Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 20 Oct 1965

Vol. 218 No. 1

Committee on Finance. - Housing Bill, 1965: Money Resolution.

Minister for Local Government (Mr. Blaney)

I move:

That it is expedient to authorise such payments out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas as are necessary to give effect to any Act of the present session to make provision with respect to housing (including the provision of loans and grants by the State and by local authorities in relation to housing), for that purpose to consolidate with amendments certain enactments relating to housing, to amend certain other enactments and to make provision with respect to other matters connected with the matters aforesaid.

Mr. Sweetman

I wonder has the Minister got any information, or can he give the House any information, as to the progress in relation to the Ballymun housing scheme and the comparative costs that will arise in respect of the production of houses by that method as compared with the more conventional method of building similar sized houses? It seems to me this is about the only point at which it could be raised. I think the House will be glad to know what are the comparative costs of conventional-type building and system-building in Ballymun.

Mr. Blaney

In regard to the progress at Ballymun, the overall progress, not necessarily the scheduled progress that was originally envisaged, it is going ahead in some degrees faster than was anticipated. In so far as comparative costs are concerned, we can take it that at the time of the placing of the contract, they are approximately comparable, with possibly the industrialised system having the edge on the other, that is, being lower.

Mr. Sweetman

Do I understand the Minister says he believes at present that the cost of a system-built house will be more or less the same as, or slightly lower than, the cost of a conventional house of the same size?

Mr. Blaney

It will be round about.

Mr. Sweetman

This story going around the trade is not correct, then, that the system-built house will cost substantially more than the conventional house of the same size, running up to about £500 per house?

Mr. Blaney

Let us not tie this thing down too strictly to a house compared with a house.

Mr. Sweetman

Or a flat.

Mr. Blaney

This is really a scheme of 3,000 odd dwellings of all shapes and sizes of houses and flats and the total cost anticipated to be met in regard to the total scheme would bear out what I have said, that is, the cost would be the same. The industrialised system of providing these would have a slight edge on the traditional method of doing the same job in the same place.

Mr. Clinton

Would a house of the same size built by this system-building be cheaper than a house built by the ordinary conventional methods?

Mr. Blaney

No, not at all. If you were to build one house, it could cost the price of a hundred houses.

Mr. S. Dunne

Have we any assurance that it will be faster?

Mr. Blaney

This is one of the things that, in retrospect, it is necessary to go into at this stage. This is the whole basis and one of the principal reasons for entering into this type of contract, so that it would be in addition to, not in substitution for, what was being done and capable of being done by the corporation through its normal traditional role of house-building over the years.

Mr. S. Dunne

The point I want to make is: have we assurance that system-building makes it faster?

Mr. Blaney

Well, as sure as one can be of anything.

Mr. S. Dunne

Ballymun is dragging its feet as far as I can see.

Mr. Blaney

Dragging its feet is really wrong—it is right down in the clay; the necessary work is being done and the factories that have to be provided there are also going on at the same time.

Mr. S. Dunne

When do you anticipate there will be dwellings there?

Mr. Blaney

A glib answer to that would be that there are dwellings there already but we anticipate having dwellings in the month of December.

Mr. S. Dunne

That is contrary to what I hear from workmen on the job.

Mr. Blaney

We could, in fact, have had houses handed over now but we would have been handing them over in the midst of all the machinery, muck, clay and earthmoving equipment. I do not think they could have been occupied. It would have been to the disadvantage of the contractors' development as a whole if, in fact, a number of houses were placed in the hands of tenants as early as we had really contracted to do so.

Mr. S. Dunne

Any condition would be better than the present one.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolution reported and agreed to.