asked the Taoiseach if it is proposed to appoint a new member of the Government to deal with all matters relating to EEC; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Membership of EEC.
1.
The activities of the European Economic Community impinge on the responsibilities of many Ministers, and it would not be possible or desirable to assign all matters relating to the Community to any individual Minister. The question of designating a member of the Government to co-ordinate the negotiations for Ireland's entry to the Community is a different matter, which will be decided at the appropriate time.
2.
asked the Taoiseach whether as a result of the emphasis placed on associate status with the EEC for this country by the President of France in his recent discussions the Government will now explore this possibility.
While not accepting the implication in the Deputy's question, I must point out that our objective is full membership and that our application for such membership is at present receiving consideration by the Council of Ministers of the Communities. It is clearly not appropriate in the circumstances to be exploring alternative possibilities.
If the President of France at that meeting in fact issued an open invitation to the Taoiseach and asked him if he had ever considered the possibilities of associate membership and if the position is that at the moment there would be no objection on the part of the President of France to an application by us for associate membership, is the Taoiseach saying that we, in fact, are not considering this course?
In the first place, it is not for the President of France to issue invitations to any applicant country. The decision on membership will be taken by the Council of Ministers representing all the member countries of the community.
That is quite true, but the Taoiseach will accept that the President of France plays quite a large part in the application possibilities of any country and I think it is significant that the President of France said that he has no objection to this country seeking associate membership. In fact, he asked the Taoiseach whether he had explored fully the possibility of associate membership. If, therefore, the President of France, who is a significant member of the whole affair, issued an invitation to the Taoiseach to explore the possibility of associate membership and if at this moment, as the Taoiseach said yesterday, our possibilities of full membership are receding into the far distance, has the Taoiseach not considered taking up the invitation of the President of France?
I stated clearly after my meeting with the President of France that he referred to the suggestion made to the British that they might consider associate membership and asked me if we had ever considered that form of membership. I told him then, and I still adhere to this position, that our application is one for full membership and unless and until the negotiations on that application would seem to be delayed for a long time, we had not considered any alternative form of membership in the meantime. With regard to the suggestion of an interim arrangement, I said that could be considered at the appropriate time but only in the context of full membership.
The position is then that it is not, as the Taoiseach's predecessor said, full membership or nothing?
Yes, full membership is what we are going for.
If full membership is refused, the Taoiseach will then consider the possibility of association?
We have not considered the position if and when full membership is refused. It has not been refused and we have not considered an alternative.
So the Taoiseach's mind and the Government's mind is blank to the idea of association?
It is not blank at all. I have said before that the Government have been considering all aspects of our joining the EEC but at the moment our application is for full membership. That application is before the Council of Ministers. A decision has not been given on that application and unless a decision is made refusing our membership, then we have not yet, or will not until then, consider an alternative.
Can the Taoiseach say was this offer of President de Gaulle's rejected at the meeting of the Taoiseach with President de Gaulle or was it rejected in a subsequent statement issued by the Taoiseach?
I did not reject any offer because I did not get an offer. The President of France asked me if we had considered associate membership in the same fashion as his Ministers had suggested to Britain. I said we had not, but then it evolved in the course of our conversation that, in the event of the British application being delayed for a considerable time, he would support an interim arrangement.
With whom?
With the Community. I said we had not considered that because we would have to take into account our obligations under GATT and under the Free Trade Area Agreement and also our desire for playing a full part in the Community and that could only be realised as full members of the Community.
How could our obligations under GATT and under the Free Trade Area Agreement be any different in either form of membership? Surely what is applicable in respect of one is applicable in respect of both?
An interim arrangement with the Community would mean negotiation with GATT on tariff reductions. The tariff reductions arranged under GATT have to be extended to all member countries. On the other hand, we have arrangements with Britain whereby certain preferences for goods which we send to Britain oblige us to give reciprocal treatment to them. All those arrangements would have to be taken into account.
Question No. 3.
Is there as yet any clarification or agreement as to what the President said? And further, can I take it that the Government are considering two plans, one for full membership and the other for association?
I have said as clearly as my recollection goes, remembering that the conversation lasted over a full hour, what the President of France said to me and what he said in a subsequent speech, which has been published widely, at the luncheon which he gave to my party and to me. If that is capable of interpretation one way or another, it is not for me to say.
Will the Taoiseach tell us——
I was asked a question by the Deputy and I should be permitted to answer it. May I repeat again that we are negotiating on the basis of full membership? I have said three or four times in reply to supplementary questions that we are not considering associate membership at this stage.
The Taoiseach said that was his recollection of what he said and this was his interpretation.
Do not confuse the two. I have said as fully and as clearly as I can what the subject matter of the conversation I had was and what was said by the President of France. As far as interpretation goes, that refers to the speech the President made subsequently, which was issued in French to the world press. If that is capable of interpretation one way or another, that is a matter for the interpreters.
(Interruptions.)
I have allowed innumerable supplementaries on this question. I am calling Question No. 3. There are 125 questions on the Order Paper.
May I ask one supplementary?
I am calling Question No. 3.