asked the Minister for Education what steps have been taken to ensure that intermediate and leaving certificates awarded as a result of this year's examinations will have the same value as those awarded hitherto, taking into account the fears that have been expressed on this subject.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Intermediate and Leaving Certificate Examinations.
35.
Any such fears are without foundation as the work of supervising and marking at the Certificate examinations will be carried out by persons who are fully competent to undertake the task.
36.
asked the Minister for Education how many applications were received for appointment as (a) superintendent and (b) examiner in respect of the current examinations for intermediate and leaving certificates; and how many appointments were made under each heading.
There were 1,628 applicants for the posts as superintendents and 807 appointments were made; 1,220 persons have applied for posts as examiners. It is proposed to make 636 appointments.
37.
asked the Minister for Education the qualifications required by him to be held by applicants for appointment as (a) superintendent and (b) examiner in respect of the current examinations for intermediate and leaving certificates.
No academic qualifications are required this year or any other year in the case of applicants for the post of superintendent at the Certificate examinations.
Persons appointed to the post of examiner are normally holders of a degree or equivalent qualification in the subject which they are appointed to examine. This normal procedure will be followed this year.
First of all, I would refer the Minister to the reply he gave to Question No. 35 when he said the examinations will be carried out by persons who are fully competent to undertake the task, carrying the implication that there is no need for parents or children to worry about the results of the examinations. Would the Minister then, having got over the first hurdle, in view of the fact that the most serious task lies ahead—the marking of the papers—make a magnaminous gesture towards a very honourable profession, which, in my opinion, has been very badly led and, in order to have good relations restored, agree to meet the secondary teachers so that the examinations and the marking of the papers will be carried out in the manner in which they have been carried out heretofore?
To answer the last part of the Deputy's supplementary first, the examinations this year will be carried out by examiners equally as competent and reliable as in any other year——
What about the gravedigger?
Whatever about the Deputy's Party, I do not see anything contemptible about a gravedigger.
They may be good at digging graves but I do not know about examinations. Leave them at digging the graves.
I do not think anybody took them away from digging graves except to make a joke of them and I should not like to do that. The examinations this year will differ from every other year in only one respect: this year there are a number of people who would like to discredit the examinations. The reason is that they withdrew themselves from helping with the examinations and the reason they did that was that two arbitrators, in making salary awards, closed the gap which existed between national teachers and secondary teachers. What the secondary teachers wanted me to do would, in effect, be to break away from arbitration decisions and open that gap to the disadvantage of another group of teachers.
I could not do that. I explained to the secondary teachers that no matter what they did—if they withdrew from examinations, boycotted them, even if they succeeded in wrecking the examinations—it would not affect their position. I could not change the relationship established at arbitration between them and the national teachers even if I were prepared to do so. I told them that no matter what they did to the examinations, it would not affect that position. Still, they not alone withdrew from the examinations but made every effort in their power to intimidate those associated with the examinations. Now I am aware there are attempts to throw dirty water on the certificates that will be awarded. Nothing they do to the examinations can affect their original grievance. I met them; we had a long discussion and I explained quite clearly what the situation was. Even if the Deputy wants me to restore good relations, I can do it only at the expense of another group of teachers.
Is it not a fact that in 1963 when the Mangan award was made to the national teachers, the Minister altered that himself? Is it not a fact that the decision of arbitration affecting secondary teachers was given in their absence? Surely the Minister will appreciate that there is a case and that at this stage a man in his position should not grind his heel into the face of his opponents. For the sake of future relations between the teachers and his Department, would he agree to my suggestion to bury the hatchet, to meet the teachers and restore the harmony that was there and then have the examination papers marked on the basis on which they are normally marked?
If I may clear a point —the Deputy stated that I interfered with the arbitration finding in relation to the national teachers and many secondary teachers seem to be suffering from the same misapprehension. What the Government did was to take a decision following that arbitration proceeding to raise the status of all teachers and what the national teachers got after the Mangan status award from the Government, the other teachers got also. The secondary teachers now want the Government to intervene and raise one group of teachers at the expense of others, to widen the gap. This is quite a different question. All teachers got the status award that was given as a matter of policy by the Government to all groups of teachers.
Will the Minister do what I suggest?
As far as burying the hatchet is concerned, all I can say is that all the energies and resources I have at the moment are required in getting the examinations done. Everybody realises that it is not the end of the world but we must get the examinations done and the certificates this year must stand up to those of every other year.
(Interruptions.)
Is the Minister prepared, between the time the examinations conclude and the marking of the papers, to give further consideration to my suggestion, which is to meet the teachers even though there is no question at this stage of committing himself to meeting their wishes in any respect?
The Deputy has asked that question several times.
It is very important.
It is, but there are a great many other important things that do not necessarily arise.
I did have a lengthy meeting with the teachers and it was quite a civilised affair. We discussed all the problems and I said no matter what they asked me to do they would not gain anything. My fear was that they would get any idea that I was half-promising anything. I made it quite clear that no matter what they did in respect of the examinations I could not do what they asked.