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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 Dec 1964

Vol. 213 No. 5

Adjournment Debate. - Galway Fish Landings.

In the course of a series of questions I tabled today in regard to landings of fish at Galway by a Spanish trawler, I asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Lands if Irish sea fishermen were consulted before this licence was granted. His reply was that Galway fishermen were not specifically consulted about the present temporary arrangement.

As I see it, the trend of the Parliamentary Secretary's reply to this and other questions shows Government policy in regard to the future of our Irish fishing industry especially as it affects us in the west and our Irish trawlermen.

I also asked if the Galway fish freezing plant was still under the control of An Bord Iascaigh Mhara. To that, I got no reply. It is of paramount importance to get that answer. It would also be interesting to know when a secret agreement was entered into with these fish merchants who have now such a controlling interest in the fish plant at Galway and what are the financial arrangements between these people and the Board.

The Parliamentary Secretary states that his information is that fish was not refused at the Galway plant due to shortage of staff. I made it my business to inquire in Galway and I was informed by members of the staff that the reason was that they could not handle the fish. I do not know who has informed the Parliamentary Secretary but he states that fish was occasionally refused on the ground of being in poor condition. I can tell the Parliamentary Secretary why. Before I do so, I should like to say that I have here positive evidence of fish in perfect condition and suitable size being refused on the doorstep of An Bord Iascaigh Mhara. If the Parliamentary Secretary wants it, I can let him have it. These pictures were taken in November, a time of the year when fish could not easily go off. The fish were in perfect condition. I saw the fish and I am prepared to stand over what I have said in the face of the Board or any member of the Fianna Fáil Government. I should like to remind the Parliamentary Secretary, who is an Irish speaker, that these fish were landed by an all Irish-speaking crew.

They speak native Irish.

Yes, real Irish, native Irish, and they got it in their milk, what is more.

With the blas.

The thing the Parliamentary Secretary detests.

I would further remind the Parliamentary Secretary that in the last few weeks Pat Jennings—that name should ring a bell with An Bord Iascaigh Mhara—was refused acceptance by the Board of 60 boxes of fish that were in perfect condition. This fish, as in a previous case that I mentioned, had to be sold for a few shillings for fish meal.

Could the Deputy say on what date that occurred?

Within the past three or four weeks. I cannot specify the date. Do not mind the date. I am giving facts and I will stand over them. Pat Jennings needs no introduction to An Bord Iascaigh Mhara. Members of the Board were delighted to be on television with Pat Jennings when he was shown as being one of the best fishermen off our coast and was presented with a high award for his efficiency. I may add that his crew were all Irish speaking, like all the other fishermen based on the west coast. It was rather strange to hear three languages spoken on the quayside at Galway—the Irish language spoken by the Irish trawlermen, Spanish spoken by the Spaniards and very fluent English being spoken by a gentleman with a very Oxford accent.

Galway is the City of the Tribes.

Yes, but this gentleman did not come from the City of the Tribes. I am afraid that if Mr. Eoin O'Mahony were asked to trace his background he would have his hands full. This gentleman was able to flaunt his licence, that was given by the Parliamentary Secretary's Department, in the face of these Irish speakers.

I should like to make it clear that there is no ill feeling towards the Spanish fishermen coming in there. These men are only pawns in the game. We know who the gentlemen are who are playing the game. I watched the fish being landed from this trawler. My attention was drawn to dogfish that were being landed. If one of our Galway trawlers dared to land that type of fish, we know what would be done to it. Yet, not alone did An Bord Iascaigh Mhara accept it, but they sent out members of their staff, when the ordinary draymen refused, to carry the stuff over to An Bord Iascaigh Mhara from the quay side. I am a witness and I will stand over anything I say here to-night. It would be very interesting to know what financial arrangement was made for the payment of this staff for such transportation.

I have referred to the landing of dogfish. I inquired of some of the gentlemen who were interested in having the fish landed and was informed that this stuff would be all right for the continental market. That is very interesting. Dogfish, apparently, is good enough for the continental market but prime fish, in perfect condition, is not to be accepted by An Bord Iascaigh Mhara for any market, Irish or otherwise.

I should like to know from the Parliamentary Secretary what action has been taken in regard to the fine mesh net that we have seen on this foreign fishing trawler, so fine that one could not get one's small finger through it. If an Irish trawler had such a net, the owner would be subject to a fine of not less than £50. I can go further and say that the Department were informed. I should like to know what action they have taken to deal with this infringement of fishing law. I do not like to mention the name of the gentleman who was informed but I have seen to it.

The whole purpose of refusing to accept fish from the Irish fishermen is to depress the prices to Irish speakers. This is a very poor contribution from one who sets himself up as being a great Irish speaker and in the light of the Buy Irish campaign, all this lip service we have heard from the Departments these past few weeks. It would be interesting to know if An Bord Iascaigh Mhara intend to process turbot—for those who may not know, turbot is called the turkey of the sea—and sole into fish fingers. I should like to know if this fish will find its way into the Irish market to the exclusion of Irish caught fish.

I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will give me the answers I seek, because if he does not, I shall table questions here in the House until I get an answer to everything I ask. Does he intend to charge an import levy on this importation of foreign fish?

A fishery harbour has been mooted for Galway and the view is now widely held that this is for foreign trawlers only; no Irish need apply. They have positive proof from the way they have been treated and completely ignored in their efforts to get proper berthage in Galway while the Galway harbour scheme is going through. In the present position where these Irish trawlers are based, if the wind came overnight from the wrong point, the whole fleet could be wrecked. I brought this to the notice of the Parliamentary Secretary but nothing has been done.

The action in this case is merely the thin end of the wedge for what is to come. The view is that foreign trawlers will be based in Galway at the expense of the Irishman. It is a sad day when Fianna Fáil have allowed the land of Ireland to be swept from under the Irish people, when industries are now in the stranglehold of foreigners and, last but not least, the fish of our coasts are now to be handed over to them.

The Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries here for quite a while have given great promises but I would advise them when there is a general election, which we expect very soon, to keep out of Galway. They have done enough damage there already and if there is an election, the people will give Fianna Fáil their answer. I hope Deputy Geoghegan, who was very silent at Question Time today, will come into the debate to talk of the Irish-speaking trawlermen off the west coast. I shall give him his opportunity.

I thought when we got the new Parliamentary Secretary in the Fisheries Branch, it would be a case of a new broom sweeping clean. We had a barnacled old warrior here in the person of the Minister for Defence, then Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Bartley, in charge of fisheries. When the war ended, his method of solving all these problems was to charter and buy three second-hand German trawlers at a cost of approximately £110,000 to clean up our Irish fisheries. I think it was Deputy Cunningham who said once in this House that he did not believe in part-time fishermen and the then Parliamentary Secretary said that the salvation of our fisheries would be three deep-sea trawlers, and he proceeded to buy these second-hand trawlers from Germany.

There was a change of Government, but prior to that one of our boatyards, Meevagh, was closed down by the Parliamentary Secretary. When Deputy Dillon took over responsibility for fisheries in the first inter-Party Government, the first thing he did was to reopen Meevagh boatyard and the next thing he did was to give more employment in the building of ships for inshore and outshore fishing without talking of deep-sea fishing. From that we began to build up our fisheries.

The next thing we found necessary was to ensure continuity of supply by means of preserving fish in the lacuna periods in which our boats could not go to sea. We decided the first thing that was necessary was to procure freezing plants and adopt proper methods of distribution. I remember, as a result of Deputy Dillon's policy in this House and in the country generally, the procurement and purchase of distributing vans with frigidaire equipment installed. They were purchased by An Bord Iascaigh Mhara but they were later sold as secondhand at practically half the price for which they were purchased. We established the deep-freezing plant and, associated with it, the fishmeal plant and from that we thought we would enlarge, but in those days the theme song of Fianna Fáil was: "Anything you can do I can do bigger and better than you," and they proceeded to establish the Atlantic Fisheries fishmeal plant in Killybegs. It was built, as we all know, extravagantly and out of proportion, and we found it then becoming a national liability.

Here we are today at the very same thing. As Deputy Coogan pointed out, licences are being granted to foreigners. I am sorry, as an O'Donnell, to call a Spaniard a foreigner because Spain accepted an O'Donnell. I am sorry to call them foreigners but licences are being issued to foreigners to come in and compete, as Deputy Coogan has pointed out, against native Irish speakers. I know the Parliamentary Secretary will say they must fish in the same conditions and on the same terms outside territorial waters as other deep-sea trawlers. That is not so. Rounded whiting or cod caught by these foreign trawlers are gutted and frozen outside territorial waters. But these trawlers that have been licensed are bringing in immature fish knowing that in that fishmeal factory they can sell the same fish and procure the same price for it as we are procuring for offals of prime fish. I am sorry I must give time to the Parliamentary Secretary who has only ten minutes but on some other occasion I hope to have a word on this matter.

I know that Fine Gael in general and Deputy Coogan in particular find the facts confusing. They cloud the issue but I shall try as far as possible in the time at my disposal to give the facts again. I feel quite confident that Deputy Coogan and Deputy O'Donnell know the facts as well as I do. I wonder what is their object in trying to mislead the public and, particularly the Irish fishermen whose whole future is at stake? If I withdraw this licence I am stabbing the Irish fishermen in the back. If Fine Gael do not know——

I do not want to interrupt, but who owns the fishmeal factory in Galway?

I shall deal with that. Deputy Coogan said that in my reply today I did not answer as to the ownership or operation of this factory. In fact, in my reply I said: "the processing factory operated by An Bord Iascaigh Mhara at Galway." It is owned and operated by the Board as stated in my reply.

That is very interesting.

The object of this Government is to expand the fishing industry very substantially. It is perfectly obvious that even the considerable increase in the home consumption of fish, even doubling it, will not be nearly sufficient to give us the expansion in the industry which the country and the fishermen need. So that the real hope for expansion lies in exports. It is also obvious that the trend in our food industry in general and in the fish industry in particular is towards processed, pre-packaged goods. Therefore, I am quite convinced that the future of the Irish fishing industry and the future of the Irish fishermen depends on a considerable expansion of the processing industry.

I do not want to interrupt the Parliamentary Secretary but is it demersal fish he is talking about?

I am talking about all fish we can catch.

Demersal fish is what we are talking of at the moment.

I am talking of all fish we can catch and process and whiting is a substantial part of the landings.

Deputy O'Donnell should not interrupt.

I apologise.

Whiting, which is a substantial portion of the Irish fishermen's catch, has an unlimited market in the processing industry.

In the fishmeal industry.

Will Deputy O'Donnell allow me the few minutes to which I am entitled? I am referring to process ing of fish, to what is going on at the moment, filleting, pre-packaging and exporting whiting in a frozen condition. That is what is happening. Fish fingers, which we were told could not be produced in this country, are being produced on a vast scale. We are reducing considerably our dependence on imports and we are now breaking into the export market. The orders which are available for the factory in Galway at present would keep the factory working at full capacity with three shifts a day and we could increase the employment enormously and expand that factory and have more factories built if we could get supplies——

Get them from Killybegs.

The Killybegs factory has to import fish.

No; that is the fishmeal factory you are talking about.

I am talking about the fishing industry. The imports by the Spanish trawler have enabled the factory to be kept open and enabled the 58 people to be kept in employment there. We have created a situation where we can expand that labour force and when our Irish fishermen have heavy landings we can cope with them. If we did not reach this situation we could not cope with them and we should have to close down the factory. Would the people then thank Deputy Coogan for having closed down this factory, which is what he and his Party want to do?

There is evidence that fish were refused.

I shall deal with that. Deputies know that the supplies landed at Galway in recent months could not keep the factory going in processed fish. I do not know if Deputy Coogan professes to be an expert on what is required for processing but the reports I have received from Bord Iascaigh Mhara and which I have no reason to disbelieve and would accept before Deputy Coogan's "expert" evidence indicate that the fish he referred to as having been rejected from the fisherman he mentioned were rejected on the grounds that the fish were undersize for filleting.

Here is the proof of it.

I also have confirmation from the fishermen's representatives that the fish which had been rejected at Galway was rejected rightly because it was too small or in bad condition except in one case to which Deputy Coogan has not referred. If necessary, I shall deal with that on another occasion but I shall not waste time going into it now. He did not make the case he should have made——

So there is another case?

There is a case which can be well answered. The case made by Deputy Coogan was based on misconceptions and inaccuracies. I want to make it clear that the licence which was granted was granted on the basis that it would not constitute any interference whatever with the Irish fishermen's market. No evidence has been tendered by Deputy Coogan or Deputy O'Donnell to show that the Irish fishermen's market has been affected one iota.

The strike at Galway is sufficient.

The Parliamentary Secretary is entitled to speak without interruption.

The facts are rather confusing to the Fine Gael Party.

The Fianna Fáil facts.

According to Deputy Coogan—I do not know whether he is truly representing the Fine Gael Party —he is against any foreign investment in industry——

In the fishing industry, certainly.

He referred to factories as well.

And the fishery harbours you are going to build for the foreign trawlers.

Deputy Coogan has a lot to answer for if he convinces the fishermen of this. Their whole future is bound up in the type of operation we are engaged in in Galway. The essential feature is to ensure regular supplies. My efforts are directed in that way towards getting a vast expansion in the processing industry. I want Irish fishermen to partake in this and get the benefits of it and not to be misled into thinking it is not in their interests.

To whom did you give the licence?

Ask Seamus Rickard of Howth.

(Interruptions.)

The Deputies opposite got their chance.

Go out to Spiddal and learn your Irish.

Take your medicine.

Shut your mouth.

I have no doubt that if the fishing industry is developed on a rational basis along the lines I have suggested we will get a considerable private investment in this type of industry.

But not from the fishmongers?

And I hope some of it will be foreign investment. We have very good grounds for believing that this is on the way, but the kind of thing that is happening here tonight is no help to it. There is no reason why we cannot develop this industry and why our fishermen should not get the full benefit of it unless they are grossly misled by those who should know better. Do Fine Gael want to close down the factory in Galway and if they do not, how do they think it can be kept going?

Put more offal into it.

We are not talking about the fishmeal factory.

And about what?

We are talking about processing.

Take the fish from Killybegs.

The Deputy obviously does not know what is happening in Killybegs. They have to import fish.

That is a lie. If the Ceann Comhairle objects to that term I shall withdraw it and say it is an untruth.

(Interruptions.)

Killybegs are importing fish.

All right; Killybegs are importing fish.

There is a half-minute left.

I want to make it clear that the policy of the Government is to expand the fishing industry and we have no intention of being put off our path by any misdirected efforts of Deputy Coogan or Fine Gael or anybody else. I intend to continue that policy here and I am not going to stop it. No Irish fisherman has been in the least affected by these imports.

That is proper cod.

The Deputy knows it is true. Has any fish been landed by Irish fishermen in Galway since the Spanish trawler's landing?

No, but there has been fish landed at Killybegs and it has gone to the fish-processing plant.

The Deputy knows what I say is true and he also knows that I have issued directions under this licence that if the Irish fishermen land fish and the Spanish trawler lands fish, the Irish fishermen's fish must get priority. The Deputy is simply trying to mislead the fishermen whose whole future is at stake. The Deputy has a big responsibility in this matter.

That is the red herring: this is the fact.

Holding up a photograph proves nothing.

The Dáil adjourned at 11 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 10th December, 1964.

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