asked the Taoiseach if he has considered what the effect on the economy and on employment here will be should Britain join the Common Market and Ireland do not, and vice versa; and if he will make a statement on the result of this consideration.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - EEC: Effects on Employment.
1.
With regard to the first hypothesis in the Question, I dealt with this at some length in the statement on the European Economic Community which I made in this House on the 5th July, 1961. As I said then, the consequences for this country, in the event of Britain joining the Community while we remained outside it, could be very grave indeed. As regards the second hypothesis, in my reply to Parliamentary Questions on the 30th October last I dealt with this subject, pointing out that the failure of the British application for membership of the Community would create an entirely new situation for all concerned and one about which it would be impossible to make any useful conjecture at this stage.
In view of the complicated character of this whole business of the Common Market, and our possible adherence to it, would the Taoiseach help to produce as much clarity as possible by making it clear at this stage, thus avoiding further complications, that it is virtually absurd to think of our being members of the European Economic Community if the British are not members also, in view of the fact that the British take approximately 75 per cent. of the goods we produce?
In my view, it would, I think, be unwise for me, speaking on behalf of the Government, to commit myself to a definite point of view in relation to a hypothetical situation like that.
But the Taoiseach did commit himself on the 5th July, 1961. He said if Britain does not join, we cannot join.
If the Taoiseach does not make some statement, every halfwit will drive himself mad——
Surely the answer to that is that he need not drive himself mad. The answer is well known to all of us, except in the heavy atmosphere of Strasbourg. Arising out of the Taoiseach's reply, might I ask him, in regard to the implications involved for workers in this country, and the impact that our ultimate decision in regard to the Common Market is likely to have on unemployment, can the Government not at this stage undertake, on behalf of all of us, that the first charge upon our resources will be to ensure that men and women in permanent employment here will not be thrown on the scrapheap as a result of any decision that may be taken and that, whatever resources are necessary to facilitate their retraining and redeployment in the new situation, will be regarded as a first charge on all the resources at our disposal?
I have already informed the House that we have a committee working preparing a scheme to deal with any such problem that may arise. I am hoping that in a matter of some months the details of that scheme can be announced.
Is that a separate scheme from the one administered by the European Economic Community?
One of the matters being investigated is the way in which the European Social Fund is operating in Europe, and the type of schemes which have been applied in some of the member countries which are being supported by that Fund.
Only member countries. It does not go outside.
The point is that there is an existing committee in which these problems are being dealt with. Obviously it is desirable for us to find out how they are being dealt with in these countries before we decide how they should be dealt with here.
Does the Taoiseach's examination of this matter through this committee envisage our membership of EEC and, because of that, our entitlement to certain recoupment from the funds created by EEC or has the Taoiseach some other entirely independent scheme?
We will have our own scheme adapted to our own circumstances. In part, at least, we will be entitled to get, in respect of the cost of the scheme, recoupment from the Social Fund. To what extent our scheme will be of a type that will earn that entitlement to recoupment I cannot say yet. Our investigations have not reached that stage and a great deal will depend on the decisions taken within the committee in relation to similar schemes in operation in other countries at the present time.
Can we say at this stage that the aim and object of the Irish scheme contingent on our joining the Common Market will be to ensure that no man or woman in permanent employment here will be redundant, and without employment, without receiving every conceivable assistance it is in the power of the Irish Government to give him or her out of its own resources, and such other resources as may be available to it, to protect him or her from permanent unemployment as a result of our joining the Common Market?
That will be the purpose of the scheme.
I am satisfied it would be very serious for this country if Britain joined and we did not, but it is not entirely impossible that the opposite might be the case. There is a strong Lobby in England against joining and I believe the situation for us would be just as grave if we were to join and Britain did not.
The Deputy need not worry. The Taoiseach has not the slightest intention of joining if Britain does not.
May I ask the Taoiseach whether the committee that is dealing with the problem from the Irish angle accepts the principle embodied in the Rome Treaty, namely that such re-training and deployment allowances will be on the basis that the earnings of the displaced or redundant person will be maintained at their pre-redundancy level until such time as he can be rehabilitated in a new industry?
Certainly the scheme will provide for the maintenance of income during re-training and re-settlement where industries are being converted to new activities.
And until he is rehabilitated?
That I cannot say. I do not know to what the Deputy is trying to commit me in that regard. There will be a scheme for maintenance of income during the period of re-training where industries are being converted, but how long that period of re-training and maintenance of income may be necessary in a particular case is a matter on which no decision has yet been taken.
Will he get a living wage until he is re-employed?
Apart from re-training and re-settlement, how does the Taoiseach propose to deal with the problem of absolute unemployment?
Our expectation is that we will get in these new circumstances such considerable development of new industries that overall employment will increase, not diminish.
I hope the Taoiseach will be proved right.
Our industrial development so far has not proved that.
(Interruptions.)
Order.
Question No. 2 postponed.