I move amendment No. 1 which stands in the name of Deputy McGilligan:
In page 3, section 6, subsection (5), line 44, after "order" to insert "which shall be open to amendment by way of reduction in the amount of the grant proposed to be varied."
Last week, when we were winding up on this Bill, Deputy McGilligan asked the Minister for an explanation. As reported at column 969 of the Official Report, Volume 211, No. 6, Deputy McGilligan said:
The Minister may be able to advise me now on a point. I had an amendment to section 6 which deals with the annual grant to the Board. The Minister also tabled an amendment and told us that the type of order he contemplated under section 6 was a "take it or leave it" type of order and could not be amended. The chief difference between my point of view and his was that my amendment was that the order should be open to amendment. The Minister's reply was that the parliamentary draftsman had more or less insisted on the form we have from the Minister. I asked the Minister why and he agreed that he was not briefed on the matter and proposed to be briefed at a later stage. Has he got the explanation now as to why my form, asking that an order should come in draft form and be open to amendment, is wrong? I am asking this for the purpose of putting down an amendment.
The Ceann Comhairle said:
I do not want a debate on this. I can see the Deputy's point of view.
The Minister said:
The main answer is that this procedure could equally apply to the Seanad. You could have a position of hopeless confusion with amendments upwards and downwards in the Seanad and upwards and downwards in the Dáil and it is not considered desirable.
Deputy McGilligan said:
I cannot hear the Minister. Perhaps it is the acoustics.
The Minister then said:
The difficulty is that under the procedure laid down in the Constitution, if the Seanad amends a Bill already passed by the Dáil, or in the case of a Money Bill makes recommendations, the Bill must come back for further consideration by the Dáil. There is no such procedure for ministerial orders and the situation could arise, if the Deputy's amendment were accepted, that the Dáil could amend the order in one way and the Seanad could amend it in another way, and there is no procedure for reconciling the amendments between the Dáil and the Seanad.
Deputy McGilligan then said:
I thought the point was that if a draft order were made and were open to amendment—this is about varying the subsidy—an amendment might be proposed which would increase the amount in any year and thereby put a charge on the State.