asked the Taoiseach whether the application by the Government for full membership of the EEC still stands; or whether consideration has recently been given to the desirability of applying for association instead.
2.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Membership of EEC.
1.
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement with regard to his talks with the French Foreign Minister, Mr. Couve de Murville, during his visit to this country, stating in particular whether the position of this country's application for membership of the EEC was discussed; and, if so, what conclusions were reached on this subject.
3.
asked the Taoiseach what matters were discussed at his meeting with M. Maurice Couve de Murville, French Foreign Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
4.
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his recent talks with M. Couve de Murville; and whether the Government have reconsidered their attitude to seeking full membership of the EEC, with special reference to the desirability of securing associate membership.
5.
asked the Taoiseach whether there are any grounds for a report that the visit of the French Foreign Minister was connected with a new French initiative with a view to opening the way for Irish associations with the Common Market; and if, in fact, this matter was discussed with M. Couve de Murville, and with what result.
6.
asked the Taoiseach if the question of Ireland's entry into the Common Market was discussed with the French Foreign Minister on his visit here; if the agricultural and industrial problems of such entry were discussed; and if any conclusions were reached.
With your permission, Sir, I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 6 together.
I would refer the Deputies to the agreed communiqué issued last Saturday, at the conclusion of the visit of M. Couve de Murville, the French Minister for Foreign Affairs. With your permission, Sir, I propose to circulate in the Official Report a copy of the English text of that communiqué.
The discussions with M. Couve de Murville covered the major current international political problems of interest to France and Ireland and all aspects of relations between the two countries, including Ireland's application for membership of the European Economic Community.
Our application for membership of the EEC still stands and will be actively pursued when circumstances make this course desirable in the national interest.
Following is the English text of the communiqué:
IRISH-FRENCH COMMUNIQUÉ.
On the invitation of the Irish Government, Monsieur Couve de Murville, French Minister for Foreign Affairs, visited Dublin on the 11th and 12th June. He had a full exchange of views with the Taoiseach, Mr. Lemass, and with the Minister for External Affairs, Mr. Aiken, on all aspects of relations between the two countries as well as on the principal international problems of interest to both France and Ireland. Monsieur Couve de Murville was also received by Mr. de Valera, President of Ireland.
The two Ministers resumed their consideration already begun in November, 1963, on the occasion of Mr. Aiken's visit to Paris, of the range of questions affecting the relations between the two countries. They noted with satisfaction that no difficulties exist in Franco-Irish relations which are characterised by a friendship deeply rooted in history and by a mutual and profound sympathy between the two peoples.
The two Ministers expressed pleasure at the close cultural relations which exist traditionally between Ireland and France and which are founded on a common civilisation. They considered it desirable to develop further cultural exchanges between the two countries and to increase the provision of places for scholarship holders and stagiaires whose numbers have already been increasing for some years past. In particular they considered it desirable to develop further the teaching of the French language in Irish educational programmes. Monsieur Couve de Murville and Mr. Aiken agreed to the preparation of a cultural agreement which would both strengthen the existing bonds and increase the number of cultural exchanges.
Economic relations between France and Ireland were also closely reviewed. The two Ministers noted with satisfaction that trade had more than doubled since 1961 and that this growth was taking place in both directions. They have expressed their desire for an increase in trade, balanced in so far as may be possible, in the mutual interest of both countries. Detailed negotiations will take place in Dublin beginning the 6th July. They noted increasing French participation in Irish industrial progress and they recognised the value of French investment in the Irish economy.
Monsieur Couve de Murville reviewed both with the Taoiseach and with the Minister for External Affairs the major current problems in the international political sphere which are of interest to France and Ireland.
At the conclusion of the talks, which took place in an atmosphere of cordiality and mutual confidence, the Ministers were agreed on the usefulness of such exchanges of views which serve to strengthen the existing bonds between the two countries.
Department of External Affairs,
Dublin,
13th June, 1964.
Was there any discussion at all about the possibility of association with the EEC rather than full membership?
I must point out that M. Couve de Murville came here as the French Foreign Minister, not as a representative of the EEC.
In that objection to the admission of Britain came from France and in that the admission of Ireland depended on the admission of Britain, surely it would not be unreasonable for Ireland's application to be discussed with the French Foreign Minister?
And it was discussed. I want to make it quite clear that proceeding with our application for membership depends on our own decision.
Has there been any suggestion of bilateral agreement on matters of trade between us and the EEC?
And the EEC?
Yes?
This matter is being considered and certain discussions have already taken place. As far as M. Couve de Murville is concerned, arrangements were made for the negotiation of a bilateral agreement affecting trade with France.
Could I ask the Taoiseach if the French Foreign Minister gave any indication as to whether the French Government would favour more an application for association than for membership, in the event of our continuing to press for membership of the EEC?
It is a matter for our own decision whether we seek membership, association or nothing at all.
What are you doing?
I have made it quite clear that our decision is for membership and there is no question of that decision being modified.
The Taoiseach said a few times recently that if Britain did not go in we could not go in.
It is a matter for our own decision, in the light of our own circumstances, what action we take.
Is the Taoiseach aware that one of the high officials of the EEC, namely, the principal administrator, the Director General for External Relations, stated during the course of the visit of the French Foreign Minister here that a country which by unilateral action reduced tariffs, was acting in a very philanthropic way in a world full of tariffs? In view of that important pronouncement by that important person, would the Taoiseach not reconsider Ireland's position now, as we may not have the bargaining power as a result of removing tariffs at this stage if we are offered even associate membership by EEC in future?
The policy which the Government are following is designed to improve the efficiency of Irish industry.
As a result of the unilateral reductions we make, will we get an allowance for that as bargaining power if our application for membership or association is to be further considered by the EEC?
What we hope to get is a more efficient industrial organisation here.
Are we going it alone?
The Taoiseach says this is a matter entirely for us. Is it not a fact that, if that is true, it would be equally true to say that the British Government could be a full member if they had received the support of the French Government instead of opposition?
That is a matter of opinion.
Surely it is important to know whether the French Government are prepared to support associate or full membership?
The Taoiseach stated in reply that the application for full membership is one for our Government in the light of the circumstances that presented themselves in the future. Does that refer to the circumstance of whether Great Britain becomes a full member of the Common Market or not, or has the Taoiseach any anticipation of full membership for Ireland in the absence of corresponding full membership for Great Britain?
The future relationship between Britain and the Community is, of course, a very important factor in our consideration.
The Taoiseach is not prepared to say—or is he prepared to say—when he refers to the future circumstances relating to our application for full membership, has he in mind the question of whether Great Britain will be a full member or whether she will be an associate member?
Yes, of course, that is an important consideration. I might point out that the term "full membership" is misleading. There is no other form of membership.
Any reference to associate membership is not membership?
There is no such thing as associate membership.
Could the Taoiseach indicate to the House what circumstances he envisages would recreate a condition for the pursuance of our application for Common Market membership?
I am not prepared to do that now.
Could the Taoiseach not give some indication as to what is in his mind with regard to it?
The intention is this country should become a member of the European Economic Community.
Will our application for full membership be considered in the near future?
It is a matter entirely for our decision whether we wish to pursue it. We will do this when it is in our interest.
That is, when Great Britain becomes a member.
The Taoiseach said earlier on that our application would be considered in the near future. Maybe I took him up wrongly in that.
Is there any significance in the fact that the Taoiseach left out the word "full" before "member"?
There is only one form of membership of the Community. There is no such thing as associate membership. This idea that we can get the benefits of membership at a reduced fee is without foundation.