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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Apr 1967

Vol. 227 No. 9

Committee on Finance. - Financial Resolution No. 4—General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.—(Minister for Finance).

The inescapable conclusion from all the facts available indicates that the economy of the country and our domestic affairs have been grossly mismanaged by the Government. With a few limited and isolated exceptions, which have largely occurred by accident, there has been a total failure on every front to meet the targets set and the plans laid down in the Second Programme adopted by Fianna Fáil to run the economy. The effects of this mismanagement were reflected last year in heavy additional taxation and in very heavy additional revenue secured to pay for the expenditure incurred by the general failure to plan effectively and to operate the plan within the limits laid down.

While these targets have failed to be matched by performance, there is in one respect a case where the target not only has been matched but exceeded, that is, the ever-increasing amount of money raised in taxation, the ever greater share paid both directly and indirectly by the taxpayer. With this single exception, indeed this melancholy exception, the rest of the targets have not merely not been reached but looking at the picture as a whole we are now 18 months to two years behind the schedule laid down, to such an extent that there has been comment on this aspect of the matter in one of the most recent reports of the NIEC. The NIEC referred to the fact that it would be necessary to revise the 1970 targets and that, in fact, they had had to be altered in each of the last three years. They went on to express concern at the failure to reach the targets as laid down, particularly in respect of employment. These figures referred to in the NIEC report in dealing with the relatively static position of employment in respect of industry and the fact that there has been a notable and continuous decline in rural employment do not fully portray or reflect the real weakness in the economy and the pattern of decline evident on so many fronts.

This Government have had the advantage, but apparently they are not capable of profiting by it, of having no shortage of advisers. They have available for the preparation of plans to meet the needs of the economy an ever-growing staff of civil servants, many of them highly skilled and competent. There are now over 25,000 permanent civil servants and over 8,000 temporary civil servants on whom the Minister for Finance and the Government as a whole can call to assist in the formulation of plans and to work in the implementing of these plans when adopted. The Government have available opinions from many bodies like the NIEC. They have the advantage of surveys conducted by the OECD and other international organisations and, possibly greatest of all, they have the inestimable advantage of a constructive Opposition. In the light of these advantages, the failure of the Government is all the more remarkable.

The failure cannot be transferred, as some Ministers have endeavoured to do, to other shoulders, nor can the blame for the failure be attributed to external factors or to particular sections of the community, such as the fact that certain categories of workers got wage or salary increases, the implication being that these wage and salary increases were received in some way or other by people who were not entitled to them. The inflationary effect on prices and the disturbance to the economy that has characterised the past two or three years were deliberately and positively set in train by specific action taken by the Government in the early part of 1964. That action was taken with the designed objective of winning by-elections, irrespective of the ultimate cost to the country or the community.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

When the Minister for Transport and Power goes around to functions and when he exhausts every known platitude in respect of the effect of inflation, the effect of wages and salaries outstripping production, when he exhausts every descriptive phrase he can apply, the responsibility rests on the shoulders of the Government of which he is a member and on nobody else. For the first time in the history of wage negotiations in this country, the Government deliberately, positively and expressly intervened in these wage discussions. The Irish Press heading at the time said the green light had been given for wage and salary adjustments. That green light was given and apart from the very limited effect of a certain small range of import prices, every aspect of the inflationary consequences that have followed have been directly and solely attributable to that decision. The results and the consequences of that have not been paid for by Fianna Fáil but have been paid for by the country.

Today in respect of employment which was described as the acid test of any policy by the previous Taoiseach, which was described in a series of policy statements as a plan to provide a limitless number of new jobs over a period—at one time the number capable of being provided was reckoned at 100,000, a round number; it was subsequently modified in the Second Programme to 83,000—what has been the experience? What in fact has been the result of that policy and the results of the programme that was designed, the acid test of which would be the number of new jobs created in Ireland? Today there are 14,000 fewer people employed in this country than five years ago and there are 50,000 fewer employed than when Fianna Fáil came into office ten years ago. That is the result. These are the hard facts of the policy.

Leaving aside the failure to provide employment there is, on the other front, a continuous drain from emigration over the period. Something between 300,000 and 400,000 people have emigrated. It is true that in recent months there has been some slight decline compared with the comparable period last year but does anyone believe that it is because there are more people in employment here? Does anyone believe that it is because there are more jobs available here? Is it not obvious that the reason is that credit is tight and employment opportunities are less readily available in Britain? The fact is that a great many of our people are returning home having failed to get work in Britain and they will now find they cannot get it here. The most recent figures show that there are 64,000 people unemployed but that does not give the true picture. We have often been criticised in the past for the experience and problems we had after the Suez Crisis but we told the full facts. We never camouflaged the figures. We did not write off by employment period orders thousands of people who were, in fact, unemployed but whose numbers were taken off the unemployment register in order to camouflage and mask the facts and the true picture relating to unemployment.

This serious situation was adverted to in the Department of Finance review in 1966. As one would expect from that Department, the reference is a somewhat modest one. It said that the downward trend in the numbers engaged in agriculture in recent years was expected to continue in 1967 and that employment outside agriculture should increase. Since, however, there was considerable excess capacity in the industrial and services sectors as a result of the heavy investment up to 1965 and the slow growth achieved in 1966, it was expected that the increases in output in these sectors in 1967 would be achieved without an increase in employment sufficiently large to compensate for the decline in the numbers engaged in agriculture.

That was a modest description of what is likely to happen. There was a more trenchant observation in the NIEC comment on the review of the Department for 1966 and 1967 in which, at paragraph 41 page 24, it said:

We are concerned at such relatively small increases in employment, which are far below those envisaged in the Second Programme.

They had just referred to the slow increase in industrial employment and in other areas in the domestic sectors. One of the greatest, if not the greatest, yardstick of employment is the building industry. Here the failure of the Government has been more remarkable than in any other sphere. There was a decline in 1966 in the output from building and construction of five per cent. That decline was marked by fewer houses being built, fewer local authority schemes being completed and fewer houses being built by private enterprise.

This aspect was also the subject of comment by the NIEC in its comments on the review by the Department of Finance. It is not sufficient for the Government to say, or for Ministers to answer glibly, as they do from time to time, that more money than ever is being provided for houses. Of course more money is being provided if you look at the Estimates and if you compare the number of pounds provided in one year with the amount provided a year or two before, or so many years previously. Last year alone, as a result of the wholesale tax and wage and salary adjustments, building costs were estimated to have risen by seven or eight per cent. The effect of two things, wholesale tax—and this does not apply to a wide range of commodities or materials used in the building industry—and wage and salary adjustments, was a rise of seven or eight per cent. I want to ask what has happened to the Building Council? Is it dead or alive and if it is alive, is it doing anything? It was originally a hand-picked council, picked more for the political persuasions of those on it than for the purpose of being a real council representative of the building industry.

Recently the Taoiseach and the Minister for Local Government referred to the shortage of building land, particularly in the Dublin area, and the fact that land suitable for building is in comparatively few hands. While that may be true, it is not the real cause of the hold-up in building. It is, I believe, only an attempt to divert attention from the underlying weakness in the Government's policy, their failure to plan and to implement the plans necessary to expand building and development. Proper planning should foresee demand and should plan for development. The great hold-up in the Dublin area, which is common knowledge to anyone with any contact with local authorities and the private building industry, is the inability of the present drainage system to cater for additional houses in most areas. It is estimated that it will be about five years before adequate drainage and sewerage facilities are available. This is the estimated time for the Dodder Valley scheme and the additional scheme necessary to drain the south county, in the Clonkeen-Killiney area. Can anything be done to expedite the completion of these schemes? There is no use criticising people who have acquired lands —some of them are not very remote from Fianna Fáil—because the real hold-up in building is the failure to provide drainage and other facilities. If necessary, the land could be acquired for use by the local authorities but the drainage and other facilities cannot be provided unless plans are made and schemes completed and put into operation quickly.

Over and above that, there is nothing in this Budget for housing. It is nonsense to say, as some Minister said a few minutes ago, that more money is being provided for housing, or something else, than last year or some other year. Housing costs have gone up and the subsidies now being paid to the local authorities bear no relation to present-day costs. The grants and loan facilities under the SDA scheme are static, and have been static for years, and are entirely unrelated to the cost of living, inflated, if you like, today. The fact is that people who want to get loans cannot get them; those who can get them have to pay seven per cent or eight per cent interest. How can we expect people who are starting life to deal with charges of that sort and repay loans of the magnitude involved in these costs and prices? There is nothing in this Budget to ease their position or simplify the difficulties facing them. The position in respect of prospective house purchasers is that the present grants and loan facilities under SDA procedure are entirely too low to enable a great many people who would avail of these facilities to avail of them.

In the Dublin County Council area and in the Dún Laoghaire area—and I can speak with some knowledge of these areas—no more than 100 houses will be completed this year by both local authorities. In the Dublin Corporation area, there are 350 applicants approved and certified as being in urgent need of houses and at least 500 applicants from the Dublin County Council area approved by the county council who have not the remotest prospect of being housed this year, next year or within the next four or five years.

If the position in regard to building and construction is bad, the year gone by was one of the worst ever experienced for agriculture and farmers. The gross value of output showed a fall of £5 million and the net output showed a decline of almost £4 million. There was a decline of approximately ten per cent in the area under tillage. While the total decline in output shows the picture as a whole, these figures have little meaning for the average farmer who naturally is more concerned with the actual prices received for the animals he sells and the produce he markets. Here is what happened last year, so far as agriculture is concerned. Store cattle prices declined by over 16 per cent, that is, the prices paid for store cattle between 1965 and 1966. Fat cattle sold at fairs in the same period dropped in price by eight per cent. Prices received by farmers for store and fat cattle showed a drop as between one year and the other of 16 per cent and eight per cent. The drop in respect of the Dublin market was slightly less in regard to fat cattle. Fat sheep declined by eight per cent, hen eggs by 9.2 per cent and potatoes by 12 per cent. There was one solitary increase in the prices received and that was in respect of bacon pigs sent to the factories. However, while rates increased steeply, overheads and other charges, such as electricity, also increased.

Up to the promised changes in the present Budget, what effort has been made to implement the undertakings given in the second Programme in respect of agriculture? Other Deputies will speak at greater length on this matter with regard to these undertakings but the only thing the Government have done is to keep farmers' organisations divided, to promote dissension and disunity and to refuse to give representation to agricultural interests in the NIEC. Recently we had the National Agricultural Council established and time will show how it will work. Some relief has been given to the really hardpressed sections, particularly to farmers affected by the substantial decline in prices, by the drop in farm incomes and by the economic problems created by the sharp decline in prices while rates and overhead costs have mounted up.

There is nothing in this Budget for the urban communities, with the limited exception of the increase in old age pensions and the promised free electric light and free travel for old people. One of the most persistent advocates of free travel for old age pensioners was a former Fine Gael Chairman of Dublin County Council, Councillor Palmer, who brought the matter forward repeatedly at council meetings but it was turned down then as impracticable by CIE. Why is it possible to devise a scheme for free travel now on the eve of the local elections when it was refused in the past when brought forward by people who had an interest in the matter?

The urban community, the small shopkeeper, the self-employed, the small trader or businessman and the small business operated by the proprietor, his wife and family, get nothing from this Budget. Their position has been grievously worsened by the increase in rates and overheads and by the substantial increase in the cost of living. There is no relief here for the small trader and the small shopkeeper. We had a reference by the Minister for Finance to the need for savings and investment, to the need to save more and invest more. What positive contribution does this Budget make to people who run their own businesses, people who are anxious to save and invest?

Two years ago, for the first time in this country, a scheme was brought in under which an insurance policy taken out to meet death duties was aggregated with the rest of the estate. That has caused and is still causing serious problems for small business people. There is no relief proposed in this Budget to deal with those problems, although the scheme has been adverted to time and again as a serious and retrogressive step. If a person has a salary of £3,000 a year and his death benefit is estimated at £15,000, the total value of the estate is taken at £12,000. Prior to the change in the law, the total duty on that estate would be £1,920; now it is £2,400. If the salary is lower and the death benefit is lower, naturally the duty will be lower but in one case where the salary was £2,000 a year and the death benefit £10,000, the rate of duty went up from £640 to £1,520. What is the use of advising people to save if the incentive to do so is being taken away by Government legislation and policy?

Leaving aside the position of pensioners who got some increases, what about the large section of non-State pensioners who are retired and living on pensions or on fixed incomes? What about these people who have been employed in insurance companies, retired bank officials and others employed by private concerns? In most of these, there is now some form of pension scheme in operation but a considerable number of people had to retire when it was not normal for such firms to establish pension schemes. It is more normal now for firms to make arrangements in advance and to pay contributions so that their employees may have a pension scheme at the time of retirement but there are a great many people who have retired because they are no longer capable of working, who have no pension, who are living on past savings and who will get no relief from the Budget.

They are not entitled to the old age pension and they will not qualify for any increase in pension under this Budget because they were not State employees. Even for retired State personnel, the increase given in this Budget is only 12 per cent while the increase in the cost of living is 16 per cent. A two-year period between May, 1964, and May, 1966, was taken and during that period the cost of living increased by 12 per cent. Since May, 1966, there has been a further increase of 3.9 per cent and that does not take into account the increase in the price of bread and other increased costs so that the practical position is that the cost of living has increased by not less than 16 per cent.

These small business people and traders find it increasingly difficult to meet the increasing rate burden and competition from larger concerns. The position has been adverted to in the NIEC report which expressed the view that the most serious aspect of this problem is the rise in prices. This aspect of the matter was commented on because of the effect it would have on the future expansion of industry and it was stated that a continuation of the recent serious trend in prices would be most disquieting in view of the possibility that prices and money incomes in the United Kingdom would not rise substantially in 1967. It went on to refer to the prospect facing industry in this country and to the danger of the trend of money incomes to rise faster than national production. This is the result of attempts by certain groups to get a greater share of the national output.

Earlier on I adverted to the fact that this attitude which was adopted by some groups is a natural consequence of the rise in prices and the declining value of salaries and wages in order to pay for the rise in the cost of living. The inflationary situation was aggravated and worsened by the decision of the then Government that the green light was showing and that there was no restriction. In fact, the amount granted exceeded that which would have been negotiated by the interested parties because of the intervention of the Government at that time— an intervention in a direct way for the first time by the Government in settling wage and salary adjustments.

This aspect of the problem of rising prices was also adverted to in the OECD report where it commented on the effect on prospects for the future. It also said that the problem of rising costs may, therefore, have to be tackled by further efforts to develop an incomes policy. In the course of our speeches, and laid down in our policy Towards a Just Society, we have consistently advocated the need for an incomes policy. Some time ago there was a debate in this House in which the report of the NIEC on an incomes policy was generally approved. Since then, can anyone point to any single action, or any single instance in which the Government have taken action, to implement that policy, or done anything about it? In fact, it is quite obvious that so far as the NIEC report on incomes is concerned, and so far as the implementing of an incomes policy is concerned, nothing whatsoever has been done.

It may be that the previous Taoiseach influenced opinion to this extent against it. He said so in the course of a speech in Mullingar prior to the last general election, and he was a reluctant convert when he eventually assented to the motion passed here in January of last year. Nothing positive in relation to an incomes policy has been done by any Government decision, or action taken by any Government Minister. Now, when the Budget comes around again, it is suggested that the Minister should include a few paragraphs on an incomes policy to show that it has not been forgotten, and to give the impression that something is being done about it. Nothing whatsoever is being done about it. The NIEC and the OECD reports pointed to the gravity of the situation and the urgent need to take action. An incomes policy cannot be implemented without taking account of the problems of the workers in industry, not merely the problems of wage and salary adjustments but the problems of incomes of all categories. Over and above that there is a problem to which, with the exception of promised legislation, there has been no reference whatever in the Budget, and no proposal, financial or otherwise, to deal with it, that is, the problem of redundancy, the problem of unemployment, the danger of unfair competition. It is pertinent to inquire again what has been done by the State to deal with these problems. This business of passing over responsibility to the trade unions and employers is the easy method. It is passing the buck from the Government and then blaming them for failing to reach agreement, and nothing being done about it by the Government.

This problem is so serious that a specific reference was made to it in the NIEC report. This, of course, is of vital concern to every industry in the country. Irrespective of what may become ultimately of our application for membership of the EEC, with that drop in protection, with keener competition in British and other markets, the problem of redundancy and unfair competition is so acute that it was referred specifically in two paragraphs in the recent NIEC report which state:

The small size of the Irish market renders Irish industry particularly vulnerable to dumping from highly industrialised countries in freer trading conditions and to the unloading of surplus stocks of goods which are out of fashion, of bankruptcy stocks, etc. The problem will become progressively more acute as protection is dismantled and Irish industry is in the process of adapting itself to conditions of greater competition in home and export markets. Unless preventive measures can be found the repercussions in this critical period might well negative the adaptation measures taken by Irish industry. The Irish market is so small that the output of a relatively short production run by a large firm would be sufficient to saturate it, with a consequent disruption of production and employment here.

The second and probably the most important comment is:

On this matter considerable vigilance and speedy action by the Government would seem the only way of mitigating the severity of the problem.

I know from discussions that a great many industrialists are gravely perturbed at the diffident manner in which anti-dumping legislation is being proceeded with, and at the delay in implementing what they believe is essential to mitigate or prevent hardship, loss of employment and unfair competition. I also know that lowpriced imports from countries such as Japan, and places of origin such as Hong Kong, have a very serious effect on certain industries, and this effect can be well-nigh catastrophic. It is vital that the delay and procrastination which have characterised the activities of the Government should cease. Legislation should be enacted which will enable action to be taken before, not after the problems created by dumping have been dealt with.

This Budget is obviously designed for the purpose of winning the local elections. Over the past two or three years, we had a succession of easy Budgets before elections, and increased taxation the minute the elections were over.

Hear, hear.

This started with the green light in respect of wages in 1964. It was followed in 1965 for the general election, and last year we were not told the full story until the Presidential election was over. I want to warn those who may be deceived by the proposals in this Budget that the carrots are postponed to take effect from August or later, but that the cost will have to be met immediately the local elections are over. Additional steps will be taken to raise more money. We will have increased Post Office charges, or higher bus or train fares, higher ESB charges, and all the paraphernalia of the State which is not specifically included in the Budget but which must be paid for by the taxpayer, by every individual, by every user and traveller. These are the increases which must come later, because it is quite obvious from the financial framework of the Budget that the Minister is budgeting for a deficit— not that that in itself might be economically wrong in present circumstances.

Without recent experience of Fianna Fáil activities in this sphere, it is obvious that we must regard this Budget with extreme caution and a great deal of reserve. The benefits proposed in it will take effect at a later stage during the year, but the full financial consequences of them will not arise during this financial year. It will be left to next year's Budget or to a supplementary Budget to pay for them. The phrase used, the economic jargon which is brought into this Budget and other statements, is that a cautious reflation of the economy would be justified this year. The real reason for the reflation this year is the impending local elections. The extra money that will be needed will have to be provided at a later stage.

However, some benefits are being given in this Budget for which Fine Gael policy can claim full responsibility. There are some instalments of the "Just Society", even of a limited character, but some of them have not fully been explained. In the "Just Society", we recommended that managerial and technical skills should be encouraged, that people with them should be assisted by tax relief. We said in paragraph 7, page 14, that the present tax system bears exceptionally heavily on certain levels of earned income which are more heavily taxed here than in Great Britain and that this tends to discourage the return from abroad of Irish nationals with managerial experience. We proposed a reform of the surtax code to moderate the incidence of taxation on earned income at that level. We said that that should encourage the inflow of muchneeded technological skills. We went on to say that the cost to the Exchequer would be small. That was two years ago. It is now included in the Budget.

We have repeatedly spoken about medical expenses. Deputy P. Byrne and other Deputies deserve not merely thanks but credit and recognition for their persistent reference to the problem created there for a great many people. We are now getting a proposed amendment in the Finance Bill to allow medical expenses. We have advocated it consistently but it is in very limited circumstances admittedly, as Deputy Sweetman points out.

Similarly, I think it well to comment on the relief being given in respect of mines. The introduction of concessions in respect of mining in this country was done by Deputy Sweetman when he was Minister for Finance. As a result, the only worthwhile expansion in respect of employment and output in the past year was in the sphere of mining. Practically the only bright spot in the whole range of statistics covered by the returns was mining and that was made possible because of incentives, the tax remissions, reliefs and grants.

I have repeatedly adverted here to the increase in industrial exports. Professor Carter, who is Jevans Professor of Political Economy in Queen's University, stated that the biggest factor in the growth of our exports in recent years were the tax remissions granted in 1956.

We have advocated repeatedly the need for a comprehensive health service based on insurance. So far, the Government have refused to do that. We have said that in this country health and social welfare services can never be on a proper footing until a comprehensive scheme, financed on an insurance basis, is introduced and put into operation. This is the only way to provide a service which will give adequate cover to those entitled to it rather than a health and social welfare service that includes some and excludes others in a haphazard and inequitable manner. It would also alleviate the rate burden.

Some Deputies may not have noticed it but there was a reference here to the fact that certain social welfare recipients will get increases and that these will be operative, in respect of some from August, and in respect of insured persons, from January next. Then there was a reference to the fact that it is proposed also to make a modest adjustment in the proportion of the Exchequer contribution to the insurance service by putting the cost of the extension of unemployment benefit and slightly more than two-thirds of the cost of rate increases on the insurance contribution. Surely it should have been possible to say how much that will mean in the insurance stamp? What increase will that mean? We have been told that we now have a Budget presented in a particular manner, that a great deal of tidying up was done, that all the facts are being disclosed. I want to know what increase it will mean in respect of the insurance contribution. I think employers and workers are entitled to know. It is the proper way to finance it. It should be done openly and explicitly and the full details should be given. It would enable a reduction, as we said, to be made in respect of rates if health and social welfare schemes were introduced on a comprehensive national basis, based on insurance. That is the sensible, the sane and the best way to do it in respect of those benefiting by it and it is desirable from a national point of view as economically and socially sound.

In addition to these particular matters that have been the subject of specific comment, a number of other references were made by the Minister for Finance. I think it is no harm that some of the commentators, who have been so free in their advice and so glib in their references to politicians, when they are commenting on this, should reflect that an Opposition has not available 25,000 permanent civil servants and 8,000 temporary civil servants to do its work.

An Taca.

We have no professional assistants paid at State expense to deal with speeches and to deal with the research necessary but, despite that, it was Fine Gael who first recommended an incomes policy: that is now universally accepted and adopted. It was Fine Gael who recommended and adopted relief in respect of technical skill. It was Fine Gael who recommended and adopted relief in respect of mining which has since been accepted. It was Fine Gael who recommended, adopted and put before the people proposals for a comprehensive education service that have since been adopted and I believe will further be extended this week when it is likely that an announcement will come from the Minister for Education in respect of progress to be made in education in Dublin between the two universities. All of these are important aspects. So far as thinking, planning and work are concerned, the only time Fianna Fáil Ministers or the members of the Fianna Fáil Party think of work is when they think their jobs are in danger. That is the only time initiative or action is taken. Otherwise, all the thinking, planning and work are done by highly skilled and competent staff paid at public expense to administer, as they do administer, the Civil Service of this State.

It is well to reflect that, ten years ago, the Minister's predecessor came in here with a great flourish of trumpets and said there was to be an examination into the total cost of the Civil Service and the administrative machinery. There were leading articles in every paper saying what an enlightened and welcome decision that was. We have not heard a word about it since. The only thing is that there are more civil servants now than there ever were. We have the usual reference here. Somebody said how much better something was about the administration and there was a reference to some committee that is sitting—another one —to examine the administrative procedure of the Civil Service. We have the assistance of an expert from Sweden or somewhere in regard to it.

That is the usual jargon put into the speech of any Minister for Finance who feels he is under pressure because of the growth in the number of civil servants. We all know a great deal of the Civil Service procedure in this country is Victorian in its concept. It is the same as originally operated when Gladstone and Disraeli introduced their Budgets in the British House of Commons. It is not the fault of the civil servants; it is due to the fact that no Government sufficiently faced up to it. All we got from Fianna Fáil was a promise in 1957 and now another promise in 1967. Nothing has happened in the meantime.

The really best part of the Minister's speech was kept for towards the end. I have no doubt this was the part the commentator on the Irish Press was referring to when he said that the Minister's speech has the hallmark of class, but he did not say what class. This was the part dealing with culture. Somebody said: “You had better say something about culture.” It sounds well even if you do not mean to do anything about it. A reference to culture is always impressive. I have always had the impression that culture and Fianna Fáil, if not mutually exclusive——

Did you say "culture" or "culchies"?

——is certainly a forced marriage. It sounds well. You get a certain amount of plaudits for it.

Before I conclude, I want to say there can be no real progress, no real move forward, if the present Government remain in office. They have failed to implement their own programme. They obviously do not understand ours and have picked only bits out of it. In the last page of the recent NIEC Report on Full Employment, there is this comment. Mark you, there is an impressive list of names at the bottom of this report.

Hear, hear: that is about all there is in it.

There is this comment:

In the last report, then, the questions raised in this report concern the will and conscience of the whole community. To harden the will and arouse the conscience of the community will require dynamic leadership

—I was going to say the Minister for Transport and Power must have got that put in—

and sustained backing from political and religious leaders, from trade unions, from employers' associations, and from all the other organisations and institutions which influence and form public opinion and public attitudes.

Including Taca.

It goes on:

Without such leadership, particularly in the political field, the policies which will raise living standards and expand employment will not be chosen and implemented.

The first step, in order to do that, is to rid this country of the thraldom of mediocrity associated with Fianna Fáil.

During his short comment on the Budget yesterday, Deputy Corish posed the question: what is sacrosanct about budgeting for a year? Why should we have to bend over backwards in order to ensure a book-keeping operation was carried out in an attempt to balance at the end of each year? While the comment was a fair one, Fianna Fáil had already thought of it. Last year they discovered a year did not count at all. Twice within six months, they introduced Budgets here in circumstances which are being duplicated this year. Last year there was a Presidential election. In order to give the impression that Fianna Fáil were the "goodies", they decided they would have a Budget which, while a bit severe, many people felt could have been more severe. But when the Presidential election was over, they came along with the second Budget and really laid it on.

And then followed the by-elections.

We will talk about them at some other time. If the Taoiseach is as wise as I believe he is, he will not associate himself with some of the things that happened during those by-elections. He has the reputation of being a decent fellow. If he connects himself with some of the things that happened during those by-elections, he could lose that reputation very quickly.

You are trying to damn me with decency.

You have already been damned. At present we have 64,000 unemployed. I must compliment the Minister for Finance on the slick way he prepared and put across his Budget. Last night on television he was slick also; there is no doubt about it. People depending only on what they saw and heard on television might be inclined to believe the Budget was a good one. I thought the Minister might include in the Budget some reference to the fact we have an endemic unemployment situation, that it was something the Government would tackle and that the full employment we hear so much about between Budgets was something we might look forward to even in five or six years' time. But there was not one reference to it. The Minister went out of his way to ensure there would be no question of anybody asking: "Why did you not do what you said you were going to do about improving the employment situation?"

We appear to be about 18 months behind schedule in regard to most of the things proposed in the Second Programme. So far as unemployment is concerned, we are in a serious position. The Minister will remember the estimate that 83,000 jobs would be required by 1970. The only place in which we have gone ahead is in regard to taxation. Our taxation is now seven per cent higher than was forecast for 1970. If we keep that up, we will be reaching the heights by 1970.

Comment has been made on the fact that we have 25,000 permanent and 8,000 temporary civil servants. It certainly appears to be an extraordinary number of people to organise and operate this small country. In addition, we have numerous committees and commissions and, as Deputy MacEntee said, advisory bodies to the Government. These organisations have been bringing in reports, or not bringing in reports. Somebody reminded me the other day that the first Commission he could remember was one on fresh vegetables set up in 1932. It has not brought in its report. In 1934, the Fianna Fáil Government decided they were going to do something about the number of civil servants in the country and established a commission on the Civil Service. But they succeeded in having the report of that Commission forgotten in a few years' time. They also succeeded in taking the minds of the people off other matters at the time, as well as giving the impression they intended to do something about the number of civil servants. I am interested to know they are now about to set up a Commission on the Civil Service again. I am sure, if they are still there, they are likely to forget about the report when it eventually comes in.

There is no question of "about to": they are working at the moment.

If they are, the Taoiseach should tell his Ministers to steer clear of them until the report comes in. In 1956-57, Deputy Corish set up a Commission to deal with workmen's compensation. Within two and a half years that Commission brought in a report. The then Tánaiste, Deputy MacEntee, put two extra members from the insurance organisations on that Commission. It took them four more years to reach a conclusion and they brought in a conclusion which was contrary to the one being introduced in the first place. The Government accepted the minority report which was the one being brought in before Deputy MacEntee's two geniuses arrived on the scene, and that is about to be put into operation. Therefore perhaps the Taoiseach might stay away from Commissions and, if they are going to do anything, keep them away from Government intervention because it can do no good and is likely to do a lot of harm.

We have heard a great deal about the strike position and that trade unionists have caused much trouble through strikes. Let me repeat what I said on a number of occasions previously: the strikes caused in this country are, in the main, caused by the unreasonable attitude of the employers. The Minister for Labour today added his voice to them when he challenged the trade union people on the Labour benches as to why they had not made provision for redundancy payments before the Government introduced their redundancy scheme. The reason they did not do it was that if they had attempted to do it, further strikes would take place. Having got the green light, they will now feel that if they have got to force redundancy payments for the people who are losing their employment because of Government action, then those strikes unfortunately will have to take place.

One thing which nobody seems to have ever tried to work out when they are talking of the loss of man hours due to strikes is the loss of man hours due to unemployment, the big numbers of people who are not producing because they are not getting jobs in which to work. Have the Government every thought that they have some responsibility to try to find employment for these people?

We again had a comment on wages and the necessity to keep incomes at certain levels. When I hear this going on, it reminds me of a statement made a few years ago, that when a rich man gets an increase in his income, it is prosperity but when a poor man gets an increase it is inflation. That seems to be the attitude the Government are adopting to this matter. I was rather interested to hear the Taoiseach today and the Minister yesterday talking about an incomes policy. If we are to have an incomes policy, then let us include all incomes, not simply wages and salaries, which seems to be the general idea of a number of people and particularly of Government Ministers. There is the Minister for Transport and Power, who seems to be expert at saying the wrong thing in the right place, going around the country making comments about the necessity to keep down incomes, and he always means wages and salaries. Some of the lectures he has been giving on tying down wages and salaries are doing both himself and the Government more harm than good. If it stopped at that, I would not mind, but it is also doing the economy of the country a considerable amount of harm. He ought to be persuaded by somebody who knows a little more about it than he does that it would be as well for him to reserve his lectures for the privacy of his bedroom where nobody will hear him and where he is not likely to do any harm.

Reference was made here to the increase in mining and to the tax remission on mining being extended. Let me say, as the person who claims to have a responsibility for bringing into this country originally the people who are now successfully carrying out mining here, even if they do settle down in Deputy Carty's constituency eventually, that this is the best thing that could have happened and that the future for mining seems to be very bright. We talk about the balance of payments and about the necessity to have a balance from year to year. When there is a deficit, the Minister always seems to get a bit panicky. I understand from a reliable authority that the income from ore being exported over the next three or four years will be so great that it does not matter what happens on other fronts, the balance of payments is bound to be on the right side. Perhaps this might bring some little measure of comfort to the Minister.

The whole question of agriculture has been in a bit of a mess since the Minister was Minister for Agriculture. It is rather a pity that something which started as a skirmish seems to have now developed into a full-scale war. I am quite sure the Minister now agrees it was rather a pity that when the row started, he did not spend that 15 minutes which so many of us advised him he should have spent with the NFA.

If he had, he would have saved himself and the country an awful lot of annoyance and embarrassment.

Nonsense.

The Minister says "never", and I do not know whether he means that or not, but I am quite sure that if he reflects, he will realise this question of trying always to be the winner does not work out, and in this case it has worked out very badly for the Minister and for his Party. While most of us would not worry very much if the Minister's Party run into trouble, it is a worry that we have decent people upon whom this country depends, the agricultural community, being put into the straits into which they have been put by the pigheadedness of certain people. I believe myself the Minister, on reflection, will agree——

He would not agree and would never agree. Nobody will ever browbeat me into anything.

The browbeating did not start with the NFA.

It did start with the NFA.

The Minister started it and he thought he would get away with it. He thought he would make them break discipline and create a riot.

Your activities shed no credit on you either.

The Minister thought he would get away with it and he was wrong.

We all know what you were up to.

The day on which the deputation was refused an audience by the Minister for Finance was the day on which there was an orderly parade of farmers. They were insulted by the Minister for Finance when he was Minister for Agriculture, and that was the cause of all the trouble.

Poppycock.

That is the truth.

They wanted to browbeat the Government into doing what they wanted, and no Fianna Fáil Government could bow to such tactics.

The Minister is not addressing a Fianna Fáil cumann. He is addressing the Dáil.

Nor is he addressing Taca.

This could have been settled easily.

It could not have been settled easily.

Is the Chair not going to keep the Minister in order?

There are interruptions from both sides.

Deputy Sweetman has nothing to do with this.

I have everything to do with it.

The Deputy has done enough meddling.

If the Minister and Deputy Sweetman would allow me to continue my speech——

I will not allow the Deputy to get away with untruths and inferences which are not correct.

I am not uttering untruths. The Minister got over an hour yesterday to release his speech. It is not even his own. This is my speech. The Minister's speech was prepared for him by numerous civil servants, and he should have the courtesy to listen when a Deputy is talking in this House.

That is a cheap sneer and a jibe. That speech is my speech.

Deputy Tully should realise that it is the Minister's speech.

I realise that the Minister was given over an hour yesterday to read out that speech. I am attempting to make a speech without reading it and I am entitled to make it in my own way as long as the Chair keeps me in order.

The Deputy is not entitled to make attributions to me which are not true.

I am not going to be shouted down by the Minister for Finance. He has already been on television and he was the slick fellow who knew all the answers. He should be able to take it now when he is getting it, the same as he handed it out himself.

The Deputy said that on reflection, I would think something——

On a point of order, if the Chair is not going to check the Minister for Finance, I shall not remain seated here. We have been listening for the past five or ten minutes to a barrage of interruptions by the Minister during Deputy Tully's speech. Deputy Tully is making an orderly speech and, if these interruptions are not a grave breach of order, I do not know what is.

On a point of order, the Deputy is attributing certain things to me. He is stating that, on reflection, I must think certain things. I am rebutting that.

The Minister can do that at the end of the debate.

Deputies on both sides of the House should cease interrupting.

Put down another motion censuring the Chair.

Will the Chair stop the Minister interrupting?

I will try to stop every Deputy interrupting.

I thought Deputy Ryan was going to leave.

Stand not upon the order of your going but go at once.

That is the progeny of a false marriage with culture by Fianna Fáil.

I am quoting the Bible.

If anyone makes any false statement about me, I will deny it.

Are there, Sir, two sets of regulations here? Every Deputy must keep in order and, if there is something he wishes to controvert, he will get an opportunity to reply later, but the Minister for Finance will continue attempting to reply throughout the debate, sitting down in the Front Bench, while the Deputy is speaking.

All Deputies must keep in order.

I shall be very greateful if the Minister for Finance will listen to that and carry it out. I am stating that, as far as I am concerned, I believe that the Minister for Finance can, on reflection, realise that a bad mistake was made by him as Minister for Agriculture the day the NFA paraded publicly and decently through Dublin city. Had he received them on that day, we should not have had all the trouble since.

He received them on several occasions before that.

Deputy Carty can make his own speech later on.

He can make it later, if the Party allow him, but, whether he does or not, I think I should be allowed to continue without interruption.

The position about the cattle industry is, and we have no doubt about it, that many people were badly misled by the statement made after the Free Trade Agreement had been signed. People were under the impression that they were going to receive substantial increases in the prices of their livestock and they held on in the belief that the prices, even when they started to fall, would not continue falling. The Minister for Finance, the Minister for Agriculture and the Taoiseach at the time told them that prices would not fall, that they would go up.

They are going up.

They were even told by the Minister for Finance that, if they held on, prices would improve.

They are improving.

If some of them had held on to their stock, they would be able to draw their old age pensions while they were waiting for an improvement in prices, and Deputy Cunningham knows that as well as I do. The whole thing was mishandled. Things started to go wrong. It was wrong, I think, to try to make out that because certain sections were looking for something to which they felt they were entitled, they were criminals. That is what has led us into the position in which we are now. The fact that the agricultural community were right is proved by this Budget because the Budget has proved that some easement could have been given but was not given. Belatedly now the Minister is attempting to improve the situation.

I do not know whether other Deputies from rural areas appreciate the situation with regard to the derating of agricultural land under £20 PLV. If there is a gimmick that can be shouted about, and nobody looks too deeply into it, that gimmick is used on every occasion. Ask any sensible rural Deputy: does he believe the farmers will throw their hats in the air because the first £20 of their agricultural land is to be derated? How much rates are most farmers paying on the first £20 PLV? Are we to assume now that a few coppers per week will compensate the Irish farmer? The small farmer is looking for a decent livelihood and complaining about a low income. Is he supposed to cheer because he will get a few coppers a week under this?

This is a gesture by the Minister and, so long as it is accepted as a gesture and not as the saving of the Irish farmer, well and good. The amount will be in the region of £6,000 to £6,500 per county. If one divides that by the number of farmers with £20 valuation, one will find they will get very little for their trouble. This is the sort of thing which tends to make people mad when they listen to the poppycock about the wonderful things that are being done and the wonderful things the Budget will do.

I come now to income tax. The Minister made a very bad mistake in relation to income tax. I know he wanted to balance his Budget. I do not know if he appreciates the fact that he is attempting to balance his Budget at the expense of the working class people. In 1956, when agricultural workers' wages, road workers' wages and general labourers' wages were about £5 to £6 per week, the personal allowance allowed for roughly £6 per week. In other words, they could earn on top of what they were getting as a basic wage another £1 without having to pay income tax. Their basic wage has now gone up to £9, £10, £11 and £12 a week but the personal allowance remains at £6 odd —£6 5s to £6 15s per week. Does the Minister not consider that most unfair?

He has given certain allowances to which I shall refer in greater detail later, but here are people living below subsistence level who have got no relief, good, bad or indifferent. Quite a considerable number are employed on building schemes throughout the country and on arterial drainage schemes. Some live within striking distance of their work; others do not. Some have to travel 30 and 40 miles each way every day to work. Usually a man buys an old car which he taxes and insures. He pays for the petrol, running repairs, tyres, out of his own pocket. Does he get any income tax relief? He does not. If he were lucky enough to be a person who travelled from his home to one particular job, on to an office, to another job, and back home, that would be all right; he could claim a rebate. Because he is labourer or a craftsman, he can claim no rebate. The Minister made a mistake in not including these two categories for consideration in his Budget.

With regard to the allowance for children and dependent relatives, it is not generally appreciated, I think, that when we talk about £120 up to £135 we are, in fact, counting the amount at whatever the rate of income tax is: 5/3d per £ certainly will not keep anybody very long. It most certainly will not buy food or clothing for 12 months. It will hardly pay their laundry. The Minister must have looked at it from a most peculiar angle when he decided this was the way to deal with it.

We have a reference to free travel and free electric light for old age and blind pensioners. Could the Minister say whether the free travel applies all over the country or simply to a limited area, cities and towns?

All over the country.

Thank you. I suppose it will be simply on production of a pension book. However, I shall not ask the Minister to answer that now because I suppose these things will have to be fixed up. The cost of this cannot be very great because since the Government pay a subsidy to CIE already, this will simply be included in the subsidy. The Minister can deal with that when he is replying if he thinks it worth it. I would be under the impression that it is simply calling it another name, that this is the same subsidy.

With regard to electric light, it says 11/- subsidy plus 100 units every two months applying only to old age pensioners living alone. Will we have a repetition of what happened with the 5/- a week granted to certain people when we had inspectors going around examining houses to find out who lived in them or would the old age pensioner have a relative hidden away who would disqualify him from getting this small sum paid? I should like to know if the Minister has that in mind because if he has, it will spoil the whole effect.

With regard to the increase of 5/- in social assistance and 5/- for a dependent relative with effect from 1st August, I do not think it seems to be generally known by the people who do up this Budget that the last increase given to these people was two years ago: 5/- in two years. Do not tell me what the inter-Party Government gave.

A halfcrown in six years.

You know it already.

He knows it too well.

That is no butter on the bread of the old age pensioner. Whether we gave half-a-crown in six years or £1 a year, it still does not make this 5/- after a two year period one bit bigger or one bit sweeter. I think the Government should remember that. If over a period of two years increases of £1 per week have been granted followed by a further £1 per week to people earning under £1,200 per year, how it is considered that human beings should have to eat, buy clothing and all the other necessaries of life, how they should be able to exist on a very small pittance without an addition of £2 but with an addition of one 5/- over the same period, I do not understand. This is an outmoded system of social welfare and it needs a bit of changing. I suppose it is too much to expect that it will be changed under the present regime.

Again, the 5/- for the benefit people goes back to 1st January. When I inquired on previous occasions about this, I was told: "We cannot do anything about it; you see, under the system that is worked here, in order to make the necessary arrangements, it will have to be 1st January before we could put it into operation". It has become an accepted thing. However, the increase in the insurance stamps is not going back to 1st January. It is being brought forward to 1st August. Following the threat made by Deputy Boland while he was Minister for Social Welfare, there is an ominous note in the statement made by the Minister for Finance when he refers to how this is to be financed. Am I to take it from the statements made that the insurance stamp will be required to carry the entire, or almost the entire cost of this increase? If that is so, it is a new departure in social welfare and something which I would feel should never be introduced.

I compliment the Minister on changing the system under which certain periods were known as employment periods. I could never understand why a man with a valuation of £4 or over in the country who was on unemployment assistance, or the dole, as we call it, was expected to be able to live for a considerable period of the year on that small portion of land. What was he supposed to do? Was he supposed to grow a certain type af grass which would remain green all the year round and which he could go out and eat during the period of the year when he was getting no income? Worse still, was the case of the unfortunate rural labourer, who, during the second employment period, was deemed to be in employment, even though he was not able to get enough to eat, had no job and was kept alive by a few shillings which he got through the local home assistance officer until he was lucky enough to go back on the dole again.

The increase in the period during which people draw unemployment benefit is to be welcomed. I think this can be extended, however. I am thinking of a man who has spent 35 or 40 years in employment and who, through no fault of his own, loses his job. It is hard luck to be told that his stamps have run out. Can I take it this will be introduced fairly quickly and that the Minister will consider a further extension of it because even 12 months travels by quickly? If a man has been in constant employment for 40 years and has not drawn one penny from the insurance fund, it is difficult for anybody, whether a supporter of the Government or in Opposition to the Government, to try to explain to those people that the regulations laid down say that this is the most they can get and nothing further can be done for them.

When introducing his Budget, the Minister might have considered the system whereby those who were ill and had for one reason or another less than 156 stamps and therefore were not entitled to draw sickness benefit for more than 12 months might be covered by some type of disability assistance. I had the experience a few months ago of going to see a man in hospital who had a small farm and did not start stamping cards until fairly late in life. He had less than the 156 weeks employment and less than the requisite number of stamps. He drew unemployment benefit for 12 months. He had a wife and three children and they were left literally destitute. Somebody suggested to him that as he had sold the farm many years before, he should still have some money left and asked him what he did with it. He said: "I ate it". That was true. If he did not eat it, he ate the proceeds of it. He died, and I believe that his early death was partly due to a system which left him and his family absolutely destitute. Eventually the local authority came to the rescue and got him a few shillings which kept the family alive, but he had gone too far and he is now dead. I still feel that some effort should have been made by the Department and by the Minister to ensure that social welfare carried a disability assistance which would give at least some payment to unfortunate people in similar circumstances.

With regard to the small increase in State pensions, the 12 per cent will be welcome. Where increases in salaries are given and then the same percentage increase is given to people on pension, the amount is often very small when it comes to be checked and when it comes to be spent. Some people who have given many years of their lives to the Department in which they work find that because they retire and, as one man said to me recently because they appear to live too long, the pension at which they retire is small and those who retire after them get fairly substantial pensions, and when percentage increases are granted, they get shillings while some of their colleagues who retired after them get increases of £1 or over. I often feel that if the workers of today would remember that they are the pensioners of tomorrow and try to have provision made for better pensions in the years to come, this sort of thing might not happen. However, 12 per cent increase, while it is welcomed, is still very small. I mentioned yesterday the case of somebody who retired on pension after 32 years in the Army and received a pension of 14/a week. If he were alive—and fortunately for himself he is not; he has gone to a better place—he would get 12 per cent of that 14/-. He could do a lot with it. There should be some attempt made to bring pensions up to a decent basic before any percentage adjustments are made.

Yesterday when I mentioned the matter the Minister seemed to be quite happy about the whole question of what would happen because cigarettes are not all made the same size. He felt that the situation was covered and that there was no danger that anybody would make a substantial amount of money as a result of the twopence increase. I am subject to correction but I believe that this will result in a very substantial sum being collected by the tobacco manufacturers, despite all their moaning over the past 24 hours, and that this money will find its way into their coffers. It is suggested that they will spend it in a certain way, that they will put it into a fund and that it will be used to improve the cigarettes and also to improve plant. I do not think that that will be so. Perhaps I am misjudging them; perhaps I do not know them as well as the Minister does; but it happened before and it is going to happen again.

I am very interested in the reference to the financing of housing in the coming year. There is, in fact, a reduction of £500,000 in the amount being made available for grants for private houses and I understand that the excuse for reducing the amount to this extent is that the sum allocated last year was not spent. Everybody in the country, except the Minister for Finance, must know why the £500,000 was not spent last year. There were two very good reasons. One reason was that there was a very severe credit squeeze and money which would be required for the building of houses before that sum could be claimed from the Department could not be got. For a considerable period during the year, there was absolutely no hope at all of anybody being able to get even a shilling from the banks or the building societies. To use that as an excuse for cutting down on the amount for grants for very badly needed houses is just all cod. I hope the Minister will have second thoughts about this later on in the year. I am quite sure that unless the credit squeeze operates again, the amount allocated will have been spent long before the financial year is out.

The second thing about the amount of money being made available for local authority houses, as pointed out earlier, is that the cost of erecting these houses has risen by anything up to eight per cent over the past couple of years. To allocate the same amount now as was allocated two years ago is not meeting the situation. Perhaps it is because the standard of houses has improved, because people want houses which would not have satisfied them a few years ago. Whatever the reason, the demand all over the country is growing and the amount required to provide houses for local authorities is very much greater than it was a few years ago. Despite that, the Minister seems to think he is making adequate provision. If I tell him that the amount given to my local authority for housing last year was £33,000, although the local authority felt they could use up to £250,000, he will realise how far short of the required amount the allocation is. This year we hope to be in a position to spend a very substantial amount of money. From the figures, it appears we are not going to get it. Then we will have Ministers for Local Government coming in and telling us that the only reason houses are not being built is that local authorities did not make proper provision for them.

Over the past 12 to 18 months, we have had grandiose water and sewerage schemes being mentioned and everything goes well until they go to the Department and then the Department engages in lengthy inquiries about the schemes. They will not say that there is no money but for some extraordinary reason, the schemes do not seem to be going ahead. The result is we have everything tied up simply because the money is not available, or the Department is not prepared to make the money available for these proposals. Recently I heard a health officer saying, when an application was made for a pump in a certain area, that it would be bad economics to put up the pump, which would have cost between £100 and £150, because there would be a regional water scheme in the area. This seemed to be a good idea until we inquired when the water scheme would be operating. He estimated that definitely it would be within the next 25 years. This is the sort of nonsense we have emanating from the Department of Local Government. Perhaps they are trying to give the impression that all that anybody has to do is to apply for a water or sewerage scheme and it will be there with a snap of the fingers—and then you find that it will not be sanctioned and even if it is sanctioned, there is no money anyway to carry it out.

These facts should have been faced up to by the Minister and the Government. While he has given a pretty exhaustive survey of affairs as he sees them, we are entitled to express our point of view on these matters and to expect that he will listen to them, whether he agrees or not. There is a reference to the increase in grants from 40 per cent to 50 per cent and to the extension of the period from the 31st March, 1968 to the 31st March, 1971 for investment in manufacturing industry. I do not now whether the Minister is aware of this but it is extremely difficult for anybody to get any type of grant of this sort. I have had numerous people coming to me to ask for help to fill in forms applying for these grants and in every case I know of, the applications were rejected after a considerable delay. There was an investigation and eventually they were rejected. It is very galling to those people to find that other people can get substantial sums of money, although they did not seem to have half the investigation carried out into their cases. If they did have similar investigations, it is extraordinary that the grants were paid in the first instance.

I am glad that an increase of 6/- per cwt. in the bacon grant has been introduced and also that the headage grant is being continued. The only thing about which I would fault the Minister —although perhaps it is unfair to fault him for it—is that this should have been introduced when it was found that the pig population was dropping so considerably. As soon as this was found to be the case, there should have been an added incentive.

But it did not have the desired effect.

The Deputy means the sow scheme?

It was introduced immediately the downward trend became apparent.

It was, but it did not have the desired effect. This 6/- per cwt. should have been introduced, or any scheme which the Minister felt would have stopped the drop in the pig population, and prevent the extraordinary situation in which an agricultural country like this is almost completely going out of bacon curing because we have not got the pigs to supply to the factories.

Another point is in regard to the whole question of the Erin FoodsHeinz merger. The Minister does not like the word "merger" but it is the best way to describe it. This is a step in the right direction. I have always held that we must put money into industries based on agriculture and that, if we are going to risk losing money, it is better to risk losing it on something that will be used in the country rather than on something which will be used to manufacture from imported raw materials which even if it were a success, is not very much use to the country.

This Budget, which at first glance appears to be a reasonable Budget, on further consideration, is like shearing the goat, more noise than wool. It is giving away a lot of things that do not amount to very much. The cost of what is being given away is relatively small and the value to the general community is also very small. It may look good on paper and in headlines in the newspapers, but in a few months' time, when the country gets an opportunity to consider it, they will not be as happy about it as the Minister and his colleagues were when it was being introduced yesterday.

When Deputy O'Higgins was speaking last evening in his immediate reply to the Minister's Budget Statement, the best comment he could make in attacking the Budget was that it was predictable. Since then I can only say that the speeches that have been made have been equally predictable in that they have been no more than pinpricking efforts to criticise an undoubtedly good Budget, an expansionist and reflationary Budget, a Budget which reflects the needs of the occasion. When I first came to the House to speak in a general economic debate as Taoiseach, I outlined the economic objectives of the Government and the policies which the Government were following to achieve these objectives. The Government's economic aims, stated simply, are to secure the highest possible rate of growth of output and employment compatible with maintaining reasonable stability on external account. To achieve this aim, policies must be adopted to the needs of the different economic circumstances, both internal and external.

Last year the Government's policy was of necessity directed mainly to correcting the excessive balance of payments deficit which had developed in 1965. The corrective measures then introduced by the Government, as is well known, have been most highly successful, securing as they have a reduction in the balance of payments deficit from £42 million in 1965 to an estimated £16 million in 1966. In their choice and timing of these corrective measures, the Government made every effort to ensure that the necessary reduction in excess demand would be accomplished with the least possible effect on the level of domestic activity, but demand, which, in other words, is expenditure, cannot be reduced or a balance of payments deficit corrected without some adverse impact on domestic economic activity and there is no Government action which can avoid this inevitable consequence of corrective policy. In the event the Government did keep the adverse impact to a minimum.

A growth rate of about one per cent in 1966 undoubtedly compared very unfavourably with the growth rates we achieved in the years at the beginning of this decade. Nevertheless, I think that the fact that we succeeded in reducing the very substantial 1965 deficit to manageable proportions within the space of one year without a fall in output is in itself a very significant achievement. That achievement is all the more noteworthy when account is taken of the many adverse forces, many of them external, which were beyond the Government's control. Our main export market, the United Kingdom, was not only depressed itself but had in force, during much of the period, a levy on imported industrial goods.

That levy, as is now well known by accident, and I say "by accident" because I believe the British Government did not single out this country deliberately, had a worse effect, a proportionately worse effect on us than on any other country trading with Britain in that it affected 20 per cent of our entire exports and most of our industrial exports. The country nearest to that figure was Norway which was affected as to ten per cent and no other country approached anything beyond five per cent. As well as that, they had in force a voluntary system whereby capital investment flowing into this country from Britain was diminished. Our cattle exports also were severely hit by the fall in prices resulting mainly from the implementation of the Common Market agricultural policy as it affected agricultural imports, and particularly cattle exports from this country, Britain and elsewhere. Over and above that, the tourist industry, on which so much of our expansion in economy depends, was adversely affected by the seamen's strike which took place at a very crucial part of last year's tourist season.

Our success in getting the balance of payments deficit down to a manageable size in the face of these external difficulties is, in my opinion, a factor which must generate confidence, not only at home but abroad, in the Government's ability to devise and implement policies capable of coping with the most difficult circumstances. When I refer to our own difficulties, I think it is well known but might be worth adverting to again, that most other countries in Europe have been suffering and continue to suffer from similar types of adverse trends. In this week's edition of the US News and World Report, there is, under the heading “Business around the World”, a reference to downward trends in most European countries. It says that “doldrums seem to be the immediate forecast for most of western Europe”, that Germany's economy will grow by only two per cent this year, that the outlook is gloomier still in Britain, that Frenchmen now talk less optimistically than six months ago, that Dutch investment will fall below 1966 and that unemployment will climb, that Belgium and Finland are likely to grow no faster than last year and from Sweden there is a report that many firms have closed down because Swedish industry is exposed to steep competition and high costs. I mention this to indicate that we are entitled to compliment ourselves on the manner in which we succeeded in getting over the immediate effects of the circumstances under which we suffered and which were common to practically every other European country.

The recession in domestic economic activity was confined almost entirely to the first half of 1966. In the second half of the year, there was a marked improvement. Output in the transportable goods industry increased by eight per cent. The volume of consumption rose. There was evidence of an upturn, moderate though it may have been, in investments. As a result of the improvement in our balance of payments and in domestic conditions, it was found possible to relax gradually the corrective measures which had been taken. For instance, in July a special supplementary allocation of £1½ million was made available towards the Capital Budget specifically for housing and sanitary services. In September the hire-purchase restrictions that had been imposed the year before were relaxed, and in December, the Central Bank were able to advise the commercial banks that a further injection of some £10 million credit into the private sector was justified.

All that indicates quite clearly that the Government were very much alive to the situation. In the first instance, it indicates quite clearly that the measures the Government had enacted were the right ones, and no more and no less than were necessary. The manner in which they were eased indicates that the Government interpreted the economic barometer correctly. The present Budget represents a continuation of the Government's policy of stimulating a revival of activity within the limits imposed by balance of payments considerations. All going well, there is a prospect of a three per cent growth rate increase, or perhaps slightly more, this year. To try to get a faster rate of growth at the expense of a sharp deterioration in the balance of payments would, I suggest, be selfdefeating. Any large increase in the deficit in the balance of payments would inevitably necessitate a return to the corrective measures which contributed to the reduced rate of growth last year.

Deputy O'Higgins in his speech yesterday—and I think in this he reflected a leading article in the Irish Times of the day before or perhaps yesterday—referred to the mistakes made in the Budget and in the mini-Budget, as it was called, last year. I was the Minister then responsible for introducing those two Budgets. I hope that when it comes to making mistakes, I will be able to acknowledge them. In so far as I made a mistake, the one mistake I made was in under-estimating the yield from the new wholesale tax by some £800,000. Fortunately that mistake, if it can be called that, has turned out to be a boon to the old age pensioners, the small farmers and other people who have benefited as a result of this Budget. That was the only mistake, if mistake it must be called.

I might say in passing that the miniBudget of July, 1966, was one of the corrective measures the Government introduced in order to deal with the then situation. It was also designed, and mainly designed in its effect, to compensate farmers for the unusually bad conditions in the spring of that year. Otherwise the Budget of 1966 and the corrective measures to which I have referred have proved to be the right thing to do.

As I have said, the balance of payments has been restored to manageable size. The balance of trade is improving considerably and buoyancy of our revenue has been restored. In fact, those measures proved to be what was needed to put our finances right, to restore our economy, and to ensure a continuing growth. These measures have also made it possible to introduce this Budget which, as I have said, is, at once, expansionist on all economic fronts—it improves the health, education and housing services—and gives welcome reliefs and incentives to those who most need them, and to those who can most profit by them.

As the Minister for Finance indicated, the outlook for 1967 affords room for cautious optimism provided all sections of the community are influenced in their decisions and actions by the need to produce more competitively and to avoid increases in costs and prices. The Government feel justified in giving this additional fillip to the revival in demand and production which is already under way. The Government have elected to give this stimulus mainly in the form of increases in the allocations for public capital expenditure. As the House is aware, public capital expenditure last year came to a figure of £99 million. To this has been added almost £10 million, making almost £109 million in our current year's capital programme.

However appealing it might be politically to stimulate demand by allowing a significant current budget deficit to emerge the Government have rejected this course for two reasons. First we consider that the position of reasonable external stability which we achieved last year with so much effort would be endangered if a significant current budget deficit were allowed to emerge. Secondly we believe it is vitally important to raise the total volume of investment both public and private following the fall which took place last year.

I should like to emphasise that these two elements—the balancing of the Budget and the maintenance of a reasonable balance of payments situation are not just two sacred economic cows which we as the Government must venerate, more or less in the manner of a captive congregation. They are a measure of the extent to which we can manage our own affairs and be seen to manage our own affairs, and to manage them prudently and effectively: prudently to ensure that we can maintain confidence in our economy and that we can retain the confidence of our investors big and small; and effectively so that we can maintain a steady and long-term growth.

Political and economic commentators suggest from time to time that we should deliberately budget for a deficit. A deficit Budget is undoubtedly politically attractive in the short term, at any rate, but one thing we must remember is that such deficits must be made up out of borrowed capital. If deficits occur occasionally and by accident, they are reasonably tolerable, but if they recur as a result of deliberate policy, then one inevitable effect must be to deter investments, both from public and private sources. Investors in Government issues do so in many cases out of a sense of patriotism, out of a sense that they feel they are contributing to productive investment in the country. We need that kind of investment badly in order to stimulate our growing economy but we should be most unlikely to get it if those investors—those who use their finances wisely—thought they were being used to pay current debts.

I said last week that money, like people, enjoys a remarkable degree of mobility. Not only must we manage our affairs well and wisely but we must be seen to do so. There is, as everybody knows, intense competition for investment, for people's savings, all over the world. We have seen, not only in English newspapers coming in here but in our own Irish newspapers, advertisements seeking investment in local authority and other forms of funds and trusts throughout the United Kingdom and elsewhere. We should not, by our own deliberate action, encourage the outflow of our people's savings which we so badly need at home.

Yesterday Deputy Corish posed the question and today Deputy Tully repeated it: What is so special about trying to achieve a balance in one year? In other words, they both said—if I do not misinterpret them—why not let imbalances and adverse trends go on for two, three or longer periods than one year and without taking any immediate action? My only comment on that would be that it would be highly dangerous. If the right steps had not been taken in 1965 and if the easements that were given as they were capable of being given in 1966—if these steps had not been taken—then it would have taken a long, long time for us to get back on the road to recovery, if we ever did, and we certainly should not have been able to introduce what is generally regarded as a good Budget this year.

The increase in public investment, to which I have referred, is in itself a contribution to recovery. It should also stimulate a higher level of private investment. As the Minister pointed out yesterday, public and private investment in many cases complement each other so that increased allocation for public investment tends directly to induce more private investment. Grants and credit for private productive activity are obvious examples. Moreover, the increase in the public capital programme and the general reflationary policy of this Budget will generate a higher demand in the whole economy and thereby induce conditions conducive to growth in the private investment area.

The public capital programme has been set at a level which appears capable of being financed without encroaching on resources likely to be needed for productive private investment. This year's Budget is focussed mainly on stimulating investment and creating more jobs. The Government have gone as far as they can go to encourage a higher rate of growth without risking the emergence of a balance of payments deficit. The Government's efforts could, however, be frustrated if, as a community, we sought to award ourselves the fruits of higher output and productivity before we had earned them.

Here let me say postively that when we talk about restricting incomes, we are referring not only to wages and salaries but to profits as well. While profits must be regarded as essential, the payment of profits and dividends without re-investment in productive activity is something the Government do not condone. If we are to achieve the recovery in the economy which we so earnestly desire, every section of the community should act in accordance with the principle that increases in incomes must follow and not precede increases in productivity. The first victim of failure to act in accordance with that principle would be the level of employment. The second victim would be those very living standards which, misguidedly, it was sought to raise by increased incomes before productivity increases emerged.

Economic progress is a necessary prerequisite to progress in social and cultural fields. The present Budget makes considerable strides in these directions, despite the many claims current on resources and the need to avoid large tax increases while at the same time preserving near balance in the current Budget.

I should like to comment here on a statement made last night by the NFA to the effect that the £5 million extra provided in this Budget is only £5 million out of some £27 million by which overall current expenditure would have increased this year. That statement is grossly inaccurate, to attribute no other term to it. I do not think that the NFA or the cause it purports to serve has done any good by these inaccurate statements. The £5 million is clearly part—in fact, 64 per cent—of the £7.8 million which the Minister was able to provide over and above what was contained in the current Estimates Book. However, if the NFA want to refer to the £27 million by which the current Estimates and the Budget provisions exceed last year's current expenditure, they must also take into account the extra £2.3 million over last year which it includes under the heading of agriculture. They must also take into account the extra £3.5 million provided for education and the extra £2 million provided for health, over and above the £2 million odd by which expenditure on the health services was supplemented during the course of last year. All of these will have to be taken into account.

The farmers benefit as much from these provisions as do the urban members of the community. Therefore, it is grossly inaccurate to suggest that this £5 million is related to that £27 million. It is related to the £8 million which the Minister was able to provide, by way of surplus, over and above the Estimates already published. The money which the 1d a gallon increase will provide from 1st April, which is £1.6 million is included in the extra £2.3 million by which the published Estimates for Agriculture this year exceed last year's expenditure. There is the £7 million expected increase in agricultural incomes over and above any provision made in the Estimates or in the Budget which is predicted by the NIEC. However, so much for the NFA and for the increases which it has been possible to give.

The community must recognise that improved social, educational and income aids from public funds must be paid for from taxation. The fact that we have managed this year to increase all these benefits significantly with only marginal increases in taxation is due to the Government's prudent management of our financial affairs and to nothing else.

I do not want to cover again the ground covered so comprehensively yesterday by the Minister in his Budget Statement, nor do I want to invade the fields of other Ministers, many of whom will deal with the Budget and in particular, their own Departments in the course of this debate. Whether they do so in the course of this debate or when they are introducing their Estimates, every one of them will be able to outline an intensification of activities within their Departments. The Ministers in the economic and social Departments will be able to elaborate on new ideas for the improvement of our economy and the strengthening of our social structures generally.

At this stage I wonder if I should comment on the suggestions or allegations, whichever one might like to call them, of the Opposition, supported by Opposition-orientated journalists, about friction in the Government. When one makes comment on that, one often wonders whether it gives some credence to such allegations; but, if one fails to comment on them, one might well be accused of accepting their validity.

Methinks he doth protest too much.

That is the point. I am always wondering at what stage one should comment on these things.

There was a foreign politician who said: "No rumour is worth believing until it is officially denied".

That is why I have not yet officially denied it.

I do not want to stop you.

As the Estimates unfold themselves, as the policies of our various Ministers are outlined for the benefit of the House and the country, there will be seen such unification of activity that I hope will, without any denial from me, dispel these rumours most effectively.

Then Deputy Blaney will give us the Meat Marketing Board Deputy Haughey promised?

We will argue that around the table when the time comes. We will probably fight hard between ourselves. But, as always in the case of Fianna Fáil—this is the strength of Fianna Fáil—when we make up our minds it will be the decision of all and we will all support it. That is democracy working within a democracy.

I hope you get your own new young Ministers to support you now.

(Interruptions.)

Deputy Cosgrave referred to the incomes policy and again claimed, as he does in many other respects, that Fine Gael were the first to initiate such a policy. I reminded the Fine Gael Deputies on the last occasion that an incomes policy was first adumbrated in the Programme for Economic Expansion before the "Just Society" saw the light of day. We know well that the "Just Society" was only one of the many policy statements issued by Fine Gael during the period between the publication of the first economic programme and the eventual production of the "Just Society." We do not want to suggest that Fine Gael copied our thoughts on an incomes policy from our Programme for Economic Expansion; but if they in this respect would prefer to delude themselves that we have being stealing their programmes and policies, I hope they will be happy in that thought. We will let them have it.

Deputy Cosgrave suggested that nothing was done in relation to an incomes policy and that the Minister referred to it in his Budget Statement only because somebody whispered to him at the last moment that he had to mention something about an incomes policy. It is clearly stated in the Minister's Budget Statement that the Departments have examined the NIEC Report in connection with an incomes policy and have written their comments on it, as requested by the NIEC. If Deputy L'Estrange does not want to take my word for it, he will find a reference to it in page 82 of the Report on Full Employment published by the NIEC, in which they say:

We intend to consider further the constituents of an incomes policy when we have considered the comments from Government Departments on our Report on Economic Situation 1965.

These comments are with the NIEC for several weeks.

They are with them for the past ten years and you have done very little except talk.

This Report was published only a few weeks ago and the NIEC Report on Incomes Policy was published only one and a half years ago.

There has been nothing only talk.

What about what you did to Seán MacEoin in the general election?

What did you tell me about Deputy Haughey with all the ladies he brought down to canvass against you in the general election?

(Interruptions.)

Deputy Cosgrave made an allegation about the Government being dilatory on anti-dumping legislation in the light of increased competition by reason of free trade. I should like to assure him our anti-dumping legislation is very well advanced and has been well advanced only because we have been in intensive consultation with all those who require to be consulted and who might be affected by dumping. We expect to have that legislation before the House shortly. Anti-dumping legislation, like any other legislative measures, is something you cannot produce out of a hat, particularly having regard to our obligations under our international trading agreements, in particular the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Agreement and our obligations to GATT, to which we hope to adhere after the Kennedy Round.

It was amusing to hear Deputy Cosgrave go back to the ante-election tenets. He referred particularly to the 12 per cent wage increase negotiated, not imposed, by the unions and employers prior to the by-elections in Kildare and Cork city over two years ago. We were accused of producing a favourable Budget before the Presidential election, but no comment at all was made on the fact that no promises were made and that nothing could have been more favourable to the Opposition Parties than the conditions that prevailed in the by-elections of last December.

"Vote for poor Jack Lynch: he has six All-Ireland medals—he is a Corkman."

I had to be born somewhere.

We give you full credit for it.

Because I was born in Cork?

It was a clever move.

I do not like to be embarrassing Deputy L'Estrange any longer. I referred in opening to my first address as Taoiseach in this House when I told the House that the object of the Government was more jobs, more families, a rising population and more and better opportunities for all.

We heard that before.

I stressed that progress towards this ideal depends in part on having the right policies, which we have, but also in large measure on having co-ordination and a good team spirit among all members of the public community, particularly among those engaged in production. We believe the Government are pursuing the right policies, and the present Budget is a step on the road to the realisation of our ideals. If all sections of the community accept in 1967 the discipline necessary to get the economy moving forward again, we should, by the end of 1967, be well on the way to the satisfactory growth rates achieved in the first half of this decade. This Budget has got general acclaim and I would refer Deputy L'Estrange to the leading article in today's Irish Independent as an illustration that it is a good Budget.

The turnover tax got the same treatment the next day.

It is an expansionist Budget; it is a reflationary Budget; and what annoys Deputies opposite is that it is a Fianna Fáil Budget.

Whistling passing the graveyard.

Mr. Barrett

This Budget can be described as an hors d'oeuvres Budget. I hope that in describing it as such the suspicions which some of us have that it is purely an hors d'oeuvres to the principal meal which the Minister for Finance will have at the expense of the country at a later stage are not justified.

It is good that you turned up for the debate.

Mr. Barrett

We know enough about the Minister for Finance to say that if he had bad news for the country, this is not the time he would give it, with the local elections coming off within the next three months, that the Minister would be as coy as he could be in retaining to himself any facts which might not be pleasant from the point of view of the electorate. It is undoubtedly an hors d'oeuvres Budget in another way. The Minister had a little to go around and he made it go as far as possible, with an olive here and a sardine there, and the fellow who did not like the olive could take the sardine; there were a certain number of sprats, too, to catch the salmon.

In regard to the social welfare benefits which are now being given to the less fortunate section of the community, do not let us forget that some of them are being given in August and some of them in January. Remember also that anybody who is in receipt of social welfare benefits, unless he is lucky enough not to drink milk and not to smoke cigarettes, will pay through the nose for those commodities, because of the new impositions made by the Minister for Finance, between now and August or between now and January, as the case may be.

There is a much more cynical performance involved in the increasing of the social welfare benefits. We are told £1,500,000 is being given in various ways to the recipients of these benefits. Some of that is going to old age pensioners and widows, but we do not hear any reference from the Government benches to the fact that this time last year many recipients of social welfare benefits in the old age pension and widow categories received increased benefits; those people who had concurrent benefits from Irish and British sources received an increase in their benefits from the British source. What was the reaction of the Minister's Government to that? They took every bit they could find from the Irish recipients. They immediately reduced the benefits these people were getting. These benefits were specifically meant to go into the pockets of the widows and old age pensioners to whom the British Government specifically gave them.

When the Minister was asked a question here on 14th June last, he admitted that the Government got £268,000 from it. It was the biggest bit of banditry since the Great Train Robbery. It was absolutely without any decency. The Minister has increased benefits for widows and old age pensioners, but let it not be forgotten that £268,000 of that is money that was purloined from them last year, will be purloined from them this year, and will be purloined from them in saecula saeculorum.

The Taoiseach, when speaking a few minutes ago, said it was apparent that we are managing our affairs wisely and well. When we are dealing with a massive figure like £300 million, let us remember that the average man in the street, the average Deputy, or even the average accountant is inclined to overlook small matters here and there which all add up to a sizeable amount. We have got to the stage at which we are so busy looking after pounds that we forget about the shillings and pence. When we are dealing with £300 million worth, Deputies may be slow to suggest a small economy here or there.

Like a shilling off the old age pension.

Mr. Barrett

This should not be looked upon as niggling criticism or criticism for criticism's sake. If the Minister and his advisers look into the national affairs with the meticulousness the populace generally would expect from the Minister for Finance, I believe that many economies could be made and much of the public wastage that is going on could be stopped. If we are going to erode the national wealth, it will be done gradually, like all erosions. We come across it when we are walking along a path; we see it getting smaller every day until some day we come along and find it gone.

There is one aspect of this which would properly arise on the Estimate for the Minister for Local Government when the time comes, but at a time of national stocktaking, it is no harm at all that the Government's attention should be drawn to it. I refer to the manner in which inspections take place of houses which are being built with the aid of Government grants and local authority grants and loans. I am quite satisfied from what I know of these inspections that they are not being properly carried out. I am also quite satisfied from what I know that many local authorities give loans for over 30 to 35 years on houses which will not be there in 30 or 35 years' time so badly are they built and so carelessly have they been examined by the inspectors of the local authorities and of the Department of Local Government. I would that I could say I believe the Minister is disturbed about this, and I would that I could say I believe he is interested in doing something about it. From the evidence at my disposal, evidence which is at the disposal of the Minister and of the Taoiseach over a long period, I am convinced that there is no anxiety to correct any irregularities which may have arisen.

In my constituency there is a classic case of this. In my constituency the payment of local authority loans, of Government grants and of local authority supplementary grants in respect of a large number of houses which were built in the constituency was not so long ago the subject of a film by "Home Truths" on Telefís Éireann They had enough interest to produce this film and they had enough interest to produce the facts which are now available to the Minister's Department, or should be. The showing of that film was stopped by the Minister on the ground that he understood that criminal proceedings were following, but that did not preclude the Minister——

Does the Deputy agree with the Minister's action in the circumstances?

Mr. Barrett

I do wholeheartedly. The point I am making is that there was at that stage available to other sources this evidence of certain irregularities which, it was alleged, had arisen in regard to the building of a large number of houses at the expense of a great deal of public money. I was disturbed and I asked the Minister for Local Government a question this week about the matter. I asked him had he caused any inquiries to be made and the Minister's complacent answer was "No", he had not caused any inquiries to be made, and, therefore, the other parts of my question in regard to the alleged irregularities did not arise. What sort of husbandry of our public moneys is that?

The Deputy will pardon me a moment. I think that would be more appropriate to the Estimate.

Mr. Barrett

I agree; I am not using is as a particular case. I am arguing on the general ground that there is extravagance in the manner in which we are spending our money. I want to make one further point. Not alone in Telefís Éireann was this evidence available but in another Department of State, the Department of Justice, there was a large dossier in relation to this matter. One would think that there would be sufficient co-operation between Departments of State to ensure that the political head of another Department of State would not have to come into this House and say he caused no inquiries to be made about an alleged scandalous misuse of public money when two other Departments already knew all about it.

This particular instance has been going on over the past two years. It is only one instance of how difficult it is not only for the man in the street but for Deputies to keep their fingers on the pulse of public expenditure to find out if there is any irregularity. These difficulties proliferate as one goes on to investigate the national scene. A weekly feature almost of debate in this House is the question of the Potez works. The expenditure of public funds is so cloaked and so involved that it is almost impossible to follow the manner in which the money is being canalised from the pocket of the taxpayer into the pockets of various enterprises. The attitude of the Government seems to be: why make it difficult for Deputies to follow when, with a little more effort, you can make it almost impossible? That is what the Government have been doing.

Consider the position with regard to the Potez Aerospace project. If anybody wants to find out what is happening to the money invested in this project, just asking a question about it will elicit no information. It is much more involved than that. In July, 1963, we passed an Act, Taisce Stáit Teo., and under that Act the Minister for Finance was enjoined to form a company, known as Taisce Stáit Teo, whose functions included, the inquiry, the holding, the selling, the assigning or otherwise dealing with shares and debentures issued. Aviation Development Limited having got the money from Taisce Stáit, passed it on to the Potez works and from 1st April, 1965, to 26th March, 1966, there issued out of the revenue, not to Potez, not to Aviation Development Ltd., but to Taisce Stáit a sum of £557,953, most of which evidently went to the Potez project. The citizen who wanted to find out where his money went had to go through all this involved process of first finding out how much had Taisce Stáit got from the Exchequer and how much of that had gone to the Potez works. It is outrageous. It is calculated not alone to mislead ordinary people but to mislead those of us whose duty it is to investigate these things.

Ministers have been deliberately evasive when they have been questioned about this. At a time like this it is only right and proper that the Minister for Finance should be as outspoken and as honest as possible with the House in relation to this matter. I asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce last week for evidence to bear out the statement he has made several times in this House that, in addition to what the Irish taxpayer had invested in Potez, M. Potez himself had invested about £1,300,000 of his own money in the project. One would expect the Minister to say he could not answer the question. What did he say? He simply said that the expenditure on this project was verified by well-known industrial consultants acting on behalf of the State agencies concerned.

Could the Minister give us the State agencies concerned? Could he give us a detailed statement which would satisfy even the Members of this House and the members of his own Party sitting behind him that in that shell down there on the Naas Road, there is, in addition to the £3 million of your money and mine, £1,300,000 extra invested? I do not believe that is so. Any evidence we have asked for has been refused and the Minister cannot blame us if we are cynical. The Taoiseach has stated that not alone are our affairs being managed well but it should appear that they are managed well. The evasions of the Minister for Industry and Commerce last week in relation to a very straightforward question tabled by me do not make it appear that our affairs are being managed as they should be managed.

The Minister told us yesterday that foreign borrowing on any substantial scale is not contemplated in 1967-68. I am glad to hear it. Is that purely from the point of view of central Government? Will the Minister also indicate to local authorities that foreign borrowing will not be encouraged because, for the first time for many years, Cork Corporation have had to have recourse to foreign borrowing within the past 12 months. In relation to the building of 1,800 houses in Cork—I was going to say "in the near future" but I am afraid that is unfortunately not true—the National Building Agency, in its advertisement looking for people to build these houses, indicated that those who would tender for the building of them would have to arrange their own finance. Will the people who build for the National Building Agency be told that they should not borrow abroad either and that, in so far as they can, they should look for their financing at home? I think that if the central Government is taking the view that foreign borrowing should be discouraged, it should be discouraged not alone at the centre of government, but at local level.

Yesterday, in a fine ringing phrase, the Minister when addressing this House stressed that we could get ahead and be a great deal better off as a nation if we wanted to and are willing to seek no more from the community than we are prepared to contribute to it in return. I would be glad if I could believe that this expressed the Minister's convictions. I would be glad if I felt that this Kennedyesque phrase came right from his heart. I would be glad to feel that the Minister was making an appeal to the finer elements in our community to do what they could for this nation, irrespective of what they may win by way of rewards.

But does the Minister really believe what he says? Since last we took part in this national stocktaking, there has occurred a development which has seriously perturbed people in politics throughout the country, people both in the Minister's Party and outside his Party. I refer to the formation of an organisation which expresses itself as being devoted to the furtherance of the Fianna Fáil Party as a political entity. It is important in this way. I have referred in my speech to national stocktaking. The most important national stock you can take is to take stock of the calibre of the men and women who comprise this nation. Little would wealth avail us if our men and women, and particularly the men and the women who interest themselves in the welfare of the State, are not of the best calibre. Does the Minister believe that the people who go to the dinners of this organisation to which I refer and pay their £100 on the plate expect nothing more than their £100?

I should like to say this to the Minister—he is probably politically wiser than I am in many ways—but I would say to him and, as a politician, I think he would agree, that what you really want in this country are the decent, hard-working, generous-hearted idealistic young men and young women of which any Party in order to be a success must be built up. It is sad to feel that the Minister should come in here and speak with one tongue and go elsewhere and speak with another tongue and say: "Look, give us £100 and we will give you a rich return."

I regret, and it is a bad thing, that this development should have taken place in the past 12 months. I say to the Minister that he can have the gentlemen who, irrespective of their political beliefs, irrespective of their political convictions, are ready to sell themselves for a hundred pieces of silver. Give me at any time the young men and the young women who believe that there is a better Ireland to be fashioned by their hands and by mine. I would prefer at any time to be walking in the job of nation building behind and breast-high with these people rather than with the people who stand behind the political organisation of the Government of the time because they believe that by putting down £100 at some stage, they might strike a jackpot.

I do not know whether it is peculiar or not but I am the third Deputy in succession from the constituency of the County Borough of Cork to speak on the Budget and I see two more of my colleagues waiting to come in. That will be five of us. That illustrates how assiduously all of us, irrespective of Party, carry out our duties on behalf of the citizens of Cork.

I was disappointed that when the Taoiseach stood up here to speak on this Budget there were seated behind him the miserable number of 20 Deputies of his Party. I have been in this House since 1954 and it was always traditional that when the Taoiseach came in to comment on the Budget, the backroom boys were whipped up and lashed to be seated behind him, irrespective of the merits or the demerits of the Budget. I am just wondering if it is not more than a coincidence that the necessary discipline was not invoked today when the Cork Taoiseach stood up to speak on the Budget and when he had such a sparse and, I must say, most unenthusiastic attendance behind him.

A very good point.

I can remember the Taoiseach's predecessor——

Nearly as good as Castlebar.

——could hardly open his mouth, could hardly make two sentences, but all the boys at the back cheered him. Now, no matter what punch lines the Taoiseach endeavoured to put into his speech today, there were only 20 Deputies behind him, including the Minister, that is, 19 and the Minister for Finance, and there was no cheering and most of them were looking very lonesome indeed. I think they have reason to be so but what I am cribbing about is that there were previous occasions when there were Budgets worse than this but when the Dublin Mafia of the Fianna Fáil Party organised the cheering and the roaring and the clapping from the back benches and all of them had to be in their seats. They could not be absent. As a Corkman, I resent that treatment of a Cork Taoiseach. I suppose you cannot blame the Deputies for their lack of enthusiasm.

Any more expulsions coming up in your Party?

I will deal with that later and I will deal with some of the expulsions that are pending in your Party also.

I want to say I cannot blame the Fianna Fáil backbenchers for their lack of enthusiasm because after their first show of hand-clapping on the Minister's Budget statement yesterday, they went away and they cooled off and asked themselves: "What exactly is in this Budget?" If they are honest with themselves, they will see quite clearly that it is an unimaginative Budget, a pedestrian effort. It doles out a shilling here and a shilling there. We feel that the introduction of a Budget and the statement of the Minister for Finance and certainly the statement of the Taoiseach, should be something more than a simple exercise in accountancy. I am afraid that is what the Minister has inflicted on the House and on the country, a simple exercise in arithmetic, no matter how much might be involved. The country expects more than that from a Budget Statement.

I should like to hear from the Minister, or the Taoiseach, what the prospects are. There is not much point in telling a docker or a factory worker: "The net result for you, as far as the Budget is concerned, is that you are going to pay more for your cigarettes and for your pint, but beyond that, we cannot guarantee you continuity of employment, cannot guarantee you your job or even that you will have a house to live in." It is that sort of undertaking which the average man requires if you expect him to become enthusiastic and make sacrifices for the general good when he sees others who are not asked to make any sacrifice. The only thing in the Budget for him, if he survives long enough to draw an old age pension, is that he will get 5/- more next October than he would have got last October.

August, actually.

The Deputy should try to keep in touch.

I am trying to keep the Minister in touch. I am keeping him in touch with the common man and I know it is hard to do it because he is so far removed from that stratum. I can keep him in touch with other things if he wishes.

For heaven's sake, the Deputy is never here.

Does the Minister want that? Draw me sufficiently and he will get it.

Talk away.

Before the Minister's rude interruption, I was endeavouring to point out that there is little or nothing in this Budget for the ordinary man, for the wage or salary earner, for the middle-class man. There is a sop for the old age pensioners. God knows, it is nothing to give a great hurrah about that in this year we should say, and be applauded from the Government benches, that we awarded a pension of £2 17s 6d to old age pensioners. Incidentally, while the new taxes go on immediately, we say to the old age pensioner: "You are going to get 5/- extra if you live long enough but it will be in the sweet bye-and-bye". Why is it that while the taxes are going on immediately, the recipients of this miserable increase in old age pensions and social welfare benefits should have to wait? They are entitled to an explanation. It is a miserable saving. Many of them will be dead before the date arrives.

Having said all that, I want to say that we in the Labour Party, as we promised down through the years, voted for new taxation when we were told specifically what it was for. In fairness to the Minister, he did, unlike some of his predecessors, clearly indicate the sources from which he was getting the taxation and how he was going to apply it. We appreciate that and it was because of that clear-cut policy that we decided to vote for it. Our only criticism is that he did not go far enough and I hope he will remember that in the future.

I should like to ask him one question. This year we are to have the local elections. Can he give us any indication that this will be the only Budget we will have this year? Do not forget that his Government had two stabs at it last year. I would hate to impute any sinister or ulterior political motives, although I might have grounds for doing so, but I should like the Minister to give us an undertaking that this is the Budget for the coming financial year and that there will not be any more stabs or minis immediately after the local elections. Some people have serious doubts in that regard and in view of the past performance of the Minister's Party, they are entitled to them, and they are entitled to challenge the Minister to give an undertaking in that regard.

While there appeared to be an air of relief, if not of jollification, among the Fianna Fáil Deputies after the Budget Statement last night, they would want to steady up. They are describing it as a good Budget and I even heard one Fianna Fáil Deputy describe it as "a great Budget", God between us and all harm. They would want to look at this a little more dispassionately. Many of them are in the situation that they cannot see the wood for the trees. Every Deputy has to relate the implementation of the budgetary proposals to the people he knows best, the people in his constituency. As I said, a Budget should be an indication of the broad policy of the Government and not simply a book accounting exercise. It should deal with what they are going to do about housing, employment and redundancy. We have nothing like that in this Budget.

I can remember that when discussing the Free Trade Agreement between Ireland and England I described it as being rash and as it turned out, I was intelligent enough to forecast redundancy in the factories of Cork, arising from it. I was told at the time I was unpatriotic and I was unrealistic. I said that because of the Free Trade Agreement, there would be redundancy in two of our greatest factories in Cork, in Irish Dunlop and in Fords. I was scoffed at for my remarks. The fact is, as Cork Deputies can tell you, every week for the past few weeks workers have been laid off in Dunlops. It is not just a temporary lay-off; they have been told: "You are getting such and such compensation for the loss of your job; goodbye, God bless you, you will never work here again." That was the situation I forecast but I was told by Government spokesmen that I did not know what I was talking about. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I want to place on record that what I said at that time has come true and I want some of the people who endeavoured to pooh-pooh my statement to get it into their skulls that far from getting better, it is going to get worse. That is my second forecast, that arising out of the Free Trade Agreement, bad and all as the employment situation is in Cork at the moment, it is going to be worse. I would be sorry that my forecast today would be as accurate as the one I made on the last occasion.

We did not hear much from the Government side during the Budget Statement about major national questions. Apparently several of these matters are not to be discussed in the House; it is thought better that they should be discussed at meetings of the Ard-Chomhairle Ceanntair of Fianna Fáil, at symposia of Tuairim or at the annual soirées of the junior and major chambers of commerce. It is most frustrating that people in the trade union movement should pick up their newspapers in the morning and find there that on the previous night, before a biased audience where there would not be any hecklers, the Minister for Industry and Commerce had made a statement about the incomes policy of the Government. It is extraordinary that he would not express these views at the annual general meeting of some trade union. If the Minister for Industry and Commerce is not available, the Minister for Transport and Power is always available and he will throw out statistics so fast that no one can assimilate them.

I do not mind them making these statements if they make them with all due responsibility. They say they must get the trade unions to exercise restraint in the matter of wage increases. Does it ever appear to them that there are people employed in this country, 250,000 of them, who are eaning less than £12 a week? It is useless to go to a man with a wife and four or five children who is earning £12 a week and tell him that he will have to tighten his belt, even though no effort is made to control prices. There is no mention of people who are earning their living —"earning" is probably the wrong word; I should say "getting their living from other sources"—from profits, dividends and directors' fees.

It is not good enough for any Government or any Minister of Government to pontificate to our people regarding our wages when they are turning the blind eye to other matters and when they are closing their eyes entirely to incomes available to other people, when they are doling out incomes themselves to their white-haired boys. The working man will look at this Budget and ask himself what is in it for him, what is in it for his unemployed son, what is in it for his son just leaving school. All of us will have to admit that as and from the day when the former Taoiseach promised 100,000 new jobs, the cold statistic of the matter is that there are now 64,000 fewer employed in this country than there were when he made that promise.

It is unfair, very unfair, to expect the people to be in any way enthusiastic about this Budget. All of us will welcome the social welfare increases and the other increases which, in a small way, benefit the community generally. We regret very much that there is no desire on the part of the Government to do any better. The Labour Party voted for the extra taxation to raise the money for the small increases that are being given but we feel that so far in this debate, and I was disappointed with the Taoiseach's speech, sufficient ground has not been traversed. We had expected that there would be some definite statement on the housing situation and on the dilemma in which many local authorities find themselves in that regard.

I remember when the present Taoiseach was a member of Cork Corporation with Deputy Healy, Deputy Barrett and myself. The inter-Party Government were in office at the time and our allocation for housing in Cork was £750,000. He nearly had a fit. I thought he would get a seizure when he was told of the allocation. I thought he would die but he survived to become Taoiseach of a Government who today give us £350,000 for housing in Cork and he and his cohorts will blandly tell us that they are doing the best they can. That is the biggest fraud that could be perpetrated on the people of Cork.

I do not want to detain the House any longer except to summarise what I have already said, that this is an unimaginative, pedestrian Budget that doles out a very few favours to a very small section of the community. It is something which certainly will not evoke the enthusiasm which the Minister sought from the ordinary people of the country when he suggested that they must work for their country.

I pointed out before you took the Chair, Sir, that there is nothing in this Budget to make these people excited, or imaginative, or intelligently involved in the progress of the country. Take the poor farmer in the west of Ireland. He picks up his paper and finds that we are going to build four satellite towns around Dublin. On the one hand, we have the Government expressing their concern—lipservice, I grant you—for the farmers in the West and in the South-West. On the other hand, we have voluntary organisations like Dochas, the Save the West Organisation, working day and night, pulling in shillings and pounds in order to set up a few co-operatives in the West in an endeavour to do something for the people who are fading away in those areas.

We have heard of the high and mighty, the commissions which are appointed, the alleged experts brought from Britain and further afield to study these problems. One of their latest eruptions is a suggestion that we should build four satellite towns for an anticipated increase in the population of Dublin and its surroundings. In other words, much as we disliked the word "Pale" historically long ago for historical reasons, it now appears to be official policy to set up the Pale again with an even more restricted boundary than heretofore, and forget the West, the South, the South-West and the North-West.

The ordinary people of the country will not "wear" that very much longer. They are bound to be disappointed in the Budget because of its lack of any proposals to do something concrete for them. They see no future in it. I suppose it would be much worse but for the fact that the local elections are coming along this year. In spite of the fact that some slight effort has been made to induce the people to vote for the Government in the local elections, it is not good enough, and it will be shown during the campaign for what it is.

I should like to ease Deputy Casey's mind by assuring him that the local elections are of no assistance whatever so far as politics are concerned. I have been fighting them since 1924, for 40 odd years. A councillor is elected because it is considered locally that he will look after the people there and that he will do his job in the local authority for the people he is elected to represent. It has damn all to do with politics.

I have been in this House for nearly 40 years and this is the first time I saw a majority of over 40 trotting around the lobby to vote for the Budget. The figures were 80 odd to 40 odd. I must congratulate Deputy Casey on being one of the Deputies who trotted around with us, so it must not be such a bad Budget, even though he abuses it today. I would not pay too much heed to Deputy Casey, the Lord Mayor, or his legal adviser, Deputy Barrett, so far as their financial figures are concerned. They are the two gentlemen who came in here immediately after the last general election and held up this House for nearly two months fighting a boundary Bill through the House. They told the people of Cork and assured the country generally that the total amount of compensation which would have to be paid was £400,000, and they now find they are facing a bill of £1½ million, which is far below the figure we are entitled to, in my opinion.

Is it not a fine thing that a small body like Cork Corporation, in a country which according to Deputy Dillon is "bust", can find £1½ million to present to us before 1st May? That shows the financial standing of the country if ever there was a picture of it. A small body like Cork Corporation can hand over £1½ million to Cork County Council and, according to the arbitrator, it must be paid before 1st May. That is a lot of money. Instead of being so grabbing and looking over their neighbours' ditches, those people we hear wailing about houses could build a lot of houses for £1½ million in Cork city.

They could find the money to hand over to the county council but they could not find it to build houses for the people they are wailing and moaning about here. Why? Ask yourselves that. I had to spend weeks fighting against that iniquity here which was forced through by the Corporation, by the Aldermen and Burgesses and the legal adviser in Cork. After fighting it through, they said that the maximum compensation involved would be £400,000, but the arbitrator found they were liable not for £400,000 but for £1½ million. Do you not think that that pair would bring in a great Budget? Let us have a look at the two estimators, and at the difference between £400,000 and £1½ million on a couple of acres of land.

Deputy Cosgrave alluded today to something I am worried about. We have at present 25,000 civil servants and 8,000 temporary civil servants, that is, 33,000 civil servants. Evidently they are not satisfied with their pay. They do not think they are getting enough if one is to judge by the way they are voting in Dublin. There are 33,000 of them living in the city constituencies and they created a great racket when it came to endeavouring to deprive Eamon de Valera of the honour of being President of the State. They are all living here. There is no doubt about that, so I am not surprised at the figures you get around Dublin.

A lot of them come from Cork.

No, they are not from Cork—not from my constituency anyway. There was a suggestion here before when Dr. Ryan was Minister for Finance that we have that matter investigated and cleared up. I suggest it is high time it were done now because I do not think that that old man of the sea can be carried by our people much longer. You could do with 50 per cent of them, I think, and get much better work.

Who is the old man of the sea?

The next thing I heard —and I was very pleased at the compliment—was a reference by Deputy Cosgrave to a constructive Opposition. You have no more an Opposition over there, God help us, as far as honest, constructive criticism is concerned than you have brains. You have none of it there because the brains are not there. You cannot think, honest to God. The most ineffective team I have met in my 40 years of public life, as far as an Opposition is concerned, are over there now—useless.

We hear complaints. Let us bear in mind that this country was described as being on the verge of bankruptcy—"financially burst" said my pal, James. We must compare that description with the condition of affairs in which a Budget could be introduced such as that which was introduced yesterday and we must wonder at the change. For the past 12 months, we have been listening to wails and moans. The only difference between our Government and the two mixum-gatherums is that we stuck it out. We said we were responsible for the people and that we would see them through the bad patch. The crowd opposite ran away twice: they had two chances and they ran away each time. They disappeared on one occasion after three and a half years and the next time they disappeared after three years. Out they went, with a complete majority.

I was rather surprised to hear sneers about disunity in the Fianna Fáil Party. When I heard those sneers yesterday, my mind went back to the time when I was sitting over there on the Opposition benches and when there was a legal array lined up on the Government benches. I remembered that I looked across the floor of this House and that, for three long days of the time of this House, they crucified their own Minister for Health, Dr. Browne. They spent three days in this House crucifying him: I could not describe it by any other term. He threw up his post as Minister for Health and got out. Then the crowd who did that talk about rumours of disunity in this Fianna Fáil Government. Sure, they were like a lot of tomcats that were tied together. I could not describe them in any other way when I recall the way they carried on.

We now find that this alleged bankrupt Government give an increase of 5/- a week to the old age pensioner. They come along on every line and look after each one of them in turn. Of course, I know, from what we heard here from Deputy Cosgrave earlier and from what we heard from the NFA last night, that credit for the benefits in this Budget is being withheld from Fianna Fáil. We had it from the creamery milk sellers also. The tune was to this effect: "We are the people who did it. We are the people who are responsible for it. Look at what we made the Government do". It is rather amusing to hear this line of argument from all those people.

During the past few months we have heard a lot about the small farmers. This Government have come very definitely to the relief and assistance of the small and uneconomic farmer. In my opinion, they have met him in a way he should be met. I do not think that the boys with ranches from 250 to 400 acres will be too pleased with the result of their argument. However, the small farmer has got help and relief and so has the creamery milk man—another man who must work on the land and who does not spend his time at the Curragh races. He, too, has got help and assistance and relief, and that is the line I like to see any Government take.

We hear a lot of noise about the number of people who leave the land and about the reduction in the rural community. Why would they not do so, when we take all the factors into consideration? Do you mean to tell me that any young Deputy—we are nearly all too old to work here—will refuse a job at from £15 to £25 a five day week and prefer to spend his time on a farm for a "tenner" for a seven day week? That is the kernel of the problem of the flight from the land. It is just as simple as that.

I have them, neighbours of mine. Anybody who passes my house on a Sunday morning will see a procession of them there all waiting for a letter to the steel merchant or to the Verolme Dockyard merchant. It is certain that the country lad who has been working for the farmer and who gets that letter will never again spend one day on the land because he has his five-day week and about £15 a week in wages and he would be a damn idiot if he settled for the less well paid job. That is what is wrong with the whole position as regards rural Ireland about which we hear so much noise. Let us face it frankly. So long as the rural community have to work a seven-day week for between £10 and £12 per week, then so long shall we have that condition of affairs.

The lad on the land must work a seven-day week. If we take the five-day week and calculate the overtime which would be due to him for finishing on the following Sunday night instead of on the previous Friday evening, an extra two days, and see what his wage should be then, in those circumstances, we shall realise that we are wrong in thinking we are doing a lot for him when we give him one penny a gallon on his milk. Let us look frankly at these things.

The cost of production on the land has gone up by 16½ per cent in the past four years. I state that as a member of an organisation which has the honour of being the only organisation in this country to succeed in getting costs of production carried out and fulfilled, the Irish Sugar Beet Growers Association.

I have figures here for the price of beet. In 1963-64, the price of beet was 125/- a ton. In 1964-65, the costings drove that price up by 11/1d to 136/1d. In 1965-66, we were entitled to 5/3d, but the Sugar Company told us they had no money and could not pay unless they increased the price of sugar— which, of course, could not be done on the five-day week fellow. We had to take our people out on strike, with the result that we got our 5/3d.

In the following year, 1966-67, when we met the representatives of the Sugar Company, they appeared at the door with outstretched hands and told us there was not a penny for anybody. I said: "Let us in anyway and we will have a few words about it," but the same statement was repeated inside. I asked them was there money for nobody or did they mean only the farmer. They said there was no money for either farmers or workers. I replied that in those circumstances we would accept the present price for the coming year, but on condition they signed an agreement that if there was any increase in wages of the workers during the next 12 months, the same increase would go to the beet growers. General Costello said that was fair enough and signed the agreement. We signed the contract in January and in June, General Costello came to me and said: "You caught me." I asked him: "For how much?" He said: "For the full year, it would be 8/9d a ton. You have the ground ploughed and beet sown. On the costings, that is 2/1d a ton up to the singling time. Therefore, you are entitled to 6/8d a ton and we will pay it to you." The year before we had to go on strike for 5/3d, but that year we got our 6/8d on the beet that went in up to January last.

This year there is added to that a further 3/-. Therefore, the price of beet has increased since 1963-64 by 26/- a ton or 16½ per cent. That is done on costings prepared by the Beet Growers Association and the Irish Sugar Company. That was started in 1947 and has been brought up to date every year since. If the grower has to pay his workers more or a higher price for fertiliser, that is the result. The present price is based on a wage of £10 a week for an agricultural worker or a farmer working on the land. Then you wonder why you have a flight from the land! Facts are very stubborn and bitter things, but they are facts. Those are the only costings ever taken of an agricultural crop in this country. That is our charter of freedom, on which we can base what we are entitled to. I wonder what those concerned with other commodities have been doing, those who can come out today and sneer at the Beet Growers Association. The facts are that in a ten-year period the price of beet has increased from 111/- in 1956-57 to 151/- this year.

This is an industry rooted in the soil of this country. It pays 70 per cent of the total freight income of CIE. It gives employment to between 5,000 and 7,000 people in our factories. That is the kind of industry we want in this country. It was built up by one man who is, to my mind, one of the greatest, if not the greatest, captains of industry in this country—General Costello. Not being satisfied with building it up from a twopence halfpenny showbox which it was when he came into it in 1946, he went into the new line of foodstuffs. Today there are close on 2,000 people employed in the factories producing foodstuffs. That is the kind of advance I want to see in this country.

Four years ago General Costello came down to my area and said: "Look, for every £1 you put up, the Sugar Company will put up £1 against you. Build up a little industry here." We collected £30,000, got £30,000 from the Sugar Company and started. We began with 230 acres of vegetables the first year. At present we are in what we call our second period of expansion with over 1,200 acres under vegetables for the coming year. As chairman of that organisation, I found myself in the unfortunate position of having applications for 2,800 acres of vegetables. I was only able to give less than one acre for every two applied for. That is why I blame the industrial arm and the sales arm. When the working farmers, as distinct from the drones, have faith in an enterprise, prove their faith with their money, their labour and their land, the least we expect is that the industrial side, the men with the finance, will be working on two lines, first, acquiring the money for the expansion and, secondly, providing the market for the produce.

I am very glad that Heinz stepped in with Erin Foods in that matter. I hope that within the next two years, we shall have 10,000 acres under vegetables in east Cork. When I hear figures given here for agricultural production, I begin to wonder whether the processed vegetables leaving our factories for export are put down as industrial items or as agricultural items. That is something that should be seriously considered. The opening is there and that opening is being used with equal success by the small farmers in Skibbereen and the large farmers in east Cork. I have seen a gross return of £210 an acre from carrots this year. If crops are giving that gross return, then you have made the paradise of the small farmer. That is far better for small farmers than doles or anything else you can give them. The remedy is there if there is anybody with the same outlook and the same courage as General Costello to apply it.

I was very proud and glad to see General Costello appointed to the Agricultural Council. It is well worth the nation's while to have him there as a guide and adviser, if nothing else. I would advise any Minister for Agriculture, in our time anyway, to listen very carefully to advice General Costello will give and to carry it out, because it will not put him two feet astray. I have seen this old disused mill, which was closed down for seven years, reopened. Last year we paid £40,000 in wages and we paid £68,000 to the farmers for their crops. That is a good example to be followed. It involves the joint co-operation of the Sugar Company and the ordinary farmer. The farmer must be a worker, a man who is prepared to work his land and get the maximum production from his land.

I do not agree with the heifer loan scheme. That scheme has upset the applecart in regard to our Agreement with Britain on cattle. We have found ourselves with about 150,000 more young cattle than we had previously and there was no market for them. We succeeded last January 12 months in sending 10,000 of those cattle to Egypt. Nasser paid £9 10s a cwt for them. This year we started out on the same line to sell cattle to Italy, a country that would buy nothing but bullocks. We sent over 3,000 bullocks which are at present being tested on the farms of the Italian university, tested out in preparation for an order for 50,000 of them. One weekly paper that pretends to be the voice of the farming community said their correspondent, Mr. Joe Keane, went over to Italy and examined those cattle: they were flukey, worm-infested, lice-infested, and a disgrace to the country that reared them. That was a good step by an agricultural organisation pretending to represent the farmers, towards helping in the export of our stock. The whole thing was a lie. These cattle were bought by Italian buyers. They knew what they were buying. When next I come to speak on this subject, I hope to be able to give far more definite proof of the falsity of their statements because I expect by then the Italians will be put over a barrel. That is the kind of harm that is being done to this country and to our exports.

When you come to look at the difference between the 1,200 acres that earned the contract this year and the 2,810 acres my farmer offered to contract for, the difference in the gross income to the farmer is over £150,000 on that one item alone. In relation to the processed vegetable trade, we can get abroad and in our home market, at a conservative estimate, between £5 million and £10 million within two years. That market is there for our farmers. We need not import the raw material. The raw material can be grown on our own soil, delivered to our own factories and processed by our own workers. I believe this is the sheet anchor of our greatest hopes for agriculture in the future. Frankly it is in that light I look at it.

I have heard both sides here moaning about unemployment. My mind goes back to a couple of years ago, to the day on which Deputy Barrett came in here and endeavoured to sabotage the Verolme Dockyard. I remember the assistance he got, some of it halfhearted, if you like, from other parts of the House. That dockyard is today giving permanent employment to over 900 able-bodied men, 80 per cent of whom, I am sorry to say, come out of Deputy Barrett's and Deputy Casey's constituency of Cork city. This game of sabotage was considered so good that Deputy Fitzpatrick, who now occupies the Opposition Front Bench, considered it worth his while to tell his constituents in Cavan that the first job the Opposition would do, if they were elected as the Government, was to abolish extravagances like the Verolme Dockyard. That was in his election address to the people of Cavan. I suppose most of them had never heard of the Verolme Dockyard and so it was a safe bet up there. That is the kind of sabotage we have from a bunch of hypocrites who come in here subsequently crying and moaning about unemployment.

This is a good Budget. It is the job of our own people to establish industries which will provide employment for our own people, and decent employment at that. Side by side with employment must come the provision of housing. I judge the state of a country by the demand for housing. If there is a great deal of unemployment, nobody will be looking for a house. People will be looking for a boat to take them out. When a young man, however, finds he is in constant employment with a decent wage, the first thing he does is to look around for a good-looking lassie. He puts his arm around her and asks her to marry him. It is as simple as that. When we get a Government— I believe we will some time—who will work on the basis of, first of all, finding employment for our people and, secondly, providing them with decent homes to live in, then we will have what many of my comrades died for, but not until then. That is the main hope so far as this country is concerned. That will have to be done.

With regard to the Department of Local Government, they should get rid of the Jobs. They are living back in the days when they had all the time in the world to find excuses for not giving grants and loans, the time when there was no dough, the time the last inter-Party Government were in office. They have rules and regulations that would not be found in any other civilised country. Fancy a regulation that a local authority may not build a house for a man unless he is married.

The Deputy may not continue along those lines. Rules and regulations may be relevantly discussed on the Estimate, but certainly not on the Budget.

I am dealing, Sir——

I know what the Deputy is dealing with; he is dealing with housing and administration in the Department of Local Government. That matter is not relevant.

I will deal with it in another way. Six miles from Cork city in my constituency, an industrialist recently spent £250,000 expanding his industry. He had that much faith in this country, a country Deputy Dillon said was "bust". Having done that, he now finds himself in the position that he has to put three buses on the road to bring his workers 25 to 30 miles to work. I suggest it is the duty of the Taoiseach and the duty of the Minister for Finance to get over whatever obstacles are in the way of that man having his workers in their own village in their own houses.

That matter can be discussed on the Estimate but not on the Budget.

And I will have a field day on it. Those are the things that I have to look at. Those are the things my constituents send me here to speak of. It is because I am looking after them and their interests that I will be putting in my fortieth year here next June.

Deputies

Good man.

I do not wish to go further except on the line that I believe the salvation of our country lies in more industry and in finding some means of dealing with the agricultural community that will keep them at home working their own land at an income that will enable them to be as good as the five-day week industrialists. The Government who will work on that line will be here and those boys will be over there until their whiskers grow down to their knees.

This Budget has been lauded on the Government side as being a very good affair and as giving a boost to the economy. If it had done that, we, on this side of the House, would have been in favour of it, but it has not done that.

The Taoiseach said that the Government spending will stimulate private spending. I sincerely hope so, but we have suffered in a strange way from a surfeit of Government spending in the past few years, with the consequence that the sources of money were dried up for the private spender, namely, the ordinary business person, which led to an extraordinary shortage of money. That had a very bad effect on the economy. I sincerely hope the Taoiseach is correct in saying that Government spending will stimulate private spending. I genuinely hope that this is so but it has not had that effect up to now. I see no clear reason why, on this occasion, Government spending will have any more than the effect it has always had in the past, of decreasing the amount available for commercial purposes. I do not know precisely why that particular argument was made by the Taoiseach because there is not any very great increase in capital expenditure in this Budget.

We, on this side of the House, welcome the social welfare aspect of the Budget but we do not think that there is anything particularly wonderful being done in that respect. However, I do not want particularly to talk about the medical expenses tax relief or the dependent relative relief or the child allowance increases because those amounts are very trifling. They have a political effect but they have very little effect on the actual income of the people concerned, nor, indeed, have they any great effect in cost on the overall increases in taxation. What they do is to give this political boost to the Budget.

I would like to see happening here what I described at the beginning as a boost, a lift to the economy because industry and business generally have been suffering from a real recession in the past few months and were suffering during most of last year from the effects of the credit squeeze. I know we cannot and I am not attempting to blame the Government entirely for the credit squeeze or even, perhaps, mainly for it. There has been a worldwide shortage of capital but certainly it was exacerbated in our particular economy by the fact that the Government were spending on public expenditure such a large proportion of the national income. Economies were urged in the private sector of the economy, namely, business, but the Government themselves were not practising what they preached.

It was admitted by the Minister in his Budget speech that our level of taxation is one of the highest in the world. That is a very unenviable position in which to find ourselves. We, on this side of the House, believe and I believe very strongly that an easing up of the tax situation as it affects business and a lowering and an easing of the tax burden on the community generally would in the short-term and more so in the long run have a very beneficial effect on the general level of employment and on general business turnover. A reduction in income tax and corporation profits tax would give industry a very much needed boost and would in a very short time result in increased employment and a generally higher level of prosperity in the country. We are being dragged down businesswise through high taxation. It is almost impossible for an average business to put by money for increases in prices of commodities.

We all know that the cost of living is going up each year by something like four per cent. That affects business in just the same way as it affects our ordinary household budget. It is costing that much extra to hold and maintain the same amount of stocks. They are increasing at that rate each year. To finance that, businesses find that they need to make higher profits. In addition, cost of repairs, of general improvements, of replacements and so on, is something that can only be borne out of profits. When profits are taxed, as they are here, to an enormous extent, we find ourselves very adversely affected. We are affected not only by the tax structure but by the rate of taxation.

I appeal to the Minister to give this matter a great deal of thought. When we go into the Common Market, as we hope we will, then not only will our export industries and manufacturing industries generally, about which there has been a great deal of talk and thought, be up against very strong competition, but so will every other form of business. Retail and wholesale businesses, the ordinary buying and selling of commodities, will be up against fierce continental competition and it will be extremely difficult for our businesses to carry on as they are, operating at a higher tax level than that which operates in continental countries, not to mention across the water.

The Minister referred to the earnings of younger executives and said it was difficult to keep these people unless a tax concession was made. A tax concession was made but I have not yet had time to work out just how far this is a real help or how far it is something about which one could say: "Well, thank you very much; you have given me almost nothing." I have sat on this side of the House for so many years that——

And for many more, we hope.

It is very nice of the Minister to say so. I needed that boost to my morale but let him wait until he hears what I am about to say. I have been here long enough to view with suspicion anything in the nature of tax concessions because I never found any of them to be worth very much. They look better on paper than they work out in reality. I hope that on this occasion the Minister has provided this increased relief for the younger executive——

If the Deputy would tell me what his income is, I would give him the exact relief.

I do not know what the younger executive's income would be, because I regret to say I have passed out of the younger executive class, and so I do not know.

Could the Minister say what this surtax concession amounts to in one year?

£150,000.

I do not think it was given in the Minister's speech.

It was. May I just say that it is mainly a readjustment inside the surtax system, plus £150,000?

This policy of penal taxation on higher income levels does not help us as a country. In the long run, it is bound to affect the urge towards greater profits and the urge which all young people have to get the maximum return for their labour. It means that we are placed at a disadvantage in comparison with other countries. Yesterday evening I was talking to a solicitor who said that some years ago he was approached by many different wealthy individuals who were contemplating coming to Ireland to live but that when they went into it, they found that the rate of taxation was too high. This idea has been put forward in relation to death duties by a number of people who felt that if we cut down our death duties, we would gain by attracting an increased number of wealthy people who would give employment and provide much-needed revenue. We certainly follow a policy of taxing these people very highly and this has been to our detriment as far as revenue yield is concerned. We have lost by it.

The Minister referred to culture and leisure and speaking as another vulture for culture, I was glad to see that he referred to our love for, and interest in, the arts. I want to say to him that I wish he would get a move on with the Kennedy Concert Hall and its Committee. I am a member of that Committee and it has not met for a long time. It was and is doing very excellent work. The Concert Hall is not actually being held up to the extent it appears to be because the architect and his team have been working away but he has not had the financial support which he wishes for. The Committee wish to see the project progressing at such a rate that the hall will be completed in a fairly short time, or certainly within a reasonable time. It is a very beautiful design and well worthy of the man to whose memory the people and the Government are to erect it. I take this opportunity of asking the new Minister to push forward this project with all speed. There is also a high labour content in it and the amount that falls to be spent in any one year is very small.

I do not intend to speak very long on this Budget. It is mainly a political Budget, with a touch of social welfare thrown in. I am sorry the opportunity has been lost for another 12 months of stimulating industry and business generally. We badly need a Budget which will ease somewhat the appalling burden of taxation on industry generally. I would like to work out— I have never been able to do so—what the burden of taxation is on every employed individual in this country. It is very high. I refer to people employed right from the low levels. Every employed man in Ireland is carrying a very heavy burden of social welfare on his back and a very heavy burden of taxation generally. It is up to the Government to see that that burden is made as light as possible. Owing to the high level of taxation, the individual wage earner is now carrying a heavier burden than he should.

Having listened to the moaning and groaning of the Opposition speakers during the three weeks of the by-election campaign in South Kerry and having listened to their speeches here tonight, I have no doubt that the electors of South Kerry and Waterford were fully justified in demonstrating at the polls their confidence in the Government. I have heard Deputy Dockrell say that this Budget should have been designed to boost the economy more. I maintain that the economy is sufficiently boosted at the moment. The proof of that is that in order to provide additional services and benefits, it was necessary for the Minister for Finance to impose additional taxation to the extent of only £2½ million in the current financial year. This is a very popular Budget.

I want to refer to certain aspects of it. There is no doubt that the Government are fully conscious of the need to solve the problems confronting the people in the West, and in the congested and undeveloped counties. To my mind, the future of these areas depends on specialised lines of agriculture, fisheries and tourism. I welcome, in particular, the additional grant of £100,000 to Bord Fáilte to provide extra subsidies for the farm holiday schemes. Very many people in the rural communities, particularly in the tourist areas, could benefit immensely by these schemes.

The proposal to operate a scheme of grants for the development of caravan sites is another improvement in this direction. Recently there have been great developments in the acquisition, development and maintenance of these sites. It costs a considerable sum to do this. At present it appears that in Britain this tourist market is overtaxed and in all probability, over the next few years we are going to get much more caravan amenities. This scheme of grants has come just in time.

There is another aspect of this Budget which will be welcomed in the 12 western counties, that is, the provision of £250,000 for county development teams. These teams have done tremendous work since they were initiated 18 months ago. They have carried out very detailed surveys and it is well known that before any real scheme can be initiated, one must have a well carried out survey. These surveys, which are now available, will be of tremendous advantage to the Department of Finance, as well as to the county development teams themselves. In Kerry, the county development team were responsible for initiating small industries. They played a big part in the provision of a major industry in Killarney which was helped immensely by the conditions prevailing as a result of the Free Trade Agreement. The Minister was fully justified in providing an additional £250,000 for these teams which consist of the senior officers of the local councils, the vocational education committees and the county committees of agriculture.

The relief of rates on the first £20 of land valuation will be more than welcomed. I was amazed that Fine Gael allowed it to go on record that they voted against this yesterday evening. As regards rates generally, which are increasing yearly, I feel that they have now reached a peak. The Minister for Finance and the Minister for Local Government should pay special attention to the various schemes being carried out by local authorities, and particularly the schemes being carried out by county councils and borough corporations. Every effort should be made to have these schemes carried out as efficiently as possible, particularly the major water supply schemes, sewerage schemes and housing schemes. Very often what the local authorities should try is some pilot schemes, and instead of carrying out schemes by contract, they should do them themselves by direct labour under the supervision of a works study engineer. If they did that, I have no doubt that the profits accruing to the contractors would be there for the benefit of the ratepayers. Each local authority should have a contracts department, or a department which would specialise in carrying out these schemes under the supervision of a works study engineer. It is well worth trying.

I know that the people in the towns and village who have no agricultural land, when they realise that farmers with valuations of up to £20 will not now be liable for rates, will ask why they cannot get a reduction on somewhat similar lines. The answer is that the incomes of property owners in towns have increased far more than the incomes of the farming community. Over the past ten years or so, the gap has widened, and particularly over the past two years.

It should be of great concern to the Government and to the nation that the cost of the health services is increasing rapidly year by year without any expansion in the services. This is due mainly to increases in salaries and wages, and the high cost of the administration of the services generally. The increasing cost of the services is due, to a great extent, to the high and ever-increasing cost of drugs and medicines. I recommend strongly to the Minister for Health, and the health authorities in general, that some scheme should be initiated whereby a central pharmacy would be set up in each health authority. These central pharmacies exist in Limerick and Dublin, and considerable savings are made on drugs and medicines.

By having a central pharmacy, the health authorities could bulk-buy drugs, probably at a reduced rate. There would be no wastage because the stock could be taken back into the central pharmacy before going out of date. There would be more control of the system of ordering drugs and medicines, and more control of the drugs and medicines themselves. An effective saving could be made along these lines. I strongly recommend to the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Health that they should look at this aspect of the administration of the health services.

There is no doubt that the Fianna Fáil Government can be regarded as the Government for the poorer section of the community. The poorer sections of the community can thank the Fianna Fáil Government for the rapid increases in social welfare benefits over the past ten years or so. For the first time, 10,000 smallholders will be eligible for unemployment assistance throughout the whole year. This scheme is, to my mind, a remarkable achievement. It is something that could not even have been dreamed of a few years ago.

It is unfortunate that in this country, which is predominantly an agricultural country, about 70 per cent of the people are engaged in non-agricultural employment. That leaves about 30 per cent engaged in agriculture. This means a heavy subsidy in relation to agriculture. The Minister for Finance and the Minister for Agriculture should take a hard look at our agricultural advisory service. There is no doubt that this service is manned by outstanding agricultural instructors. I think we are right in concentrating on pilot schemes and in thinking in terms of extending the pilot areas. Instead of having 20 or so agricultural instructors in each county, we should have 20 or 30 pilot farms in each county, each controlled by an agricultural instructor. The records would be available for inspection by the local farmers. These pilot farms should be a model for the other farmers who would be thinking in terms of improving their own holdings up to the same standard as the pilot farms, provided they were satisfied that the pilot farms were showing a good return.

This Budget is definitely a good Budget for the small farmers, one of the worst off sections of the community. A small farmer with a valuation of between £5 and £10, rearing a family on a farm carrying six to 12 cows, has very little income between 1st October and the time when his first milk cheque comes in May. He can definitely thank the Government for the extension of the unemployment assistance scheme to the whole year. This will help to supplement his income.

I heard Deputies criticising the Department of Finance, or the Minister for Finance, in that it was alleged that there are too many civil servants. Probably in relation to the population and the gross national expenditure, we have as great a number as any country, and perhaps a greater number; but, again, we must always remember that, in all probability, the same number of civil servants could cater for a larger population and could also control a much larger expenditure. We should thank the previous Minister for Finance, Senator Dr. Ryan, for initiating schemes of organisation, methods of work study and efficiency methods in State Departments. I welcome the statement of the Minister for Finance that he is keeping a close eye on developments in that regard.

It is being alleged that this is a political Budget and that it is perhaps geared for the local elections. I say that it is not a political Budget, that it is merely a good Budget. It shows up the poor case made by the Opposition against the Budget. It might be no harm if we did have political Budgets. I know of some councils which are controlled by Fine Gael and which have failed miserably to live up to their responsibilities, particularly as regards housing.

In Killarney Urban District Council, which is controlled by Fine Gael, 12 houses were built in ten years in a town with an increasing population, with a growing tourist industry and with three major factories. This council had the audacity to blame the Government for their failure to live up to their obligations and responsibilities. Then, when they failed to get away with that, they proceeded to lay the blame on Kerry County Council and stated that the county council were not prepared to acquire compulsorily land for housing in the county health district adjacent to the town of Killarney. This would be useful to them because it would save them the trouble of providing houses. They also said they had taken steps to acquire land compulsorily within the urban area. It is quite clear, from a reply I received from the Minister for Local Government to a question I asked last week, that no proposal came up to the Minister for Local Government to confirm a compulsory purchase order for the provision of housing there. It is just about time the public got away from Fine Gael control in local councils.

I shall conclude by saying that I believe that this is a very good Budget, a popular Budget. It reveals the progressive thinking of the Government. It fully justifies the confidence of the electors of Waterford and South Kerry recently.

Notwithstanding the fact that we have been obliged to suffer in recent weeks——

Acting Chairman

I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, Deputy Davern, offered and the Chair did not see him. It would have been the turn of Labour or Fianna Fáil.

I shall give way to Deputy Ryan.

Acting Chairman

As the Parliamentary Secretary gives way, the Chair calls upon Deputy Ryan.

Let us get rid of Deputy Ryan. Let us get him over and done with.

Notwithstanding the fact that we have been obliged to suffer in recent weeks from an overdose of statistics and economic balderdash, I am obliged to Deputy J. O'Leary for drawing attention to the building problem because some interesting statistics were given today. In the course of a reply by the Minister for Local Government came these interesting statistics showing us what is happening in two county councils where Fianna Fáil have an overall majority. In Kerry County Council, we find that——

Acting Chairman

I do not wish to interrupt the Deputy but I did give Deputy J. O'Leary a certain latitude in view of the fact that it was his maiden speech. We cannot go into details of Estimates on the Budget debate. Housing would be much more appropriate on the Estimate for the Department of Local Government. However, the Deputy may refer to it.

I appreciate that. We have been given an overdose of statistics in recent weeks which nobody could possibly digest or comprehend. I have a desire to quote only about half a dozen statistics for the benefit of Deputy J. O'Leary. I crave the indulgence of the Chair: this is my maiden speech on the Budget from the Front Bench of the Opposition. For the benefit of Deputy J. O'Leary and so that he may concern himself in his conscience, if such he has left, with the figures of housing in two county councils in which Fianna Fáil have an overall majority, I put the following information on record. In Kerry County Council, about which I presume he would know something, the number of houses built last year was only 108 and in no year since the last year in which Fine Gael were in Government have they been able to equal the number of houses which we obliged them to build and which we saw to it every local authority built when we were in power.

When was that?

Fundamentally, it is the Government who either approve or do not approve of plans. It is the Government who set the pace. It is the Government who can abolish the county council which fails to do its task. If the county councils are responsible for the total failure in relation to housing in the past decade, as the Minister for Local Government alleges, why has he not abolished the lot of them?

Let us go from Kerry along the western seaboard, in which Ministers pretend to be interested. In County Galway, on whose council Fianna Fáil have a majority, and with Fianna Fáil control over the council, they built only 30 houses last year as against 264 in the last year Fine Gael were in power. In the year before, they excelled themselves entirely because, in all of the County of Galway, they built one local authority house. Even allowing for all the emigration which Fianna Fáil have hastened and facilitated, even allowing for all the safety valves that have been opened, we know that, in the county of Galway —because they are there for anyone to see—there are some things which are like relics of the eighteenth century, mud cabins with weeds growing from the roof. The only sign of life comes from a hole which might pass as a chimney. To meet the housing needs of those unfortunate people, the Fianna Fáil county council and Government could build in one year one house. Nor is that the whole story.

In Dublin city, where today there are 10,000 families applying to Dublin Corporation for houses, we built last year only 1,141 to meet that demand. At the present rate, it will take ten years to meet the existing applicants, without making any provision for all the families that will come into being in the meanwhile, for all the people who will be evicted from houses by the Fianna Fáil so-called developers and for all the people who are going to crowd into this area in the next 18 years, if we are to believe some more of the dose of statistics we got from another source, the Wright Report, which the Government saw fit to have printed in Britain on British paper at a time when they were telling the rest of us to be Irish and buy Irish quality goods.

It was not printed by the Government.

We have printers here printing banknotes and stamps for countries right across the world. Yet we have the Government paying a foreign expert to come over here to write more of this statistical balderdash and to have it printed at our expense in Britain.

It is not true.

It is time we had the last of this hypocrisy with a capital "H", the last of the Haughey hypocrisy, or, if you want to make it really hypocrisy, the "Mahockey" hypocrisy. That is all we had yesterday and that is all we are likely to get in the course of this debate from the Government benches. Leaving aside all this sales talk from "Mahockey" and his associates, this year's Budget amounts to the payment of conscience money. That is all.

Is the Deputy referring to me in those terms, Sir?

Acting Chairman

I take it the Deputy is not referring to the Minister?

If the Minister does not know his own name in Irish——

Acting Chairman

The Deputy should not refer to the Minister as such. He should refer to him as Minister for Finance.

I am referring to the sales talk——

Acting Chairman

When referring to the Minister, the Deputy must refer to him as such.

I am prepared to refer to the Minister as such, to isolate the Minister as such from the kind of sales talk we are given by the Fianna Fáil propaganda machine. It reflects on the dignity of the House to have that type of propaganda brought in here, by whomsoever it should be brought. Yesterday's Speech stripped of its verbiage, amounted to no more than a declaration and payment of conscience money.

You are a reflection on the dignity of this House: you are only a "gutty".

The vocabulary to which the Minister has access and is familiar with is beyond me. Therefore, I have not the ability to assess whether his remark is parliamentary or otherwise. I suspect it is not. The situation last year was that our unfortunate old age pensioners and other social welfare beneficiaries were deliberately led to believe they were to get an increase of 5/- in their pensions. Is there any old age pensioner who thought otherwise? Not one. But they found themselves deprived of this if they were believed to have as much as one penny beyond what was paid to them in a pension. Even if they could not be proved to be receiving a cash benefit, if they happened to have as much as a bundle of rags in the kitchen corner, that was regarded as ground for disqualifying them from getting the 5/- a week.

These unfortunate people have lived in great hopes that the money which should have been paid to them years ago would, in the long run, be paid. So it was that yesterday we had the declaration of intent to pay these unfortunate people their conscience money as from next August, if they should survive until then. There is an obligation on people to pay money to the estate of deceased persons when it is due. Even though many of these old age pensioners will go to their eternal reward in the meanwhile, there is a clear obligation on the Minister to pay to the next of kin this 5/-, which should be paid forthwith.

In addition to this conscience money Budget we have some benefits paid to a small fringe of our people. This indicates to me that the Minister is overconcerned with a small fringe of our population but does not understand the real problems facing tens of thousands of our working families, where the income is from £8 or £10 to £16 a week, where the people are lucky if they see butter on a Sunday, where they have meat but one day per week. Oh, there are many people in the drawing rooms and lounges of the wealthy houses who do not know, not how the other half lives, but how four-fifths of the people live-living from hand to mouth, depending on the children's allowances at the end of the month to pay the rent and, if they will stretch far enough, to pay the ESB bill.

We are exhorted to exercise restraint in wage claims: the people earning £8, £10, or £14 a week are exhorted not to look for any more. But the people who exhort them through deliberate Government action, have seen to it that these people have in the last year or so to pay at least £1 a week extra for the necessaries of life. As a result of a direction by the Minister for Local Government and the Minister for Finance, the rents of local authority houses have been jacked up. For many workingclass families in this city, in which half the people now live in local authority houses, this has meant an increase in weekly rents of 6¾ or more. Since the last round of wage increases these people have been obliged to pay, if they are lucky, on average from 4/strain to 6/- extra a week in bus fares. The recent increases in the price of the staff of life, bread, means for many working families an increase in weekly expenditure of 5/-. That is about 15/- out of every wage packet already accounted for. There is nothing in this Budget, good, bad or indifferent, in relief of any person who finds the weekly demands on his pay packet unbearable.

The Budget shows a concern—and, I think, a fair one—for people in relation to their medical expenses. Accordingly, there is a certain allowance to be given if their medical expenses are above £50 and if they are paying tax. Certain reliefs are also being given to families with children under 11 years of age. It strikes me as a rather weird approach to the problem of relieving families to say we are giving you relief of £15 for every child under 11 but in respect of every child over 11, who costs more to feed, clothe and educate, who costs more in innumerable ways, you will get nothing.

They already have more.

It seems a weird approach to life to be giving this relief for the younger members of the family. For a baby crying in the cradle, there is to be £15 a year relief, but for a child who has to have his bus fares paid to and from school, who has to be clothed and kept in pocket money and have money for many other purposes, there is nothing by way of relief. That is weird and strange, but we are used to it from Fianna Fáil.

It is not.

We would not expect the Minister to recognise it as weird because his approaches are weird in many respects. I can understand his difficulty.

Why twist the facts? You are only a bunch of twisters.

It strikes us as not being a step in the right direction.

(Interruptions.)

There are very many families in the categories I have mentioned.

There is no advantage in interrupting. I would ask Deputies to allow the speaker to proceed without interruptions.

And the Minister.

I ask everybody in the House; I am speaking to the House without any distinction.

I doubt, Sir—if it is any consolation to you—whether they will be able to interrupt me, no matter how loudly they shout. There is no relief for any family which is not paying tax. Although we know that the personal allowances, family allowances, children's income tax allowances and dependent relative allowances are inadequate, it is still true to say that those who are not paying tax at all are worse off than those who are. But there is no relief whatsoever for the families about which I am talking, for the wageearner who has £12 or £14 a week and is now called upon to pay 6/- extra for rent, 4/- extra for bus fares and 5/- extra for bread, not to talk about the price of milk and several other commodities.

If there is ever to be in this country a just society, if there is ever to be an equal distribution of whatever wealth or poverty we have, then it ought to be on the basis of helping poorer sections of the community. You do not do that by giving reliefs to the taxpayers but by giving it to those who are so poor that they are not paying tax at all.

We are not displeased that our voices have at last been heard and that an arrangement is to be worked out to allow old age pensioners, during the valley period, to travel on public transport free of charge, but one would think that it was going to cost CIE some money to provide this service for the old age pensioners. Are we to have an assessment made of the wear and tear of the seats occupied in buses and trains by old age pensioners during the valley periods, or of the wear and tear as a result of the marginally increased bus stoppages which may take place if only an old age pensioner is getting on or off a public service vehicle? That is the only increased cost which CIE will have to bear. I venture to say that the cost of measuring the marginal wear and tear involved there would be far greater than that of the wear and tear in question.

This is not a subsidy to the old age pensioners. It is a concealed subsidy to CIE, because this is money that CIE would not get otherwise, and it is something the old age pensioners need not say "Thank you" for at all, but Mr. Frank Lemass and his friends in CIE can say: "Thank you for this hidden gift," because that is what it is, a subsidy to CIE. If CIE needs a subsidy, let the Minister come to the House and say why he needs a subsidy and ask for it, but to act in this shabby way, trying to get a little bit of passing vulgar popularity for doing it, is somewhat disreputable.

The provision for the old age pensioners in relation to electricity again shows a lack of knowledge of how many old age pensioners live. Certainly in this city I think it is true to say that most of the old age pensioners cook by gas and if they do not cook by gas, they may try to boil a kettle or pot over the bag of "welfare" turf. Very few old age pensioners in the city of Dublin and, I suspect, in other urban centres where there is gas, cook by electricity. It seems to me only fair that if we are to provide something by way of relief of the cost of lighting and fuel for old people, it should not be confined to the State body, the ESB, but should also be given to the public gas companies in our cities and towns. Otherwise, the old age pensioners anxious to get some relief will be obliged to change over from gas to electricity and pay the capital cost of an electric cooker in the process.

I suspect that the Minister just did not think of that; I suspect his advisers did not think of that. I suspect that those who have been turning out the economic statistics and all the economic phraseology we have had poured out to us in recent weeks just did not think of that. These are the things that affect individuals and it is only when you understand the problems of individuals and of individual families that you know the kind of assistance they need.

In this city last year, there were nearly 2,000,000 penny dinners or free dinners, handed out. That is a statistic that is not to be found in the green, red and white coloured books issued by the Central Statistics Office and the Department of Finance. Why are these meals given? They are given because we have in our society tens of thousands of people who are on the border of starvation. It is time our people stopped feeling that everything was right in this land and that our obligations were only to people in poorer lands abroad. We are not for one moment making light of the needs of the world, but it is not fulfilling one's duty correctly to ignore one's neighbour, to pretend that he does not exist or to be ignorant about how he lives, and I fear there are in our community many people who are ignorant of how four-fifths of our people live.

The small relief to be given in respect of the electricity for light and power is less than the turnover tax which an old age pensioner has to pay for food, and it would have been far more to the point if the Minister had abolished the turnover tax on food and the necessaries of life. That would have been a worthwhile achievement and that would have given the old age pensioner far greater relief than this extremely costly scheme which he is going to provide in relation to electricity supply for old age pensioners.

At the moment we have a system of inspectors by the score, with Revenue Commissioners and employees by the hundreds, I suppose, collecting the turnover tax from, amongst others, old age pensioners, widows and blind and other social welfare beneficiaries. Now the State, which is taking more from those pensioners than the annual cost of electricity, is going to have some more inspectors on the Government side and more inspectors on the ESB side working out the system of doling back some of the money which has been taken from those pensioners in food. Is there no end to the operation to Parkinson's Law? To replace Nelson in O'Connell Street, we should now erect a monument to Parkinson because he is having a field day here. It is daft in the extreme that, when we are supposed to have control over our own affairs, we go through this rigmarole of taking tax from old age pensioners on the necessaries of life and then giving some of it back again so that they can pay their electricity bills. For that we are supposed to say: "Thank you." It seems to me quite crazy, incapable of any reasonable interpretation.

I began by quoting some building statistics. That was for the benefit of Deputy J. O'Leary while the point was still hot, he having concluded on it.

It was Deputy O'Leary won the South Kerry by-election.

It just shows that sometimes the truth does not pay.

Remember he won South Kerry by-election.

People who test everything by political success, and nothing else, have very low values. Thank God, there are in this country, and always will be, people who regard political success as secondary. A far more important test—it is the one with which we would concern ourselves— is the number of people in comfortable circumstances against the number in dire straits because of lack of money, food, clothing or shelter. Under Fianna Fáil, we have apparently forgotten that a man has a natural right to shelter. Mark you, I think they still recognise that he has a natural right to life and food. Shelter is just as essential to a decent and full life as are food and clothing. Yet we have in our society tens of thousands who have not got housing and have no reasonable prospect of getting housing for a number of years to come. Some may be near the point of getting housing a few years hence, but, at that point, they will go back down again on the waiting list because their children will have grown up and they will not have the numbers to qualify.

We are told we may not deal with statistics of housing, giving the number of houses which have or have not been built one year out and one year in; but we can look at another all important figure, namely, the percentage. Last year, at a time when the number of houses required to be built was not less than 150,000, we had a reduction of five per cent in building. That is not the whole story. A not inconsiderable proportion of the building which did take place was what I regard as non-essential building, the erection of offices to enable Parkinson to operate with greater speed and efficiency, non-essential building to improve the comfort of people who are not in what could be regarded as difficult working conditions. The kind of building we regard as of paramount importance is the building of homes for our people. In Britain recently people were shocked by a programme on television called "Cathy Come Home". The conditions depicted shocked many people in that much better-off society. They were shocked at the appalling housing conditions in which many people live. The housing conditions there depicted are no worse than those which tens of thousands have to tolerate in this country.

Some years ago Telefís Éireann had a 15 or 20 minutes programme on housing conditions. That shocked several people to such an extent that some of them gave it as their opinion that such films should not be shown on television. We will have to stop pretending these problems do not exist. These problems should be portrayed. We should all be aware of them. They are there, and it is only when we develop, as a community, a proper social conscience that the right steps will be taken to remedy the situation. As the Leader of the Opposition said today, the Government may boast all they like that they are paying out more money for housing, but they ought to complete the boast: they are paying more money for fewer houses because fewer are being built. It is not the amount of money that matters; it is the number of homes and the number of families that are housed in decent conditions, that do. So long as we do not approach the problem in the proper way, so long will we continue to regard half those on the housing waiting list as not in urgent need of rehousing.

I can give a case to illustrate what is not regarded as urgent. It is the case of a widow with three children, living in a very comfortable Dublin suburb, but in a derelict cottage, the roof sagging in the middle and covered with moss, a building so decrepit that, when she applied for a house improvement grant, she was denied the grant on the ground that the house was not worth saving. She is forced to cook, wash, live and sleep in one room because the second room is uninhabitable. In the room in which she sleeps she is obliged to spread across her bed and the bed of her children plastic sheets at night; she is obliged to string up a Health Robinson affair across the ceiling——

We will string the Deputy up.

——of pipes and plastic sheets to catch the rainwater and take it out through the window. The official designation of this woman's housing need is "Not in urgent need of rehousing." She is probably reflected in the statistics as a family of four in two rooms, not in urgent need of housing, and the city medical officer, not because his heart is not full of compassion for her plight but because of the dictation by the Custom House and the Fianna Fáil Government, is unable to give that woman a certificate to say that she is in need of housing. Because some of us honestly believe these matters should be brought home in this sovereign Parliament, there are those who would string us up for daring to air them. That is the kind of thing that happens in every reactionary Government; when people with consciences try to publicise real misery, it is said immediately that they are only fit to be strung up for daring to open their mouths. I could keep the House engaged for months with similar pitiable stories but you, Sir, would not allow me or, rather, I should say the rules of order; it is not you, Sir.

Does the Deputy blame me?

On the contrary; I have no wish to blame you. I give credit where credit is due. I abide by the rules and I expect others to do likewise.

I am aware of another family living in a basement seven feet below street level. This is in the area the music halls and the comic papers have for years spoken of as "Rawthmines". This unfortunate family — husband, wife and three children — are condemned to live in the basement of a house so damp that a fungus grows on the floor as quickly as the housewife removes it. Again, this family is described in the official housing statistics as not requiring rehousing. They are listed as a family of five in two rooms. The toilet is no more than an area separated from the livingroom by two pieces of plywood. These are the housing problems which are being ignored because if any Government were concerned to relieve the housing problems, they would regard those people as entitled to a medical certificate and entitled to immediate rehousing.

What is wrong is that people go through the modern housing schemes around our city and compare them with what they saw 30 or 40 years ago or what they san see sometimes in some of the back streets of Dublin, the old tenements. They think that this is great, that the housing problem has been solved. What they do not know is that even as I speak here tonight there are hundreds of families in which the man and woman and the children have to eat, cook, wash and sleep in what we call the box-room, the room which, in the better off houses, is used only to store the luggage they use for continental holidays because there is no room to put a bed. We have families living in these rooms with their beds and their cots. Some are unable to put in sufficient beds and cots for their children because there is no room for them. The pram is used for children of three and four years of age for sleeping and for sitting while they are taking their meals because there is no room for them anywhere else. These are multiplied not by two figures but by three figures and our people are not aware of it because the facade of those houses does not show the terrible circumstances of the people within. In another day and age such families would have lived in a large room in a Georgian house, the much condemned Georgian houses, but they would have had more cubic feet per person than people can get in the modern housing estate.

We in Fine Gael are quite well aware that our people do not appreciate that there are so many people living in such appalling housing conditions or if they do know, they could not care less because they are all right themselves. Because the people are not aware of it, the Fianna Fáil Government remain in office, and that is the only reason. That should not cause them any glory or satisfaction. If it eases their conscience that people are not aware of these things or could not care about them, it is a sorry day but it is something over which we have no control

There are those people who do not know better who have been led by the Fianna Fáil propaganda to suggest in recent times that Fine Gael are not concerned with getting into power, that Fine Gael would much prefer to remain in Opposition. Here we see the nodding heads of the boys opposite just to show the origin of this balderdash. I do not know what it requires. Does it require that members of Fine Gael or the people who are looking for decent housing should pour petrol over themselves and set themselves on fire to show how strongly they feel about this?

Neither Deputy Ryan nor any member of the Fine Gael Party attended the housing estimates meeting of Dublin Corporation this year.

It seems until such time as there is such a sacrifice or an identifiable tragedy, no proper steps will be taken to meet the housing needs of our people.

We are told that there is not sufficient serviced land on which to build houses. No individual can provide the serviced land. Land, to be serviced, must be land that Government concerns itself with acquiring for the public benefit. It is land in relation to which the Government must provide the money so that the necessary water and sewerage can be provided. It is no answer today to say in relation to housing problems; "We have not got the sites." The present Administration have been in power for ten disappointing years, ten years in which to provide the sites, ten years in which to do something about providing the money to provide water and sewerage and there is not even in this Budget at the end of ten years, one farthing to provide the necessary sites for all the houses that are to be built. What do they do to ease their conscience? They employ a foreign professor to come over here and have a few looks around and rush back to Liverpool to provide beautifully coloured maps and a lovely report printed in England on English paper. That is the solution of the housing needs. It is absolutely crazy. Why our people tolerate this is difficult to understand. One can only accept that they do not know, do not understand the problems and have been sadly misled.

For many years, we in Fine Gael have made clear that we believe our health services are grossly inadequate. We believe that the contention in the Government's White Paper that people in what they call the middle-income group do not suffer any hardship in meeting medical bills is an assumption which is groundless. We believe the Government themselves have now acknowledged that in the Budget, but again it is done in such strange terms, an admission given in the middle of the jungle of tax law and therefore not readily understood, but an admission none-the-less. By giving the relief they have given to people who are paying tax and who have medical bills in excess of £50 and under £300 a year, they acknowledge that there is hardship on people who have not got medical cards in meeting their medical bills. However, this is a relief which has been given to the taxpayer who is paying a fair amount of tax and who, on that account, one can safely assume, is somewhat better off than those who are not paying tax.

At present in Dublin city and county we have something less than 16 per cent of the population with medical cards. The remainder have to pay for all home medical services. The result is that we have hundreds of thousands of families denying themselves medical attention, postponing calling in the family doctor, because they fear that the cost of doing so is beyond their ability to pay. We have these families, of which there are hundreds of thousands also, not completing the course of drugs and prescriptions the doctor prescribes for them because they cannot afford the cost. It is no answer to say that, provided they can prove hardship after the event, they may get some assistance from the local authority. Few people know this.

We are conscious of the fact that the present rotten, crumbling, inefficient health service is costing more. We are conscious of the fact that it is going to cost another £4½ million next year. We are equally conscious that we could save money on the health services if we brought in a proper scheme of health insurance so that people could call upon a doctor of choice and could get drugs and medicines at half-price. That could be done at a cost similar to the increase this year. There would be this difference, however. There would be a saving equal to the additional cost of providing a proper home medical service. I can appreciate that the details of a health scheme are not proper in detail on a Budget debate but it is very important for us to emphasise that when there was a surplus, nothing was done to provide a health service which every other country in this part of the world has, bar Finland.

I fail to see how you can call a Budget progressive or good, if it leaves us as backward as the Laplanders in relation to our health services, and this is what we are doing. This is an indication to me that the Government are prepared to recognise that there is hardship, that as between the 16 per cent who have medical cards and those who are paying tax, there is hardship. They could have done something about that or could have removed some part of it.

State pensioners who retired prior to January, 1964, are to be given a 12 per cent increase. This does not yet overtake the amount those people should get to bring them up to a figure equal to what is paid to pensioners who retired since then. This 12 per cent is to be paid to pensioners who are below the level of what has obtained from January, 1964, onwards. Many of them will now receive a 12 per cent increase in their pension but they will receive it on pensions which are probably running 30 or 40 per cent below par. The amount will not relieve the distress of these people in the autumn of their lives. It will all depend on lady luck whether they will get any of this money at all; it depends on whether they can breathe until August next. The increase is payable only from August onwards and is not retrospective. This is deplorable, and I hope we will soon have a Minister for Finance who will do the right thing by State and public pensioners, that is, to relate their pensions to what is now being paid to serving public servants and not to what was paid to them on the date they retired.

The State regards these pensions as postponed payments and, that being so, there is an obligation on the State to ensure that when postponed pay is paid out, it has some relation to the value of money on the day on which it was taken from them. This is going to cost money in any one year but until such time as that sensible step is taken, we cannot say that we are treating our public service pensioners properly.

We are told by the Minister that there is to be an increase of 1d per gallon in the price of milk from 1st May. This will also mean an increase in the price of butter of 2½d per lb. It may be that the Minister has provided, in the figures he has given, an indication of how he is going to pay this money. I understand this is to be an Exchequer payment.

I said in my speech that it was going to be paid in full by the Exchequer.

That was said on 11th-12th April, 1967. I warn the Minister that if there is any increase to the consumer, particularly to people who only get a limited pay packet, we shall call him to account for it. We know the Minister has made the calculation of £4 million for errors of estimation. That could also be used to enable him later on in the year to impose an increase in the price of milk and butter to pay for this increase. Nobody criticises the small reliefs given to the farming community. They deserve anything they have got and a great deal more. Three million pounds of the money they are getting is due to them. They lost that amount last year and this £3 million is only a payment of conscience money by the Government for money taken from them. The other £2 million could not be regarded as being generous.

When we were in office with our colleagues of the Labour Party, we made no apology for subsidising the necessaries of life. We believed it was proper to subsidise the necessaries of life and we believe it is the reasonable thing to do when the Government are calling for wage restraint, when the Government are taking steps to bring in restrictive measures and to penalise anybody who works towards an increase in his wages. We believe there is an obligation on the Government to maintain prices and we are sorry that the Government did not make provision in the Budget to subsidise some of the necessaries of life as an indication of their intent to hold the prices of the necessaries of life at the existing figures.

That would not compensate people who have lost so much over the past 18 months through the increase in the cost of living but it would be an indication that the Government are prepared to do something about an incomes policy. You cannot have an incomes policy without price restraint and it is immoral to restrain wages and salaries without restraining other incomes. It is not incumbent on certain sections of the community, the less well-off sections, to make sacrifices unless the Minister ensures that everybody makes a sacrifice according to his status and wealth.

There is nothing in this Budget for people in the urban areas and we are entitled to complain about that. In the urban areas, the cost of living is much higher than it is in the less sophisticated societies but there is no relief in the Budget for people in the urban areas. There may be an explanation for this. A Party who measure everything according to their own satisfaction are unlikely to think kindly of the urban areas that walloped them in the last Presidential election. They are getting their own back now.

We took a seat from you in Dublin in the last election.

For every one you took, we will take back three. The reason the Government have done nothing for the people in the urban areas is that they know that they have lost these people and are not going to get them back. That is the reason the Government are making no effort to win them back. The situation is that the present administration got into power on a slogan that employment was the test. That was the test by which they wished the people to judge the outgoing Government. Applying that test now, we find that they have reduced the number in employment by 50,000 when they promised an increase of 100,000, so that they are now 150,000 behind their target.

In the past five years, the so-called Golden Years, we had 14,500 fewer employed. We are now well off course in relation to the number we are supposed to have employed by 1970. It is significant that amidst the library of gobbledegook passed out to us in recent weeks, we have not yet had any comment or explanation about the failures in the Second Programme for Economic Expansion. The simple fact is that you do not need expert committees to judge your failures and explain them away. The real reason is that the Government have applied wrong policies ever since they got into power. At last Ministers have come to accept the Fine Gael approach to development. They now accept—and it was accepted by the Minister yesterday— ten years too late, that you cannot have economic development in isolation, that you cannot have financial progress in isolation, that you cannot divorce economic prosperity from social welfare, and that a country which postpones improvements in housing, schooling, health services and in the various other humane services, is not making progress but is in fact building up untold trouble for itself. It gets an unbalanced economy and that is what we have at present.

The minor attempts that have been made to provide something in the form of capital for certain educational purposes is capital of a very perishable kind. I understand that we now have over 700 pre-fabs for primary schools. We are not confining this form of doubtful capital equipment to primary schools; we are also providing Garda stations in pre-fabs. What is this building up? This is building up huge arrears of capital investment which will have to be met in 15 to 20 years time. Of course, I realise that even the bloated ambitions of the Fianna Fáil Party do not extend to remaining in power all that time. They realise they will be found out by then and will be very far removed from power. It will be left to another administration to replace the 20th century hovels, the wooden huts now being erected, and being described as capital expenditure, for schools and Garda stations.

Then we hear about town planning. Daily I pass through Rathmines, which was built in all its glory without all the town planning paraphernalia and regulations that are now supposed to be applied. In that well-built suburb, you find no pre-fabs, no derelict buildings, no sign of bad planning other than a new wooden hut that has been erected for a Garda station. This is an indication of an avoidance of duty on the part of the Government. Instead of building for Rathmines what it badly needs, a proper Garda station, the Garda are provided with a wooden hut in which to carry out their growing duties in that important suburb.

That, to my mind, is an indication of a Government with very confused ideas. In that suburb, too, and in other parts of Dublin, not alone are the people being called upon to pay increased rates but they also have the greatest increase in valuation ever imposed. It is clear from the trend of events that a direction has been issued by the Department of Finance and by the Department of Local Government that properties in many areas in Dublin are to be increased in valuation. The result is that many people, without having their property inspected by anybody from the Rates Department of the corporation, or from the Valuation Office, have had their rateable valuation increased by as much as 50 per cent or 60 per cent, and in many cases, more.

There are many people who are going hungry in this city today in order to pay their rates; there are many people going without proper clothing in order to pay their rates; there are many people who deny themselves necessary medical treatment in order to pay their rates. Some of these people, in order to try to meet the crippling cost of rates, and to try to keep pace with the cost of living while their own pensions and other incomes depreciate, have sublet part of their houses at reasonable rents. As a result of a direction of the Fianna Fáil Government, they are to be milked for additional rates, not only for the 6/- increase which Dublin Corporation had no option but to impose in order to meet increased costs, but in increased valuation. There are many cases in which these increased valuations in Dublin will mean as much as 15/- extra per week. Take this 15/- extra per week for rates, your 5/- extra for bread and 4/- extra for bus fares, and you get some ideas of the pressures and anxieties of these people which drive them to call for an improvement in their wages and incomes.

I do not think our people are by nature selfish. I do not think there are many sections of our community whose sole desire is to better themselves and be indifferent to the welfare of others. I have met, and I am sure many other Deputies have met, people from all strata in our society who were concerned that they found themselves once again in a situation in which their last increase had been whittled away and they were concerned that they were forced again to look for more money to bring themselves to the level at which they previously were. In the main, that is the beginning of all wage demands. The improvement in living standards over the years has been insignificant compared with the pressures which have to be applied in order to maintain living standards as they were. That is particularly so under the present administration.

I was interested to read recently a comment from a former Fianna Fáil Minister for Finance, a man who held office for many years and who is mainly responsible for the present dangerous financial policies of the Fianna Fáil administration, Dr. Ryan, now Senator Ryan. He poured scorn on the first Cosgrave Government because it was concerned with the cost of government, because it was concerned with taxation and with maintaining money values.

The Deputy's Government refused to build houses because of the cost.

It is interesting that the Government in question multiplied the number of houses built in their ten years by 28, compared with the number of houses built in the previous ten years. It is extremely interesting if one does not confine oneself to the statistics published, but studies the whole problem. The figure which I quoted did not come from any official source but from a very reliable source, an OECD publication. It is also to be found in a most interesting paper published by the Institute of Public Administration. This shows that the most rapid increase in building in our history was during the first years of the State. Not nearly enough houses were built, of course, and not as many as might have been built if a great deal of public money had not been wasted on the destruction of public and private property by the enemies of the State. These exercises in history are matters of interest to those who are concerned with the development of our nation, but they give no relief to a person looking for a house in 1967. I have no wish to proceed any further on that line.

I want to complain about the very poor approach made in relation to the social welfare sections. We do not regard the 5/- which is being given as nearly enough.

Nor do we.

If you do not regard it as enough, it is for you and you alone to increase it.

It is a lot better than what you gave.

We find it hard to be patient with the letter writers, of whom there are not a few in this country, who write and say that Members of the Dáil are to be blamed because pensions or benefits of one kind or another are not better. It is important that we should underline the fact that the Ceann Comhairle has a duty to perform in relation to amendments put down to the Finance Bill. Any amendment which comes from a Member of the House other than a Minister which would impose any additional charge on the Exchequer is ruled out of order. No private Member of this House, not even a Government back bencher, has any power in our democracy such as it is, and under our rules of order such as they are, to do anything about improving pensions or benefits.

I hope the Deputy is not blaming the Chair.

No; I am talking about the rules of the House and the constitutional laws of the State which prevent any Member of the House other than a member of the Government from moving an amendment which would have the effect of giving any additional benefits to any section of the community.

(Interruptions.)

Fine Gael are concerned with developing the public conscience. Many people say that the weakness of Fine Gael is that we are too far ahead, that we are too progressive, that we cannot bring the people with us, that we have not yet convinced the people——

That is the truest thing the Deputy ever said—that you cannot bring the people with you.

We are not concerned with whether or not we have yet converted the people to appreciate what we are preaching about the need for an immense social reform and, indeed a social revolution. We will continue to preach it because we see year in and year out an unwilling Administration takinfi a little here and pretending to give a little there. We can only hope that the people will appreciate who are the real authors of the improvements. They just get these marginal reliefs which are not nearly sufficient to provide them with an adequate livelihood.

The Government have endeavoured to take credit for extending the period for the payment of unemployment benefit from six to 12 months. I am surprised to realise from my reading of the published reports of the Budget that it has not yet been driven home to the people that a larger proportion than heretofore of this improvement will have to be paid for by the people who pay insurance. We are told by the Minister that slightly more than two-thirds of the cost of the rate increase of the insurance contribution will be paid by the people who are making the contribution. That means that the people who are paying the insurance at the present cost, the workers and employers who are paying 60 per cent of the cost, will be called upon to pay something in the region of 68 to 70 per cent. Not only have they to pay more for whatever reliefs or improvements that are to be given on the proportion now paid but they are also called upon to pay an additional ten per cent or thereabouts of the total cost of social insurance. The gentleman who got the applause yesterday was in fact getting it in large measure on a pretence because the major part of the increased cost is to be borne by the workers themselves.

It is also interesting to know that the reason for increasing the unemployment benefit period from six months to 12 months is the expectation of prolonged employment. That is the test we wanted to apply ten years ago. We have here a Budget which does a little here and a little there but overall does nothing for the economy, a Budget which is prepared to accept as a sine qua non of the economic conditions of the country that next year the unemployment figure will stay as it now is. It is now at 77,000. Do not worry about juggling statistics and economics which removed from the public mind 14,000 unemployed people last year by pretending they did not exist. Remember we have 77,000 unemployed on the basis of the calculations used in this country for 40 years and the Government do not intend to do anything next year to give any relief to those people. In fact, they accept the OECD report and the Department of Finance Report which suggest that possibly the trend will be the wrong way.

Perhaps one of the most sensitive barometers of economic activity is a Deputy's mailbox, his letterbox, the mail he gets. We have found over the past year or so a huge increase in the number of constituents who are looking for employment and in the number of constituents who are cut off from unemployment benefit and are unable to get unemployment assistance. That figure has been multiplied since last year and shows no sign of relaxing. There is nothing, simply nothing, in this Budget to give those people any hope whatsoever that their needs will be attended to. That is why, above all else, we say this Budget is a failure. That is why we protested yesterday by voting as we did. We were quite well aware, having heard these clever bucks in the past 40 years, that they would misrepresent what we did but we knew, likewise, that, if we did not vote against the Budget, they would also misinterpret it.

We are here to protest, to oppose, to criticise and to indicate to the people the points on which we disagree with the Government. We say that, when a Government are already beyond the target which they themselves fixed for taxation three years hence, the Opposition have a duty to protest that the Government have exceeded the target. They are already far beyond the target of 1967 and they are beyond the target of 1970. The only way left open to us to protest against that and to pinpoint that failure is to protest against the increase in the price of the workingman's pint. God knows, there is not much left to him now. It would have been a small consolation to him to leave even that much to him. I think most old age pensioners can spare little for what amenities or luxuries this life can afford, other than the pint. They still make the sacrifice. There are many to be seen in the snugs and pubs in this town drinking their pint. But, lo and behold, that is the commodity that is picked on to provide money for other marginal reliefs for the executives——

Dry martinis, no pints.

I have yet to see a young executive drinking a pint.

A cocktail.

They are leaving the spirits, which are relieved. If the Government had taxed the spirits, we should not have protested. We do not see that there is any tax upon the cocktails, the dry martinis. These have not been increased. We have to concern ourselves with the young executives who, we are led to believe, are flying from the country.

Mohair socials.

Lord bless us and save us, they must be hairy executives in Taca. These were the young executives and I suspect they are. Does the Minister seriously contend that there is a brain drain from this country from among the young executives, from the operators of Parkinson's Law? Does he seriously contend that that is so? Or is it because he says some members of Fine Gael say it that Fianna Fáil accept it? We are most impressed that they should do so. I know there is no section of the community any Government would not like to relieve of tax burden but we suspect very much a Government who do so little for the poor man, for the man who is so poor that he does not pay tax, but who find it necessary to give relief to the young executives—not, mind you, to the wealthy executives, whoever they may be. I do not know what the Minister hopes to get from them but is is quite clear that this little treat was given. It will be interesting to know—I think Deputy Corish was trying to get this information—just how much this will mean for any young executive. Just how much will it mean? Would it be £100 a year?

That is the price of a dinner.

You see, Sir, our people are not gullible. Our people can see through this fraud. This is the compensation for the young executives. People might wonder, betimes, who these people are who are prepared to buy their way and buy their influence and pay for protection, for political and social protection. It is not hard to find out. They may have been entertained recently at a function to which the gentleman of the Fourth Estate were not admitted but anybody may see them at hoolies in the Castle. Wherever the Taoiseach or a Government Minister is running a "do", a hooley, a what have you, a cocktail party, a reception with a capital "R", in the Castle, who are to be found at it but all the gauleiters of the Fianna Fáil Party? When the State very properly wanted to honour the men of 1916 who had sacrificed all when it seemed impossible to achieve the goal at which this country was aiming, namely, the goal of national independence, when our society and our State very properly wanted to honour these men and gave a reception in the Castle so that they might see, for the first time, the inside of the former headquarters of British Imperialism in Ireland——

There is nothing about that in the Budget. If the Deputy cannot relevantly speak to the Budget, I shall ask him to sit down.

There is money provided in the Taoiseach's Estimate for this purpose and the Deputy is entitled to discuss it.

Part of the cost of government is the cost of State receptions. With respect, we are entitled to say——

The Chair has pointed out that the Deputy must speak relevantly to the Budget. The Chair will take no advice from Deputy L'Estrange on how he should order anything in this House.

On a point of order, it is in the Taoiseach's Estimate and therefore Deputy Ryan is entitled to discuss it.

We are not discussing the Taoiseach's Estimate on the Budget, and if the Deputy does not accept that, he can leave the House.

Surely this debate has been so broad that it is not right to rule out Deputy Ryan on this point?

I think Deputy Ryan was referring to the Fianna Fáil Party fund, all right.

Receptions in the Castle do not arise on the Budget debate.

Fianna Fáil receptions, no, but State receptions, yes.

The majority of them had to be carried home from the State reception in the Castle.

Some of your compatriots were there, sínte fada siar. I tripped over some of your friends.

The Parliamentary Secretary should not have got so drunk and he would not have tripped over people.

I was not drunk but one of them had his legs stretched out.

Deputy Ryan, on the Budget.

The old heroes could not sit down because of the crowd of Fianna Fáil cumann members at the function. The old people there had to leave early because of the insufferable conditions and because the place was so crowded out with Fianna Fáil subscribers who were brought along— the new "Castle hacks" of the 20th century who are being provided for in the marginal reliefs being given to the executives, to the people who pay surtax. I have no doubt they will be rewarded again by invitations to places which, according to the ruling of the Chair, I am not permitted to mention. I am satisfied they will be entertained at public expense, if not there, elsewhere. We, in Fine Gael, do not think this is good enough and another reason why we voted against the penny on the pint was so that it would not be used for the entertainment elsewhere of people buying their way, the new "Castle hacks".

We did not finance the Presidential election out of the tenants' funds.

These problems embarrass the Government. They prefer these things not to be noticed. If the people of Dublin and Ireland want to know who is behind the Government, it will not cost them a penny to see. They just have to stand at the City Hall at the corner of Parliament Street any time there is a "do" on at the Castle.

It is not so long since the leader of the Fianna Fáil Party said taxation had reached the limit in this country and that it could not afford to go any further. I believe that was 11 or 12 years ago. It is interesting to note that in the past five years the figure has practically doubled. That may be no more than a reflection of the gross inflation taking place under the present administration, who scorned the first Cosgrave Government because they were concerned with endeavouring to keep down the cost of government.

These overall figures are meaningless unless you appreciate the value of money. Let us look at it in the terms of their own gobbledegook, what they call the current Government expenditure as a percentage of GNP. For those who do not know by now, that means Gross National Product.

Deputy Dowling thought it was another fund raising organisation.

This has increased from 21.1 per cent in 1961-62 to 21.7 per cent in 1962-63, to 22.5 per cent in 1963-64, to 23.2 per cent in 1964-65, to 24.4 per cent in 1965-66, to 25.5 per cent in 1966-67 and in 1967-68 to 28 per cent. This means that, at a time when the Government are reducing their own contributions to the Social Insurance Fund, notwithstanding the fact that they are passing part of the social welfare buck on to the workers and employers, they are taking another chunk of 2½ per cent as the Government's share of the GNP.

If the Government were spending the money wisely or better than anybody else, one might say it was excusable, but there are no signs that they are doing so. In fact, all the indications are that the economic trend is in the opposite direction. As Deputy Corish said, a balanced Budget is no proof of a sound economy. I believe this country was never in such a dangerous economic position. The indications are that we are in for a further period of recession and all the brave talk yesterday about reflation indicates that this is another economic term they do not really understand. We can expect a new commission to be established about five years hence to explain what they meant by reflation in 1967.

What we need here is a proper boost to our economy. By that I mean not just only a boost for exports. There are a large number of small family businesses which are on the verge of bankruptcy or liquidation. There is no assistance being provided by the Government: quite the reverse. These are small, traditional family businesses which have a stake in this land. if they make a profit, they spend the money in this land. These businesses have been run by people whose roots are in this land. But the people being encouraged to compete with these small businesses are foreign developers who, if they make profits—as they most certainly will and as they are doing—will take those profits out of this country and spend them abroad. This is profit which in many cases will not pay tax here.

It is time an end was put to the invasion of our economy by so many foreigners, particularly in the distributive traders. It is appalling to see the number of workers in the distributive trades dwindling at a catastrophic rate. Again and again the Government have been asked by the Fine Gael benches to restrict the invasion of foreigners into our distributive trades, but they have done nothing about it. It is not only the land of Ireland that belongs to the Irish people. The businesses and shops of Ireland and the welfare of Ireland belong to them also. There is just as much obligation on the Government to keep out those unnecessary and unwanted foreigners in the distributive trades. One is at a loss to understand why the Government have failed to take the necessary steps to protect our people.

We believe that the situation, bad and all as it is at the moment, is likely to get worse. Many of these concerns are part and parcel of huge British combines which manufacture their own foodstuffs and other articles. Under the various rules for import licences and tariffs we have at present, these people are unable at present to bring in in any significant quantity their own goods from their own factories or otherwise in Britain. But, as the free trade plan comes into operation and the various protections we have at the moment melt away, these concerns will reduce their rate of purchase from Irish factories and firms. There will be nothing to stop them bringing in their own goods from Britain and distributing them to the monopolised retail outlets they are developing. It will be too late to endeavour to control this after the damage has been done. Now is the time to control it. It would be quite easy to impose a significant stamp duty on these property developers, on these huge British supermarket firms and so on. I believe if a sufficient stamp duty were imposed, we would be able to keep these people out.

While on the question of stamp duties, we in Fine Gael wish to complain that this Government, while they have displayed anxiety to amend various tax laws in order to keep pace with Britain, have not yet done something Britain has long since done. We in Fine Gael do not advance as a reason why it should be done that it has been done in Britain, but we do advance as a reason for doing it the needs of the Irish people. I refer to stamp duty on houses. It is unforgivable that we extract three per cent stamp duty from anybody who goes to buy a house here. Why do it? Are those people engaged in anti-social expenditure? If they are buying their own house, they are relieving the community of the payment of subsidies and other expenses they might otherwise have to provide.

The continuation of this stamp duty is a blot on our society and a matter the Government should have done something about in a year in which there was some money available. The removal of the stamp duty on houses up to £4,000 would have cost less than the surplus which the Government had on last year's Budget. It would have been fully justifiable. It would have given the necessary impetus and encouragement to the building industry which is so badly needed. As I started on building, I shall conclude on it.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 13th April, 1967.
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