot of these alliances. Thirdly, why did the Taoiseach volunteer this wholesale assurance in regard to defence commitments if this was not asked for?
Will Deputies please remember there are over 200 questions on the Order Paper? Question No. 15.
Yes, Sir, but the House has been in recess for four months.
Could I have a reply to these questions?
With your permission, Sir, I propose to take Questions Nos. 15 and 16 together.
Further arising out of the Taoiseach's reply——
Order.
——may I ask the Taoiseach why it is he could give information of this kind——
I am going to give the "information of this kind" if the Deputy will sit down and stop nattering.
——in Bonn and New York, but could not give it here? I want replies to my supplementary questions.
15.
Mr. Ryan
asked the Taoiseach if he will explain in detail the military commitments to which, he has stated, this country will agree, in connection with this country's possible association with the European Economic Community.
16.
asked the Taoiseach whether, in view of the statements made by him in Bonn on 23rd October with regard to Ireland's foreign and defence policy, including his statement that Ireland was making no reservations of any sort, including defence, he will make a full statement to the House as to whether this country is now completely abandoning the policy of independence and non-alignment advocated on repeated occasions in the United Nations and elsewhere by the Minister for External Affairs; whether it has yet been specifically requested by the countries of the European Economic Community that Ireland should join in a military alliance as a condition of full membership of, or association with, the European Economic Community; and if he will give a clear account of Ireland's foreign and defence policy as envisaged by the Government at the present time.
With your permission, Sir, I propose to take Questions Nos. 15 and 16 together.
A clear indication of the principles guiding our foreign policy in relation to our application for membership of the European Economic Community was given in my statement to the Ministers of the Governments of the Member States of the EEC on the 18th January, 1962, in the course of which I said:—
"It is thus natural that we in Ireland should regard with keen and sympathetic interest every genuine effort to bring the peoples of Europe closer together, so as to strengthen the foundations of our common civilisation. We were happy at the development in the years following the last war of a strong movement towards closer European union; and we have participated actively from the outset in the two organisations established to promote co-operation between European States, the Organisation for European Economic Co-operation and the Council of Europe. While Ireland did not accede to the North Atlantic Treaty, we have always agreed with the general aim of that Treaty."
The Taoiseach had not read it.
"The fact that we did not accede to it was due to special circumstances and does not qualify in any way our acceptance of the ideal of European unity and of the conception, embodied in the Treaty of Rome and the Bonn declaration of 18 July last, of the duties, obligations and responsibilities which European unity would impose."
In the Dáil, on the 15th November, 1961, I made a statement, in reply to questions, on the political aims of the European Community and said:
"There is no doubt, however, that the member countries of the Community regard it as essential that all applicants for membership should be willing to cooperate with them without qualification for the attainment of these wider objectives."
It is clear that the statements which I made at Bonn were in full accord with these earlier statements.
We have not been requested by the members of the European Economic Community, or by any one of them, to join in a military alliance, nor has any suggestion to this effect been made informally to us.
Deputies are no doubt aware that the discussions between the member Governments of the Six, as to the form of their future political association and the precise commitments arising therefrom, have been suspended, and there is no indication as to when they may be resumed.
Would the Taoiseach say, for the benefit of the House, what were the special circumstances to which he referred and which he said prevented us from joining NATO in 1948? Would the Taoiseach also say whether or not there is any reference to either military or defence commitments in the Treaty of Rome? Will the Taoiseach also state why he never gave the same guarantee to us here in this House as he appears to have given to some Press reporters in Bonn?
With regard to the reasons why the Government in 1948 did not accept an invitation to participate in the negotiations of the NATO Treaty, the Deputy should be well aware of them; he was a member of that Government.
No. He was not a member.
I want the Taoiseach to tell the House now.
With regard to the second point, there is, of course, nothing in the Treaty of Rome which involves any obligation of any kind in the sphere of defence. With regard to the third point, I think I have made it clear from the quotations I have read that there was not anything I said in Bonn which I had not said here previously.
Would the Taoiseach say why the Government at the time in 1948 did not participate in the negotiations with regard to NATO? The reason was specially related to Partition.
NATO is completely irrelevant to our EEC application.
The Taoiseach is evading two questions. Will he define the special circumstances to which he himself referred in his speech on 18th January in Brussels?
My answer is that anything to do with NATO is irrelevant.
What were the special circumstances which prevented us taking part in the negotiations?
On the special circumstances, is it not a fact that, irrespective of whether it was an inter-Party Government or a Fianna Fáil Government, the Fianna Fáil Party at the time, with the exception of the former Deputy G. Boland, were completely in favour of the decision taken by the inter-Party Government; that the special circumstances in Ireland were Partition and we would not join NATO because of Partition? Further, is it not correct that only last July the Taoiseach stated categorically here that he had never read the Articles of NATO until that particular week? How can he have the audacity now to come in here and talk about special circumstances when, in fact, he had never read the Articles of NATO until last July?
It is in the context of the Economic Community that I hope to see an end to Partition.
This is the biggest sell-out yet.
Does the Taoiseach believe that we should now declare, as he did in Bonn, that we should join in a military alliance that will include Great Britain? Does he consider it necessary that we should demonstrate we are for the free democracies and anti-Communist by joining such a military group? If so, can he reconcile that with the statement recently made by the President that neutrality was still an important part of this country's policy?
I will read again to the Deputy what I have already told him.
The Taoiseach did not read it to the man above in the Park.
I said: "We have not been requested by the members of the European Economic Community, or by any one of them, to join in a military alliance, nor has any suggestion to this effect been made informally to us".
Why should the Taoiseach have to go bail in that respect then before he is even asked?
Is it not a fact that there is no provision in the Treaty of Rome to impose military obligations on any members of the European Economic Community? Is it not further a fact that the Six Members who now constitute the Community have, in fact, entered into no military alliance under the Treaty of Rome? Is it not thirdly a fact that none of the six has any right under the Treaty of Rome to impose any military obligations on this country and that if we accept any military obligations that can only be done by the consent of this House?
All these statements are correct.
Does the Taoiseach not state that if there is such a pact he will subscribe to it?
Would the Taoiseach not agree, in the context of what is meant by defence commitments, it was irresponsible of him to have given an undertaking to accept such defence commitments without any reservation at all? Might we also ask the Taoiseach whether he made the statement that he accepted the responsibility of positioning missile bases here in Ireland?
Neither here, in Cuba nor anywhere else. The Deputy should go back to Khrushchev and tell him that is all nonsense.
That is a completely irresponsible statement. The Taoiseach is endeavouring——
We have no Russian jewels to offer.
——to lead the people blindfolded into a defence agreement.
We are not going to lead them into a Communist empire anyway.
Interruptions.