asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce whether he has seen the statement of the National Council of the Federation of Trade Associations to the effect that a serious situation has arisen in the Irish distributive trade owing to large scale invasion by foreign interests who are rapidly gaining a dominant position over retail and other outlets; whether his Department have held any discussion with the distributive interests on this matter; and, if not, whether he proposes to do so in view of the Federation's statement.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Irish Distributive Trade.
32.
Mr. O'Leary
I have seen the statement referred to by the Deputy and, as I stated at the annual luncheon of the organisation in question on 12th May, there is no evidence before me to suggest that the operations of foreign interests in the field of distribution are such as to cause concern or that Irish firms, efficiently managed, are unable to meet the competition.
This matter has been among the subjects discussed from time to time between representatives of distributive interests and officers of my Department.
Mr. O'Leary
I appreciate that a Minister of the day must make a statement that there is nothing disturbing in the situation but the position in the distributive trade is an extremely serious one.
The Deputy is not asking a question but making a statement.
Mr. O'Leary
I am afraid I must disagree with the Minister's assessment of the situation.
The Deputy should ask a question.
May I ask a question? Does the Minister suggest he has not received representations from RGDATA describing the impact of foreign combines on the existing businesses of retail grocery distributors in this country, and if he cannot call to mind the representations that have reached him, would he kindly refresh his memory in regard to them?
I did not say I did not have representations. I said I did not have evidence.
Mr. O'Leary
What would the Minister consider evidence?
Evidence is something proved.
If the Minister has received representations which have not carried conviction to his mind, would he consider informing RGDATA that their representations have not convinced him and will they kindly submit the evidence to him on which these representations are made? I was once of the Minister's mind in this regard, but Garfield Weston changed my mind.
I have already told the House that the Government are constantly keeping under review foreign investment in the distributive trade. It is not just that nothing is happening.
Mr. O'Leary
At present the Minister's colleague, the Minister for Local Government, is hearing the protests of the Phibsboro traders against the position arising from another supermarket chain. We cannot believe the Minister can find no evidence.
There is evidence of investment. Evidence that an efficient Irish firm cannot compete is another thing.
Mr. O'Leary
The Minister appreciates that most Irish firms are in small units and it is ridiculous to talk about them forming competition against these monopolies.
The Government are keeping this constantly under review.
When will the Minister act?
That is my decision.
The Irish distributive trade are trying to expand at the moment but they cannot get any bank facilities. The money is not available to compete with these cross-Channel firms who have no difficulty raising large sums. This money is not available to Irish traders. If the Minister does not know that, he should find out. The Minister is aware that if the retail distributive trade falls into the hands of overseas firms, manufacturers in this country can pack up because these English firms will buy all their own products in England and bypass the Irish people.
Does the Deputy say there is no Irish investment in these stores?
I did not say that. I said this trade is beginning to fall into the hands of overseas firms.
Question No. 33.
The biggest investor in this field is an Irish company.
The biggest single investor may be.
The ball is in the court of RGDATA. They will approach the Minister again.
It is natural that they would want to protect themselves against intense competition. They must prove that an efficiently managed Irish firm cannot compete.
I think they can and I think they will.
Good.
I have called No. 33 several times but nobody seems to have taken any notice.
Oh!
That is true.