Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 5 Jul 1966

Vol. 223 No. 12

Credit Union Bill, 1966: From the Seanad.

The Dáil went into Committee on Finance to consider amendments from the Seanad.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. S. Flanagan)

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 1:

Section 3:

A new subsection added to the section as follows:—

"(4) Subsection (3) of this section shall not apply to any society registered under the Industrial and Provident Societies Acts, 1893 to 1936, between the 24th day of January, 1962, and the 31st day of August, 1966, the objects of which have at all times been wholly or substantially those of a credit union."

I put down this amendment following representations made by some Senators to the effect that the community development movement might be adversely affected by the operation of the Bill. Accordingly, I have so amended the Bill as to allow the existing 12 units of the community development movement to be registered under this Bill in due course. A further five, which are in course of formation, can also be registered prior to 31st August next. We expect that will give sufficient time to enable these additional five units to be duly registered.

Mr. Donegan

I do not see any objection to that.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. S. Flanagan

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 2:

Section 4:

In subsection (2), line 24, "membership" deleted and "his membership and voting rights" substituted.

This, in my opinion, is really unnecessary because it seemed to me to be quite clear that the person who had lost the common bond, so long as he retained his membership, would automatically retain his voting rights. However, some of the members of the Seanad were uneasy about the matter and I agreed to accede to their request to insert a specific reference.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. S. Flanagan

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 3:

Section 22:

In subsection (2), line 24, ", or be paid otherwise than out of surplus funds which are available for that purpose and have been accumulated after meeting the requirements of section 23 of this Act in relation to reserve," added at the end.

The object of this is to ensure that in no case will dividends be paid out except from surplus funds. I should mention that a provision to this effect was in the Bill as originally drafted and got lost in the rush at some stage so we are now merely re-inserting this provision. It is unlikely that any board of directors would recommend any dividend where no surplus was available. We considered it desirable to take this precaution by having it spelled out in the Bill.

Mr. Donegan

How do you define "surplus"? Is it excess of income over expenditure? Is it your idea that the payment of a dividend should not deplete the funds of the credit union?

Mr. S. Flanagan

They would have to have a surplus. I think it is defined——

Mr. Sweetman

Is this the analogy, that a dividend can be paid only out of profits under the Companies Act?

Mr. Flanagan

Yes.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. S. Flanagan

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 4:

Section 35:

Before subsection (3) a new subsection inserted as follows:—

"(3) Where a regulation is proposed to be made under paragraphs (b), (g), (i) (except in so far as it relates to time limits), (j), (k) or (l) of subsection (1) of this section, a draft thereof shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas and the regulation shall not be made until a resolution approving of the draft has been passed by each such House."

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Amendment No. 5 is consequential and perhaps we could discuss Nos. 4 and 5 together.

Mr. S. Flanagan

Yes. We had quite a discussion in the Seanad and Senators Garret FitzGerald and O'Quigley put down an amendment to section 35 because they pointed out that it was undesirable that Ministers should be given power by regulation to change the law. As a lawyer, I expressed my complete agreement with the points they put forward and accordingly I agreed to an amendment which will ensure that the approval of the Houses of the Oireachtas will have to be obtained before any regulations made pursuant to the paragraphs mentioned can be put into effect. In fact, the amendment as it is now before the House is considerably broader than that which was put down by the two Senators and covers everything that could be regarded as necessary to protect the function of the Houses of the Oireachtas in regard to making regulations under this Bill.

Mr. Donegan

There does not seem to be anything wrong with it and we accept it.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. S. Flanagan

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 5:

In subsection (3), line 46, "(other than a regulation to which subsection (3) of this section applies)" inserted before "shall".

Question put and agreed to.

Mr. S. Flanagan

I move that the Committee agree with the Seanad in amendment No. 6:

Title:

In page 3, lines 12 and 14 "CERTAIN OTHER ENACTMENTS" deleted and "THE FRIENDLY SOCIETIES ACT, 1896 AND THE INSURANCE ACT, 1936" substituted.

Again, this was an amendment I agreed to accept because the Bill, in addition to providing for credit unions, also amends in one particular respect the Insurance Act of 1936. We had quite a discussion about the undesirability in general of amending apparently unrelated Acts, such as the Insurance Act, in this instance. I can only point out to the House that the desirability of making this amendment to the Insurance Act was obvious, and indeed the insurance companies for many years had been asking us to make this amendment, and as there is no likelihood of any comprehensive or other Insurance Act coming up in the foreseeable future, we accordingly took the precaution of making this amendment now so that the provision would be brought up to date.

However, arising from that, the Senators felt that the Long Title should contain a reference specifically to the Insurance Act, 1936, and I agreed in the circumstances that this seemed a reasonable course to adopt so that the practitioner reading the Long Title would immediately be made aware that in addition to providing for credit unions, the Insurance Act, 1936, was being amended in a specific way.

Question put and agreed to.

Amendments reported and agreed to.