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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 29 May 1963

Vol. 203 No. 3

Committee on Finance. - Vote 37—Lands.

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £1,587,970 be granted to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1964, for the salaries and expenses of the Offices of the Minister for Lands and of the Irish Land Commission.

The net total required for 1963/64 is £2,709,370. As shown in the Book of Estimates, this represents an increase of £219,320 on last year. However, Deputies will recall that a supplementary net sum of £33,500 for 1962/63 was voted in March last but this occurred too late for inclusion in the appropriate columns relating to 1962/63 in this year's Estimates Volume. The actual net increase for the current year, therefore, is £185,820.

I should like, first of all, to comment on the salient features of the Estimate, with particular reference to those subheads which show a significant change as compared with the amounts provided last year. I shall then review briefly the main activities of the Land Commission during the year ended 31st March last and, before concluding, I propose to refer to some general matters associated with this important Vote.

Under Subhead A, which provides for salaries, wages and allowances, there is an increase of £17,845 as compared with last year. The additional amount is mostly attributable to normal incremental advances accruing to the staff in the current year. Whilst there has been a slight reduction in total personnel since last year, the maintenance of an adequate level of trained staff is essential to the satisfactory implementation of the land settlement programme.

Subhead B provides mainly for travelling expenses arising from the inspection, survey and allotment of lands under the Land Acts. Incidental expenses, e.g. telephones, telegrams, advertisements, etc., are also included under this subhead. The additional £3,050 this year relates largely to an expected increase in travelling expenses due to general acceleration of land settlement activities.

Subhead D represents the taxpayers' contribution in the current year towards the service of land purchase debt, accumulated, since 1923, on both tenanted and untenanted land. The moneys in this subhead are in the nature of statutory commitments. The total contribution this year amounts to £965,750, or about 35 per cent. of the entire net Estimate. Of this amount, more than £820,000 is required to make good deficiencies in the Land Bond Fund arising from the statutory halving of annuities conceded in 1933. The increase of £32,150 in Subhead D this year is attributable almost entirely to the halving of purchase instalments payable by new allottees as land settlement continues.

Under Subhead G, a total of £215,000 is provided for three distinct items. Firstly, there is provision for £185,000 for the purchase of lands for cash in the open market under Section 27 of the Land Act, 1950.

Hear, hear.

I shall comment more fully on this activity in a few moments. The second item provides £10,000 as compensation, payable in cash, for tenancy interests resumed on the small outstanding residue of estates of the former Congested Districts Board. Last year there was an unexpected increase in the intake of land from this source and it was necessary, towards the end of the year, to augment the original provision of £5,000 by a supplementary sum of £25,000. For the current year, it is expected that £10,000 will suffice.

The final part of Subhead G, G.3, is a new item and represents auctioneers' commission on relevant purchases of land for cash and land bonds. As was explained when introducing the supplementary Lands Estimate last March, it has been the practice to pay auctioneers' commission in respect of lands purchased by the Land Commission for cash under Section 27 of the Land Act, 1950. The necessary funds were heretofore included under Subhead G.1. The principle of paying auctioneers' commission has recently been extended by me, with the concurrence of the Minister for Finance, to certain properties purchased on a voluntary basis for land bonds and to the resumption of unvested tenancies. The anticipated aggregate requirement for the current year, viz. £20,000, is now provided for under Subhead G.3. I have no doubt that the extension of payment of commission on the lines indicated will prove a decided incentive to auctioneers to offer lands on their books to the Land Commission and that, with fewer contested cases, there will follow an acceleration in land acquisition for the relief of congestion.

Hear, hear.

Reverting to the main item under Subhead G, the purchase of land for cash under Section 27 of the Land Act, 1950, Deputies will be aware that the volume of financial provision for this purpose has shown a progressive expansion each year since 1958. The original provision last year was £140,000 but this was increased by £35,000 in the Supplementary Estimate. The upward trend is being maintained in the current year and the amount proposed, £185,000, represents an increase of £10,000 on last year's total record provision. It is scarcely necessary to remind the House that the main bulk of land acquisition is financed in land bonds issued under Land Bond Orders made annually by the Minister for Finance and that the scope of Section 27 of the 1950 Act is limited to the purchase for cash of land required for the creation of migrants' holdings or to facilitate the rearrangement of intermixed holdings. Last year, a sum of £182,279 was expended under Section 27, the total area purchased for cash being 2,231 acres; in the previous year, an expenditure of £135,795 was incurred in respect of 1,837 acres. The prevailing trend in the supply of suitable properties coming on the market suggests that there will be no difficulty in utilising the expanded volume of funds being made available this year for the purposes of Section 27 of the Land Act, 1950.

Hear, hear.

There is an increase of £1,000 under Subhead H, which provides for payment of gratuities, pursuant to Section 29 of the Land Act, 1950, to persons displaced from employment on estates acquired by the Land Commission for distribution. Last year, gratuities totalling £7,004 were paid to 34 ex-employees—an average of £206 each. In all, from the passing of the Land Act, 1950, to 31st March, 1963, a total of 279 displaced employees have received gratuities aggregating £37,146, an average of £133 per man. Displaced employees who are deemed competent to work land are automatically considered for allotments; indeed, this is only right and proper. If they are not considered suitable for allotments, however, they become eligible for a cash gratuity, depending on such factors as length of service, personal and family circumstances and availability of alternative employment. It is difficult to anticipate accurately the extent of commitments under Subhead H in any particular year but, having regard to the increased level of acquisition activity, an additional sum of £1,000 is likely to be required for the current year.

Subhead I, for the most part, provides the funds required to finance improvement works on estates being divided by the Land Commission. These works include the erection of dwellinghouses and out-offices, the provision of access roads, fencing, drainage and water supply, turbary development, repair and maintenance of embankments, etc. All of these works are an essential feature of the land settlement programme and the heavy expenditure incurred on them each year inevitably accounts for a substantial proportion of the Estimate.

Last year, the amount originally provided under Subhead I, viz. £690,000, proved inadequate and a supplementary sum of £35,000 was voted in March last, bringing the aggregate provision for the year to £725,000. Total expenditure for the year, from the subhead, amounted to £720,101, of which some £292,000 was incurred on building projects. Land Commission estate improvement works generally, in the course of the year, provided employment for about 920 workmen, including gangers and tradesmen, whose wage bill totalled some £304,600. The Incentive Bonus Scheme for Land Commission workmen engaged in general estate improvements continues to operate satisfactorily. Application of the scheme resulted in a significant saving in expenditure in the course of the year. Productivity increased simultaneously and the amount paid to the men by way of bonus was substantially higher than in the previous year.

The amount proposed under subhead I this year is £790,000, which comprises over 29 per cent of the net Estimate. There has been an increase, effective from 1st April, 1962, in wages for Land Commission labourers and tradesmen. Moreover, new dwellinghouses for migrants are now being fully serviced by the provision of piped water, hot water system, bathroom, toilet and sewerage facilities. Despite the inevitable increased costs involved, however, Deputies will, I feel sure, regard the provision of these amenities as a welcome development in Land Commission housing.

Hear, hear.

While on this subject, I may mention that progress in the provision of water supplies for domestic and stock requirements of tenants and allottees continued during the year ended 31st March last. In all, 123 wells were provided in the course of the year, compared with an output of 106 wells in the previous year, either through the operation of the Land Commission's well-boring machines or by contractors employed by them to augment the output of their own machinery.

The necessary funds for the purpose of making grants for the preservation and improvement of game resources are provided under Subhead L. Grants are provided, with the funds available, to assist approved game development schemes formulated by local organisations representative of all appropriate interests. In this connection, I have repeatedly stated that I prefer to deal with one representative body at county level. I have also made it clear that grants from Subhead L would be confined to assisting locally organised direct improvement schemes which hold promise of worthwhile practical results and which are backed by efficient local organisation and initiative. These schemes, in the main, relate to vermin destruction, that is the control of predators, other than foxes; grants are also made available for game-farms and for general restocking purposes.

Provision under the subhead last year originally stood at £10,000 but it became necessary, for the reasons mentioned on the occasion of the supplementary estimate in March last, to augment this sum by £3,000, thereby bringing the total provision for 1962-63 to £13,000. During the past year, 20 schemes involving an aggregate expenditure of £25,000, were approved. To assist these schemes, grants amounting to £16,777 were sanctioned, on the basis of payment pro rata with vouched expenditure by the Regional Game Councils concerned. By 31st March, 1963, the financial provision for the year had been fully expended. the remaining approved grants, together with any supplementary grants, which may arise, will fall to be paid in the current year.

In order to meet outstanding commitments and in anticipation of a greater volume of game development schemes, provision this year has been increased to £25,000. Regional game councils, which have now been established in 24 counties, will shortly be asked to submit their proposals for the current year to my Department for consideration. Having now entered on the third year of active State participation in this sphere, it gives me particular satisfaction to know that the financial assistance provided through my Department has contributed to the advancement of the game movement. In most counties a spirit of co-operation and mutual understanding prevails and I look to the various regional game councils to press ahead with the practical side of the work.

The game movement is primarily for the benefit of our own people but should ultimately result in the development of an important national asset. Game councils should I think, recognise the importance and urgency of making our farmers more game conscious and also of inculcating, in farming and sporting interests, a spirit of community effort for the development of local game resources. Grants by my Department are allocated equitably, having regard to the special conditions and problems in the various counties, but it must be clearly understood that these grants are intended merely as an incentive to local initiative and that the major part of the expenditure must be provided by the local organisations themselves.

My repeated appeals for unity in the game movement at national level, have not so far met with a satisfactory response. I am determined, however, that the planning of game development on a national basis must not be held up indefinitely by a spirit of faction and mutual suspicion on the part of some interests. The question of the most appropriate and effective measures to be taken, in the prevailing circumstances, is at present under examination in my Department.

Having explained the major features of the Estimate at some length, I do not propose to elaborate on the remaining subheads which are largely unchanged from last year or else represent self-explanatory token provisions. I shall continue, therefore, by reviewing the principal activities of the Land Commission during the year ended 31st March last. Though some of the statistics are still provisional, no significant variation is expected when final returns become available. The overall results are very satisfactory.

I shall deal with progress on the tenanted land side first. During the year, approximately 800 tenanted holdings were revested in tenant purchasers. The scope for activity in this sphere is regularly diminishing as the disposal of the outstanding core of difficult cases continues. By 31st March last, tenanted holdings pending for vesting aggregated only about 8,000, comprising some 6,000 holdings on estates purchased under the Land Acts 1923 to 1954, and about 2,000 holdings on acutely congested estates of the former Congested Districts Board.

The true significance of what has been achieved to date in the sphere of tenanted land purchase is best appreciated when the extent of these residual cases is measured against the original commitments of some 400,000 State-conducted sale transactions. In the whole 12 counties of Leinster there are now only 200 holdings outstanding for vesting. The relatively small number of properties for which land purchase proceedings have yet to be concluded is situated mainly in congested counties. These residual holdings, however, in no way represent a survival of landlordism: the tenants thereof enjoy all the benefits of land purchase, the mere act of final vesting being but the ultimate and conclusive symbol of ownership. They are being disposed of as rapidly as possible, consistent with their need for enlargement, rearrangement and general improvement prior to vesting.

For untenanted land activities which, of course, nowadays constitute the more spectacular sphere of land settlement, the year ended 31st March last was one of solid achievement. To function effectively, the acquisition machine must be geared to a high level of inspection to allow for the many cases where the lands involved are finally not considered suitable for land settlement purposes. It is very gratifying to find, therefore, that for the third successive year, the total area inspected by the Land Commission, as a preliminary to considering the institution of proceedings, exceeded 70,000 acres. The area for which proceedings actually materialised in the course of the year aggregated 31,000 acres. At 31st March last, there were some 48,600 acres which were the subject of proceedings in the acquisition machine.

The fact that activity is continuing at this satisfactory level is due largely to the substantially increased funds, both in cash and in land bonds, made available to the Land Commission by the Government in recent years for the purpose of land acquisition. I have already dealt with the cash outlay for land purchase last year. Here I should add that bond issues for land acquisition in the same period were just short of the £1 million mark. Since the volume of land settlement depends on the amount of land taken over by the Land Commission for distribution, it is imperative, especially having regard to the revised concept of the size of a viable holding, that the tempo of acquisition be maintained and, if possible, accelerated.

As regards land settlement generally during the year ended 31st March last, the overall outcome can be summarised by recording that the aggregate area distributed amongst some 1,850 allottees exceeded 32,000 acres, in addition to the provision of over 1,000 turbary rights.

The Land Commission are, of course, now working to the new standard whereby holdings and enlargements are planned as far as practicable in all areas so as to provide family farms of 40 to 45 acres of good land or the equivalent in land of varied quality. It goes without saying that all applicants below that level are now eligible for consideration for enlargements.

To comply with the revision in the size of holding which took place during the year, it was necessary to review and recast resale schemes in respect of a number of estates for which allotment proposals had previously been formulated to the former standard. For a while it seemed that a temporary curtailment in land settlement for the year could scarcely be avoided but, as the impressive results which I have just mentioned clearly demonstrate, the industry and enthusiasm of the staff eliminated such a possibility. Before passing on, therefore, to comment in more detail on some specific aspects of land settlement during the year, I should like to avail myself of this opportunity to compliment the officials of the Land Commission, both indoor and outdoor, on this splendid output for the year as a whole.

I would like now to refer specifically to the progress made last year under the twin processes of migration and rearrangement. Taking rearrangement first, the number of holdings dealt with in the course of the year was 467. This was a very praiseworthy achievement indeed. In all, since 1950, a total of over 6,200 fragmented holdings has been rearranged, the vast bulk of them being enlarged and otherwise improved, in the process. Rural Deputies, in particular, will be well aware of the difficulties confronting the Land Commission in the delicately-poised work of rearrangement and they will, no doubt, appreciate the degree of tact and patience required on the part of the Inspectorate in the successful formulation of proposals acceptable to the tenants concerned.

As rearrangement schemes are carried out on a voluntary basis, the results naturally depend largely on the extent of co-operation afforded by the participating tenants. It is a matter for regret, however, that in some isolated cases obstructive tactics occur—mainly through excessive demands by individuals—thereby placing the prospects of improvement for groups of tenants in jeopardy. Such a situation, even if relatively rare, obviously cannot be permitted to continue. I would, therefore, urge all tenants of intermixed holdings to recognise that the proposals put forward by the Land Commission are intended for the betterment of their conditions and I would earnestly appeal to them to refrain from adopting an attitude which, if persisted in, may lead to changes in the existing voluntary nature of the rearrangement programme.

The migration of landowners from congested areas is inevitably associated with rearrangement of intermixed conditions, inasmuch as the additional land required to enable fragmented holdings to be consolidated and enlarged is frequently obtainable only as a result of the transfer of a number of tenants from the particular townland being dealt with. During the year ended 31st March last, a total of 102 migrants was installed in fully-equipped new holdings in non-congested areas. These results reflect a marked improvement as compared with the number of migrations, that is 67, in the previous financial year, even when allowance is made for difficulties resulting from the cement strike which affected building work generally in that year.

It is recognised, of course, that enlarged holdings must be reasonably compact having regard to modern trends. Towards this objective, I have authorised the Land Commission to engage in local migrations, that is to say full transfers, even within the one mile stipulated distance, where the resulting overall advantage, in terms of a really superior settlement, may be deemed to counterbalance the extra cost.

The Land Commission are sometimes criticised—not always with justification—for holding lands on hands for extensive periods prior to allotment. In addition, Parliamentary Questions affecting properties in the possession of the Land Commission in specified counties or districts are frequently addressed to me. It will, I daresay, be conceded that the Land Commission must continue to have in their possession a substantial area of land for use as a working pool for land settlement in each county. I must deny, however, that it is their practice to retain lands on hands for longer periods than necessary for the sole purpose of deriving profits from them. On the contrary, there are standing instructions to the effect that acquired lands—and especially arable lands— be put into the possession of the approved allottees as quickly as possible. Where delay occurs, there are invariably justifiable and compelling reasons for it. The allotment of an estate has sometimes to be deferred pending the acquisition of further lands in a particular district in the interests of a comprehensive and better-balanced scheme of resettlement for the locality as a whole. Here let me quote from the Inter-Departmental Committee which reported on the problems of small western farms: the concluding portion of Paragraph 10 of their Report says:

The Committee understands that there is a system prevalent in Holland where the State Agency responsible for acquiring land holds it until a sufficient area is available to create an economic holding. The Committee is aware that the Land Commission act likewise and it is considered that they should intensify this policy in the interests of a comprehensive scheme for a district, in spite of local pressures for earlier division.

For the information of Deputies, I can state that at 31st March last, the Land Commission had in their possession, apart from substantial areas of mountain and rough grazing, turbary and other inferior quality land, some 48,000 acres of arable land. That such an acreage, however, is not unreasonable can be gauged from the fact that the average annual allotment, involving all classes of land, during the past five years was about 41,000 acres.

I am glad to say that, despite the abnormally severe weather in the period January to March, there was a pronounced improvement in Land Commission housing activities during the year ended 31st March last. In all, 183 new dwellinghouses and 324 new outoffices were provided by or with financial assistance from the Land Commission in the course of the year while a further 12 dwellinghouses were reconstructed. The corresponding output for the previous year was 139 dwellinghouses, 213 outoffices and 17 reconstructions.

I referred last year to progress on the preparation of a range of new building plans of modern design for Land Commission operations. Deputies who attended the recent Spring Show at Ballsbridge will doubtless be aware of the interest aroused by the model of a fully-serviced Land Commission house which was placed on display there. For the benefit of those Deputies who may not already have seen it, the model is on exhibition near the Library of Leinster House for the duration of this debate. During the past year a number of dwellinghouses to this plan were built by the Land Commission on migrants' holdings throughout the country. Deputies will, I feel sure, regard this new design as marking a further step forward in the improvement of Land Commission building standards.

In addition to giving grants and making advances for dwellinghouses and outoffices on estates in the course of land settlement, the Land Commission make advances to tenant-purchasers to supplement grants for new houses from the Department of Local Government. Since April, 1961, advances up to £200—irrespective of the amount of the annuity payable by the applicant—have been available in these cases. During the past year, 39 such advances—the bulk of which represented the maximum amount payable—were made by the Land Commission. I feel, however, that having regard to increased building costs generally and in order to assist small farmers in providing themselves with new dwellinghouses, the current level of the advance needs to be reviewed. I am, therefore, having the whole matter fully examined, in consultation with the other Departments concerned, with a view to further increasing the amount of the Land Commission advance and I hope to be in a position to make an announcement in the matter in the near future.

I have already dealt with the position regarding the revesting of tenanted land during the year ended 31st March last. The vesting of untenanted land allotments was also an important feature of the year's work. The aggregate number of properties, comprising holdings, parcels and rights of turbary, vested in tenants and allottees in the course of the year was 3,750.

The position regarding payment of land annuities continues satisfactory. Out of a total collectible amount of over £73¼ million, since 1933, the arrear at 31st March last amounted to £141,288, which represents a 99.8 per cent successful collection. This record of promptitude in honouring their annuity obligations reflects the utmost credit on the agricultural community and I unhesitatingly avail myself of this opportunity to compliment them on it.

The Land Commission scheme of resettlements out of the areas of high flood risk in the Shannon Valley is now in the final stages. As Deputies know, this is not a scheme of flood control; rather is it aimed at affording relief, as far as practicable, from the hazards of flooding by the erection of new buildings on higher sites, the reconstruction of existing buildings in suitable cases and the provision, where necessary, of dry stands for stock in times of abnormal flooding.

Progress under the scheme up to a recent date may be summarised as follows:— Work on 49 dwellinghouses and 53 outoffices has been completed and a further 11 dwellinghouses and 10 outoffices are at present under construction. In all, 32 dry stands for stock have been allotted, necessitating the migration of 6 landowners and their resettlement on new holdings elsewhere. Efforts are continuing to acquire a further area of land to provide sites for buildings for 5 other participants.

The cost of the scheme is being borne by the National Development Fund and, up to a recent date, total expenditure amounted to approximately £113,000.

My remarks on this Estimate in recent years have included a reference to the purchase of land in this country by non-nationals and also to the measures taken by the Government to ensure that such property transfers would not hamper the land settlement programme. As Deputies know, particulars of land purchases and leases by non-nationals—apart from transactions relating to urban properties or non-urban properties with less than 5 acres of land—have, since 1st August, 1961, been recorded in a register kept by the Land Commission under the procedure authorised by Sections 33, 34 and 35 of the Finance Act, 1961. The position up to a recent date is that since 1st August, 1961, a total of 142 properties—many of them small units—aggregating 11,200 acres have been purchased or leased by non-nationals subject to payment of stamp duty at the 25 per cent rate. In addition, 2,242 acres, involving 179 transactions, were purchased for purposes of industry other than agriculture and 62 other properties totalling 4,566 acres were acquired for other purposes but exempted from stamp duty under the relevant provisions of the Finance Act.

I fail to see in these authoritatively compiled figures any concrete evidence of the big "sell-out" of Ireland which is alleged in some quarters to be taking place. It is remarkable that allegations made from time to time in relation to this highly sensitive subject are never supported by statistics, despite the fact that the true position is made known periodically by way of reply to Parliamentary questions and otherwise. Indeed, it is hard to resist the suspicion that there is a tendency to make sweeping generalisations in this matter on the basis of isolated transactions.

I can state categorically that, insofar as the land settlement programme is concerned, the acquisition of land by non-nationals has not impeded progress to date. As I have often stated, many of the properties acquired by non-national interests may be described as "white elephants" and would not be at all suitable for land settlement purposes. It is also worth repeating, perhaps, that the transfer of land to new ownership—whether native or foreign—in no way impairs the Land Commission's powers to move for acquisition of the property for relief of congestion if circumstances should warrant such a course.

The funds provided in this Estimate will be used, in the main, to advance the land settlement programme. Land settlement is by no means an easy task: the extent to which the human element is involved in the work ensures that. Perhaps one of its most difficult aspects is the realisation that, with the demand for land far exceeding the supply, it is virtually impossible to formulate a scheme of division for any particular estate which will satisfy everybody; there will invariably be disappointment for some aspirants. I do not know what the formula for success is but I do know that the formula for failure is to try to please everybody. It is only too true to say that few sectors of the public service give rise to such high feelings as land settlement.

As Minister for Lands I have received, and no doubt will continue to receive, my share of criticism. It was, therefore, a very rewarding experience for me to receive only last week a letter expressing appreciation at the fair and equitable manner in which a particular estate—and one far removed from my own county, at that—had been distributed by the Land Commission amongst seven allottees. But more gratifying still was the fact that this gesture of appreciation was accompanied by a genuine sincerity expressed in these words: "We feel deeply indebted for sanctioning what is to us a wonderful gift. In return for this expenditure of public money on our behalf, we promise that we shall farm this land well and produce maximum yields". This, I suggest, is the farming spirit which is needed so badly to-day: at any rate, it is the standard which every allottee of Land Commission land must set himself, if the heavy outlay on land settlement is to be justified.

This concludes my opening remarks on the Lands Estimate. If there are any points on which Deputies require further details I shall endeavour to supply them.

I have, however, deliberately refrained from commenting at this stage on some aspects of land policy which are at present under examination in my Department. I feel that the new Land Bill, which I hope to introduce later in the year, will provide the House with a more suitable occasion for a full-scale debate on those items. I confidently recommend the Estimate and will be glad to hear the views of Deputies on all sides of the House.

I move:

"That the Estimate be referred back for reconsideration."

Having listened attentively to the Minister, I admit there has been a degree of progress by the Land Commission. However, on several occasions, he refers to the fact that the degree of progress recently made by the Land Commission is due in no small way to the various sections of the Land Act, 1950.

It is a very simple matter for the Minister to point out what is being done in relation to land division in recent years in view of the fact that on entering the Land Commission he had the 1950 Land Act under which the Land Commission could proceed and produce the results which the Minister has disclosed to us tonight. During the passage of the 1950 Land Bill the Government of the day were torn to shreds by the present Minister for Lands and by the Fianna Fáil Party in general who could see no good or valuable section in that Bill. Valuable time of the House was taken up in fault-finding and unnecessary criticism of that Bill by the Fianna Fáil Party. That is regrettable but there is a certain amount of gratification because of the conversion of the Minister for Lands and the Fianna Fáil Party to belief in the 1950 Land Act. I am glad that when the Minister claims any degree of progress for the Land Commission he has the courage to give credit where credit is due, that is, to the Land Act which was sponsored by the inter-Party Government and which he and his Party spoke against, voted against and undermined in this House and outside it in every possible way.

It is gratifying to note the amount of money available for cash transactions on the open market under Section 27 of the Land Act, 1950. If the Land Act, 1950, had not been passed it would not be possible for the Land Commission to purchase land on the open market. That is why I say that whatever degree of progress the Minister can boast of is the result of the seeds which were sown by the passing of the Land Act of 1950.

In view of the speeches the Minister has made throughout the country and the warnings and strong words he has uttered, I am disappointed and depressed that he has not spoken in the same tones in this House. He has been touring the country organising his own Party, suggesting that there is a revolutionary Land Bill coming before the Dáil and giving details of that Land Bill but all he can tell the House on the occasion of his Estimate is that there is a Land Bill under consideration and that he will introduce it some time this year. Only three lines of the Minister's speech on the Estimate contained reference to the revolutionary changes being made in relation to land policy. That falls far short of what should be done by an energetic Minister for Lands, anxious to give the country and this House details of future policy in relation to land settlement. Having regard to the speeches made by the Minister in recent weeks, I had expected that he would avail of the opportunity provided on the occasion of the debate on his Estimate to give the House full particulars of the revolutionary changes he and the Taoiseach have been speaking about for some considerable time past.

It is not in order to discuss legislation on an Estimate.

I am referring to land policy in general. In a newspaper of 15th August, 1962, there is a report of a speech made by the Taoiseach to the delegates of the Muintir na Tíre Rural Week in Thurles. I quote:

The chief points made by the Taoiseach in his speech were as follows:

Future Land Commission policy will be to provide family farms.

Where farms were enlarged to the new standard the State will contribute 50 per cent of the purchase price and costs of improvement.

Interest free loans will be made available to western landholders who sell their farms to the Land Commission to buy land elsewhere.

The Land Commission will be empowered to re-occupy vacant or unworked farms.

Legislation to purchase holdings from elderly or incapacitated owners is envisaged.

Loans will be made available to small farmers for the purchase of livestock and equipment.

The State is to encourage co-operation, especially in the West.

Will the Deputy give the reference, please?

All this was published on the front page of the Irish Independent of Wednesday, 15th August, 1962, under the headings:

New plan for farms: Taoiseach outlines schemes: non-farm employment to be extended: Government action on western areas.

That was 15th August, 1962. From that day to this, we have not heard a word about that, except when the Minister for Lands takes it upon himself to make a speech. When he does not want to make a speech in relation to the United Nations, he falls back on the speech which was delivered in Thurles by the Taoiseach, from which he picks pieces to suit his audiences. There is nothing in his speech introducing the Estimate which gives us to understand that the new plan which got so much publicity is being put into operation.

You have been told that the new family farms have been created during the past year.

Coming on to 22nd September, 1962, the Minister issued a warning. "Owners must make up their minds," he said. "Derelict and vacant holdings will be acquired." The Minister was addressing the Agricultural Science Association in University College, Dublin. He availed of that opportunity to sound a warning to certain people who had land set. He was probably availing of the opportunity to obtain for himself some publicity and headlines. Mark you, the Minister picked his venue. He did not make the speech in the west or in the midlands. When he wanted to issue a warning about land policy and about conacre and the setting of land, he did not go down to the rural areas to sound that warning. He picked on University College, Dublin. That speech met the same fate as the speech made in Thurles by the Taoiseach on 15th August.

What is the position now? In the closing words of the Minister's speech, we find reference to the fact that 11,000 acres of Irish land have been purchased by non-nationals and that some other lands have been purchased by non-nationals also for industrial or building sites. Now, no one on this side of the House has any objection to any non-national purchasing a site on which to establish a factory or build a residence, but we strongly object to this invasion by foreigners, by Germans and other Europeans——

British.

——by any who come here for the purpose of buying up Irish land when so many farmer's sons and smallholders are put to the pin of their collars to exist. I should like the Minister to tell us why the Germans are so anxious to buy land here?

That includes everybody—heathen, Turk, Jew, or German —since 1961.

It does not matter whence they come, they are non-nationals and, in my opinion, they should not be allowed to purchase land here. There is an institution known as the Irish Land Commission which has the responsibility of relieving congestion, enlarging holdings, rearranging holdings, providing our own people with land. What do we find? We find a new invasion. It took a considerable time to rid this country of foreign control. After 40 years of freedom, we see an Irish Government standing by and allowing the land of Ireland to be sold out to non-nationals, non-nationals who have no responsibility to the country, who care nothing about the country, who come in here to exploit the land, to make what they can out of it, pauperise it, and then sell it and fly the country. These people are gambling with the soil of this country and they should not be allowed to do so. I protest strongly against this new invasion by a new type of landlord. When lands are put on the market for sale, the non-national, with his cheque book, can outbid any Irish smallholder. Every day extensive tracts of land are being sold. The Land Commission are not interested or, when they do become interested, the lands are already sold. In many cases, these large tracts purchased by non-nationals would have been of tremendous benefit to our own people.

All that is bad enough, but we had an even worse spectacle in the past few weeks. The Minister for Agriculture, speaking in Mullingar, almost extended a welcome to non-nationals. He expressed the hope that these non-nationals would show the Irish farmer how to work. A most disgraceful pronouncement from an Irish Minister for Agriculture! It is difficult to understand the mentality of a Minister for Agriculture who extends a welcome to non-nationals and expresses the hope that these foreigners coming in here will wake up the Irish smallholder and show him how to work. I do not hold the Minister for Lands responsible for what the Minister for Agriculture says: God forbid that I should burden the Minister for Lands with responsibility for the utterances of the Minister for Agriculture. The latter expressed the hope even that more non-nationals would come in here and buy up more Irish land. That was published in the Press and I am sure there are some Deputies here who heard him make that disgraceful pronouncement in Mullingar.

The Deputy is misquoting the Minister.

I did not hear the Minister but I read the papers. I read all the papers every day. I did not see any denial by the Minister for Agriculture of the statement made in Mullingar on the occasion of his visit there.

The Deputy is misrepresenting what the Minister said.

The Deputy is inventing a speech for the Minister for Agriculture.

I do not think that would be possible.

Give the quotation.

Perhaps the Minister would tell us before the debate concludes what his colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, really said in Mullingar.

The Deputy is making an allegation and, if he is serious in it, then he should quote the Minister for Agriculture.

I should like to know what the Minister really said.

The Deputy is making an allegation that the Minister for Agriculture said he welcomes foreigners in here.

(Interruptions.)

It should be the aim of the Minister for Lands to keep the people on the land. If we continue as we are going at the moment, we will end up with the cities and provincial towns over-populated and the rural areas stripped. Goodness knows, emigration has taken many thousands of our people away. Recently there was a report published by the London County Council which stated that in one part of London there are as many Irish as there are in the whole province of Connacht. Many smallholders have emigrated and sold or set their land because economic conditions compelled them to do so. We should endeavour to keep our people on the land because the community in general must depend on the progress and the unity of the parish unit. We can see from educational and school returns, from statistics available in every form, that in parts of the country schools are closing down, no children are to be found, fairs and markets are disappearing because of the lack of an agricultural community to support them. The country churches are becoming empty because of the lack of a rural population. This is a state of affairs that should be tackled and tackled courageously by Government policy, and the Minister for Lands is allowing valuable and useful time to pass without taking effective action.

The ownership of land should be extended as widely as possible. Very little encouragement has been given to young people to work on the land by making them the owners of land. I have read a speech by the Minister for Lands in which he said he hoped to provide a pension scheme of £3 a week without any means test for the owner of a farm who reaches a certain age and who hands it over entirely to a member of the family to work. I was expecting the Minister for Lands to tell us something about that £3 pension tonight.

It must have been at a Fianna Fáil committee meeting he said that.

It was at a Fianna Fáil committee. If we are to put the land of this country into youthful and effective hands, some encouragement must be given to these people to remain on the land for that purpose and some form of gratuity or pension should be made available——

That, I take it, would require legislation. As I have pointed out, it is not in order to advocate legislation on an Estimate.

I agree that I may be going a little wide in that regard but, without pursuing the matter any further, I want to express my disappointment that the Minister was, as I consider, failing in his duty in not taking effective measures to put the land of this country into the hands of the people who would work it. I am glad to say the Land Commission have taken action in regard to the size of an economic holding. The size of an economic holding can properly be described as between 45 and 55 acres. By the time the Minister for Lands leaves office, I am sure he will have the greater part of the Fine Gael Party's land policy put into operation. I believe the Minister had his first idea of the size of an economic holding as a result of pronouncements made by the Leader of the Fine Gael Party and the Fine Gael policy in relation to the Department of Lands which was published at the time of the last general election, in which it is stated very clearly that the policy of the Land Commission would be re-examined by the Fine Gael Party in the light of the needs of the present time.

That is very vague.

It goes on then to say that the minimum size of holdings to be allocated by the Land Commission should and would be increased substantially.

Will the Deputy quote?

It states that the Fine Gael Party, if elected as the Government, would start a scheme to provide farms for young farmers which could be leased for a period of years at an annual rent so that young farmers would be able to use their capital and credit in providing stock and equipment. On the same occasion, the Fine Gael Party declared in their published policy in respect of the Land Commission that foreigners buying agricultural land would be required to be registered and to register their purchases with the Land Commission. I venture to say that if the Fine Gael Party were in office today, non-nationals would not be allowed to buy land as they are buying it at the present time.

The people did not believe you.

Here we see again that the Land Commission should be given and must be given the task not, as outlined by the Minister, of repairing houses but of providing houses for small farmers, and legislation is not needed for that. On that occasion also the declared policy of this party was that interest-free loans ranging up to £1,000 would be made available to those on the land to help them to increase production in accordance with the advisory services available for them. If that policy were put into operation tomorrow morning, I venture to say that after a short while rural Ireland would wake up to its effectiveness.

Now that the Minister is considering the question of making grants available for the repair and the improvement of dwelling houses, as he told us, let us hope he will go the whole hog and implement what we have urged on him, the provision of houses for our small farmers who are not in a position to find money to erect houses for themselves. Many of them cannot comply with the terms of the small dwellings loans legislation and have not got the money to meet the gap between the cost of the house and whatever loan is made available by the Land Commission and the various grants.

The cost of those houses should be payable over a number of years, just as in the case of Section B of the Land Project. There are thousands of small farmers who have not got the money to provide themselves with a better home and that payment should be spread over 35, 40 or 50 years. Let the next generation help to pay for it. Why should a small farmer have to pay during his lifetime £2,500 or £3,000, if it would stop at £3,000, for a house and out-offices? His son and his family after him will also benefit by that house and it is only proper that it should be spread over a sufficient number of years. That is the policy the Fine Gael Party will put into operation after the next general election. We hope to be able to implement that policy and provide those houses and also to be in a position to give land to farmers' sons on a leased basis, land which Fianna Fáil are allowing the non-nationals—it does not matter whether they are Germans or Turks—to purchase. We want to see that land going to Irish farmers' sons.

Does the Deputy advocate upsetting the three Fs?

Mr. Flanagan

No. We must have free sale, fair rent and fixity of tenure.

So your case falls.

Free sale, of course, did not mean selling to non-nationals.

Not at all. It did not mean that non-nationals could come in and deprive smallholders of land.

You have not free sale then. That is one F gone.

(Interruptions).

The three Fs are of very little use to the thousands banished from the land by Fianna Fáil policy.

Order. These interruptions should cease.

We cannot allow the Deputy to talk nonsense.

Any nonsense has come from the other side of the House. Free sale does not mean the sale of Irish land to non-nationals. It is time serious action was taken in this regard.

Let Fine Gael say that outright. Let Fine Gael say: "We are out to do away with the three Fs."

Deputy Carter will get an opportunity of making his own speech.

Surely Fine Gael is not going to say the three Fs should be abolished when the Leader of the Fine Gael, his father and grandfather helped to provide fixity of tenure, free sale and fair rent for this country while ancestors of members of Fianna Fáil were on the very opposite side and against free sale and fixity of tenure.

That is incorrect. The Deputy should withdraw that allegation.

We know this Party stands for fixity of tenure, free sale and fair rent but we do not stand for tens of thousands of Irish boys and girls leaving the country while its land falls into the hands of foreigners.

The Deputy has already said that.

It cannot be said too often to penetrate into Fianna Fáil's mind.

The Deputy is eating his own speech.

We have in this country the lowest marriage rate in the world because particularly in rural Ireland all you find is men well advanced in years and all the younger people gone out of the country. We have been following a policy of race suicide and the only way that can be arrested is by the Minister implementing a proper land policy to encourage people to remain on the land. But Fianna Fáil are bankrupt of a land policy and the Minister's speech tonight is ample evidence of that. We have complete rural depopulation. I only trust that Fine Gael will get an opportunity to introduce the revolutionary changes which they are capable of bringing about.

You had an opportunity and could do nothing.

I hope the first stage of implementing our policy will be effected in North-East Dublin to-morrow. The Minister referred briefly to game development and the grants provided by his Department in this connection. No serious effort is being made to develop game preservation. We have a number of game farms and numerous representations have been made to the Minister to provide financial assistance and facilities for their owners so that these farms can be modernised and better equipped. The Minister knows that orders are flowing into those farms from all over the country and particularly from the Six Counties. These orders cannot be met and the owners of the farms are working almost blindfolded and handcuffed for want of certain facilities that could and should be provided by the Minister's Department for these people who have undertaken to run these farms for the sake of preserving game.

The importance of game preservation cannot be over-emphasised and the Department could do much more in this respect. At the same time, it would be wrong not to express appreciation of the little that is being done by providing greater facilities for regional councils. Those promoting game councils appreciate the little help they get from the Land Commission and are grateful for it. But tackling a matter of this kind in a half-hearted way will not produce results. I expected the Minister to present an extensive picture of game preservation apart from throwing a few halfpence to game councils here and there. That will not preserve game. To succeed in game preservation we must help progressive people with game farms, encourage the establishment of more of them by asking people to engage in the business and by giving them financial help.

I had expected something in the nature of a game board to be established long ago to go into this matter seriously and in detail and advise the Minister on the necessary expenditure. Game can be of great importance to the tourist industry and we know how much we can benefit by making our tourist facilities attractive. The advice and assistance of Bord Fáilte should be obtained in this regard. The Department of Lands should have a special section devoted entirely to the preservation of our game and special finances should be voted by the House for that purpose. We do not seem to realise the urgency and importance of the problem, and the Department are not dealing with it energetically enough.

Reference has been made to the Shannon Valley. The question of providing houses and outoffices has been dealt with there, and what has been done has been appreciated, but, like the game problem, this problem also has not been tackled in a courageous enough manner. The Minister has honestly admitted that what has been done in the way of improved housing will help those who wish to remain on in the Shannon Valley to do so undisturbed. but it will not relieve the flooding. The Department are usually alerted to the problem when serious flooding occurs. It would not be impossible to relieve the situation there. If the Land Commission, the Office of Public Works and the Forestry Division put their heads together, I believe something could be done, although I know it would certainly be most expensive. But now that we have provided these people with houses and out-offices, it is only right that we should take steps to prevent their lands being flooded. This is a problem that must be tackled, and the sooner the better.

I should like to make a brief reference to the activities of the Land Commission in my own constituency. I know that a number of holdings have been divided in my constituency recently. As the Minister correctly said, it is not possible to please everybody. I have known a number of holdings which were divided in a very fair manner in recent times. I feel I should say that because it is far from what I have expressed on other occasions. As I say, holdings were divided there in the past 12 months, and if I had any serious criticism to offer, I would have made it in the House.

Did the Deputy get any land himself?

I was not an applicant for it, but some of my supporters got it. I do not want to be looked on as a crank who always wants to find fault with the Government. If I see they deserve thanks and appreciation, they get thanks and appreciation. The inspectorate of the Land Commission have a very difficult job. It is sure to be more difficult when you have more applicants than there is land to give out. No matter what happens, some people will be disappointed in relation to land division. All that can be done is the best possible to relieve the situation. Many smallholders who have got additional holdings appreciate very much the benefits which will enable them to remain on the land in their own country.

I would ask the Minister and the Land Commission to be more generous in compensating employees of estates taken over and to take into consideration the age of these employees who are losing their employment. The Minister said there was a shortage of money for the purchase of land. I venture to say that, if he seeks additional money from this House for the purpose of compensating those who lose their employment, it will get the approval of all sides of the House. The more generously such people are treated, the better. I know of a number of occasions on which they could have been more generous in their treatment of these people.

I would ask the Minister to hold conferences more frequently with the Land Commission and endeavour to convey to them the wishes of the House. It is about time steps were taken to give land in special circumstances to landless men, more particularly to cottage tenants whose cottages are convenient to estates. There is such a thing as the accommodation plot of four to six acres on which the council cottage tenant may graze a cow or a horse. I want to put this on record—I am glad Deputy Corry is here to hear it—that at one stage it was the cottage tenant who was the backbone of sugar beet production for the sugar factories before their cottage plots became infested with eelworm.

Do not let James hear you.

These cottage tenants continuously produced a good quantity of beet from their plots until the plots became affected by eelworm and the sugar company had to discontinue giving contracts.

The blessings of beet!

Now that the sugar company are being more generous with contracts, landless men and cottiers should be given an opportunity in this regard. I know the Land Commission have a general policy to increase the acreage of smallholders to economic size, but this should be proceeded with at more speed so that married men with large families living in cottages will be in a position to rear their families and to educate them in a proper manner. The Land Commission should feel bound to help out such people by giving them parcels of from ten to 15 acres. This would help them to educate their families and it would also help the national production and the economy as a whole. We have only to think back to the war years to realise that it was the smallholders in rural Ireland who did most for the country's economy then. It was not the big man who kept the country on its feet. It was the poor people who worked hardest and we know the small credit they got for it afterwards, as evidenced by the lack of understanding of their problems by the present Government.

Those are points the Minister should bear in mind. Deputies from the southern part of the country who pass through my constituency will have noticed the modern type of Land Commission dwelling house being erected on the Franks Estate near Mountrath. The model house is on display now in the main hall of Leinster House and I should like to hear the comments of Deputies and of the Minister on it. I greatly admire it. It is bright, attractive architecturally, and though it may not be furnished in most cases as luxuriously as the model suggests, the cottage should help to brighten the appearance of the countryside when it is erected generally. I must congratulate all concerned in its design.

I thought that was in the Fine Gael programme.

Deputy Corry will agree that while there were good points in the Fine Gael programme, all the points of Fianna Fáil policy were not bad either. Unlike Deputy Corry, I do not propose to be narrow-minded about this: I give credit where credit is due. I do not propose to take all the credit for the new design for future Land Commission cottages. I feel sure Deputy Blowick will have something to say on this matter and will enlighten the House about the preliminary work on this cottage done while he was in office. The next step will be to have these houses erected where required. I trust an effort will be made to erect them as near as possible to main roads and not to hide them in laneways and behind fields where nobody can see them. They are attractive and will serve to improve the appearance of the countryside if erected where they can be seen. They will certainly serve to take away the gloomy appearance of certain areas.

I would urge the Land Commission to do something to improve the quality of fencing cottage plots. I suggest that the concrete stakes and strands of wire should be got rid of and fences composed of iron posts erected in their place. This would encourage tenants to maintain the fences and to improve their appearance with paint. I understand there is a type of teak fencing stake available now which is quite cheap. I again urge the Land Commission, through the Minister, to do something in this regard.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 30th May, 1963.
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