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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 1 Mar 1966

Vol. 221 No. 4

Committee on Finance. - Vote 40—Industry and Commerce (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That a supplementary sum not exceeding £1,620,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1966, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, including certain Services administered by that Office, and for payment of sundry Grants-in-Aid.—(Minister for Industry and Commerce).

I have to answer only a few points made on this Estimate, but before doing so, I want to deal with a point which would not normally come within the scope of the Supplementary Estimate, that is, the question of the Dundalk Engineering Company referred to by Deputy Donegan. This company since its inception has been financed by Government financial agencies and the Minister and the Department have never interfered in its operation and development. We have had no function in this matter at all and no money sought for it flowed from the Government.

I understand that the necessary financial facilities were extended to these companies for as long as there was any hope of viability. The most up-to-date appraisal of their present prospects was obtained before the decision was made to appoint a receiver. It was never intended that these companies should be given a permanent status of uneconomic undertakings subsidised for social purposes and no one would question the right of the sole debenture shareholders to appoint a receiver, if they thought the situation necessitated such a procedure. The appointment of a receiver will not inhibit the economic development of these companies in so far as such development is possible.

With regard to other points raised, the first was in relation to market development grants and with regard to this, I have to say that there are only two firms which have sent in applications for grants more than two weeks ago and which have not yet been paid. I say that in reply to Deputy Donegan who lightly but firmly stated that there was a general complaint against the Department that there is a delay in the payment of these grants. It would not have killed Deputy Donegan to say that there was one complaint from an industry in his own constituency. I may say that that firm has had very individual attention.

In this matter the one complaint referred to had its basis in the very complex nature of the case. That claim has been paid and I do not think, in fairness, that an allegation should have been made that a general slowness of payment existed. The scheme is working quite smoothly and to the general satisfaction of the people availing of it. Most firms have now developed a procedure which enables them to present their claims in less than two weeks. In some cases payment is made on deposit of the documentation, pending final determination by the British customs authorities of the value of the goods. In these cases a percentage is paid, pending production of evidence of the final assessment and on receipt of this evidence, full payment is made. I do not think that any Deputy would see fairness in the allegation that there is a general delay.

Recently in this House Deputy Donegan, who speaks for Fine Gael in these matters, suggested that the rate of growth this year of 3.8 per cent fell short of the average target over ten years of the Programme for Economic Expansion and he suggested that this represented some failure. Only a week before, I had been congratulating Irish industry on attaining this level of increase over the record year of 1964, in spite of the enormous difficulties put in the way of Irish industry by the British Government's temporary charge on imports. I repeat that it is a matter of congratulation that in the face of this obstacle, the record figure of 1964 was not alone maintained but surpassed. I do not think any balanced judgment would support Deputy Donegan's claim that this represents a failure in any way.

Deputy Donegan did say, and Deputy Treacy also said, that the market development grants were a good thing. Speaking in the House on the need for a review of our support for exports, I can say that industry itself was quick to acknowledge that the Government had acted well in their immediate reaction to the British surcharge by giving these grants and that acknowledgment was clearly stated in Killarney by one of the spokesmen for Irish industry. It is easy to say that things are not up to our target but it is quite wrong to say that the Government did not react well and quickly to the situation.

Deputy Treacy asked if I could say what effect the British levy has had on our exports. It is very difficult to make a clear assessment of this but in the months immediately following the imposition of the surcharge, up to the middle of 1965, exports of goods from here to Britain subject to the surcharge showed a considerable reduction as compared with the corresponding period in 1964, but from July to October, 1965 they were only slightly lower than for the corresponding months in 1964. In November, 1965 they were considerably higher than in November, 1964 but the import charge was 15 per cent in the earlier part of the year and ten per cent in the later part.

Can the Minister not tell us the exact amounts or the exact figures?

It is not easy to assess it. We know how much we have paid out but sometimes it was at the rate of 40 per cent and sometimes at the rate of 50 per cent and recently there has been a more generous incentive increase.

Surely they are in separate compartments? Surely the Minister knows how much was paid in each?

It is not as simple as that. What does the Deputy want to find out?

The Minister knows how much was paid out and for what it was paid out.

You cannot make a direct assessment. It is the effect on total exports, not the amount paid. It looks easy but it is not really so.

That is fencing.

I am not fencing. I have the figures. You cannot make a direct assessment. If the Deputy knew what he wanted to find out, I could give the figures.

I know what I want to find out and the Minister knows what I want to find out. I wish the Parliamentary Secretary would stop mumbling into his beard.

It is not as simple as it looks. The figures available to me are available to the House. I gave them in reply to a Parliamentary Question. You cannot deduce one from the other, although it seems as if you can.

Deputies raised the question of the extra provision for salaries, wages and allowances. Having accepted the allowances throughout the Civil Service. I do not think Deputies meant that they should not be voted to the officers of the Department of Industry and Commerce as an exceptional measure. This is the implementation of a general measure which has already been discussed.

It was under the heading of industrial development that Deputies raised the question of grants. Deputy Donegan asked why as high a percentage grant is not given for the adaptation of established industries as is given in the case of new industries. I could refer him to an answer given to him in the Dáil before this, which pointed out that an established firm has the advantage of plant and machinery which has been depreciated and allowed for, workers who have been trained, and in some cases tariff protection for many years. In the case of new firms, grants of 50 per cent are the maximum which are made available for the purpose of manufacturing something which has not been produced here before, or to a sufficient extent, or alternatively, exclusively intended for export. I do not think any real case was made by Deputy Donegan in relation to these adaptation grants which he mentioned.

I should like to ask industry to look again to the availability of grants and not to miss the opportunity of benefiting by them in the time available. The provision of these adaptation grants is the only thing the Government can do to get industry ready for free trade. The Government can go no further if industry does not make use of the helps made available.

It is not as simple as that.

What is not as simple as that?

For small businesses and firms to avail of the grants the Minister says are so readily available. They have to provide capital, too, and it is not available from the banks because of the credit squeeze.

At the moment there is need for a total effort in relation to adaptation towards free trade. If the Deputy knows certain cases which need special help, I will be willing to consider their position and have them examined to see if they warrant any special treatment.

Question put and agreed to.
Vote reported and agreed to.
Votes 43, 28, 29, 30 and 31, already agreed to in Committee on Finance, reported and agreed to.
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