asked the Minister for Health if he is aware that a claim for a 40 hour week was made on the 20th April, 1966, by trade unions representing psychiatric nurses; and if having regard to his recent statement that general trained nurses should not be expected or required to devote more than 42½ hours a week, or 85 hours a fortnight, to the exacting duties of their profession, he favours the introduction of a 40 hour week for psychiatric nurses.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Psychiatric Nurses.
50.
Mr. O'Malley
The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. I understand that the psychiatric nurses' claim has been discussed at a meeting of the Mental Hospitals Joint Industrial Council under the chairmanship of an officer of the Labour Court and that a further meeting of the council has been arranged.
Deputies will be aware that, in the course of a recent statement, I said that "the nature of nursing duties places nurses in a special category in the matter of working hours and that they are entitled to a reduction in the hours of duty which they have accepted so cheerfully down the years as a commonplace of their vocation." I propose, very shortly, to issue a recommendation to the employing bodies that duty schedules should be adjusted as soon as possible so that nurses, including psychiatric nurses, will not be required to work more than 42½ hours a week or 85 hours a fortnight.
Mr. O'Leary
Does the Minister see the implementation of this recommendation before the actual granting of the £1 per week increase or does he see it coming after this claim is met?
Mr. O'Malley
While I should like to be of assistance, since I appreciate the Deputy's interest, it would be very unwise, I think, for me as Minister for Health to make any comment that might anticipate the outcome of this particular claim, beyond stating that nurses in general, including psychiatric nurses, have got an improvement of a reduction in working hours.
Mr. O'Leary
The Minister's recommendation would be coming in any case, but it has nothing to do with the £1 increase application at the moment. That is not saying when the Minister's next announcement will come to local authorities. It is a separate decision.
Mr. O'Malley
As I said, while this matter is being considered by the Mental Hospitals Joint Industrial Council, it is more or less sub judice, and I think it would be both impertinent and wrong of me to add anything at this juncture.
Will the Minister assure the House that the statement with regard to a possible reduction to 42½ hours per week, or 85 hours a fortnight, will not prejudice the workers negotiating their claim for a 40-hour week for nursing personnel? Civil servants have less than 40 hours a week and so have many industrial workers and I would like to be assured that we have the Minister's interest in a 40-hour week, never mind a 42½-hour week.
Mr. O'Malley
My constant interest is to improve the lot of the workers.
(Interruption.)
Mr. O'Malley
I am also aware that some friends of mine, trade union officials, are working a 100-hour week —that is a fact—including Sundays and Saturdays.
(Interruptions.)
51.
asked the Minister for Health if he is aware of the general practice which has developed in different mental hospital areas of psychiatric nurses acting as escorts for the purpose of bringing patients to mental hospitals; and if he will indicate clearly what is the position of such nurses when the co-operation of the patient, and in some cases of the relatives, is not forthcoming and the use of force is necessary to remove the person concerned.
Mr. O'Malley
I am aware that in the exercise of their statutory powers under the Mental Treatment Acts, mental hospital authorities sometimes make available the services of their psychiatric nurses for the purpose of arranging for the removal of certain psychiatric patients to hospital.
Should it become necessary in a particular case for a nurse to exercise a degree of force in making the necessary arrangements, it should follow that, provided he has acted properly, he would be indemnified by the mental hospital authority concerned, if any legal proceedings should arise. If the Deputy is aware of any case where a difficulty of this kind has arisen, I suggest that he furnish details to me, so that the matter can be investigated.
Mr. O'Leary
Is the Minister satisfied with the position in which, in fact, there is a possibility of this kind of duty being given to psychiatric nurses? Surely the Minister appreciates that in today's conditions, there should be no possibility of a job like this being given to psychiatric nurses? Theirs is now a skilled occupation.
Mr. O'Malley
This opens up a very big field. In such cases nurses have themselves provided an escort as well.